With New Double-Album, Nefesh Mountain Send Out ‘Beacons’ for Dark Times

It’s been a decade since Doni Zasloff and Eric Lindberg became musical and life partners, melding her background in musical theater and singer-songwriter music together with his blues, jazz, and banjo-picking roots. Now, with a new double album, Beacons, their band Nefesh Mountain dives deep into the myriad ways music can serve as a light in dark times.

The album’s eighteen tracks across two discs convey not only a ferocious command of numerous roots styles, but also a level of compassion and empathy lacking from so much topical music.

“We’re always trying to … walk that high wire between trying to provide an escape … and not neglect[ing] what’s so clearly happening day by day to all of us, as we watch the news and look at our phones and feel this fear and anger and depression,” says Lindberg. The news, he adds, has become “this thing that we can’t run from.”

For many artists on the folk/roots continuum, this desire to comment on the state of the world might mean focusing entirely on our current political leadership. For Nefesh Mountain, though, it means relating with their audience on an even more personal level than usual.

“That’s really part of our job, I think, as artists right now,” Lindberg says.

This echoes a message of “revolutionary love” that many other artists have gotten behind, courtesy of author Valerie Karr.

“Wonder is where love begins,” Karr wrote in her 2020 memoir, See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love. “When we choose to wonder about people we don’t know, when we imagine their lives and listen for their stories, we begin to expand the circle of who we see as part of us.”

This notion is what inspired Ani DiFranco’s 2021 album Revolutionary Love and seems to be echoed on Beacons, with Nefesh Mountain’s determination to weave radical love into their approach to progressive bluegrass and Americana music. Indeed, Beacons seems to strive toward illuminating our common humanity.

Granted, this mission of “radical love” began with the name Lindberg and Zasloff chose for their band in the first place. “Nefesh” is a Hebrew word denoting life force, the sentience that pervades all living things. Radical love requires as much vulnerable expression as it does being open to the array of scary, emotional, dark trepidation so many people have in common. Among the topics Lindberg and Zasloff breach on Beacons: coming clean about a history of substance use, discussing the hard truths around their seven-year fertility journey, and their shared determination to maintain a sense of wonder in a world that can feel relentlessly staid. (“If we’re looking for some heaven, babe/ There’s some right here on the ground,” Lindberg sings in “Heaven Is Here.”)

The first disc of Beacons features a deft exploration of the group’s Americana tones. Though Lindberg and Zasloff are from the Northeast, their Nashville connections and twang-centric improv skills deliver a set of songs that could play just fine on say WSM, the radio home of the Grand Ole Opry.

The set begins with “Race to Run” – a radio-friendly country song about overthinking the struggles of the creative life (“I’m tired of trying to stay out in front/ But you remind me … it’s your own race to run”). “What Kind of World” is a rumination on a sense so many folks share these days, of powerlessness in the face of climate change. (“Is it just me? Can you feel it too?”) But, the song’s lyrics extend into geopolitics and the sense of divide that leaves so many feeling unstable.

Asked about the song’s vulnerable and rather personal honesty, Lindberg notes: “Remember, it was a year and a half ago when the fires from Canada kind of made their way down. We live in the New York area … so the line in the song is, ‘I saw the golden hour at 11 a.m./ They say it’s from the fires, it’s not us or them.’

“Now, a year later or so,” he adds, linking last year’s fire headlines with those of 2025, this time in California. “We had to sing this in Orange County a few weeks back while they were [still seeing smoke].”

As Lindberg’s proverbial camera pans out, the song considers the role of the average citizen in the face of such behemoth powers as climate and politics. “What’s it all for if we’re not all free,” the lyrics ask, shifting from fear about climate disasters to a purpose of climate justice. This ability to move from complaint to action item in a single verse, all couched in infectious twang, is what sets Nefesh Mountain apart from many others in the country space.

The Americana disc’s finest moment, however, is “Mother,” a song written by Lindberg that addresses so many of motherhood’s side effects. “I’ve lived many lives,” Zasloff sings. “…It’s all part of the job as a mother.”

