Devendra Banhart Finds His ‘Ma’ Muse on Both Sides of the Pacific

On Ma, the new album by folk-globalist Devendra Banhart, there are appearances by singer-songwriter Cate Le Bon and 1970s English folk-rock cult heroine Vashti Bunyan. Lyrics reference his love for Brazilian stars Chico Barque and Caetano Veloso as well as Japanese electro-art-pop pioneer Haruomi Hosono. And no less than Carole King is a presence in a co-write nod via lyrics drawn from “So Far Away.”

But when it comes to guest stars on the album, there’s one that’s hard to top: the Pacific Ocean.

Yup. That noted body of water is credited, fittingly, for “ocean sounds” on the song “October 12.” It’s a song of grief after the death of a friend, and Banhart, who spent much of his youth in Venezuela, his mother’s native country, sings it in Spanish.

“Actually, on every track there is the ocean,” he says, freshly landed at home in Los Angeles after flying across that very ocean from Singapore. “You don’t really hear it, but it is throughout the whole record. What inspired us to do that in the beginning, we recorded in a Buddhist temple in Kyoto with no walls. It is open to a garden. We wanted to create that feel on the album.”

Working with his longtime producer Noah Georgeson and several of his regular musical cohorts, Banhart was invited to record in that temple for just one hour, after a brief Asian tour. The experience was something they wanted to extend through the whole of the album, which they later accomplished by recording in a studio in a house along the Northern California coastline.

“You could hear the Pacific,” he says. “We had the windows open. That’s the big support system for the songs.”

It’s a nurturing presence, even in its most subtle ambience, it being the primal source of life. And as such, it represents the life-giving concept at the heart of the album: motherhood.

“Maternity is the theme,” he says.

There’s more than that here, of course. There is grief in songs such as “Memorial,” about his father, with temple bells mixed in the music, and “The Lost Coast,” about death and loss. The magic of serendipity permeates the album, as does the state of being open to what the world offers. None of the songs are explicitly about motherhood, per se. The notion, in many poetic manifestations, ties it together.

“There’s the relationship one has with a country,” he says, distressed about devastating political and economic strife of the nation in which he was nurtured. “Venezuela has been a constant issue on this record. Moments before now I was talking with my family and reading about what is going on there. It’s a truly apocalyptic situation. My way of writing about it is so related to my mother. At this point I can’t separate my own mother from Venezuela.”

His mother is not currently living there and the last time he visited was two years ago, but he has aunts and uncles and cousins who are there, seeing their country and its people suffer greatly. For him, it’s hard to separate that situation, with which he has such a deep personal relationship, from suffering elsewhere, whether from his own roots or in places where he has spent considerable time (Nepal and Tibet, among them) or that he has merely seen on the news.

“There is the insane suffering of the Venezuelan people, the political madness of the situation in the U.S., Duterte in the Philippines, China and Tibet suffering so much, and the people in Hong Kong.” Banhart seeks solace in the connections he’s made through music, “There’s music and art as the parent-and-child relationship. I turn to music to be consoled, to be less alone, to feel loved and nurtured.”

In that regard, few are more significant to him than Vashti Bunyan. The English singer came from the same folk-rock scene that gave us Fairport Convention, Nick Drake, and the Incredible String Band. Her 1970 album, Just Another Diamond Day, languished in obscurity until the late 1990s when it was “discovered” by musicians in a nascent movement that came to be called freak-folk, a young Banhart among its numbers. That brought about the album’s reissue, and various new recording projects, some involving Banhart. Now in her mid-70s, Bunyan sings with him here on the album’s closing “Will I See You Tonight?”

“Within that maternal theme, I don’t think anyone in my life encapsulates the archetype of the wisdom of artists as much as Vashti does, in terms of that nurturing quality of music,” he admits.

Banhart also seeks to make, or embrace, connections in music itself, some coming quite by surprise. This album is threaded with inspirations from and references to music from many lands and cultures, often connecting in ways wondrous, delightful, and serendipitous. Rarely is any of that planned — at least consciously.

“Sometimes the lyrics come first,” he says. “The music is a platform for the lyrics. As you start, as the song starts to take shape, there’s some collaborative element with other musicians, but also with the song itself, in that way. I don’t mean to be oblique, but it’s this strange way that it takes you in these certain directions. It’s out of your hands.

Sometimes it’s easy, he says, as in the song “Carolina,” which cites an earlier song that has influenced him.

