Chris Smither has been Peter Mulvey’s mentor since back in 1993, when a young Mulvey opened for the already seasoned Smither. The blues and folk legend liked what he heard and enjoyed their similarities in creativity and quirks; he took that young man on the road with him. Their musical partnership has survived the digital age, the pandemic, parenthood, and the indictment of a former president. Along the way each has worked to influence their best habits and life lessons on the other. As far as mentor-mentee relationships go, this one is for the history books.
In this rare joint interview on Basic Folk, we address the important questions: Why do they delight in calling each other by their last names? Smither shares that he was first called by his last name in Paris when he was in school. The two debate who has the better hometown, Milwaukee or New Orleans. Actually, it’s not so much a debate as a reflection on New Orleans music, since that is clearly the better spot to grow up as a musician.
Mulvey reflects on their musical differences, citing some of his main inspirations to be Kendrick Lamar and Ani DiFranco, versus Smither’s affinity for Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan. There are nods to David “Goody” Goodrich, Jeffrey Foucault, Kris Delmhorst and the woman behind it all, Carol Young (AKA Smither’s long-time manager, AKA his wife). We break down how each feels about fatherhood and try to get Smither to spill his secret to longevity. Spoiler alert: It’s not from remaining still.
Smither’s 20th album, All About the Bones, is out now. Peter Mulvey’s latest is the acoustic retrospective, More Notes From Elsewhere.
Photo Credit: Chris Smither by Jo Chattman; Peter Mulvey by Paul Reitano.
Singer-songwriter and instrumentalist Carl “Buffalo” Nichols loves and treasures the blues, but he acknowledges that his vision of what the music can and should do differs greatly from that of many performers he’s met in the field. Indeed, Nichols, whose brilliant new LP, The Fatalist – his second for Fat Possum, which dropped September 15 – doesn’t mince words when he discusses the issues he faces and the things he wants to see change in regards to the music, as well as attitudes held by many in positions of authority in regards to its promotion and distribution.
“I tell folks I’m a songwriter initially, because when you say you’re a blues musician, then there’s a whole bunch of stereotyped impressions that you’ve got to get beyond,” Nichols said during a lengthy recent phone interview with BGS. “There was a period there a couple of years ago, right after George Floyd, where for a time there was this sense, or at least it was being said, that the blues community needed to change, we needed to diversify, to become more relevant and reflective of things happening in America. But now that seems to have passed, and we’re back to the same old thing. There’s too much conservatism among the older crowd, who often are in control of the blues radio stations and who are responsible for why the music isn’t more widely heard and accepted. And there’s too many artists just putting the same stuff out there.”
Nichols is among a growing number of African American artists anxious to smash idiomatic barriers regarding not just blues, but American music, period. He is a master at carefully paying attention to traditional values like keen storytelling, soulful delivery and expressive lyrics, while also utilizing contemporary elements and devices. The Fatalist includes a stunning cover of Blind Willie Johnson’s majestic “You’re Gonna Need Somebody On Your Bond.” The LP’s first single, Nichols’ robust baritone soars through the message of salvation with vigor, driving home both its urgent intensity and evocative theme. However, Nichols also says the song epitomizes another part of the dilemma he faces regarding broadening the blues’ appeal.
“That one kind of gets caught in a double trap,” Nichols continued. “On the one hand, you’ve got religious lyrics, then on the other you’ve got the blues sensibility. So, while the traditionalists who know Blind Willie Johnson love it, it has a hard time getting past the gatekeepers, because it also has some contemporary production touches. That’s kind of the double struggle you face. You’ve got the white traditionalist and conservative types who are dominating the blues marketplace, then when you’re trying to reach the Black audience, you’ve got what they call the ‘urban contemporary market.’ Because it’s blues they won’t play it.”
