The String – Margo Price and Jeremy Ivey

As recently as five years ago, Nashville’s Margo Price was having trouble making ends meet after many years of “playing dives trying to stay alive” as she says in her new song “Twinkle Twinkle.” But as that song also documents, she hit on the right sound with the right team.


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Third Man Records released her debut album in 2016 and it’s been a remarkable ride ever since. By her side the entire time has been her husband, co-writer and bandmate Jeremy Ivey. I got a chance to talk to them together about the new music both of them released in the strange days of 2020.

This Could Be a Golden Year for Lillie Mae

Brown’s Diner is the kind of hole-in-the-wall that your eyes have to adjust to, after stepping in from a sunny afternoon in Nashville. However, Lillie Mae shines like a beacon in the dim light of the dark booth as she gabs with the staff she’s clearly known for years.

A twenty-year Nashville veteran, her very first business meeting as the youngest member of her former family band, Jypsi, was in this very restaurant. A true road warrior, Lillie Mae and family traversed the country playing bluegrass festivals and churches. On the heels of a censored childhood steeped in traditional music, she graduated to the honky-tonks of Lower Broadway and on to her own burgeoning career as a solo artist now signed to Third Man Records.

Settling in at the beloved burger-and-fries mainstay after three weeks on the road with The Raconteurs, Lillie Mae detailed the process of making her brand new record, Other Girls, with producer Dave Cobb, as well as songwriting inspiration, a crummy golden year, and what works feels like when it doesn’t feel like work.

BGS: Your lyrics leave a lot to the imagination. They weave a story and put you in a setting but they aren’t inculcating anything for the listener. But tell us more about “A Golden Year.”

That one and the last one are my favorites on the album for sure. Basically, my birthday is June 26 so my golden year was a year ago. We were in The Refuge in Appleton, Wisconsin, and we’d played a couple of gigs up there and we were leaving this monastery. It is an amazing place where musicians and artists of all kinds can go and live for free. Food and everything is taken care of. They get government grants and they have a studio. It is an amazing place right on the water.

We were rolling out and I went to do one more look around and my brother was still wrapping up so I was just walking through the hallways. They have a chapel where they do shows and I heard a choir singing “Ahhhs” and I just heard the whole song and I had a guitar in my hands. I rummaged through rooms to find a pen. I sat down on the guitar case and wrote it. It came from somewhere else. It is a perfect example that we are just a vessel. I had been looking forward to my golden year my whole life and then it turned out pretty lousy for me. I was super depressed and down and writing that song was probably the best part of it.

Do you sit down to write or do you mostly write when you are inspired?

You know, mostly when it starts to come through. But if I sit down and pluck on the guitar or something for a minute, I will easily find myself trying to come up with something. I don’t sit down and try to write nearly as often as I should.

Did you have to do any of that for this record as you were putting the songs together?

Nah. There were a couple of things that were not completely finished, like the last song on the record. I was tweaking words until recording. Some stuff was almost there. And every once in a while, if a second verse is not coming, I’ll just repeat the verse, though that’s kind of cheating.

With your ingestion of art being censored in your religious upbringing, there is some open sexuality on this record. Bluegrass, folk, and country have all been known to suppress that. Have you ever come up against censorship from co-creators or folks in the business realm?

Totally. I think a lot of it you can do it to yourself. You can put yourself in a little conservative box easily. But these days, I’ve just lost my care about what people think. It just doesn’t matter. I have a couple of songs that I haven’t been open about what they are about — on the last album, that were written about abortion. Songs that were really heavy to me and I never talked about that. It wasn’t a secret but “Why do we need to talk about this?” because it can mean whatever it means to anyone. But that is coming from a very conservative place of trying to please all ears.

