To celebrate our 150th episode of The Other 22 Hours, we try a bit of an experiment: interviewing ourselves, for the first time. After nearly two decades of partnership, we examine the evolution of the creative self. Michaela Anne – whose fifth record, These Are The Days, marks her first in over 10 years for which she retains total ownership – discusses the “massive shift of self” required to walk away from industry gatekeepers. Aaron Shafer-Haiss, whose compositions have scored major network dramas like Station 19 and The Good Doctor, reflects on the “utilitarian creativity” of a producer. It is a conversation about resilience, the “growth seesaw” of a creative marriage, and the realization that the dream is already happening.
Singer-songwriter S.G. Goodman has earned critical acclaim, award nominations, and has worked with legends like Tyler Childers, Jason Isbell, and Jim James of My Morning Jacket. In this episode of the Other 22 Hours, we discuss the grueling physical and mental requirements of “making it.” From working manual labor to stay afloat while not on the road to navigating the complex realities of running a bona fide business, S.G. opens up about scarcity, OCD, and the hard-won wisdom of learning to drive the lawnmower instead of letting it drive you.
Five-time GRAMMY nominee HunterHayes has spent his entire life on the national stage, from performing at the White House at age seven to sharing stadium spotlights with the likes of Stevie Wonder and Taylor Swift. Yet, behind the multi-platinum accolades was a realization that his professional development had far outpaced his personal life. In this episode of the Other 22 Hours, we explore the vulnerability of “growing up” in the public eye, the paralyzing fear of not being busy, and how a strict routine can actually provide the ultimate freedom to play. And, we chat about how starting from a place of love is the only viable way to build an artistic career that lasts.
BGS is ecstatic to announced The Other 22 Hours, a beloved podcast hosted by singer-songwriter Michaela Anne and music producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, is joining the BGS Podcast Network. Beginning Wednesday, March 4, new episodes of The Other 22 Hours will be distributed by BGS and hosted right here on our website, as well. Founded in 2023, the show has produced more than 130 episodes – which drop weekly – featuring conversations with renowned musicians and artists who share tools for resilience, helping all kinds of creatives to feel more inspired, connected, and confident in their creative journey. If an artist, creative, or musician is “performing” only a couple of hours each day, what do they do with the other 22 hours? The brand new season of the pod will launch Wednesday with an interview with producer, musician, and singer-songwriter Butch Walker. Subscribe now.
“BGS is thrilled to welcome The Other 22 Hours to the BGS Podcast Network,” said Cindy Howes, who directs the network for the Bluegrass Situation and Good Country. “Michaela and Aaron have developed a beautiful space to hold conversations that offer a unique look behind the humans who make the art we love. There’s so much the public at large does not know about what it takes to live and maintain a creative life; Michaela and Aaron help us all be more responsible patrons of the arts as well as seeding inspiration for our own creative endeavors.”
Michaela Anne is a celebrated singer-songwriter and folk/Americana artist who has been covered by BGS and featured on our stages many times over the years. Shafer-Haiss, her husband and collaborator, is an accomplished record producer, drummer, songwriter, and composer. Together, they’ve have had thoughtful and down-to-earth conversations over the past few years with incredible creatives like The Milk Carton Kids, Leyla McCalla, Rodney Crowell, Adia Victoria, Mary Gauthier, Lori McKenna, Watkins Family Hour, Miko Marks, Brandy Clark, Tift Merritt, Raye Zaragoza, and many more.
“We’ve been friends and occasional collaborators with the BGS family for years,” Michaela Anne and Shafer-Haiss share via email, “so bringing The Other 22 Hours to the network feels like a bit of a homecoming. Our show has always been about the reality behind the highlight reel, a community-built road map to sustaining a creative life. We’re thrilled to get to align our conversations with a network that values the craft just as much as the art.”
To celebrate the Other 22 Hours joining the BGS Podcast Network and in anticipation of the new season launching this week, we’re sharing five of ours, Michaela Anne’s, and Shafer-Haiss’s favorite archive episodes from the podcast’s three existing seasons. Dive in, catch up on what you missed, and stay tuned for more episodes of The Other 22 Hours coming weekly right here on BGS and wherever you get podcasts. More info on the show here.
Rosanne Cash(EP 100, April 2025)
“We talk with the legendary songwriter about navigating insecurity and imposter syndrome, measuring your own success by your talent and not your validation, and allowing yourself to be called an artist. We also get into prose vs. songwriting, respect for yourself and for the audience, and Cash’s rituals.”
Maggie Smith (EP 96, March 2025)
“We talk with New York Times best-selling author about keeping the purity of your creativity, being integrated as a human, and trusting yourself to do what’s needed to keep this career going. Plus, being your own safety net, being open to completely revamping work, and arm wrestling.”
Yancey Strickler (EP 126, October 2025)
“We talk with the co-found of Kickstarter (and the Creative Independent, Metalabel, and Artist Corporations) about revolutionizing the creator economy. We talk about his concept and creation of Artist Corporations – think incorporating independent artists – the systemic exploitation of artists, how DSPs trade convenience for meaning and depth, platform boycotts, and ‘winning’ in its purest sense.”