Zasloff notes that her first two children – from a previous relationship – were practically grown when she and Lindberg began trying for a child of their own. What ensued was a seven-year fertility process that echoes what so many women encounter when they discover becoming pregnant is not always as easy as it seems.

“I burst out crying when [Eric] first shared [‘Mother’] with me,” she says, “because it was so personal and so empowering and beautiful for my husband to write that about me.”

In addition to the way the song tackles their infertility journey, it also reckons with Zasloff’s history with alcohol – something she chose to leave behind in order to become a mother. “I decided in that moment of having that song come into the world,” she says, “that I was wanting to talk about something personal that I had never talked about publicly, ever. Which is the fact that I am sober. I’m an alcoholic and I just celebrated 20 years of sobriety. And I actually became sober to become a mother. It’s part of my whole story.”

Livin’ with that drink, Lord,
Always left me wanting more
But I was saved
When I became a mother

After that high point, the group moves into the traditional “Keep Your Lamp Trimmed and Burning,” which Lindberg notes has long been a part of their live show. “We’d always mess with the arrangement,” he says. “I kind of just called it in the studio. We had a little bit of extra time. I didn’t know it was going to be on the album, but it’s one that the band knew when we were down in Nashville and we kind of arranged it on the fly.”

“We’re all New York guys and jazz players,” he adds. “So we wanted to lean into that a little bit and bring this real Americana spiritual into a different sonic space, really let improvisation take over, and help that add to the obviously beautiful meaning of the song.”

Nine tracks in, Beacons switches to bluegrass, bringing in giants of the form to round out the band. Of course, anytime Sam Bush, Jerry Douglas, Stuart Duncan, Rob McCoury, Cody Kilby, and Mark Schatz come together in any room, the sound is bound to slap. Toss in Lindberg, whose pre-Nefesh background is jazz improvisation, and something truly special crops up.

“Regrets in the Rearview” opens this second disc, feeling like a bluegrass answer to the Americana set’s opener, “Race to Run.” Its instrumental section sets a high bar for the rest of the collection, as the band hands around lead duties, featuring some of the finest bluegrass instrumentals in the biz.

But it’s “This Is Me,” coming in at bluegrass track number three, that delivers one of the double album’s finest moments. Capitalizing on the band’s commitment to building connections and “radical love,” “This Is Me” tells the bluegrass side’s most personal story.

“A question that’s been thrown at us for years now, and especially to Eric,” says Zasloff, “is: How did a Jewish kid from Brooklyn get into bluegrass? … He came to me and he said, ‘I think I wrote a response song so that people will stop asking me that question.”

“I was thinking about it,” Lindberg says. “How did I get into bluegrass? [“This Is Me” is] more about if we’re lucky enough to find that thing that really makes us come alive and makes our soul kind of catch fire –whether it’s writing a song … or painting or sculpture or any trade anyone does. If that’s the thing, then it doesn’t matter, geographically, where we’re from.

“I’m of the belief, nowadays especially, with what we’re trying to do in the roots world, [that it’s important to] try to break down all the barriers,” he continues. No matter where people are from, he adds, “there are people that find this music and go, ‘Wow, that is lighting me up!'”

With that, Lindberg hearkens back to the title of the album. That music might be a light in dark times is, of course, no new concept. (Consider “This Little Light of Mine.”) But the fact that the idea has been floated before doesn’t mean it’s not worth mentioning. At a time when so many folks feel powerless to the onslaught of news and information coursing through the internet and the real world alike, it can be easy to feel like none of us are enough to meet the moment. But Beacons is a reminder that there is no darkness without light.

“No one knows how we become who we are,” Lindberg says, before offering a word of advice. “Everyone just be yourself –regardless of the questions you get or the pain or the hate that you see. You’ve just got to stay true.”


