The Working Songwriter: John Moreland (Live Episode)

Recorded live at the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago at the Working Songwriter Forum, our guest is beloved songwriter John Moreland. TWS Forum is an annual event that the podcast hosts in June. Listeners take in concerts by the headlining artists and then attend workshops from them during the day. This was the second annual event. The headliners and dates for next year’s Forum will be announced this month.

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Photo Credit: John Moreland

The Other 22 Hours: Medium Build

Between late-night TV appearances, touring commitments and relentless album sprints, how does a working artist remain anchored in their own life? This week, we sit down with Nick Carpenter (Medium Build), whose catalog of raw, empathetic storytelling has earned him critical acclaim, tours with Mumford & Sons and Tyler Childers, and fans such as Elton John, John Mayer, and boygenius. We discuss the exhausting trap of algorithmic omnipresence, the Jungian necessity of integrating our shadows rather than suppressing them, and the profound wisdom passed to him by Ben Kweller on honoring the muse. It is a generous, disarming exploration into stepping off the treadmill of validation and reclaiming art as an act of service rather than a product.

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In This Episode:

– Medium Build
– Jimmy Kimmel
– Rosie Rush
– Carl Jung
– Duke’s (Nashville)
– Niall Horan
– Gandalf (The Lord of the Rings)
– Bonnaroo
– Ben Kweller

Go Deeper:

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.

Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.


Photo Credit: Beth Garrabrant

The Working Songwriter: Jim James

Our guest this week is one of Louisville, Kentucky’s favorite sons. Jim James is a native Kentuckian who rose to prominence as the vocalist and creative force behind the celebrated rock group My Morning Jacket.

“The Jacket,” as they are affectionately called by their fans, released their debut album The Tennessee Fire in 1999 and took the country by storm with their legendary live show. Since then they’ve released a slew of critically acclaimed albums, including 2008’s Evil Urges and 2011’s Circuital, which both charted in the Top 10 on the Billboard 200.

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The group has recorded for Capitol, RCA, ATO, and V2, and toured with Bob Dylan, Wilco, Guided by Voices, and the Foo Fighters. In addition, the hard-charging band has appeared at Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, Coachella, Newport Folk Festival, New Orleans Jazz Fest, Austin City Limits Music Festival, Glastonbury, the Bridge School Benefit, and pretty much any festival of note.

They’ve also been frequent guests on late-night TV including Late Show with David Letterman, Late Night With Conan O’Brien, and The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. In more recent years, Jim has been part of the group Monsters of Folk, along with M. Ward, Conor Oberst, and Mike Mogis, and he’s also released a string of solo albums including this year’s title, Wowed Out.

Pitchfork has called the Jacket’s sound “huge, ghostly, terrifying rock ‘n’ roll.” The Guardian has dubbed the band’s output as “seven albums of resplendent melodies.” And NPR has said that his music has “the sound of a lost soul in search of something bigger than himself.”

I got a chance to catch up with Jim a few weeks ago to hear about his musical journey so far.


Photo Credit: Danny Clinch

Folk Files: Fol-de-rol and Fiddle-dee-dee

Non-lexical vocables are syllables without any semantic meaning, sometimes called “nonsense syllables.” In this episode of Folk Files, we’ll explore lilting, yodeling, konnakol, throat singing, and other vocable traditions from around the world. During our global musical journey, we’ll discover that these syllables carry meaning, even though they don’t have definitions.

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Find a list of all musical excerpts used in this episode.

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Host: Olivia Harding
Assistant Producer: Aaron J. Morton

The Working Songwriter: Fruit Bats

Our guest this week is one of Chicago’s favorite sons. Eric D. Johnson is the songwriter, singer and multi-instrumentalist behind Fruit Bats, which started in the late 1990s as a four-track recording project before growing into a full touring band. Over the years, Johnson has been a member of The Shins and played with Califone and Vetiver. Besides Fruit Bats, Johnson is also one-third of Bonny Light Horseman alongside Anaïs Mitchell and Josh Kaufman.

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Fruit Bats have toured with acts including Modest Mouse, The Shins, Iron & Wine, My Morning Jacket, Son Volt, Ray LaMontagne and Guster. Bonny Light Horseman’s debut album earned two Grammy nominations in 2020 for Best Folk Album and Best American Roots Performance (“Deep in Love”). NPR described Fruit Bats as “sweetly flavored folk-pop.” Pitchfork wrote that Johnson has “got a good ear for a classic melody.” And Relix called him “a veteran of the contemporary folk-rock world” with an “instantly recognizable voice.”

I got a chance to catch up with Eric about his journey since our last talk!


Photo Credit: Kelsey Gallagher

Basic Folk: Keb’ Mo’ Defines the Blues as “Honesty Music”

We are so honored to welcome Keb’ Mo’ (aka Kevin Moore) on the show for our 350th episode! After many decades of incredible music, his new solo acoustic album, The Breakdown, was written and recorded at his home studio near Nashville following open-heart surgery and personal life changes. He’s also recently released his second collaborative album with the legendary Taj Mahal.

We were blown away by Keb’ Mo’s definition of the blues: “honesty music.” There’s a lot of debate nowadays whether the blues is something that includes a formal set of requirements. Is it a genre? Is it a type of sound that’s trapped in a particular historical era? Kevin didn’t even give the time of day to any of those gatekeeper explanations. He said if the music has that honesty, has the moan and the sense of speaking to Black experience for a Black audience who understand what it’s like to struggle, that’s what the blues is.