“It’s a song for a song, a song written for the song ‘Carolina’ by Chico Barque,” he says. “It’s an homage to Brazilian music and South American music. There’s a samba feel to it, and me really singing about wanting to hear that song and saying I should probably learn Portuguese someday. In those lyrics it was easy to see the shape of that music.”

Others have more convoluted paths, but in them reveal the global pathways he has so openly relished in his music and in his life.

“In some songs I was quite surprised what was coming out.”

“Kantori Ongaku” offered several such surprises. In the chorus, sung in Japanese, he uses words from a song by Hosono, one of the founders of Japan’s landmark trio Yellow Magic Orchestra. At one point in the cited lyrics, Hosono sings, in English, the words “country music.” That planted some ideas for Banhart as he wrote his song although he wished to sidestep literalism.

“I wanted to do a Buck Owens thing here but that wouldn’t work out,” he says. “J.J. Cale was a great hero of mine so I took J.J. Cale as inspiration, not literally, but that kind of platform emerged for the song. Those things aren’t really done consciously. There are people who are inspirations I’ve been listening to for so long that it enters into the music, naturally.”

In some ways, Ma is a culmination of Banhart’s past work in a career from the two shambling albums he released in 2002 through 2016’s ambling Ape in Pink Marble that’s seen him go from neo-hippie troubadour to bossa nova evangelist, from playful folkiness to, well, playful electro-pop. He’s been a part of collaborations with kindred spirits from Beck to Brazilian tropicalia great Gilberto Gil, with whom he shared the Hollywood Bowl stage one highly memorable evening, to the Strokes’ Fabrizio Moretti to Antony and the Johnsons.

Yet the range and depth of Ma extends beyond even that, particularly in its emotions, the sense of loss in some songs not just complementing the joy in others, but expanding upon it in ways that truly honor the maternal wonder of the world.

How to make that work? How to bring all that together so naturally?

Well, now we get to the other concept of Ma. Yes, the title is a word generally associated with mothers. Banhart’s use of it comes from something else.

“The word ma is actually born from a different meaning,” he says. “It’s a philosophical term for space in Japanese. Starting the record in Kyoto, that’s where I learned the word. I’ve always failed but have strived to get a type of space in the music. How do you create spaciousness in music? Ma is a term of how essential it is to an object, and in music the space between the notes is essential. I really got into that word, and it also happened to be the perfect word for the theme of the album.”


Photo Credit: Lauren Dukoff

MIXTAPE: Joseph’s Night Drive

All three of us went to college in Seattle at a school tucked between Fremont and Queen Anne. At the time, pre-Amazon, we knew the city best for its bridges and sailor vibes and constant grey blanket of melancholy. When you’re driving around at night on top of Queen Anne Hill, thinking about your unrequited love (just me?) the city views of blinking lights are spectacular and the LiveJournal entry is brewing in your mind. These are the songs you’re listening to. – Joseph (Natalie Schepman, Allison and Meegan Closner)

Nick Drake – “From the Morning”

I chose the song with “morning” in the title as the first track of this Night Drive mixtape. Sequence is very important in a mix for a night drive. The first verse says “A day once dawned from the ground / Then the night she fell.” It sets the stage and delivers the opening monologue. — Natalie

Laura Veirs – “When You Give You Give Your Heart”

One of my favorite songwriters:

“My stampeding buffalo
Stops in her tracks and watches the snow
Falling through the old oak tree
When you give your heart to me.” — Natalie

Blanco White – “Ollala”

I found this song on a curated Spotify playlist and I haven’t been able to stop listening to it. It’s become one of my partner’s and my favorite songs to listen to together. — Allie

Fleetwood Mac – “Sara”

My friend showed me this song and told me her Mom used to sing it to her as a kid while she was tucking her into bed. I’ve never been able to shake that childhood movie moment when I hear this song. I listen to it as though that were my own comforting memory. — Meegan

Iron & Wine – “Naked as We Came”

This is a mood, isn’t it? I bet anyone who loved this song gets taken back to where they listened to it. It’s the quintessential Night Drive feeling. — Natalie

John Moreland – “Hang Me in the Tulsa County Stars”

This song means 1,000 things to me, but mostly it’s always felt like coming home. In a lot of uncertain times I returned to this song over and over again to ground me. — Meegan

Death Cab for Cutie – “A Lack of Color”

When I was first curious about how to write songs, Death Cab was big for me. He starts the song with “and” like you’re already in a conversation and that wowed me. — Natalie

Bob Dylan – “Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right”