Photo Credit: Kelin Verrette & Rafael Roy   

WATCH: Jaime Wyatt Sees a “World Worth Keeping”

We kissed the ring from the billionaire’s sleeve, yeah/
We let ‘em poison the roots/
I’d like my people and yours to see/
All of the earth in its bloom…”

Alt-country singer-songwriter Jaime Wyatt has announced her upcoming album, Feel Good, to be released on November 3 on New West Records, with a fiery lead single, “World Worth Keeping,” and its accompanying video. The track, though overarchingly optimistic and forward-looking, features Wyatt’s booming country croon dripping both with righteous anger and a passionate love for the Earth. The content here is more than apropos for a summer of striking, of record-setting ocean and air temperatures, and of ongoing natural disasters like wildfires, tornadoes, and torrential downpours. Wyatt’s particular brand of queer alt-country is perfectly poised to tackle issues such as these and to offer an imagination of the future that isn’t just despairing and defeatist. Like Iris Dement on “Workin’ on a World,” Wyatt chooses to see a redeemable planet, instead of a lost cause, utilizing hope not as a privileged denial of the stark realities of our everyday, but as a radical act of resistance – resistance queer folks engage in perpetually, within or without hope.

Feel Good was produced by Black Pumas‘ Adrian Quesada and builds on Wyatt’s rhinestoned and glamorous Western-informed Americana sounds, folding in R&B, country soul, and so many more roots influences. There’s a confidence and ease Wyatt continues to grow into following her critically-acclaimed prior albums. “A lot of us grow up feeling like we have to hide who we are just to be accepted, but that comes from a place of fear and judgment,” Wyatt explains via press release. “I wrote these songs as a way of letting go of all that, as permission to feel good.”


Photo Credit: Jody Domingue

WATCH: Old Crow Medicine Show, “Used to Be a Mountain”

Artist: Old Crow Medicine Show
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “Used to Be a Mountain”
Album: Paint This Town
Release Date: April 22, 2022
Label: ATO Records

In Their Words: “I’ve been playing Appalachian music in Appalachia since I was a kid. West Virginia, Kentucky, Southwest Virginia, and East Tennessee are the places I love to play most. When you saw a fiddle in these settings it always feels like a homecoming. But time has dealt a hard hand to the region that gave birth to country music, and ‘Used to Be a Mountain’ is a song that wrestles with the issues facing Appalachia today. I think that the intrepid spirit of the mountaineers of the coal fields of the Southern Highlands and Appalachia are some of the hardest and most important fore-bearers of the American dream. I think that when you take away the natural beauty and destroy the ecology of places, you don’t have a whole lot left to rebuild with. I know there’s a lot of folks that are hurting right now in the communities of the coal fields. This song is there to both reflect that hurt and to ask the question, can we do something better for these folks? Can we do something better for these mountains, these hills, the flora and fauna, for anybody who wants to breathe clean air and drink clean water in Appalachia?” — Ketch Secor, Old Crow Medicine Show

Editor’s Note: Along with the video, the band has partnered with Cumberland River Compact, a non-profit organization dedicated to enhancing water resources through education and cooperation. The partnership serves to bring awareness to the effects of climate change, connecting fans with ways to get involved in the local climate movement through local action.


Photo Credit: Kit Wood (L-R: Morgan Jahnig, Mason Via, Ketch Secor, Jerry Pentecost, Cory Younts, Mike Harris)

Basic Folk – Tatiana Hargreaves

When Tatiana Hargreaves was younger, she was a shit-hot fiddle player; recording her debut album at age 14, a first prize winner at the Clifftop Appalachian Stringband Festival Fiddle Contest that same year and gaining all sorts of accolades before even graduating high school. After some thought, she went after a degree in ethnomusicology and performance at Hampshire College in Amherst, MA, where she continued to play fiddle like a maniac. Her time in college allowed her to reconnect with her friend, the equally impressive banjo player, Allison de Groot. She reflects on one summer where she and Allison kept finding each other and jamming at various events and festivals. They decided to record their debut album and tour. The duo are back again with the new record Hurricane Clarice, using traditional stringband music as a way to interpret our uncertain times.

