BGS 5+5: David Berkeley

Artist: David Berkeley
Hometown: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Latest Album: A Pail Full of Fire
Personal Nicknames (or rejected band names): The only time I really had a nickname was when I was teaching in a public middle school in Bushwick. The kids called me Shaggy.

What’s the toughest time you ever had writing a song?

I gave up on my song “This Be Dear to Me” probably a dozen times. I began writing it as an exercise in positivity after Trump got elected. Instead of lamenting all the things I feared would be ruined, I decided to try to write a list of what I loved. That’s where it started. Pages and pages of places I found beautiful, people I cared about, lists of what I valued. I guess I wanted to unite people who were behaving like they had nothing in common by reminding them (us) that there are lots of things we all love. Like, here are some things we all must hold dear, right? Rivers and trees, the autumn, the moon, our children. If we remember that then maybe we stop fighting about less important things?

But I didn’t want it to be heavy-handed or preachy. And I didn’t want it to be too syrupy. Eventually, I had the list and I shaped it into maybe forty verses. That felt like a few too many, though, so I spent a long time whittling. I got it down to three. At first the chorus was just an extended Amen. “Ah ah ah ah… men.” But that seemed like a cop out. So I ultimately added a lyric, which wasn’t easy to write. It appeals to Adonai to help remind us what is worth fighting for. That also felt like a risk. I’m Jewish, but I rarely reference my Judaism in my music. Finally, I had this idea that the song should lift and modulate as it progresses, so the lyric would feel more urgent and the music could soar. But I also knew that I wanted it to feel cyclical and to come back home at the end. So then it became almost like a puzzle. Could I move through several keys and return to where we began? That’s ultimately where the song landed. It’s the hardest I ever worked on a song, but it’s also probably the most powerful to sing live.

Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?

I never had a dog growing up. In fact, I never really liked dogs. I pretended to like your dog if we met. But really I was a little afraid of her/him. And I never understood dog people. I’m a father of two boys. And when people talked about their dog like a child, I bristled. But we got a puppy during COVID. Her name is Mali, and I love her. Like I really love her. She’s changed my whole world. Don’t tell my boys, but I often miss Mali more than my kids when I’m on tour. She certainly seems happier to see me when I come home than they do.

This all to say, I spend a lot of my time hiking with her in the Sangre de Cristo mountains above Santa Fe. You’re far more likely to run into me hiking up Picacho or on the backside of Sun Mountain than anywhere else in town. You can see a hundred miles from up there. And I normally bring a blank book with me. I start a lot of songs on those hikes. And I try my melodies out on Mali. She has better ears than humans do, so I think it’s fair to trust her reaction.

How often do you hide behind a character in a song or use “you” when it’s actually “me”?

I wouldn’t call it hiding, but I use characters more and more in my writing to express certain ideas or emotions that might be clearer through the eyes or mouth of someone else. My song “Omaha,” for example, is a song about a guy trying to reunite with a lost love. That’s not autobiographical at all, but it’s honest.

And of course in my duo project, Sons of Town Hall. My partner and I have created a whole mythic backstory. My name in that project is Josiah and every song is sung from within that fictitious world. We’re now rolling out a comedy-fiction podcast series called Madmen Cross the Water that tells the stories behind the songs on our new album. But just like in my solo work, even though there is a character I’m writing for it doesn’t compromise the honesty. In fact, sometimes I think we can be more honest and open when we are wearing a kind of mask.

If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?

I’d go back to the Salmon River in Idaho and try to get my old job back as a river guide. I love playing music, but it isn’t an easy career and there’s a lot of it I don’t like – promoting myself, for example, or sound checking, or all the travel. But I liked every bit of being a river guide back in the day.

Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

I’d like to travel back with Anthony Bourdain on a food tour of Italy. And after eating our way through the country for a few weeks, we end up in Rome. We head to the Pantheon one night under a big moon. It’s all barricaded off, but we’re ushered in. It turns out that Neil Young is there (but it’s 1971 Neil). He’s got a pipe organ in there and a few guitars. They serve us plates of cacio e pepe and glasses of cold Frascati and he basically plays the Massey Hall set for maybe fifty of us.


Photo courtesy of the artist.

Josh Grider on Only Vans with Bri Bagwell

(Editor’s Note: Only Vans with Bri Bagwell is the latest addition to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about the podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.)

Josh Grider is a successful songwriter and touring musician, as a solo artist and as half of the Topo Chico Cowboys. We also happen to share a hometown in Las Cruces, New Mexico. We talk about the desert we were raised in, New Mexico food, not being qualified for real world jobs, and much more in this hilarious episode of Only Vans.