Still, Nichols is making some headway on the scene, both critically and in terms of gaining followers. He says he’s seeing a lot more young folks in his audience, as well as more Black fans. Though his appeal and notoriety don’t yet match that of a Christone “Kingfish” Ingram or a Shemekia Copeland, Nichols is steadily gaining more attention and acclaim. He opened several dates last year for Valerie June, another marvelous Black performer whose music incorporates classic and current sounds. He stands prominently alongside other rising blues stars like Gary Clark Jr., Marquise Knox and Eric Gales. The Fatalist reflects the vision and scope of a 30-something performer whose background includes at various times being in a grindcore band (Concrete Horizon), and playing folk and Americana, while also being part of a duo in Milwaukee (Nickel & Rose) with bassist Johanna Rose. His disenchantment with an Americana scene he considered overwhelmingly white and less than encouraging to his artistic vision led him to Fat Possum.
“I really felt it was important at this stage to have a label behind me,” Nichols said in response to a question about why he chose to sign with Fat Possum. “While it’s not the type of thing where we’re sitting down and trying to pick songs for radio, it is a thing where they’ve been very supportive and encouraging. They’ve provided me a place and a forum for what I want to do, and they appreciate my vision and are doing all they can to help me.”
The Mississippi-based label was once widely celebrated for its championing of hill country blues greats R.L. Burnside and Junior Kimbrough, but in recent years had drifted far away from that model. Buffalo Nichols, his debut release, was the company’s first blues outing in two decades. It set the stage for The Fatalist, whose eight songs reveal a strong songwriting focus Nichols says is indicative of both personal growth and his desire to use the blues form to do more than rip through scales and display great individual musicianship. “I’ve been a guitarist for 20 years, but it’s really only been the last 10 that I think I’ve really grown as a songwriter,” he continued. “Being able to express myself is a challenge, and using the blues to do it is what drives me.”
There’s no question that The Fatalist doesn’t necessarily adhere to the standard blues formula, and that’s setting aside the presence of drum machine tracks and enhanced sonic quality. Its song sequencing and overall lyrical flow are edgy and compelling.
Standout cuts like “Love Is All” or “The Difference” offer contrasting views of a relationship. The former is optimism grounded in the wisdom of admitting that even good guys can go astray, while the latter spotlights a breakup that doesn’t so much place blame as document the painful end of something that was once glorious. There’s also the hard-hitting opening number “Cold Black Stare,” and the triumphant finale, “This Moment,” that features special guest vocalist Samantha Rose. The album has a sonic clarity and power that puts it in a league with anything done at a state-of-the-art studio in Nashville, LA, or New York, yet it was recorded in Nichols’ home – and he produced it. The decision to cut it there is also part of a larger career change that Nichols made last year, when he moved back to Milwaukee after spending years in Austin.
“In some ways it’s harder for me now being back home,” Nichols said. “But in other ways it’s good, because now I have to do it myself. I don’t have the machinery or the apparatus or the surroundings that I would have in Nashville or Austin or LA. It’s like it was when I was growing up. I’m being responsible for my own music now, and that’s a good thing creatively, even if from a business aspect sometimes there’s a struggle.”
Buffalo Nichols is now in the midst of an extensive tour, with the American portion running through mid-December, then a European leg beginning in early January and continuing through mid-February (for now). While being adamant about not setting goals, Nichols says he definitely has things he wants to accomplish career-wise.
“For me, I always want to look ahead, I want to progress as a songwriter and a guitarist,” Nichols concluded. “I don’t ever want to make the same music over and over. I don’t want to be predictable. I want to contribute something original, something that when I’m gone people will look back and say that this was something fresh and inventive that Buffalo Nichols made.”
Milwaukee singer-songwriter Buffalo Nichols returns to Basic Folk today to talk about his new album, The Fatalist, out this September from Fat Possum Records. We picked up where Nichols’ debut album left off, traveling the world hot on the heels of the blues. Following a profound tradition can be just as frustrating as it is romantic. In his years on the road promoting his self-titled debut album, Carl aka Buffalo has witnessed how the blues can be a home base for listeners’ nostalgic, back-in-the-good-old days, artistically stagnant, patriarchal tendencies. He wants none of it. The Fatalist is an offering to the gods of change, of self-awareness, of integrity.
One of the major achievements of this collection of eight songs is the seemingly effortless sonic collage that comes second nature to hip hop but is less discussed in roots and Americana. From a Charley Patton sample to “Ali Farka” Touré-influenced fingerpicking to tasty 808s to contemporary songwriting that wrestles with what it means to be a good man in 2023, The Fatalist tells a story about the present, while keeping the past close and eschewing sentimentality. This sense of being in conversation with storytellers of the past is a pillar of what I would call the Black Art Tradition, and it is part of what makes Buffalo Nichols one of the most exciting artists in blues music right now.
