Hangin’ & Sangin’: Ani DiFranco

From the Bluegrass Situation and WMOT Roots Radio, it’s Hangin’ & Sangin’ with your host, BGS editor Kelly McCartney. Every week Hangin’ & Sangin’ offers up casual conversation and acoustic performances by some of your favorite roots artists. From bluegrass to folk, country, blues, and Americana, we stand at the intersection of modern roots music and old time traditions bringing you roots culture — redefined.

With me today in the Writers’ Rooms at the Hutton … Ani DiFranco.

Hello!

Hello! So glad you’re here.

Nice to be here.

Your latest record, Binary … I want to get granular on some of the themes because you have recurring themes going on here. And I love your brain because your music makes me think and feel so much about the world around me. So let’s get into that.

Alright!

Connection with each other, with nature, with life in every possible manifestation… do you feel like advances in technology have helped or hindered all of that?

Yes. [Laughs]

[Laughs] Okay.

Yeah. I feel all of that and more. Yeah, see, this brings us right to my ongoing meditation of late in my life which is that everything is binary. And, by that, I mean not either/or. I mean both. Always. All the time. Everything is made of relationship. That’s my new way of looking at stuff. Ones and zeros … it brings us closer together. It increases our information. And, yet, it separates us and isolates us and makes us less conscious through that separation and isolation. So, it’s all happening.

Do you think it just enhances what was already there? So, like, if you’re, prone to connection, it enhances that; but if you’re someone who is prone to isolation, it enhances that. Potentially?

Possibly. Yeah. I don’t know. I’ll pontificate with you all day. Let’s go!

Yeah!

Seriously, who knows? I mean, it seems like we are being pushed to recognize that it does bring out something that is very dark, something that is latent, in terms of that disconnection — that sort of road rage that happens between two metal boxes that doesn’t happen between two faces.

When you’re up in someone’s countenance …

Conversing with their heart! BAM! [Laughs] Yeah. I think it has a propensity to draw that out of us. So I think there’s a danger in it. There really is. Of course. Anything that powerful of a tool is going to be dangerous.

Yeah. I’m assuming you’re familiar with Brené Brown’s work to a certain extent …

Yeah. Yeah.

That’s one of her ideas, that you can’t hate close up, so get close up with people.

Yeah. Get to know your neighbor who’s too loud.

If that’s what it takes.

Totally. Mr. Rogers. He rocked that stuff back in the day.

Which points to the premise of “Pacifist’s Lament”… which is, who among us is ready and willing to step fully onto the high road? You have to have a bigger vision and a lot of humility to know that winning at all costs isn’t winning at all. So, how do we get there?

Yeah. Yeah. This competitive advancement of the species. Yeah, maybe, to some degree. But, really, cooperating is how we succeed.

I guess that song, “Pacifist’s Lament,” comes right out of that moment of recognition when I’m sitting there watching the NRA lady say whatever the talking points are and I’m so full of anger that I just want to shout at her. Then I remember when that kid shot up that church in South Carolina and the families of the victims stood before him and spoke to him like a human being, said, “I forgive you.” They said just the most humbling solution to the world’s problems. They’re living and breathing and showing us the way. And I have so far to go, myself.

But I think, as a society, we’ve slipped so far from this idea. We can’t dismiss each other. We just can never give up on each other. We have to reach out and build bridges over even the most turbulent waters. So, I mean, it’s a daily struggle for me as much as anybody.

The idea in “Telepathic” of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, that sort of deep empathy of trying to imagine what burdens they’re carrying, what fears they’re facing … is that something you do?

Yeah. And you don’t have to think about it at all. You just feel it. You just feel it in a moment sometimes with people. All the distance that can lie between you and someone on the other side of the counter. All of the walls. All of the veils. I guess, yeah, connected to what we’re talking about, I just want it to all go away. I want us to all be family, but we can’t because of so much in society and history. It’s that searching around — and not even intentionally — just when you feel what someone else feels, it can be overwhelming.