Having these old mindsets of being in old Nashville, I definitely have been more conservative than I truly am. For me to not mute or hide lyrics or not be open about things, it has been a step for me. There is a song on the album called “Crisp & Cold” that was inspired by a friend of mine who is transgender. There is a line in the song that says, “Don’t be scared/Be more.” When you literally have to worry that some people might take your life because of that. It is crazy. There are times when you don’t want to offend anyone but those days are over.

But growing up in bluegrass, we did the circuit. We were always on our way to another festival. My sisters were older than me and were beautiful young women who were experiencing growing out of the whole religious thing. We did Beatles covers back then when I was a little kid and bluegrass snubbed us. To love something so much and to be ousted from it because you’ve developed some fashion sense or something. It sucks to be such a supporter of something and to not have them have your back. But it has changed a lot.

Did you and your siblings grow up listening to any specific artists?

It was super limited, what we were allowed to listen to and we grew up playing full time. We played churches and bluegrass festivals. We had a lot of live influence. As far as what we were allowed to listen to, it was not very much. We’d be allowed to listen to some Del McCoury songs but not all of them because of the content. A lot of Marty Robbins and Hank Williams, but always excluding some stuff because my folks were super strict.

Did you find yourself seeking ways to listen to those excluded songs?

Not me. I’m the youngest in the family and I never did. I’m really bad about that still. I don’t go out and pick out music. If I go to a record store, I have a panic attack. Every single time I end up on the floor in a corner just sitting cross-legged waiting for everyone to check out. I have full-on attacks. Maybe I’ll be better now. It has been a minute since I’ve been in one. I never got joy out of going to buy a record.

I was the youngest and growing up, I never had a choice. I didn’t get to pick where we went or what we listened to or anything. I just listen to what other people are listening to. I really rely on my boyfriend or my brother playing cool music. Unless I hear someone at a gig or a festival, then I’ll pick up their music. Like Natalie Prass. My brother met her at a show a couple of years back and he brought her CD home. And I was like, “Oh my God.” Her music changed me.

Jack White gave me a record player but I didn’t have speakers and I’m technically challenged so I could never figure out how to hook it up. The vehicle I have doesn’t have music. I have very little music on my phone and rarely listen to it. I do think I have Natalie Prass’ record on there. [Laughs]

What was it like working with Dave Cobb on this album?

He was wonderful to work with. He’s a really nice person. The first conversation we had, we talked about some bluegrass bands. I think it was something different for him. I was very nervous as first to go in because I was out of my comfort zone but it was really easy. We went in and recorded a song, took a lunch, and came back and recorded another song. It was a pretty easy process.

How was it out of your comfort zone?

Well, Dave uses his drummer Chris Powell on most of his stuff so for me going in because I’m such a picky asshole, I was nervous about playing with someone I hadn’t played with. I was just nervous it wasn’t going to be my vibe. But it was. It was wonderful. It’s an amazing studio [RCA Studio A] with great sounds and a great crew.

So it was pretty easy once it started?

Totally. After song number one. The first song had two different time signatures the way it was written but it got straightened out to just one. At first, I was like, “What is going to happen here?” It ended up a great thing, but I was a little stubborn at first.

Did that create friction?

No. Not at all. I kept it to myself. I went to the bathroom, cried it out, and came back ready to give it a try.

That’s awesome you trust your producer.

Well, I’d be foolish. Who am I, you know? Here’s a shot to work with some amazing people. If I threw a wrench in it, there are too many people on board. There are too many people invested in me. I owe too many people too many things. There’s a time and a place. Maybe next album. [Laughs]

I’ll get OCD and have little brain freak-outs. One can come across as stubborn, and all I’ve ever tried to do is be opposite of that. I’ve tried hard to be positive and give my all no matter what the project is, but those little OCD things, they can hinder you for sure.

Have you ever made concessions that you regretted making because the art didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to?

If I’ve thought like that, I’ve tried to change my outlook and be like, this is the way it was supposed to be. It (the process of making the album) wasn’t what I had anticipated. I anticipated buckling down. I anticipated really working hard, and then when I wasn’t working hard and it was just coming really easily and naturally, I felt like I wasn’t doing a lot. When you are used to hustling and it comes easy, it feels like something must be wrong.