Artist:Listening Party Hometown: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Album:Been a Long Time Comin’ Release Date: August 25, 2023
In Their Words: “Been a Long Time Comin’ is a collection of experiences and stories gathered over the last five years that have been immersed in the styles of folk, Americana and country. Representing the people, the places and the roads traveled, the songs display our personal growth as we entered our 30s and had to start confronting some of the hurdles that life tossed our way. The goal was to approach a few of these issues with a light-hearted storytelling voice so they didn’t have to seem so daunting, while hopefully leaving some room for the listener to feel hope and redemption. We did our best to acknowledge life’s trials, but also celebrate the positivity that the long journey has to offer. For us, Been a Long Time Comin’ will always be a polaroid of a time in our lives when we relied and leaned on each other to get by.” – Listening Party
Artist:Trapper Schoepp Hometown: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Song: “Secrets of the Breeze” Album:Siren Songs Release Date: April 21, 2023 Label: Grand Phony (US) / Rootsy (EU)
In Their Words: “During the height of the pandemic, I began paddle boarding obsessively on Lake Michigan. My friends and I would explore this Great Lake into the winter months, passing by ancient shipwrecks, floating icebergs and Wisconsin wildlife. It became an instant refuge, filling me with a sense of wonder I hadn’t felt since childhood. One December day, a strong gust of wind threw me off my paddle board into a pile of boulders onshore. I ended up in the ER with an injured foot and renewed sense of respect for Mother Nature and its many mysteries.
“It started as a pipe dream to get Irish dancers for this video but my brother Tanner noticed a dance school not far from his place in Milwaukee. … So I cold called ‘em and to my surprise, the owner of the Irish Dance School, Elyse Transon, said she’d choreograph the song for her classes. The setting was important, too. I’m fortunate to have a friend, Rory Modlinski, at the Irish Cultural Center in Milwaukee, which dates back to the late 1800s. It is a gorgeous and haunted space filled with Irish spirits. In the last few years, I fell hard for Irish music. From the Clancy Brothers, Pogues, Chieftains, Cranberries and everything in between. I found an uplifting quality in this tradition. It can break your heart and make you laugh at the same time. I hope some of that made its way into this song.” — Trapper Schoepp
Artist:Chicken Wire Empire Hometown: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Song: “Friend of the Devil” Album:Verry Garcia EP Release Date: March 10, 2023
In Their Words: “The Midwest brings people to bluegrass from a variety of different angles, and we found that the Grateful Dead was a bridge between the different creative roads that ultimately brought our group together. David Grisman’s iconic descending mandolin riff at the top of the Dead’s 1970 recording ‘Friend of the Devil’ is a shining example of the way bluegrass music influenced the band’s sound. The riff is a theme that reminded us of the fiddle tune ‘Whiskey Before Breakfast,’ so we weaved a full pass of the tune into our cover to further explore that bridge between traditional roots music and the sound of the Grateful Dead.” — Carter Shilts, Chicken Wire Empire
WHOA! SistaStrings is the real life sister duo of Monique (cello) and Chauntee (violin) Ross. Currently tearing it up on the road with Brandi Carlile and Allison Russell, The Ross sisters’ musical roots began with their intense classical training, family gatherings and in church. All five of their siblings played music, toured around with their minister parents and even had their own family band, Sisters of Praize, with older sisters Charice Ross on violin and Rickena Johnson on viola. After Chauntee was done with college, she and Monique teamed up again and ventured out in the Milwaukee music scene where they cut their teeth and tried their hand at all sorts of different styles: hip-hop, jam bands, electronic music and singer-songwriters. There, they met a kindred spirit in Peter Mulvey, who they started performing with in 2016.
SistaStrings officially made the move to Nashville in the summer of 2021. Once there, they started playing gigs with Allison Russell. Monique’s encounter with Brandi Carlile at Newport Folk Fest led them to both touring with her band. In our conversation, Lizzie and Cindy talk to Monique and Chauntee about being romantic string players thanks to their classical background, which also gave them very thick skin. They also talk about the decision to pursue a musical path into the folk and Americana world, which is a notoriously white space. Spoiler alert: it wasn’t an easy decision, but it’s one they have not come to regret.