I heard this song later on in life (within the last year) and fell in love with Bob Dylan’s voice. I know… took me a minute. I love the tongue-in-cheek feel of it and it has given me many special listening moments. — Allie

Sufjan Stevens – “Casimir Pulaski Day”

Sufjan. Mind blowing for me. I’m amazed by his matter-of-fact, deadpan delivery while singing about scenes that combine the horror of cancer right next to “the complications you could do without when I kissed you on the mouth.” It feels like acceptance. It’s devastating but it feels true in my chest. — Natalie

Nickel Creek – “Sabra Girl”

I listened to this song in headphones every night as I fell asleep in my dorm room freshman year. The acoustic guitar, the mandolin, the violin, Sara’s voice. Perfect. — Natalie


Photo credit: Louis Browne

LISTEN: Zak Trojano, “Wolf Trees”

Artist: Zak Trojano
Hometown: Contoocook, New Hampshire
Song: “Wolf Trees”
Album: Wolf Trees
Release Date: August 10, 2018

In Their Words: “‘Wolf Trees’ was recorded in an open C modal tuning, giving the guitar a dark resonant tone that sounds almost like a cello. The song came out of a conversation with a friend and fellow musician about money, fame, and the American dream. The irony that reaching a goal often puts you in the unique position to see through the thin veneer of success, i.e. by the time you’re ready to play Carnegie Hall, you’re ripe enough to know that it isn’t all that different from a good show at your local spot.

It is also the sixth song out of nine, or track two on side B for those who are listening via vinyl. Its position is important because I wrote the songs as movements–or parts of a larger whole. The album deals with themes of modern life: technology, loneliness, and freedom, and the song “Wolf Trees” touches on all of them to some degree. It’s driven by a guitar part that sounds (to me) like I listened to a lot of Nick Drake and Chris Smither records, and the melody is one of my favorites. Enjoy!”


Photo credit: Anja Schutz

MIXTAPE: The Rails’ Take on UK Roots

Agreeing on music is difficult in any household. Kami and I get along musically when we’re holding instruments, but our tastes diverge when it comes to what we listen to in our downtime. Elvis vs PJ Harvey, jazz vs metal, my extensive vinyl collection vs Kami’s beaten-up CDs from the 90s etc. But we agree on a few things, and the artists we’ve chosen for this list represent our sliver of common ground.” — The Rails (James Walbourne and Kami Thompson)

FROM JAMES WALBOURNE:

The Pogues – “The Old Main Drag”

Where does one start with The Pogues? They are a band that has influenced me so much over the years it’s hard to know where to begin. Their blend of trad, rock, punk, country and balladry mixed with the singing and lyrics of Shane MacGowan is a force to behold. Sticking two fingers up at the trad/folk establishment (Ewan MacColl was none too impressed with their version of “Dirty Old Town’”) their music spoke to me. I think this song is perfect, hard-hitting and still relevant. I spent some time playing guitar in The Pogues and I feel blessed to have done so.

Tim O’Brien with Paul Brady – “Mick Ryan’s Lament”

I used to go and watch Tim O’Brien play at The Weavers Arms in London and have always loved the way he would mix Irish and bluegrass music. His singing with Paul Brady on this track is stunning.

The Kinks – “Village Green”

Maybe not the most obvious choice for a roots music playlist but I think it valid. I come from a place called Muswell Hill in North London and it just so happens The Kinks come from there too. On the same road the Davies brothers grew up on, a few doors down, is a house called ‘Fairport’ where Fairport Convention started. It was also an old doctor’s surgery where I used to go as a kid. Just behind that is my old school. I like to think there might be something in the water up there. This song is from the classic Kinks record The Village Green Preservation Society and tells of someone longing for the little country village they came from. An English folk song if ever I heard one.

Derek Bell – “Carolan’s Farewell to Music”

Traditional music played on the harp by Derek Bell of The Chieftans. It’s beautiful.

Nic Jones – “The Humpback Whale”

This record blew my mind when I first heard it on the radio a number of years ago. Just when you thought you’d heard your last great guitar player something like this comes along. Every guitar player should hear it. Tragically, Nic was involved in an automobile accident some years ago which left him unable to play anymore.

The Everly Brothers – “Cathy’s Clown”

We’re both huge fans of harmony singing in general (all the bluegrass brothers, Stanley, Louvin, Delmore, etc) but perhaps our favourites will always be The Everlys. Perfect mix of pop and country.