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Find Josh Grider’s music, tour dates and merchandise here.

Thanks to our sponsors for this episode, The MusicFest at Steamboat, Lakeside Tax & CH Lonestar Promo!


LISTEN: Eliza Gilkyson, “Here Comes the Night”

Artist: Eliza Gilkyson
Hometown: Taos, NM
Song: “Here Comes the Night”
Album: Home
Release Date: June 23, 2023
Label: Realiza Records

In Their Words: “With the encroaching reality of global warming and extreme natural disasters I find comfort in knowing that the Earth is more resilient than human beings at their worst. Even if I don’t live to see things turn around after they fall apart, I do feel hopeful about the Earth’s supreme thrust to create life in all its myriad forms. I wrote this song just to conjure up some courage to get my emotional ‘sea legs’ in the light of what’s coming within my lifetime, and to find some element of redemption in all of it. Musically, I wanted to keep it all upbeat rather than gloomy, to convey a combination of apprehensive and hopeful feelings. My brother Tony Gilkyson delivered just the kind of twang-and-grit guitar to accomplish that, and I think it pairs well with Don Richmond’s cascading mandolin parts.” – Eliza Gilkyson


Photo Credit: Robert Jensen

LISTEN: Esther Rose, “Dream Girl”

Artist: Esther Rose
Hometown: Born in Detroit, raised in Columbiaville, Michigan
Song: “Dream Girl”
Album: Safe to Run
Release Date: April 21, 2023
Label: New West Records

In Their Words: “This song is for anyone who’s been made to feel less than their male counterparts. Don’t listen to them, dreamgirl! About halfway through making the album in New Mexico, producer Ross Farbe and I took the songs back to New Orleans. We recruited Silver Synthetic to be my backing band on a couple of songs. It feels like a sonic bridge, connecting my past to my present. I am a huge fan of this band and it was dreamy to hear my songs come to life with their soft rock vibes.” — Esther Rose


Photo Credit: Brandon Soder

LISTEN: Jono Manson, “Make It Through to Spring”

Artist: Jono Manson
Hometown: New York City (currently living in Santa Fe, New Mexico)
Song: “Make It Through to Spring”
Album: Stars Enough To Guide Me
Release Date: March 31, 2023
Label: Blue Rose

In Their Words: “The seed for this song came in the depths of last winter, during a particularly cold spell while I was bundled up, taking our dog for her morning walk. While passing along the banks of the Santa Fe river, I noticed water still flowing, under the ice. I took this as a reminder that even in the darkest days of winter new life lies waiting, under the ice, beneath the frozen ground. I wrote most of the lyric that day. I then sent what I had to my long-time collaborator George Breakfast who lives in London, and we passed it back and forth until the song was done.” — Jono Manson


Photo Credit: William Coupon

BGS 5+5: Cahalen Morrison

Artist: Cahalen Morrison
Hometown: Tierra Amarilla, New Mexico
Latest Album: Wealth of Sorrow
Personal Nicknames: Hank

Which artist has influenced you the most … and how?

Probably Tim O’Brien. My dad was a big Hot Rize fan when I was a kid, so that’s the one voice that I really grew up on. Later on in my musical life I found myself doing a lot of things that at least reminded me of Tim. His loose and expressive touch on all the instruments he plays, and he really just lets his voice ring out of his head like a bell. So I think I had subconsciously been modeling a lot of what I did on a lot that he does.

What other art forms — literature, film, dance, painting, etc. — inform your music?

Literature is a big one for me. Both poetry and prose. I guess I’ve even ‘borrowed’ lines from movies, too. When I’m reading a book by a great writer, I love the way it feels to live inside their language. Not only the story, but the rhythm and the tone of their prose as well. It has really helped me craft songs the way that I want to, and find my own, comfortable voice for getting ideas and images out that I want to.

What’s the toughest time you ever had writing a song?

I recently wrote a story song about someone, which I haven’t actually ever done. I really wanted to get the story across, all the darkness and the beauty, but I don’t like to put people in the spotlight. So, I worked on it for quite a while, trying to highlight all that is human about it without having it be too on the nose, and I think I got somewhere that worked. But I guess there’s only one person who can tell me, so we’ll see.

What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?

The late, great Kelly Joe Phelps was a great mentor to me and my career. He always was pushing me to just do what I actually wanted to do, not to do what I think people want from me. Maybe not the best advice to hit the Billboard charts (which I actually did, because I think my record was the only “bluegrass” record to come out for a week during Covid…), but damn good advice for keeping yourself motivated and happy about the work that you’re creating and performing.

Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?

I spend a lot of time walking and hiking, and it certainly has had a big impact on what I write. And it really is all the cliché stuff that people say about it. Noticing the small things, the interconnectedness of all the elements no matter how big or small, and what effects we and all that surrounds us has on it. And plus, what greater source of beautiful and poignant metaphor could there be?


Photo Credit: Archie MacFarlane

BGS 5+5: Esther Rose

Artist: Esther Rose
Hometown: New Orleans, Louisiana, and sometimes Taos, New Mexico
Latest album: How Many Times
Personal nicknames: Dayfire, Wild Rose

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

Seeing as how there haven’t been any stages as of late, my favorite recent performance was singing “Handyman” with my nephew Cedar. Cedar is three years old and he knows every single word.

What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?

The moment that I knew I wanted to be a guitar player/songwriter was on my 28th birthday when I wrote a song called “The Game” on piano. ‘Til then I had been a supporting member of my partner’s band, but that morning I wrote a breakup song. I remember thinking I need to learn how to play the guitar immediately and I did.

What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?

In the studio I set up a good-luck altar with little treasures from the past year; pretty rocks from significant places, jewelry, photos, whatever has been close to me for the past year of songwriting I will take off and turn it over to the altar. It is grounding to look over and be reminded of why I wrote the songs, or where I was, or who I was with. I keep a candle burning the entire time. It gives me great satisfaction to blow out the candle at the end of a long day, signifying that the work is over.

What’s the toughest time you ever had writing a song?

Writing “When You Go” was tough. My songwriting golden rule is “no bullshit.” I will write and scratch out lines to get closer to what’s really going on. With this song, I wrote the first verses and then froze. The song starts as this kind of self-assured, “I’m getting over you” song. I was scared to go to the no bullshit place to see what was below the surface. I sent it to my best friend and songwriter soulmate Julia and she urged me to finish it. The next day I wrote the chorus and I remember crying, crying, crying and then crying some more. It’s a very primal feeling; please take me with you.

Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

I want to have a glass of wine and a cigarette with Joni Mitchell. I don’t even smoke anymore.


Photo credit: Akasha Rabut

WATCH: Stillhouse Junkies, “Mountains of New Mexico”

Artist: Stillhouse Junkies
Hometown: Durango, Colorado
Song: “Mountains of New Mexico”
Album: Calamity

In Their Words: “‘Mountains of New Mexico’ is an old-school murder ballad about misunderstood victim vs. outlaw, but it’s also an ode to the great wildernesses of the American West and their ability, even in the Information Age, to humble us as they have since the beginning of time. And what better backdrop for this kind of tale than northern New Mexico’s Bisti Badlands, a sun-scarred, alien landscape of hoodoos, gullies, and maze-like washes. The August sun limited our video shoot schedule to early morning and sunset, and the light was nothing short of magical; the song’s windswept climax came to life in a way we had scarcely imagined. ‘Mountains of New Mexico’ is a reminder that trading one kind of trouble for another doesn’t always work in our favor.” — Cody Tinnin, Stillhouse Junkies


Photo credit: Renee Anna Cornue

BGS 5+5: David Berkeley

Artist: David Berkeley
Hometown: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Latest albums: Oh Quiet World and The Faded Red and Blue
Personal nicknames (or rejected band names): Shaggy (You can’t really tell it from this young, put-together, dashing picture, but I’m not always the best at “grooming.”)

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

I once played a show that was accessible only by boat (or a treacherous daylong hike). I was living at the time on the island of Corsica with my wife and our 2-year-old son. We met a couple who produced shows in this magical roadless village on the water. The actual concert was in a big Moroccan tent, but the show was also projected onto the outside of the tent so that people could watch from their boats. My wife and our boy threw our gear onto this little motor boat that was waiting for us at an unmarked dock, jumped aboard, and off we whizzed across the water. Eventually an old crumbling tower came into view, and we came into this beautiful little harbor with olive trees growing and donkeys milling about.

The hosts let us stay in his bohemian guest house looking out onto the Mediterranean. We were treated like royalty. They fed us delicious local cuisine (like wild boar, really strong cheese, figs, and fresh Clementines). We drank cold rosé from grapes grown nearby. Like all the shows I played during that year, I tried to talk only in French, which caused a lot of fairly awkward moments where I inadvertently insulted the audience or told incoherent stories. Sometimes I’d just let a string of words trail off when I realized I had no more vocabulary to pull from. I made up for it with the biggest smiles I could muster, and I dove into each song with a wave of relief. I’ve played a lot of memorable shows in some incredible spots, but that show was hard to top.