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This Never Happens: A Conversation with F.J. McMahon

In June 2017, F.J. McMahon played his first show in a lifetime. He took the stage with the Boston psych-folk group Quilt as his backing band and ran through the nine songs on his lone album, 1969’s Spirit of the Golden Juice. Those songs had been collecting dust for nearly 50 years. “I had to go through the entire thing and re-learn everything — every chord, every lyric,” he says. To his surprise, and perhaps no one else’s, the songs sounded sturdy and strong, speaking as loudly in the 2010s as they did in the 1960s.

Fresh out of the Air Force, McMahon recorded Spirit of the Golden Juice in 1969 for Accent Records, a small L.A. label that had few ideas how to market a folk-rock singer/songwriter. No one heard it. No one cared. (The title, it should be noted, refers to whiskey, McMahon’s favored intoxicant at the time.) Decades later, it became a crate-digger’s treasure: one of those small-press releases that never finds an audience on its initial release and ends up at estate sales and dollar bins. Passed around from one vinyl collector to another, Spirit inspired an obsessiveness among fans who had no idea who F.J. McMahon was.

The renewed interest led to small reissues, but those pressings have become almost as rare as the original. That makes the new version by Anthology Recordings such a godsend to fans, new and old. “It’s very bizarre,” he says of his revived career. “The number of people I’ve run into, musicians and people in the music industry, they just look at me wide-eyed, shake their heads, and say this never happens. I don’t know what to make of it. It’s incredible.” 

When did you realize there was a cult built up around this album?

I didn’t realize that until I started reading a little thing here and a little thing there. I’m going, “Really? For real?” I knew something was going on around 2002, when a label called Wild Places issued a bootleg, and the guy who was running it told me a bunch of friends from around the world liked it. I had no idea. I stopped playing right around the end of 1974 although, in the ‘80s, there were a couple jam bands and rockabilly psychedelic bands that we got together for fun. We’d do open mic nights, stuff like that, but nothing serious.

When music didn’t work out as a career, what did you do instead?

I needed a job. Because I was a former hippie guitar player, I didn’t really have a trade. This was the mid ‘70s, and the hot thing was electronics and computers. That was what was making the world go round. Going to school would have been fine, but I knew it would take a long time. If you wanted to get the best education and do it quickly, you go to the Navy. You go to their schools and you work on their airplanes. It worked like a charm. I had a career for about 26 or 27 years as a field computer engineer.

What does that job entail?

We’re talking about computers in the ‘70s and ‘80s. It took an army of technicians to keep them going. We had to trouble-shoot and repair and replace parts constantly. It isn’t like now, where one breaks and you just throw it away and buy a new computer. You had to know all your software and languages and stuff like that. I was on the road all the time, going from customer to customer, repairing computers for everybody from Air Force bases to show business to lawyers to whoever.

That sounds like a lot like touring.

I would do anywhere from 400 to 500 miles a week.

Backing up a bit, how did you get into music in the first place?

I started off in surf bands in high school. That was right around the time the folk boom was happening, and I started picking up on that. I liked it because there’s a lot more depth and storytelling to it. Between 1964 and 1966, music just went through this huge revolution. That was the most wonderful thing. I had forgotten all about it until a few years ago, when some guy gave me a CD he had taped decades ago off a local AM radio station. It’s an hour program, and it was so cool because you get to hear the Byrds and Judy Collins and then you’d hear “Tequila” and something else. All this incredible music was being played on the same stations. That’s the way it used to be. You could hear all this different stuff.

From 1968 to 1970, there were so many amazing bands coming out, and the music was just staggering. There’s been nothing like it since. You didn’t have computers, so you actually had to play it and record it. If you wanted to cut and paste, you had to get the scissors and tape. Bands really had to get their chops up. And then you’ve got George Martin with a four-track doing these incredible things. He made Sgt. Pepper on a four-track. Just think about that for a minute. And the influx of folk music, especially Bob Dylan for lyrics and ideas, just changed everything.

Your album falls between those two poles. It’s obviously influenced by folk-rock, but the production is very innovative. I feel like I can tell the shape of the room when I’m listening to these songs.