JOHNNYSWIM (EP 113, July 2025)
“We talk with the folk/soul/pop duo about staying curious in your pursuits and creating space for wonder and childlike-ness. They offer their thoughts on how to rejuvenate yourself and your creativity on the run, the blinders of fixation, family, and more.”
Joe Henry (EP 39, 2023)
“We talk with the acclaimed songwriter and producer about keeping yourself in the creative stream, knowing when to step away, acceptance, and the quote, ‘How you do anything is how you do everything.'”
New days and clean slates keep coming for singer-songwriter Caitlin Canty. She is sharpening her skills, raising a family, and continuing to build a body of work that reflects resilience, quiet strength, and resolute honesty. Her new record, Night Owl Envies the Mourning Dove, is a testament to her evolving artistry – an album that turns natural solitude, domestic change, and hard-earned wisdom into a collection of songs that sound both grounded in the earth and untethered from time.
Canty was born in Proctor, Vermont, in 1982 and grew up surrounded by rural landscapes and the gentle rhythms of small-town life. Raised by a schoolteacher mother and a housepainter father, she found song in ordinary moments – singing in chorus and playing trombone in school before receiving her first guitar and VHS-tape lessons at age 17. After earning a biology degree from Williams College she moved to New York City, where she worked for the Emmy-nominated series Live from the Artists Den while pursuing music on her own terms.
Her early releases – including Golden Hour (2012) and the breakout Reckless Skyline (2015) – drew acclaim for her “casually devastating voice” and “hauntingly urgent” Americana ballads. She won the Telluride Troubadour songwriting competition in 2015 and began touring extensively across the U.S. and Europe, collaborating with artists like Peter Bradley Adams and Jamey Johnson, and earning praise from Rolling Stone, NPR, and No Depression for her gritty lyricism and radiant poise.
In recent years, she and her husband, musician Noam Pikelny, moved back to Vermont, settling on a mountaintop near her childhood home. There, Canty continues to record, tour, and write – with the same battered 1939 Recording King guitar that has accompanied her throughout her career.
One of the album’s most tender tracks, “Don’t Worry About Nothing,” carries the voice of a mother consoling and encouraging against the endless churn of small anxieties. It is at once lullaby, sermon, and reminder: that one bad thing does not mean the whole world has collapsed.
“There is a mom’s voice and perspective to focus and worry about the things that do matter,” Canty explained. “But also how little worries and little jealousies can work against us… Tornadoes, awful things, [they] remind you how short life is and what’s actually important.”
The song’s origins stretch back to a small mishap – her young son’s toy castle tumbling down – but its weight comes from deeper, darker places. In March 2020, a tornado tore through her East Nashville neighborhood, missing her home by mere yards. Not long after, the pandemic upended the world. The castle was a metaphor, she realized, for the way everything can crash at once, yet perspective offers a way forward.
For Canty, who released Reckless Skyline a decade ago, the test of time has reshaped her relationship to both music and ambition. “My real goal is to be writing more and better songs,” she said. “My real goal is to be connecting with more people through those songs, playing with musicians that I adore, and getting on good stages. Not worrying about courting people, but to do right by the music.”
Doing right by the music has meant widening her scope. Night Owl Envies the Mourning Dove reaches for longevity, not trends. It sits comfortably in a lineage of songwriters who, like Canty, trust the songs to outlive themselves. “I look to musicians who have had longer careers, like Dolly Parton,” she said. “She is singing songs that she wrote in her 20s. There are so many who have a gorgeous output of songs that are their lifelong friends. It’s not about when they were written or how people liked them then.”
Canty doesn’t wait around for the muse. To her, waiting for inspiration is “a fool’s errand.” She compares songs to photographs – fleeting impressions that must be captured before they fade. “You take a picture and you remember it as notable and beautiful and there is something about it that makes you want to share it. That type of inspiration sparks a song. It happens countless times a day.”
But the challenge, she says, is to honor the purity of that first flash. “You are lucky if you have the time from start to finish to complete the song and make the world go away. The fewer co-writers the better, including myself. If you open it up again in two weeks, or a year, you have different eyes… and that brings too many people and opinions into the room rather than one solid voice.”
Some of her most recent songs arrived in just such a spark – like during a violent rainstorm in Vermont. Alone in her cabin as thunder cracked over the mountains, Canty felt a song arrive like lightning. Hungry, shivering, and unable to leave, she turned to the page. “That’s when it is about honoring your craft and keeping your calluses hard,” she said. “Writing songs and tending to those fires.”
Much of the new album reflects Canty’s sense of place. After years of calling Nashville home, in Vermont the woods, weather, and solitude shape her work. Songs like “Electric Guitar” hum with what she calls “domestic noise” – the sound of home life creeping into the music. “Examining what home means is another strong thread in a lot of these songs,” she said. “There is a lot of domestic noise in ‘Electric Guitar’ of a life settled and tied to the home front.”