How do you feel about the release of the new album? What is the period like right before it comes out?

The last couple of weeks [touring with The Raconteurs] were super exciting. It was fun to be out playing the tunes. I wasn’t ready to be done. I enjoyed it a little too much.

I’m pretty level. Just from so many years of getting my hopes up, not even just about music. I used to get so excited about something but I crashed and burned too many times. I don’t allow myself to get excited about much of anything. People will get the wrong impression that I’m not enjoying myself or that I’m not grateful. I’m so thrilled but my expectations are pretty low. I’m excited about it coming out, but if I got dropped tomorrow I think I’d be prepared. Which is not good! [Laughs]

My boyfriend took the pictures for the album campaign. And my sister Scarlett and our friend Amy helped with the photo shoot. It was just us, so it feels super close to home, and I feel really proud of it.


Photo credit: Misael Arriaga

A Minute in Nashville with Chuck Mead

“I have a lot of people ask me, ‘Where do I go when I come to Nashville?’ and my answer is always, ‘Well, what are you into? Music? Food? Underground sex scene?’ I don’t know much about that last one there, but there sure is a lot to do in Nashville these days. Top-notch dining, a bunch of clubs and bars, and spectacular musicians of all types.” – Chuck Mead

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByyyGAIpkoN/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Lower Broadway
You have to see Lower Broadway at least once during your visit. This is where honky tonks line both sides of the street and the people and music spill out onto the sidewalks. Robert’s Western World is the must-stop on the street. It’s my old stomping grounds where my old band BR5-49 got our start. Traditional honky tonk played the way it’s supposed to be — with heart. Layla’s next door is an excellent place to be as well.


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Ryman Auditorium
These honky tonks are all in the shadow of the Mother Church of Country Music, the Ryman Auditorium — another must-see downtown. And while you’re in that neck of the woods, see The Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum, where you can follow the progression of country music from the beginning right up to today’s stars.


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Honky Tonk Tuesday at American Legion Post 82
If you’re around on a Tuesday night, go to the American Legion Post 82. Just driving into the parking lot takes you to another world. Make your donation at the door (unless you’re a veteran), grab a nice cold, cheap beer, go dance your ass off to some really fantastic old school country music, and don’t forget to tip the band!


https://www.instagram.com/p/BxGDgXKHDJa/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

The Grand Ole Opry
It pretty much goes without saying that if you come to Nashville, a visit to the Grand Ole Opry should be on the itinerary. It’s the show that made country music.


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Third Man Records
But it’s not all hillbilly music – there’s Jack White’s Third Man Records for a killer record store experience and it’s always great to go see Thee Rock n Roll Residency at the Mercy Lounge whenever they’re in town.


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Bolton’s Spicy Chicken & Fish
Nashville is pretty famous, food-wise, for its hot chicken. There are a few ways to go — Prince’s is the original and is great of course (if you order the hot – you have a stronger constitution than me.) But my favorite hot chicken in town is Bolton’s. I suggest a taste test!


https://www.instagram.com/p/BybYlmwhmn0/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Margot Cafe
If you’re looking for a world-class dining experience, may I suggest Margot Cafe in Five Points in East Nashville. Margot serves up fancy French-type food combined with down-home Southern heart; fresh, local cuisine with a menu that changes all the time, and a terrific bar as well.


https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxsio3xDn7V/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Mas Tacos
Also on the Eastside is Mas Tacos. This is my go-to place for times when I say to myself, “Man, I sure could use some more tacos.” Great food. Great vibe. Groovy courtyard.


https://www.instagram.com/p/Byq_mFsAwYK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Here are other places I recommend: Grimey’s Record Store (made by record people for record people); The Basement and The Basement East – always a variety of different kinds of great live music both places; Germantown Cafe, fresh and modern American cuisine; First Tennessee Park, right across the street, where you can take in a Nashville Sounds baseball game (if it’s in season, of course); and many others you can look up on your phone yourself. Check out the music listings and see if I’m playing anywhere. If you see me, say “Hey!”