Son Volt – “Tear Stained Eye”

One of my favourite songs from the Jay Farrar canon. Another musician who can blend folk, rock, country and blues into something unique. This particular track is classic country-sounding but there is something other worldly about it that makes it timeless and haunting. This lineup of the band was a huge influence on me and we even had the great Jim Boquist playing bass on our most recent record, Other People.

Nick Drake – “Time Has Told Me”

I think we both had a go at playing Nick Drake songs long before we met. I for one could never work out the tunings but Kami had them all figured out, which left me begrudgingly impressed. This track is the opening song from Five Leaves Left. It’s a great antidote for homesickness as I find you’re immediately transported back to an English garden the moment you put it on.

FROM KAMI THOMPSON:

Lal and Mike Waterson – “The Scarecrow”

This album is a masterpiece of oddball Britishness. The songs are exceptional and the singing is sublime – Mike is one of my Favourite Ever Singers. I’m lucky enough to know and sometimes sing a tune with Lal’s daughter, Marry, who is also a gifted songwriter.

Martin Carthy – “The Trees They Do Grow High”

Martin and my mum, Linda, used to share a flat off the Archway Road in the ‘60s or ‘70s. So Mum says, anyway. The Waterson/Carthys are the undisputed First Family of Folk. James picked up an old Martin Carthy vinyl at a record store near our old flat, a short walk from the Archway Road, and this song was on it. It’s mesmerising. We learnt it from Martin’s album and put our version on the Australia EP we put out a couple of years back.

Richard and Linda Thompson – “Did She Jump or Was She Pushed”

My mum and dad. I love mum’s vocal on this and it’s one of Richard’s poppiest, ear-worm choruses. Love it. Maybe they’ll put it all behind them and get back together!

Alasdair Roberts – “The Cruel Mother”

Alasdair is a Scottish folk musician of enormous critical acclaim who, he probably won’t mind me saying, hasn’t exactly bothered the charts. He’s far too clever to be popular. His songs are intricate, academic, beautiful. I often make notes at his shows – reminders to self, scratched on bar mats, to read more books.

Max Jury – “Christian Eyes”

I don’t know anything about him, and haven’t heard of any releases since this came out, but this song is pretty much perfect. Whenever it pops up on shuffle I listen to it two or three times.

Kate & Anna McGarrigle – “Tell My Sister”

Kate and Anna were always on the stereo when I was a kid, both of my parents would play their records. Maybe the records they both played was one of the few strands of continuity I felt moving between their respective homes as a child. I love the McGarrigles’ music still and now I get to listen to (and love) Rufus and Martha’s music through a prism of assumed familiarity.

Cathal McConnel – “Scotland-Ireland / The Hangover / Fermanagh Curves”

This song is so evocative, it hurts. I feel the Celtic blood surge in my veins as the tune soars and soothes. It brings my heart almost to bursting every time I hear it. Also, Cathal seems to almost never stop for breath, which is a marvel in itself.


Photo credit: Jill Furmanovsky

The Nomadic Singer Stills Her Wild Heart: A Conversation with Bedouine

Like her appellation, Bedouine (Azniv Korkejian) has wandered far from where she first began. The nomadic impulses beating at the heart of her chosen stage name carried her from her birthplace in Syria to her self-described home in Saudi Arabia as a child and later to the United States, where she continued shuffling from Boston to Houston to Lexington to Savannah, and eventually Los Angeles. But with that kind of existence forming the bedrock of her identity, and the mystery — not to mention magic — of new places constantly calling, what does it take to stay? Nothing really so romantic, really. Just a choice. Thanks to the artistic community she eventually found in her most recent adopted city, Korkejian has sacrificed the wild call of the road to instead see whether or not the old adage about blooming where you’re planted holds salt … for now.

Rather than focus entirely on her wandering ways, her self-titled debut traces the surprising blossom of love for one so used to traveling light. On “Heart Take Flight,” she spends the first meters of each verse allowing her voice to convey its full dusky depth before loosening it to rise to a joyous conclusion. The chorus’s simple maxim, “Heart take flight. I give you every right, when he’s around,” not only encourages mindfulness, but also acts as a kind of permission: “Dive in, it’s okay.” But Korkejian’s lyricism contains an enchanting ephemerality, as if she knew one day she would need to sing these songs to herself. The “you” surfacing throughout the album shifts from lover to self as time carries the message back to the messenger. In “Dusty Eyes,” she ventures forth her feelings, but her declarations feel as much to herself as to anyone who has momentarily captured her heart. “The lampposts burn the night, but they don’t come close. No, they don’t come close to the way that I feel about you now.” If movement involves a process of self-discovery, then Korkejian traces a similar means of self-exploration by choosing where to stay, and for whom. The answer may have initially involved someone else, but by the album’s end, it largely comes down to her.