The landscape also plays a role. Birds, trees, and storms become metaphors for transformation and survival, grounding her reflections on motherhood and the passage of time.
Every songwriter brings along artists who came before them and for Canty, one such artist is Lucinda William and her landmark album, Car Wheels on a Gravel Road. Canty first heard it in college while working as a server to make ends meet. Living in a big house with wide kitchen windows, she found herself singing along to those raw, unvarnished songs. “The sound, the songwriting, the singing – it all was a high-water mark for me,” Canty recalled. “It had the mystery of how something so simple could be so powerful. Why is this message of another person hitting my heart and staying embedded? How do I do that?”
Since Reckless Skyline, Canty has been described as gentle, quiet, restrained. But she resists those labels. “I don’t think that that is what this record is,” she said. “There might be fingerpicked and more solitary numbers, but a lot of the songs are more electric and grittier, and closer maybe to Reckless Skyline or Car Wheels in that regard.”
There’s grit beneath the quiet, steel beneath the lull. That mix – of softness and resolve – has become her artistic fingerprint. At the core of her music lies a devotion to truth.
“I could never act,” Canty admitted. “As a kid, I loved band and singing. Music is getting to truth and getting yourself out of the way of a song. If it’s the truth, then I feel comfortable singing it.”
That truth may be wrapped in storms or in stillness, in the clatter of home or in the electric hum of a live stage. But it is always there – steady, unpretentious, and deeply human.
With Night Owl Envies the Mourning Dove, Caitlin Canty has crafted more than an album – it is a meditation on resilience, a love letter to songwriting itself, and a statement of intent. She is not chasing spotlights or trends, but tending her fires, shaping her craft, and writing songs that might someday be her lifelong friends.
“My real goal,” she repeats, “is to be writing more and better songs… to do right by the music.”
For Canty, that’s enough. And for those who listen, it is everything.
Today we have one of my favorite couples on Only Vans! Michael is currently Pat Green’s drummer and also has a solo artist career. Michaela is the creator and artist behind More Than Music Creations. We talk about losing brain space, being parents, and their unique side hustle.
On this edition of Only Vans, my friend Michael Kelton met Kyle and I on the RV when his wife, Michaela – you heard that right, their names are Michael and Michaela – also walked up. She is one of my dear friends, so I invited her to sit down and be a bonus guest on Michael’s episode of the podcast. Michael is currently the drummer for established Texas legend Pat Green (who also had a national hit with the song “Wave on Wave”), but Michael does a lot more than just drum for Pat. I loved talking to him about his Sideman Song Swap show, where “sidemen” such as drummers, guitarists, fiddle players, and even tour managers showcase their own “frontman” talents alongside Michael. It’s very impressive.
Michaela, meanwhile, is a master upcycler and has found a way to take used guitar strings from a bunch of bands – including my own – and turn them into one-of-a-kind jewelry items that we can sell at our merch tables with some of the profit going back to a good cause.
Oh! And the carbon monoxide alarm goes off at the end of the episode in the RV and it is loud. Super sorry about that, my deepest apologies, but I’m warning you now in case you’re driving. It’s also kind of funny! Enjoy!
This episode almost didn’t happen. I thought long and hard about taking this step to not only be vulnerable with listeners, but also to put out some music into the world that I never intended to be shared — music that was strictly intended as therapy. But, the reason I started this podcast was to explore how creativity is healing, and also to have creatives be open and honest about the messy bits: everything that forms the human experience. None of us get through life without the messy bits. How could I interview everyone else and hear their open and vulnerable takes on healing and the process of their creativity, and not let you hear the same?
I am so grateful to the Brothers Koren. They have an incredible program called the Songwriter’s Journey, where they help folks to reclaim their “Big Voice” — and to reclaim their power, creativity, and truth through that voice. As musicians they’ve toured with the likes of Coldplay, Pink, and Rod Stewart, but they decided that after so many years in the music industry, they wanted to use their voices, their music and their incredible talents to help others. In this special, co-interview episode we discuss our creative process as we worked together for the past year and a half, after they came into my life at one of the most difficult times for me, especially regarding my relationship to art.
We lost my grandmother at the beginning of the pandemic last year, and even though my grandfather is suffering from dementia, at our family’s memorial service (held via Zoom) he once again became the man we all knew and loved — the man who, at a young age, had instilled in me his deep love of nature — who was now soothing and bringing our family together in our grief. I hope you’ll stay tuned to the end of this episode for the premiere of our song “The Moon Will Stay,” which is a collaboration between a poem I wrote for my grandfather and the beautiful music it inspired in Thorald and Isaak Koren. There are incredible studies about the healing power of music, especially for those with Alzheimer’s and dementia, and I’m so glad I was able to write this for my grandfather and for him to have heard it before we someday will inevitably lose him. But not today — because the moon will stay, and we will always have that. — Beth Behrs
More music from Beth Behrs and the Brothers Koren will be available on Bandcamp later this month. All proceeds will benefit mental health-focused charities.
Follow @harmonicspodcast on Instagram for more updates on how you can download this music and support these important causes!
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