Photo credit: Joshua Black Wilkins

Producer Chris King on Lena Hughes’ QUEEN OF THE FLAT TOP GUITAR

Lena Hughes was born in Grape Grove Township, Missouri in 1904. Though she never recorded any 78s during her lifetime, she performed often at various fiddler conventions and folk festivals throughout the Ozarks. She played fiddle, banjo and guitar, mastering parlor pieces and the specialized tunings that were necessary to play them. She lived most of her life in Ludlow, Missouri and passed away in 1998. Lena Hughes did manage to record one full-length LP that has up until very recently, been a very elusive recording for anyone to own or even listen to.

Thanks to the Tompkins Square label, the recordings of Lena Hughes, that were originally captured in the early 1960’s in Arkansas and released only a very limited basis, is now available for collectors, as well as newcomers as Queen of the Flat-Top Guitar.

Chris King is a record collector and producer who worked on a number of amazing projects including People Take Warning! Murder Ballads & Songs of Disaster 1913-1938 box set (Tompkins Square), Amede Ardoin – Mama, I’ll Be Long Gone: The Complete Recordings of Amede Ardoin 1929-1934 (Tompkins Square), Aimer et Perdre : To Love & To Lose Songs, 1917-1934 (Tompkins Square), Charley Patton: Screamin’ and Hollerin’ The Blues (Revenant), The Bristol Sessions (Bear).

I had the pleasure of speaking with Chris for the first time, regarding his work on the Aimer et Perdre release last year. When I read that he was behind the new Lena Hughes album, I immediately reached out to Josh at Tompkins Square and to Chris to see if we could share his experiences remastering the recordings.

So it was a thrill to talk to Chris about his impressions of Lena Hughes, his work on Queen of the Flat-Top Guitar, and some very exciting details on his other upcoming projects (including releases for Jack White’s Third Man Records, Angry Mom Records, Relevant Records, and his own How The Other Half Hears imprint).

Hi Chris, it is great to speak with you again. Can you talk about your own history with Lena Hughes’ music? When and how did you discover her work?

Chris King: I first encountered Lena Hughes’ music at a small, dusty & dirty outdoor flea market in Dublin, Virginia in the late summer of 1996. I normally descended on this flea market to hunt for old 78s but I occasionally went through boxes of LPs if I thought there might be some obscure old-time string bands from Pulaski, Galax, or Patrick County lurking inside.

Sure enough, this LP was obscure but it had traveled all the way from Missouri to Virginia. So I bought it since it contained ‘old familiar tunes.’ It was only later when I started working for Dave Freeman that I learned that Charlie Faurot had recorded Hughes in the late 1960s.

What drew you most to her work and how did her recordings connect to/ inform/ etc. to others in your collection?

Chris: It is probably the completely relaxed, unselfconsciousness of her playing. It is as if I had just walked into her kitchen and she was nimbly picking out these tunes while her coffee percolated. Of course she was also playing songs and airs that I was already deeply familiar with from the old 78s.

The strange and attractive thing to me was this: she played them pure and unadorned, in a style was archaic, idiosyncratic, loving, and, above all, attentive. It is as if her papa was watching her play and nodding with approval. Maybe that is why I love it so. She’s a real throw back to the 19th century when people played not so much to get paid, but rather to entertain the family and oneself. It was just like listening to Sam McGee or Bayless Rose on the old 78s, but even more informal. Regardless, it is subtle.

How did you get involved in the project?

Chris: Well, I received a note from John Renbourn that he was desperately seeking this rare recording and wondered if I might know of where I might be able to find a copy. So that night I made a copy onto CD (imagine the novelty of making a copy of something so that it can be shared with someone without all the pretenses of ‘limited hand numbered copies’ or ‘liking it’ on Facebook). I mailed it to him.