Written over the course of three years, Bedouine came about after Korkejian heard what Matthew E. White’s Space Bomb studio had done for artists like Natalie Prass. She sent him a demo, and something about the confluence of her lyricism, the space she breathes into every song, and her soporific yet self-assured voice wasn’t so easily brushed aside. It’s easy to hear why on songs like “Solitary Daughter” which reverberates with independence — the kind fought for after years of self-doubt and discovery. “I don’t want your pity, concern, or your scorn. I’m calm by my lonesome, I feel right at home,” she sings. Korkejian’s debut comes in her early 30s, a refreshing place for a new voice to enter the conversation, as she eschews the often-solipsistic questioning that takes place earlier in life, and instead enters quietly yet assertively to offer a different, more internally robust, picture of the wanderer enticed to stay.

How have you curated a sense of rootedness within all the movement you’ve experienced?

I don’t know that I have, to be honest. I love L.A. — I think it’s the closest thing to home that I’ve felt in a really long time. But I think when I left Saudi Arabia as a kid, I had this pent up resentment like, “As long as I’m not there, I may as well be anywhere.” I was pretty intentional with anything I acquired: I wanted to stay light on my feet; I wanted to know I could move myself place to place on the drop of a dime. It’s only recently that I was like, “Maybe I’ll buy some furniture.” I do want to feel at home in L.A., and it’s a current process for me.

Like choice over happenstance.

Yeah, I think so. It’s largely due to the people that I’ve met. They’re so wonderful and talented, and I feel so inspired, and it wasn’t until I moved to L.A. that I pushed myself to be a better writer. There’s no room for mediocracy there. Not to say that I’m so great — I just felt like I got better.

It’s the kind of record that demands attention. I think that’s part of its power: There’s a soothing quality about it.

Thank you. There are times I’m singing and I think I’m singing my heart out in there, and I go back to listen to it and I sound half asleep. It’s just what I know. I don’t know how to sing any other way. Growing up, I loved to sing a little bit more bombastically, but it was always to other people’s music. I don’t think it’s conducive to the kind of song I write, and I’ve learned to accept that — that it’s a different quality.

You’ve drawn comparisons to Judy Collins and Nick Drake, and especially Leonard Cohen in terms of your lyrics’ poetic quality …

Which is totally fine!

Not a bad comparison! So that blend of the poet’s voice — quiet but insistent — alongside the melodic, what are you turning to for guidance? Other writers? Something else?

[Regarding “Solitary Daughter”] The whole thing was so reactionary. It just poured out of me that one night; I didn’t even stop to ask myself what I was trying to say exactly. The language is so figurative, and I leaned into it without interrupting it much. It felt so internal. I don’t think I was reading anything at the time that found its way in, necessarily. It was just a really emotional experience writing it.

I know people have fixated on the claim of solitude you make, but you’ve also said it’s about experiencing a relationship as two whole individuals rather than hoping such a connection will make you whole.

Yeah, I’ve had to backpedal a bit to understand what I was saying. It’s inspired by that quote, “No man is an island.” It’s about empathy and isolation, and here I am singing this song that says like, “Leave me alone, leave me alone.” I had to dig a little deeper, like “Why did I say that?” I had to come to terms that it was about this specific kind of relationship: If I’m doing something entirely on someone else’s terms and I’m not being considered, that’s why I’m saying, “Leave me alone.” But then I sing about an ocean, and an ocean is about connectivity, but it’s also about a self-sustaining, rich internal life existing underneath a surface. It’s fine on its own. It doesn’t need tending to, but it also connects everything together. It’s been a joyful process, breaking that down.

Discovering and rediscovering, in a way.

Yeah, it’s revealed itself to me, in a way.

This is just one interpretation, but I think of it as a love song both in terms of what one offers to oneself.

I love that. Someone brought up with me that it’s not as common to hear a woman singing about a rich internal life. I didn’t even think of it that way, but it must’ve found its way in there. As a woman, maybe, I feel a little bit protective of myself in a way that I don’t want to be perceived as “less than.” I also don’t want to overcompensate, but sometimes you feel you have to. I think it does say that: “I’m happy with myself, and if you can’t see me as an equal, then there’s no reason to continue.”