What other art forms — literature, film, dance, painting, etc — inform your music?

Good poetry probably influences my writing the most (bad poetry, the least). A good poem can slow down your perceptions and teach you to focus on the beauty and meaning in the small scale and the ordinary. It reminds you of how incredible words can sound when chosen and placed with intention. This year, though, my family and I were living in Madrid and I was trying to read in Spanish. Therefore I didn’t get through as many pages as I might have wished (as my Spanish isn’t what it should be). So lately, I’ve been more influenced by the energy on the Spanish streets, by the sounds from the outdoor bars and mercados, by the clear Iberian light on the colored buildings and in the alleyways.

I wrote and recorded this new album at a time when my family and I were in a kind of mourning after having left Madrid so abruptly. We were attempting to figure out what our world was going to look like during a pandemic, and I wanted to write songs that articulated the hope that a shutdown might actually help us, might crystallize what actually mattered, what we really need to live and be happy and to thrive as a society and an ecosystem. So though literature has long been one of my biggest influences, this project was determined more by place and circumstance.

What’s the toughest time you ever had writing a song?

The closing song on my last release, The Faded Red and Blue, is called “This Be Dear to Me.” I wrestled with her for months. The EP is political. It released just before the midterm election in 2018, and each song tried to tackle one of the main issues of the day (immigration, gun violence, Trump, etc.). But I wanted the last song to rise above the fray. I wanted it to be a kind of political love song. Instead of trying to describe the many problems that were plaguing our country, I wanted to aim higher and think positively, and so I tried to list some of what I find most vital, to articulate what is really worth fighting for.

I filled pages and pages of things I love, writing maybe fourteen verses full of examples I believed were universally important. Eventually (and lucky for listeners), I edited it down to four verses. I suppose the thought was that if we could remember some of the things that we all (regardless of our politics) need and love, then maybe we could return to more surface squabbles with a deeper connection and respect for what matters and even for each other. It took a lot out of me to finish the piece. The song is like a kind of hymn or prayer, and singing it kind of feels like praying.

Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

I love food so much. And I particularly like waiting to eat until after a show. Somewhere toward the end of a concert I get this major rush when I remember that I’m going to have a big meal after it ends. Sometimes I’ll order Thai or Indian food to the venue and set up a table right onstage after the venue clears out. But that’s not what you’re asking. You want some sort of dream meal/musician combo.

How about a seaside table on the Galician coast (north/northwest coast of Spain) with my wife, probably no kids in the picture yet. Local wine. Seafood just pulled out of the water. For some reason Neil Young is there. But it’s Neil Young from 1971. Huge sideburns. Maybe he just walked the Camino de Santiago. He pulls up a chair. We share our food with him. He’s very hungry after the long walk and so is really grateful for the platters we pass him. Then he notices my guitar and asks if he can borrow it and play us his new material. He plays through Harvest as the sun dips into the Cantabrian Sea.

How often do you hide behind a character in a song or use “you” when it’s actually “me”?

All the time. Well, not so much with my solo work, but I have had a side project, which for the past few years up until the days of Corona had become a primary project, called Son of Town Hall. My British bandmate Ben Parker and I have created a whole fictitious world where we dress in shabby Victorian clothes and travel from show to show by a junk raft that we built. The entire show — every song and every word we say — is in character. Oddly, though, the costumes and the backstory have allowed us to sometimes be even more honest and open than we might otherwise have been comfortable being. The show is very funny. But, despite the artifice, when we are talking about big things (which we do a lot in our show), like the human condition, say, we mean it.


Photo credit: Kerry Sherck

WATCH: Eliza Gilkyson, “Beautiful World of Mine”

Artist: Eliza Gilkyson
Hometown: Austin, Texas
Song: “Beautiful World of Mine”
Album: 2020
Release Date: April 10, 2020
Label: Red House Records

In Their Words: “I wrote this song in Taos, New Mexico just looking out the window of my home there. My son Cisco, who produced the lyric video, wanted to make it seem like a day walking in the mountains, from sunrise to sunset. I think when you feel deeply connected to the natural world then you also become protective of it and willing to fight for it. This song and the video are meant to inspire that commitment to care for and protect our beautiful world.” — Eliza Gilkyson


Photo credit: Rodney Burseil