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There’s a spectrum of humility to ego in music. Some artists use music and performance as vehicles for their own notoriety. During this interview, I was struck by how far on the opposite end of the spectrum Keb’ Mo’ falls. Kevin went from being a kid in Compton asking his parents for a guitar, knowing how much $25 meant in those days, to now being an artist sponsored by so many guitar companies. He still remembers a time when the idea of having a collection of guitars was crazy talk.

His humility during our conversation is so present. I asked Kevin, “What does success mean to you and do you think you’ve achieved it?” His answer was, “I get to keep playing and I don’t have to get a regular job.” Even after all these years and so many accolades, it’s a privilege for him to play his own original music in front of people and to be a part of this tradition.

I just wanna shout out how generous Kevin is as a conversation partner. I came into this interview nervous because he’s one of the more legendary guests that we’ve had on the show. I found myself a number of times having to sit back and receive a compliment. He’s the first to say, “That was a great question. You’re really thoughtful. You’re killing it!” So I was really lucky to interview him.


Photo Credit: Rachel Deeb

The Other 22 Hours: Mary Gauthier (Reissue)

Grammy-nominated songwriter and author Mary Gauthier, whose songs have been recorded by everyone from Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton to Boy George and Jimmy Buffett, joins us for a deeply resonant exploration of life, survival, and craft. Starting her songwriting journey at age 40 after a successful career as a chef and restaurant owner, Mary offers a deeply grounded perspective on what it means to build a long-haul artistic life.

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Originally aired on The Other 22 Hours in August 2023 as Episode 27, we are revisiting this favorite conversation from our archive to unpack her 33-year journey in recovery, the necessity of patience in art and persistence in business, and how songwriting serves as a container for processing trauma and bridging human divides.

In This Episode:

– Songwriting With Soldiers 
– Saved by a Song: The Art and Healing Power of Songwriting
– Ep 152 – Matraca Berg
– Ep 43 – Gretchen Peters
– Beth Nielsen Chapman
– Liz Rose
– Patty Griffin
– Neko Case

Go Deeper:

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: David McClister

The Working Songwriter: Jay Buchanan

Our guest this week on The Working Songwriter hails from a small mountain town in California, but his music has now made it across the world. Jay Buchanan got his start in the early 2000s with a solo project before joining ranks with a rock band and forming Rival Sons. Since 2008, that group has built a remarkable fan base and beloved discography.

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Rival Sons have shared stages with an astonishing list of artists including Black Sabbath, the Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Guns N’ Roses, Queens of the Stone Age, Metallica, and Lenny Kravitz. They’ve appeared on The Late Late Show with James Corden, Jimmy Kimmel Live!, Later… with Jools Holland, and France’s Le Grand Journal.

The band earned Grammy nominations in 2020 for Best Rock Album (Feral Roots) and Best Rock Performance (“Too Bad”). The Guardian called Buchanan “a revelation” and “a mesmerising presence throughout.” Revolver called him “an undeniable vocal force,” and Classic Rock praised his 2026 solo debut, Weapons of Beauty, as “a remarkable journey through soul music, country rock, southern gothic and gospel.” I got a chance to catch up with Jay a few weeks ago to hear about that solo album and about the rest of his musical journey so far.


Photo courtesy of the artist.

Basic Folk: Hrishikesh Hirway

If you have been paying attention to music circles for the past 25+ years, you will be familiar with Hrishikesh Hirway. He formerly released music under the moniker The One AM Radio and has also produced and hosted the premiere music podcast of the 21st century (the only century with podcasts so far, so clearly we feel strongly): Song Exploder. Until recently, his name had not been front and center on any of his projects until his newest album, In the Last Hour of Light. Hrishi grew up in Massachusetts the son of Indian immigrants, immersed and in love with music. After releasing music as The One AM Radio until 2011, he started the podcast Song Exploder in 2014. He’s hosted and produced numerous shows and has been a crucial part of the podcasting landscape for 12 years.

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In our Basic Folk conversation, Hrishi expands on the power of grief after his mother died and how his came gradually because of her long illness. He spoke of his name and what it’s felt like to reclaim it in a public space in 2026 versus 1999, and he gives a little shout out to Obama. He gets into his feelings about his speaking voice and the person who likes it the most (his wife). We also hear from Hrishi about what it’s like to be a figure in music that can offer musicians a bigger platform with his podcasts. He is someone who enjoys connecting and collaborating with others, but I wanted to know how it felt when sometimes the equation doesn’t always add up. Overall I give this interview a 10/10! It was a pleasure getting to know the wonderful Hrishikesh Hirway.


Photo Credit: Elisha Christian

The Other 22 Hours: Ruby Amanfu (Reissue)

This week, we dive into our archives for this special reissue of our conversation with GRAMMY-nominated singer-songwriter, producer, activist, and chef Ruby Amanfu. Known for her profound collaborations with H.E.R., Brandi Carlile, Alicia Keys, and Beyoncé, Ruby has navigated the highest peaks of the music industry while fiercely protecting her inner peace. In this episode, we explore the structural collisions that force us to speak our truth, the reality of reclaiming your identity outside of financial validation, and what happens when we finally release our death grip on how we thought our lives would look.

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In This Episode:

– Sam and Ruby
– Porter’s Call
– Andy Little
– MusiCares
– Lee Ann Womack
– Willie Nelson
– Love Rising Concert

Go Deeper:


Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Lead image by Anna Haas; portrait alternate image by Jillian McQuerrey; square alternate image by Shervin Lainez.