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Our conversation leads into topics like the negative impact of music as competition. Tati has spoken before of her experience competing on the Texas Fiddle circuit that’s pretty popular on the West Coast. Also, after college, she moved to Durham, NC, to be closer to and work with old-time legend Alice Gerrard. Since 2017, she’s been soaking up Alice’s influence and knowledge through being her fiddle player and digitizing her old photos. This has led to a vast amount of inspiration, from recording songs on the new record that Alice had introduced to her to going back to school to study library science. I am fascinated by this person and her work. Tatiana keeps it close to the chest, but I’m grateful for what she shared in conversation.


Photo Credit: Tasha Miller

LISTEN: Thomas Cassell, “New November”

Artist: Thomas Cassell
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “New November”

In Their Words: “When Tim Stafford showed me this song several years ago, I knew that I wanted to record it. Things didn’t line up then, but I was elated to release it as a single following. The writers (Stafford and Graham Sharp) penned an excellent modern bluegrass song about climate change. Particularly, it excites me to present this very modern and important topic through something as old and familiar as bluegrass music, and I hope that will communicate the issue to some folks that may not hear about or consider it otherwise. ‘New November’ is the second single from an upcoming release, TBA. Joining me on the track are Dale Ann Bradley and Dan Boner on vocals, Tim Stafford on guitar, Julian Pinelli on fiddle, Jacob Metz on dobro, and Vince Ilagan on bass.” — Thomas Cassell


Photo Credit: Ben Bateson

Sam Lee’s Garden Grows Songs and Fights Climate Change

A lush, resplendent, living and breathing album, Sam Lee’s brand new record, Old Wow, is something of a garden — and not simply because the opening track, “The Garden of England/Seeds of Love” sets such a tone. In this arboretum, Lee is collecting the most rare and fragile of cultivars — ancient folk songs. He is carefully tending them, gently fertilizing, grafting, hybridizing, and cross-pollinating them with bits of himself, bits of this global moment, and bits of this generation.

BGS contributor Justin Hiltner strolled down New Orleans’ Canal Street with Lee during Folk Alliance International to find a secluded, sunshine-y balcony for a chat about action, queerness, folk traditions, fatherhood, and much more.

My first experience with the new record was the video for “The Garden of England.” It felt so lush and verdant, it immediately made me think of your relationship with nature and the ecosystems you operate in, as well as your environmental activism. How strong of a presence do you think that part of your life — the activism, especially the environmental aspects — carries through the album? It’s visible in a lot of places overtly, but there’s an undercurrent in there, too. 

It’s funny, you use all of the words that I use, “How overt/covert” or “how implicit/explicit it should be.” Since the previous album I’ve gone through a very different journey of who I am, what I am meant to be doing, and why I’m doing music. I’ve come to the acceptance that actually, first and foremost, I’m an activist, not a musician. Music is the medium through which I disseminate, articulate my activism and my beliefs within that.

I’m very thrilled that I can do it in a way that is emotionally guided, as opposed to having to be statistically informed, or having the best persuasive political argument, which I’m terrible at. Through the mediums of song, ancient song, song that’s connected to the land by nature of its ancestry, I found I’ve got these really unusual resources and tools.

Something I like to ask musicians a lot is, how do we make this music relevant? How do we show people it’s not just throwback music or time capsule music? What I heard you describing is that you’ve found a relevance in these old songs for this current moment in geological time, due to the climate crisis, but also socially and politically. 

It is that, but I say it’s more about the essence of the songs. … I’m playing with tradition, but there’s a certain distillation process that I’m using within them, which like any distillation process is also highly adulterative and adaptive. I’m contorting them, but I’m also working with an unusual aesthetic, because that’s all we can do, be artists. I’m taking risks.

Like, with videos like [“The Garden of England”] and the one that’s just come out last week for “Lay This Body Down.” I’m going to use mainstream values and imagery and concept on some deeply ancient ideas in a way that doesn’t really happen very much.  And I’m not saying that’s because I’m pioneering! [Laughs]

I think it’s a vital thing to have to address, how does one tell these stories in ways that are going to be digestible by a new audience? One that actually would never encounter the tradition, in certain ways, because in the UK we live in a very musically segregated society. Most people aren’t thinking about music or that music can change identity, especially on such an ancient level. I’m having to test these things out.