Milwaukee-born Peter Mulvey has, along with classical duo SistaStrings, made an anti-fascist record. According to Peter, “to make an anti–fascist record, you must keep kindness and compassion in the foreground.” Love is the Only Thing goes from family, to politics, to family, to racism and back to family. It’s as optimistic and introspective as it is filled with “running out of a burning building” type of songs. All the while, Peter is joined by powerful, thoughtful and extremely talented musicians in Monique and Chauntee Ross.
Lots has happened in Peter’s life since his last album. He originated himself in New England, fell in love and got married, a pandemic, and he’s become a father. All these eek their way into the songs on the new album. Particularly poignant is his co-write with his partner, the song about their possible future as parents (good luck not crying to all the parents out there!) Don’t worry if you didn’t catch all the Buddhist references, we talk about each one in finite detail. Enjoy!
Artist:Dead Horses Hometown: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Song: “Brady Street” Album:Brady Street Release Date: August 12, 2022 Label: Vos & Wolff Records
In Their Words: “‘Brady Street’ is a song that came out in bits and pieces and took months to finish. I never wanted to stop working on it because it seemed to capture something that I’ve never been able to capture in song before — a certain type of mood, a moment, a relationship, a phase. Brady Street itself is in a colorfully eclectic neighborhood of Milwaukee. You never know the type of people or situations you’ll run into there. Dan and I have practically made our lives about this sort of thing! It’s the kind of place where no one exists outside of the norm — perhaps because there is no norm. The song, both musically and lyrically, is representative of a coming-of-age for me personally and for Dead Horses. In previous records, I felt I was still searching for an anchor. In ‘Brady Street,’ I realized that the anchor is me.” — Sarah Vos, Dead Horses
This week on the show, we talk to a startling new talent placing a gut-punch into the folk and blues scene, the Milwaukee-raised and now Austin-based singer-songwriter Buffalo Nichols.
Growing up learning on his sister’s dreadnought guitar and then traveling widely through West Africa after high school drinking up the sounds of the kora and percussion players in Senegal, Carl Nichols began finding his voice and playing style in the haunting open and minor tunings first heard from bluesmen like Skip James, who he covers in his remarkable self-titled debut collection. Buffalo Nichols, which came in 2021, is a stark departure from what Carl would call the cheery “opinionless beer commercial blues” that has come to dominate the genre. Nichols’ work is often sparse and direct – just a man with his guitar and a microphone. The stories told in standout songs like “Another Man” and “Living Hell” don’t flinch from comparing how the experience of his elders a hundred years ago in the South may not look much different from men like George Floyd dying on that Minneapolis pavement. Is there catharsis or hope in the songs? Are they a call to action? Maybe that’s up to us to decide.
Carl will admit that it can be tricky trying play his songs like the searing album opener “Lost And Lonesome” in loud bars where people may just want to have a good time and not dive into the backroad history of racial injustice and institutionalized police violence. Thankfully his writing doesn’t hide behind niceties and the recordings aren’t veiled by sonic artifice – Nichols speaks directly to the isolation and danger of being a young Black man in America, and trying to navigate the unease of bringing his stories to an often mostly white Americana-adjacent audience. Even more upbeat numbers like “Back On Top” call to mind the ominous juke-joint growl of John Lee Hooker, bringing us into dimly lit scenes where even late-night pleasure may have its next-morning consequences.
If there’s one thing we learned during this taping, it’s that Carl doesn’t want to just “write songs to make people feel good” – but he does want to tell stories that make the isolated and lost feel less so. Maybe that is the most important function of music truly steeped in the blues tradition: the ability to transform pain into progress. The messages may not be what people always want to hear, but the groundswell rising behind Carl’s stark timeless tales is indeed growing. With recent appearances on Late Night With Stephen Colbert, NPR’s Tiny Desk Concerts and big time dates like Lollapalooza on the books for the summer, folks will be hearing a lot more from Buffalo Nichols.
Photo Credit: Merrick Ales
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