A few days later, as I was meditating on the delusions of Vintonian megalomaniacs, I decided to listen to the record again, to give me some hope about sound and truth.  I made and sent a copy of ‘Pearly Dew’ to Josh Rosenthal (of Tompkins Square Records) indicating that this was the sound of heaven.  He immediately replied, wondering what it was. After a brief back and forth, we decided to put the recordings out.

How does working on this collection connect to your larger body of work (People Take Warning, Charley Patton, Aimer Et PerdreAmede Ardoin, and more)?

Chris: It connects in two ways.

One, Lena stands as a continuum, a viable, tangible link and crossroad between the old, unvarnished artists like Patton and Ardoin, as well as more recent artists like Fahey & Rose. I have an uncompromising love of such music.

Second, she connects with the Long Gone Sound Series since her slim body of recordings poses a mystery, a problem that is worth confronting and also worth sharing.

When this LP was recorded, you of course have all this pop music that was simultaneously lining the pockets of producers like Clive Davis and decimating our musical soul. Country music in the late 1960s had become a slave to Nashville and was becoming more and more homogenized and bland.  During all this, a very humble woman, steeped in a traditional music that she thought of as second nature, made arrangements to record her guitar instrumentals so that she could sell a few dozen at local fiddle contests.

She probably paid for the recording and pressing since she didn’t see that it had any commercial appeal. Such a human transaction is staggering to me but also it begs the question: ‘How can such unadulterated purity of expression escape into such a dirty world? ‘

What is most rewarding for you regarding your work as a producer, collector, and fan?

Chris: Jeez…that’s a stumper. There is so very little that is not rewarding about what I do. I have an overabundance of riches that flow from all of these activities. Perhaps I’ve reached that point of being a ‘happy man’ since it would seem unwise to complain about any aspect of what I have and what I give.

I’m engaged with some of the most creative and generous people conceivable. Susan Archie being the Tops! It is an unquestionable honor to be allowed to present these quaint yet powerful collections to anyone who wants to listen and read them, and to engage in them fully.

One thing I really enjoy about the diversity of what Josh puts out via Tompkins Square is when I get turned onto a ‘hidden treasure’ that I did not know about. And the Lena album is one that I have been playing repeatedly since I got my hands on a copy.

I enjoyed how you described Lena being at a crossroads between some of the earliest 1920s recordings and the finger-picking and American ‘primitive’ guitar work from the 1960’s. Can you provide some formal context, as well as some your insights and opinions into this span of history of guitar playing and recordings where Lena exists for new listeners?

Chris: Well, I’m no expert of American ‘Primitive’ guitar, but I do know that the direct line between the pre-war American parlor-guitar masters such as Sam McGee, Sylvester Weaver, Bayless Rose, and Lemuel Turner. They informed the taste, repertoire, and style of John Fahey, John Renbourn, Jack Rose, Basho. All those guys. What was missing from the narrative was the 35 years between these two groups. Lena is that bridge, that crossroads as it were.

Lena is also an intriguing interesting artist in that she never recorded a 78 and only one album, but established herself through performances at fiddler conventions and folk festivals. She was well versed in fiddle, banjo, and guitar, playing and keeping this music alive.

Can you discuss some of her repertoire, specifically her use of specialized tunings and song selection?

Chris: Her two best examples, “Pearly Dew” and “Spanish Fandango,” use two reasonably archaic tunings, open D & open C (respectively) to express the melodies and give them the ‘air’ they need to breath. Either tune could have been played in standard tuning given the use of gapped standard chords but they would not have the resonance or sustain they have in these open tunings. Listening to her use these tunings is a lesson in taste, personality, and perhaps history.

The artwork and packaging for the record is just beautiful. As someone who has worked in a number of fine-crafted and carefully thought out releases, what was the goal for presenting Lena Hughes to a wider audience via album art, notes, and packaging?