Roots music and eroticism don’t really feel like they go together. “Lay This Body Down” feels so timeless and ancient, but the video for it has this level of eroticism and sensuality that feels current. I may be projecting my own queerness onto it, but I wanted to ask you how much of that eroticism comes from your queerness, or doesn’t it? 

You know, you might be the first person to ask me these questions. Generally music journalists where I come from are uninterested in that, or the ones that are wouldn’t come across me.

I didn’t approach it from a sense of wanting to work with queerness, I love working with dance. I come from a dance background 

And dance is very queer as is. 

It is, but why does it have to be? Because the irony is, and it shouldn’t make any difference, that all the dancers in that video are heterosexual. That doesn’t matter, but it was so wonderful working with men who were actually very comfortable with their heterosexuality, but also in their intimacy and physicality and their sense of body contact. Working and being in that space was so energizing. It wasn’t erotic, it was simply sensual. The funny thing is it comes across as erotic, as homoerotic, but in all honesty I think that’s the viewer’s perception.

 Maybe what I mean by “the video feels queer” or “dance itself is queer” is more accurately, “It leaves the door open for non-normative ideas and feelings.” Is that what you mean? The viewer can sense this because you left a crack open in the door of normativity for people to step through?

You’re absolutely right, and I’m very conscious of that. There’s a very Caravaggio-ness to this film. You couldn’t put any more arrows pointing [toward eroticism and homoeroticism.] I’m also fascinated with the queerness of folk song, particularly in the ambiguity when men are singing from the perspective of women and all those sort of rule-breaking things that were never rules in the first place.

I think it’s only the conservatism, in the sense of boxing what “is” and what “isn’t,” that binary-ness, that starts to do that. When you actually go back into history, those sorts of boundaries [weren’t as present], and I think that’s what I’m celebrating a little bit.

It’s a song about death, actually. These aren’t sexual beings, they’re mortal or immortal or transitionary. Their nakedness is as much about that shedding of materiality of the living and this idea of the trajectory from one realm to the other. They’re all expressions of myself… That’s what these movements are all about, for me.

 That sort of ambiguity you mention, “Sweet Sixteen” felt to me like it was pulling from that tradition — am I reading too much into that? Where did that song come from?

Interesting. It’s not [from that], in fact, for me it’s the most heterosexual moment of my entire career, that song. [Laughs]

Interesting! And right, I heard heterosexuality in it, but also — and again, perhaps this is my projection — more than that, too. 

This is the funny thing about making music, once you’ve put [the songs] out, you don’t own them anymore. They’re not yours. And never would I ever want to make music that was utterly explicit.

The song was a really hard one to choose to do and I don’t know why I did choose to do it. It’s actually more about me being a parent, because I’ve become a dad. In many ways I’m living in a heteronormative set up, even though it is unusual. We’re not together and we don’t live together and we never have, but the itinerant-ness of being a musician and leaving mum doing most of the care requires a little bit of me acknowledging that, through song.

This is my acceptance that I am a bit of that, packing my bag and heading off, away from the family set up. It also holds a little bit of my judgment upon that nuclear family thing, of husband and wife and child at home, and my terror of that. Which, I think has nothing to do with being gay. I think if I was straight I’d probably feel like that, too. [Laughs] It’s very much me trying to channel what a baby’s mother is thinking.

You carry on this tradition of folk singing unencumbered by music, a capella, but that to me, as someone who is a singer and musician, is kind of terrifying. The space that you play with, as a vocalist, on this record feels so vulnerable. What does it feel like to you?

I think I’m quite comfortable with vulnerability. Which is sort of a paradox, in a way, because the point of vulnerability is that it is uncomfortable. I think that space of exposure, for me, is a very exciting place. It’s not exciting because I get to see myself more, it’s because by being vulnerable you have to step outside the realm of protection, of comfort, of security. In that position you can do much more interesting things, finding perspective and placement and by that, a relationality to the world around you.