Yes. Also, too, I think society doesn’t know what to do with women who are out in public and visibly, comfortably alone. So I love that you’ve managed to cultivate this rejoinder to that.

Yeah, it is. And it’s a pretty passionate claim, too.

Another love song that struck me is “Heart Take Flight.”

I’m so happy you feel that way because no one has asked me about that song.

How much would you say that your movement has made you guarded to a point where you have to remind yourself to enjoy those romantic, vulnerable moments when you find them?

Absolutely. That song is like a memo to myself. I wrote it when I first fell in love with someone, and I thought to myself, “I can’t forget the way this feels.” You hear about love or feelings fading or building an immunity to it, and I wanted to remember the way I was feeling at that moment.

A reminder and also a permission, which I thought so haunting.

Yes! I haven’t had to talk about this song, so I’m still sorting this out, but, yeah, it is about giving my heart permission to let go a little bit. And it is a counterpart to “Solitary Daughter.” Like a bookend.

Also, what you were saying before about rootedness and the materialism it engenders — buying furniture — it also means attachments, and people can be part of that equation.

Yes, so to speak in terms of the song, “Back to You,” which is the third track, that is a song I wrote about having an instinct to leave Los Angeles, but staying for someone, so it all kind of connects, in a way. What I’m saying in that song is, “It always comes back to you. That’s why I’m here.” It doesn’t make a huge case or anything, really. It’s just more of an observational song. Taking in L.A. and trying to understand everyone’s place there and what they do, and being confused about it sometime. Taking note that I’m there for that reason, and trying to be okay with that.

Definitely, and what we were discussing before about choosing a place. There’s freedom in that action, but it can be overwhelming in how you define and create “home.” Turning to the cover, I couldn’t help thinking of Alice in Wonderland. What was the intention behind that?

That was not intentional. Yeah, a lot of people have said that ,and I totally see it, and it actually kinda works with this whole theme. That photo was taken from a series of photos that my friend Polly did. The floor — that was the studio we recorded the record in. Before, you could see the background, but the photo was more striking when we blacked out the background and brought the shadows down. We didn’t shoot it with the intention of it being the cover, but I started messing around with a lot of templates, and I was looking at Nick Drake’s cover of Bryter Layter, which I think is one of the most beautiful album covers, especially the color combinations, and that lavender with the bright orange, I thought was so cool. I didn’t want to take that, as much as I did the oval pendant.

As a frame.

Yes, I love that frame. I think it’s so sweet and elegant. I brought that idea to Robert Beatty. He lives in Lexington, Kentucky, and I’ve always been a fan of his work, but in the last two years he’s gotten some really big records, but thankfully he did it. He made it a little psychedelic. The thing about it, which also was not intentional, it looks like a book cover, especially with the Space Bomb banner. To help with the symmetry of the record, we extended the banner, so you’ll see it looks different than their other releases.

And here you also created such lovely space throughout the album.

We were 30 songs deep, actually. We were just recording bits and pieces and slices of time — this is over the course of the last three-and-a-half years. They inherently had so much space to them because nothing was over-produced. When Matthew became interested in the record, we cherry picked our 10 favorite songs, and because we were aware of their process and how they wanted to put arrangements down, it worked out where it was like, “Let’s not over-produce these songs. If anything, let’s give them more space to work with.” They had to finagle their arrangements, which is something they normally have in mind when they’re producing.

That would have been a curious way to go about shaping this as a record.

I was so nervous about it because I had so much time to grow attached to these songs exactly the way they were, and I also fell in love with the space. “Heart Take Flight” is the perfect example. I presented it to Matthew as an afterthought and he was pretty passionate about “Heart Take Flight” being on the record. At that point, Trey had already started writing the arrangements. We didn’t intend it to sound so Nick Drake-y, and so Gus had to counteract that with something different, which is why he chose to put the moog on it, so it became a little less traditional. I didn’t listen to a Nick Drake song and think, “I’m going to write this.” I just changed the tuning on my guitar and started writing that. At the time, I really liked the method of seeing how long I could stay on one chord for, which is what I did for “Solitary Daughter.” I didn’t see it as an issue, but Gus said we needed to back away from that.

It’s a haunting sound, akin to a finger running over the rim of a wineglass.

Yeah, it’s so round. I think it worked out because it leant itself to an otherworldly type of thing. That’s a reference I gave to Robert Beatty. This is a perfect example of what the artwork could do: Traditional and simple, but notes of otherworldliness.

All of which came across. It’s really striking altogether.