I love that. The production of it was very bare bones. When we did the bass, drums, and rhythm guitar, we were in a fairly good-size room at this place called PD Sound Studios in the San Fernando Valley. Then we went back to Scott Seely’s studio at Accent Records, which had a little four-track machine. I did the vocals and lead guitar there. I can’t remember the name of the mastering studio, but I remember the Beach Boys had just left and in comes me with my little folk record. I was intimidated, to say the least.

Being out there in California, did you feel like part of a larger scene? Did you feel like you were involved in that revolution?

Absolutely. I started playing a few old clubs and getting with some old friends to play bar-band gigs for weekend money. But I was also heavily involved in the anti-war thing, so I was trying to get my buddies who hadn’t gone yet not to go in the military. I didn’t want them going over there, so I was involved. Music was a big part of that movement. Everything was music at the time. There was a feeling in the ’60s that, if you saw somebody else with long hair, you knew they felt more or less like you did. There was a feeling guaranteed between the two of you that music could change the world. That may be naïve, but it was an honest-to-God feeling we had.

Is that a belief you still hold?

Well, you don’t always see things right away. It’s not like painting a barn white. Okay, it’s a white barn. You can see it clearly. But somebody may hear a song and it might spark an idea. It might change what they’re doing or how they’re thinking. That certainly happened to me.

One of my music heroes is Hoyt Axton. He’s best known as an actor, and you can see him in Gremlins and some other movies. But he was a folk singer in the ’60s, and I used to go down and see him at this place called the Troubadour, where pretty much everybody used to play. His sense of humor, his intelligence, and his insight were remarkable. He would put a political statement into his songs, but it would be a funny thing, a joke or something that wouldn’t ring true to you until after you’d left the concert and gone home. Then you’d think, “Yeah, he was right!”

Your album has worked in a similar way. It took 50 years to sink in, but it’s clear a new generation of listeners feel you have something to say.

I’ve been told that. I’ve been told that by people who weren’t even alive when it was recorded. I think it’s beautiful that music from a different time can still have an impact on people so many years later. It’s important, and I’m really happy to see it happen because, frankly, a lot of the same big problems that were happening then are still happening now. It’s the same thing. Maybe they’ve got different faces or different labels, but they’re still messing people up. They’re still messing the world up. Nothing’s changed.

I don’t disagree with you, but I do find it incredibly discouraging.

But, if you don’t know there’s a problem, you’re lost. If you can at least say, “Yes, you’re right, there is a problem and this is it,” then you can attack it. Or you can at least get some other people together to commiserate.

When you recorded Spirit of the Golden Juice, what were your expectations for it?

When I recorded, I was being completely naïve about the record industry: “Okay, I’ll record an album and we’ll put it out. I’ll go around and I’ll play some places, then it’ll get on the radio and I’ll make a little money. Maybe I’ll record another album. I’ll make my living as a folk-rock singer.” It was really vague. That’s what I wanted to do, but I had no clue about how to go about it. To be fair, Accent was a small label and they didn’t have a clue about it, either. Their biggest star was Buddy Merrill, the guitar player from Lawrence Welk. So they knew how to market him. They marketed to the retirement homes and what not. They sold his 2,000 albums a year, and it worked great for them. But they didn’t have a clue as to what to do with Spirit of the Golden Juice.

Was there a moment when you decided to move on from music? Or was it more of a gradual decision?

Certainly. I had gone up and down the California coast for the better part of three years. I had played gigs at bowling alleys and bars, wherever. Somebody I was talking to said, “You should do Hawaii. There’s all this money over there, all these tourist bars.” So I went to Hawaii and played some hippie parties, which was fine. But in order to make a living over there, you have to go down to Waikiki and Kalakaua Boulevard, and you have to play the tourist clubs. You have to put on the white plastic boots, the white pants, the aloha shirt, and the plastic lei. You have to do Don Ho songs. That’s how you make enough money to pay the rent there, which I did for the better part of a year.