[Sometimes] you have to be an outsider, and that’s something that, by nature of who I am — by being gay, by being Jewish, by being the kid that never quite fit into any of the places that I was I’ve always been in that position. It’s a place I’ve always been drawn to, most artists are like that one way or another. I’m not particularly exceptional, I’m not saying I’m necessarily special, but that’s something that I’ve certainly been accustomed to.

When it comes carrying on the tradition, I did exactly the same. I went down the deepest root of folk music, but never went fully into those folk scenes. I was always an outsider in the folk world. I was always an outsider in these deep traditions, I was never part of the communities that I’m learning from. Yet, at the same time, you find yourself weirdly in the center of these places as well. This idea of, there is no center and there is no outside. Actually, these are all constructs only in our minds and we are all outsiders in the end.

When it comes to the music — and it’s funny, because I didn’t mix the album, though I was very involved in it — when [producer] Bernard Butler did that we were very aware of keeping the voice up front and center. Maybe there’s a little bit of ego and selfishness that he’s recognizing. That, as a singer, you need to be center. You are your voice. Not because I want to be up front, but maybe because I’m very clear about what I want to say in this record, so I think I have to mark my place in that respect.


Photo credit: Julio Juan

LISTEN: Jesse Terry & Alex Wong, “Landfall”

Artists: Jesse Terry & Alex Wong
Hometown: Stonington, Connecticut (Jesse); Nashville, TN (Alex)
Song: “Landfall”
Album: Kivalina
Release Date: June 14, 2019 (single); September 2019 (Kivalina EP)

In Their Words: “When we set out to tell this story, we wanted people who listened to the album from beginning to end to feel like they were watching a movie… and we wanted ‘Landfall’ to feel like our establishing shot… As a song, it’s a birds eye view of our own introduction to the story of the village of Kivalina and how climate change was affecting so many in their situation. The chorus came out of our own ignorance of the scope of the issue… who would believe such a crazy thing could be happening right now?” — Alex Wong


Photo credit: Jess Terry

A Radical Spirit: A Conversation with Filmmaker Josh Fox

Any which way you slice it, the world is currently at a critical juncture. Environmentally, politically, socially, economically, and otherwise, the systems we have built have long been crumbling with people — and the planet — beginning to slip through the cracks. Documentary filmmaker Josh Fox has told one of those stories in great detail with his two heartbreaking (and infuriating) Gasland movies which focus on natural gas fracking and its dire, if not deadly, repercussions.

In his new film, How to Let Go of the World and Love All the Things Climate Can't Change, which premieres on HBO on June 27, Fox focuses his lens on the people who are coming together to fight against seemingly insurmountable odds in South America, Asia, Africa, the South Pacific, and elsewhere. The project lays it all out in gut-wrenchingly stark relief, while making sure to leave its audience with just enough hope to keep fighting the good fight … and dancing the good dance.

There are so many aspects to this film and the issues it presents that I want to discuss. Let's start with the fact that continuing to put short-term economic concerns ahead of long-term sustainability problems just doesn't work. And the presumptive nominations of Clinton and Trump feed right into that, don't they?

I don't want to talk about it morally … Well, I mean, you could. It's immoral. Hillary Clinton's policies are pro-fracking, all the day long. You quite simply can't be pro-fracking and be a climate change activist or even a person who is trying to address climate change. So the big issue is not, necessarily, morality … although there is a lot in that campaign that is immoral — voting for the Iraq War, supporting the crime bill that put millions of people in prison unjustly, and galavanting around with the fossil fuel industry at every possible turn. Hillary Clinton, in her State Department, there were conflicts of interest on Keystone XL pipeline. She went around the world selling fracking with the Global Shale Gas Initiative.

What concerns me, right now, is not that the American public has rejected that … Actually, the American public has rejected that. If you look at every primary that has an open primary — Independents plus Democrats — Bernie Sanders wins. What's happened is, these political parties have become country clubs that isolate themselves from reality. The problem is, right now, that the Democrats have pushed so many people out of the dialogue, that they're threatening to become a minority party.