Thank you. I’m so in love with the artwork.

I’m excited because when you’re talking about having 30 songs and carving them down to 10, that means we get more albums in the future, right?

Oh man, if I wanted to, I already have the next two records written, but I do want to challenge myself to keep writing. I have such a backlog of stuff that I didn’t record.

Squared Roots: Courtney Hartman on the Urgency of Nick Drake

 

Nick Drake is one of those musical unicorns who achieved amazing posthumous success, though enjoyed very little acclaim while alive. Having recorded and released three albums between 1969 and 1972 — Five Leaves Left, Bryter Layter, and Pink Moon — Drake was working on a fourth prior to his death by overdose in 1974. Drake was plagued by depression and his work reflects a depth of feeling that can often only come from someone who has faced those sorts of demons. Still, there's a certain mellow peace in there, too.

It's that peace that drew Courtney Hartman into Drake's work. On the heels of three albums with Della Mae, Hartman recently released a solo EP, Nothing We Say. Though her earliest influences are guys like Norman Blake and Bill Frisell, Hartman was, in more recent years, drawn to Drake's spirit and captivated by his craft.

For folks only knowing you from Della Mae's brand of bluegrass-tinged folk, Nick Drake probably seems like a left-of-center pick. Connect the dots.

First of all, as I've been digging in the past couple of days, it's an endless well of darkness. [Laughs] I think it was somebody in Boston who told me to check him out. Probably Pink Moon was the first album of his that I listened to. I listened and connected, but it wasn't actually until I heard his mom's [Molly Drake] recordings that I was like, “OH!” It was like the bigger picture and it made me want to dig in more. I remember I was on a Megabus heading down to New York from Boston, maybe six years ago, and somehow came across Squirrel Thing Recordings. That was a little group that put out a release of Molly Drake songs. I was floored and listened to that over and over again, then went back to Pink Moon and dug in from there.

I think the first thing that struck me about Nick's playing … as, primarily, a guitarist, that's one of the first things I listen to when I'm listening to music. What struck me about his playing, maybe more than anything, was his rhythmic integrity … which sounds, potentially, so surface. But I was blown away by that. You can hear all the other possibilities of instrumentation while only listening to just him. He brings all of that into a singular voice. And, also, the way that he has an incredibly conversational style between his voice and guitar.

That's fascinating to hear you describe it that way. Not being much of a guitar player, that's not how I hear it, but I totally get it when you describe it that way. And, when I think of timeless-sounding records, his always make the cut. That's the beauty of roots music made with real instruments — you don't get caught up in technology trends that pin your work to a particular moment. There's such a purity to what he did … which ties back to what you were saying.

Totally! I think, particularly in Pink Moon. His first two albums had more instrumentation and were brilliant. He had a buddy from Cambridge do his string and horn arrangements. Reading about that a bit … He was working on that first album with Joe Boyd and he had brought in someone to do the arrangements and they just weren't feeling right, so Nick said, “Hey, I want my college buddy to do it.” Turns out, that was the first time Robert Kirby had ever done studio work before. Listening to those string arrangements knowing that is kind of mind-blowing. Obviously, Nick had a sonic vision and knew which direction to go.

All that is to say, those first two albums could sound dated, but I think that's more due to arrangement stuff. His third album, Pink Moon, absolutely could have come from any time.

It's stunning to listen to all of it and know he made it all before the age of 26.

It's insane! I'm 26. It's wild to think of that. [Laughs]

The depth of soul and emotion conveyed … it really is insane.

Absolutely. He also recorded Pink Moon in two nights — just him and an engineer.

Oh! I didn't know that. Wow!

When you hear it, there's an urgency about it, in some sense. I don't know … It's all kind of blowing my mind right now. There's a sense of urgency, but to me, that album doesn't feel incredibly dark. If you read about it or listen to other people's takes, it's often portrayed as being a really dark album because it maybe came from a really dark time in his life. But it doesn't feel that dark. There's a connection to it. I think what people connected to, after the fact, after he died, was maybe a similar thing … like the cult following of Frida Kahlo, where they connect at a very deep, foundational level with the raw pain she put into her work. The urgency comes from a necessity of the work. She had to make what she made. It was a survival work for her. I think, for him, it was also a survival work.

For people like that, particularly ones with mental health challenges, depression, music — or art — must seem like the only real truth in the world.

Potentially, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the only thing that can even come close to capturing the textures and layers and colors and all of the different elements that they are feeling and experiencing in one little nugget. It's pretty powerful.