Finally one night, I’m on stage and I’m looking out at all the grandmothers in the audience. I’m listening to the ice cubes clinking in glasses and I’m thinking, “This is not what I started out to do.” I was done. That was my last gig. I packed up my guitar and that was it. I had gotten away from playing music that was meaningful to me and had turned into a human jukebox playing music for money, which took the joy out of it. The 450th time you play “Mustang Sally,” it’s no longer exciting.

Did you go back to this record? Did you ever listen to it after the ’70s?

I didn’t hear this record again until 2009. From 1970 to 2009, I didn’t listen to it. I had a framed copy on the wall, and my family saw it hanging there, but they never listened to it, either.

Did you relate to the songs differently after so long?

To be really honest, they felt like old friends. I fell right into it, after I remembered what I was doing and remembered how the lyrics went. It was wonderful. At the concert with Quilt, we did “Black Night Woman” and my God, that thing came out like a rolling avalanche. It gave me chills.

But the meanings of the songs were essentially the same, because they’re so strong in the first place. But one song stood out — “Five-Year Kansas Blues” — because there’s no draft anymore. The overwhelming feeling I get today is that all these kids who are going out to the far corners of the earth and getting themselves killed, they’re doing it because there are no jobs. That thought devastated me when I was singing that song. I wrote it 50 years ago about guys who went to jail instead of going to war. That was their choice. But now I’m thinking about the kids who can’t get a job, so they go into the Army and they get shot up. That’s not okay. So things haven’t changed very much at all. As a matter of fact, they’ve gotten considerably worse in a lot of ways. Back when I did the album, as bad as things were, kids were pretty sure they could go to college, get a degree, get a decent job, and have a career. They’re not so sure anymore.

Are you planning any more performances?

There have been some people making noise about it, but nothing concrete. I think it would be fun. I wouldn’t look forward to getting on a bus for three or four weeks, but I’d love to do the occasional here and there. If I ever get a chance to play with Quilt again, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Other than that, I suppose what I’d probably have to do is sit down do some serious reworking and work out some kind of solo set. But that could be fun, too.

Kacy & Clayton, ‘Brunswick Stew’

There's something happening north of the border these days. From Corb Lund's dreary Albertan cowboy to the serene melodies of Toronto's Doug Paisley, Canadians are currently pumping out some of our strongest, most mood-evocative roots music — which is rather humorous, being that the genre we're really talking about here is "Americana." Turns out, you don't have to be American at all to have a master grasp on the folk tradition. Actually, if you look at Lund, Paisley, Lindi Ortega, Whitehorse, Daniel Romano, and now, Kacy & Clayton, it's almost better if you're not.

A duo of second cousins from a remote region in Saskatchewan, Kacy Anderson and Clayton Linthicum grew up five hours away from the nearest record store — but that didn't stop them from becoming students of the great blues and country storytellers like the Carter Family and Lead Belly, even if it required prying copies from their neighbors or enduring numerous long drives. Strange Country, their first release for New West, is a set of murder ballads, eerie exploits, and haunting snippets in time, driven by Kacy's high, pristine quiver and Clayton's fast and fertile plucks which render the need for bigger orchestration utterly useless. Like Simon & Garfunkel's "Sounds of Silence," their folk songs always hover on the line of beauty and unease, a lullaby to the dawn of one day but a precursor to an uncertain future lingering right on the horizon.

One of their most compelling tracks is "Brunswick Stew," a jauntier version of their melodic palate, which is not the least bit jaunty in subject matter: It's about a girl who hid her pregnancy from her parents and dumps the resulting newborn in the river. Cautionary tales of small-town scandal have made a bit of a comeback lately, thanks to the likes of Kacey Musgraves or Brandy Clark's brilliant "Big Day in a Small Town" (a song which, coincidentally, also tells of a growing belly that turned out not to be a bunch of donuts, but a baby). Many new interpreters of folk get caught up in the urge to confess — the intimacy of voice and guitar bends well to that, and it's a tempting place to land. But Kacy & Clayton aren’t interested in making a musical diary; they prefer to dig deep into their imaginations, not their memories, for material. The result is Americana magic, regardless of their passport.