Agreed.

But what's exciting to me is that this idea of non-violent political revolution and all the things that Bernie Sanders stands for have become the winning political argument in America, even if it means that they have to do all these shenanigans to exclude him from the process.

Yeah. Yeah. Even with all of that, and the people on the other side shouting “down with government,” it still feels like a lot of folks have the mindset that government or someone will swoop in, eventually, and solve it all for us?

Solve climate change?

Yeah. Like some technology is going to emerge.

There really isn't any solving climate change.

I know that, but …

There is only working on climate change in the same way that there's no solving the human condition — there's only working on it. We do have to radically change our energy systems. We have to radically change all our systems that are emitting a lot of CO2. That includes our food system, transportation system. We probably also have to radically alter our political system, because it's our political system that enables those industries to dump carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere.

But this film isn't about causes of climate change. It's about what we do as we react to climate change. Human beings can make climate change a lot worse or we can make our lives much better. Our current system, as Tim DeChristopher says in the movie, is based on greed and competition. To that, I would add violence and institutionalized racism and social inequality — the worst elements of our nature. If we want to get through the climate calamity that's coming, with any human dignity, we need to change our value system to more sustainable virtues — courage, resilience, community, human rights, love. These are the things we have to start to look to, so that's what the film focuses on. These are the things that climate can't change.

Right.

If you think about the old saw, “You can't control what happens to you; you can only control how you react to it,” that's part of this issue. We absolutely must control energy systems. I'm not preaching that we don't fight climate change. I'm saying we fight it harder than ever before based on current information about where we are right now. What does that mean? That means that we find a revolutionary set of principles to guide us.

For example, in Hurricane Katrina, when all the people in New Orleans were told to go across the bridge — the poor people, the Black people, the people from the inner city … “Go across the bridge. Get to safety. Your city's under water.” They went across the bridge to the suburbs only to be met by the racist white shotguns of the police force telling them to go back and drown. That was not, at that point, a climate change problem. When those police were there, that was a human problem. That was a breakdown of civil rights, a breakdown of American values. If we're not going to make climate change worse, we have to work a little bit on justice.

Both the DeChristopher part, which hit me hard, and the quote from the Zambian teen's notebook — “Freedom is meaningless, if there's poverty” — those two sections spoke to each other, for me. Renewable energy, as vastly important as that is … unless we curb the consumerism that demands so many petroleum-based products, it's all but meaningless.

I don't know if it's just about consumerism. I think it has to do with … I'll quote Tim again: “We can not solve our emotional problems with material needs.” We've been trying that. The film is saying that there's a radical politics of the spirit, as well as a radical politics at the ballot box. And it does some work to that issue.

The idea of the moral imagination … redefining success by folding some humanity into it rather than running on pure ambition …

Yeah, yeah.

I think of companies like Patagonia that have proved it is possible, at the corporate level, to do good and do well. Why is that the exception rather than the rule?

This is a creative situation. Our laws have been created to make corporations more immoral, to make sure there absolutely aren't any regulations or restrictions on what they do and how they operate. When industry says, “That will drive up costs!” all the politicians jump and try to make it as cheap as possible to do their business. We have to start thinking in different ways.

And, yeah, there are a couple of corporations that might think about sustainable virtues. But, to be honest, we're going to be impacting the planet. And we've impacted the planet. I'll go back to the virtues again: The biggest problem right now is not that there's social and economic inequality. The biggest problem is that we have social and economic inequality to the point that our system caters to draining wealth to the top and giving everybody else nothing. That situation of unfairness and oligarchy has everybody scrambling and that destroys the other human systems — health, the environment, education — so we don't make correct decisions.

That quote in the notebook of the kid — “Freedom is meaningless, if there's poverty” — I think what that means is, if you have no food, if you don't have a clean environment, if you're living in a situation that's difficult and dangerous, there is no freedom possible in that atmosphere. If we look at the social stratification right now — the violence of fracking, the violence that is inherent in this system — that is an act that deprives people of freedom in its own way.