There's a book by Elizabeth Gilbert called Big Magic. In that book, there are parts where she wants to debunk some common beliefs and assumptions about art and artists. One of them being … with so many artists, we assume that it was their art that eventually drove them insane — it was their craze, their need to create. She wants to bring up the perspective of that maybe being what saved them. And maybe there's a little bit of that in Nick's work. We can't say. We can only speculate. We have the music that he put out into the world, which I'm grateful for.

You have to wonder, if he'd had the success he had posthumously while he was still alive … would that have made it better or worse for him? That's another impossible thing to know.

In interviews with folks who knew him, when they question whether it could have saved him to just take him out to a bar and slap him around a little bit and say, “Hey, man! Wake up!” You can only question those kinds of things so much. You don't know.

So, since you are 26 and he was 26 … how do you gauge where you are? [Laughs] It's an impossible question, right? When you look at other people your age and what they've done … it's hard to take in, I would imagine.

[Laughs] It is hard to take in. I think an easy death of inspiration is comparison, whether that be boosting up what you've done or degrading it. We live in a really weird time of perpetual comparison. We're flipping through Instagram and that is, ultimately, just a big, white board of life comparisons. And we put filters on it to make it look better or more melancholy or whatever it is. That's our time.

[Laughs] That's funny. Technology has done a lot of wonderful things. And it also hasn't.

Reading about Molly Drake … she created just to create. She just made these songs. Nick's sister, Gabrielle, has said that they just had a reel-to-reel recorded in their living room. When he was a young kid, his mom encouraged Nick to play piano and he would just record stuff. They were just creating to create, at that point. Her songs … she never anticipated them going out. She was a poet, but never really had her work published. So there's this private sense about their work, as well, that I don't think we can quite fully grasp now because it's all so the opposite. And maybe Nick didn't quite know how to reckon with that. He maybe saw that private creation side of his mom, but also knew for his survival's sake … Who knows?

I sometimes will listen to Jeff Buckley's Grace record or watch a River Phoenix movie and wonder what they would have become. If they were that great at such young ages … but they gave us all they needed to give us, then took their bow and exited stage left.

Yeah. I think what you asked about summing up your life's work up to where you are … more than anything, music and work like his that does feel so urgent and inevitable makes me want to just buckle down and work and understand what it is that I need to do that feels inevitable. Because we put off those things. People like him … you go away from their work wanting to be more of your own thing, do more of what it is that you do. I think that the great artists, ultimately, that's what they do.

 

For more insight into artists' influences, check out LP discussing Roy Orbison.


Courtney Hartman photo courtesy of the artist. Nick Drake photo via public domain.

3×3: David Berkeley on ‘Pet Sounds,’ ‘Pink Moon,’ and the Redoubtable Glory of Autumn

Artist: David Berkeley
Hometown: Santa Fe, NM
Latest Album: Cardboard Boat
Latest Book: The Free Brontosaurus
Personal Nicknames: Shags (given to me by my guitarist). Oddly, though, 15 years ago, when I taught briefly in a Brooklyn public school, the kids called me Shaggy.

 

Signing at booth 12 at wordstock of anyone's in Portland.

A photo posted by David Berkeley (@davidberkeleymusic) on

What was the first record you ever bought with your own money?
Pet Sounds on compact disc. Played it in my bedroom on my new boom box CD player and thought it was the prettiest thing I'd ever heard.

If money were no object, where would you live and what would you do?
I'd go back to Corsica and have a little farm-to-table restaurant by the water. I'd still play music, though. Clearly I'm not doing that for the money, so having more wouldn't alter that.

If your life were a movie, which songs would be on the soundtrack?
See my answer to the karaoke question below (though "Pink Moon" would probably be more accurate).

 

Vermont, you devil.

A photo posted by David Berkeley (@davidberkeleymusic) on

What brand of jeans do you wear?
Jacob Davis

What's your go-to karaoke tune?
I haven't done karaoke in a long time, but I think I could do Neil Diamond's "I am, I Said" some justice.

What's your favorite season?
Autumn. Does anyone answer differently?

 

Your classic book tunnel.

A photo posted by David Berkeley (@davidberkeleymusic) on

Kimmel or Fallon?
Probably Fallon. Though I'm still missing Letterman.

Jason Isbell or Sturgill Simpson?
Probably Jason. But Sturgill is a pretty epic name.

Chocolate or vanilla?
Vanilla.


Photo credit: Kerry Sherck