Chris: Respect, humbling respect. Susan Archie is a deep artist and is capable of expressing the soul of others that are long gone.

What are you doing with these collections of yours and how do you see yourself?

Chris: I’m articulating that musical medicine and nourishment is good for me, and then offering it back to others. Sort of like a panacea to cure what ails us. I see my role as a midwife for these rare and sublime sounds.

I don’t really produce anything nor do I ‘curate’. I hear what is overwhelming to my senses and then narrate what is does for me and perhaps what it could do for others. I ultimately see myself as an auricular raconteur with an uncompromising belief in a discrete yet persistent euphonic panspermia.

What’s coming up next for you? Can you share any news of some of your upcoming projects?

Chris: I have three collections that are coming out very shortly. I put together a collection of pre-war guitar instrumentals for Tompkins Square called Imaginational Anthem Vol. 6The Roots Of American Primitive Guitar. I also re-mastered another collection for Tompkins Square of Charlie Poole’s Brunswick & Paramount Recordings, Charlie Poole & The Highlanders. Both of these are being released for Record Store Day of this year.

The third project, Five Days Married & Other Laments: Song & Dance From Northern Greece, 1928-1958, is a collection of otherworldly, deeply meditative and profoundly unhinged music from Southern Albania and Northern Greece. It continues in the same vein as my other collections that simultaneously explore certain music and a certain philosophical question. This is on Angry Mom Records, via my imprint How The Other Half Hears, and will be available April 30th of this year.

Also, I’m working on three projects for my imprint Long Gone Sound Series, for Tompkins Square. Two of these concern early pre-war Cajun music. One is a two-disc collection of songs by Joe & Cleoma Falcon and the Breaux Family, all recorded before 1941.

The other is called Let Me Play This For You, a collection of most of the surviving sides by Angelas LeJeune, Babineaux & Guidry, and Blind Uncle Gaspard. My friend Ron Brown wrote the notes and then we together supplied most of these vexingly rare, beautiful and, at times, profoundly sad records.

The third project is When I Reach That Heavenly Shore, a three-disc collection of pre-war black sanctified music that implies an eventual musical eschatology. All three of these projects for Tompkins Square will be released later.

A four CD box set called Beyond Rembetika: The Music & Dance of The Region Of Epirus, 1919-1958, will be released on May 6th of this year and features 96 tracks from 78 disc of material from Southern Albania/Northern Greece. This is on JSP Records. Commenting on this collection, my friend Crowmeat Bob said ‘It’ll blow the lid off this whole thing. ‘

I am re-mastering and overseeing the sonic care and aural presentation for two colossal box sets for Revenant Records/Third Man Records. They are the Rise Of Paramount Records and the Fall Of Paramount Records, and each set will contain upwards of 800 tracks of blues, jazz, hillbilly, sacred, ethnic, and dance music as recorded by and issued on the legendary Paramount label. The first volume will be issued later this year.

Finally, I’m sewing up the notes and polishing the sound on a collection of hypnotic and staggeringly powerful fiddle masterpieces by the Greek pre-war master, Alexis Zoumbas. This will be out in the fall on Angry Mom Records, on my How The Other Half Hears imprint.

What have you been listening to/ collecting lately that you have been most excited about?

Chris: Well, besides the obvious stingers that I can’t shake out of my head, I’ve been listening to a lot of 78s recorded ‘in the field,’ i.e., on portable disc and tape machines, of Southern Albanian and Northern Greek musicians from the 1940s to the 1970s. Even though this music is startling in its immediacy and purity, what really intrigues me is how unchanged the music is from the 1910s until right now!

So, we’re going to Northern Greece this summer to record some traditional clarinet, violin & laouto groups in Vitsa, and then next spring I’m going to Southern Albania to record a range of various Albanian groups. I am hoping that these field recordings can be blended with recordings from my 78 collection for a set in the future. Also been listening to a lot of ODB recently.