I've long said, until we solve economic justice, those people can't care about the environment or civil rights or anything else. They are just trying to survive.

Well, they do care about it and they work on it.

Some of them, yes, absolutely.

Actually, I've seen an enormous amount of progress. Right now, we are in a place where there's a rising tide of movements worldwide — anti-fracking movement, climate change movement, the movement for LGBTQ rights, Occupy. There's a lot changing. The movement to create renewable energy. The movement to elect Bernie Sanders. I could go on and on. The movement for Native American rights. Black Lives Matter. These are responding to where we're at right now because things are so bad, in terms of the control that people have over their lives has diminished in the face of this economic, political, social, and environmental injustice and inequality.

At the same time, that means people are participating more — are awake more — and we stand a chance of pushing our agenda more. Of course, it seems like, no matter what we do, there's going to be some kind of manipulation of the very electoral system that changes these things at the government level. And that's an increasingly corrupt and complex system defending itself in increasingly corrupt and complex ways. We have to expect that, for us to be stronger than them.

If we had followed Jimmy Carter's lead 40 years ago, where do you think we'd be right now?

I don't know if it's possible to speculate. I do think, obviously, yes: Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House. Jimmy Carter emphasized sustainability and conservation. If we'd followed those principles, then I think we'd be in much better shape because the United States has a huge impact on what happens worldwide, so there's no question.

But I fear that your question comes from nostalgia and regret, which is inactive, rather than looking at what we've got, right now, in front of us. Let's be honest: If Jimmy Carter were running for president right now, he wouldn't win.

No. He wouldn't.

Because the times have changed. And Jimmy Carter, who's an incredible figure in American history that we can look to who I loved and who I think is incredibly inspiring and amazing so we have to pay homage, but we should be listening to him now! You know what Jimmy Carter's saying now? He's saying the whole system is broken and out of control and makes no sense!

And the truth is, we have allowed that to be what we make America and we're fighting back against it, trying to address the entire system. I've never seen a campaign that did that better than Bernie Sanders by talking about this idea of the political revolution. And I think that Bernie Sanders' political philosophy has won the day. If you look at the elections where the most people vote — the biggest section of the American electorate, Independents plus Democrats — he wins every time. That means that Bernie Sanders' political philosophy, which is far more energized and active than Jimmy Carter ever was when he was in the White House, we're in a time right now where actually Americans know what's up and know what we should do. If we could only have the political system address that, then I think we would see a lot of change.

Seeing as this is the Bluegrass Situation, I would be remiss to not mention how your banjo saved your ass twice over in China.

[Laughs] More than twice! If the banjo wasn't in the first movie, Gasland, I don't think it would have been nearly as popular. There's something about that instrument that changes the air and changes the conversation. I think it's because it's impossible — or, rather, a bad idea — to take it too seriously. [Laughs] You take it too seriously, then people start to think of you as a weirdo.

The banjo playing in this movie is in the tradition of Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie, which is pretty simple, mostly clawhammer style. It makes you really happy. It's a great traveling companion.

What do you mean two times? What was the first time?

In China, hiding the footage inside it, but also busting it out at that diner.

Oh, yeah yeah yeah.

But it's not just the banjo, right? That's just one little piece of it. It is the whole tradition of music and culture and folk activism that I'm invoking there. It's not just an instrument for a song. It's the fact that we have this really rich tradition in the United States of combining music, art, and culture. And we need that in the climate space, as well.

And so do all the people around the world. They have those same traditions, just their own takes on it.

Yes! And that's in the film, as well. But you know, I think, for whatever reason — and I don't know the reason — I think climate change activism has had less organic art and culture come out of it than, for example, the civil rights movement or a lot of the other movements that we think about as very important movements. And I think that that's too bad.

And I think that I'm doing my small part to try and change that by bringing the banjo and by the music in the film. I have music in this film from every tradition … from the Beatles to Radiohead to Tune-Yards to John Coltrane to classical music to noise music … it's an incredible musical journey you take with this movie.