Tag: Country Music Hall of Fame & Museum

Celebrating Women’s History Month: Dottie West, Gail Davies, and More

Posted on by Justin Hiltner

Our partnership with our friends at Real Roots Radio in Southwestern Ohio continues as we move from Black History Month to Women’s History Month! This time, we’ll bring you weekly collections of a variety of powerful women in bluegrass, country, Americana, folk, and elsewhere who have been featured on Real Roots Radio’s airwaves each weekday in March, highlighting the outsized impact women have on American roots music.

You can listen to Real Roots Radio online 24/7 or via their FREE app for smartphones or tablets. If you’re based in Ohio, tune in via 100.3 (Xenia, Dayton, Springfield), 106.7 (Wilmington), or 105.5 (Eaton).

American roots music, historically and currently, has often been regarded as a male-dominated space. It’s certainly true of the music industry in general and these more down-home musics are no exception. Thankfully, American roots music and its many offshoots, branches, and associated folkways include hundreds and thousands of women who have greatly impacted these art forms, altering the courses of roots music history. Some are relatively unknown – or under-appreciated or undersung – and others are global phenomena or household names.

Over the next few weeks, we and RRR will do our best to bring you examples of women in roots music from all levels of notoriety and stature. Radio host Daniel Mullins, who together with BGS and Good Country staff has curated the series, kicks off March featuring Dottie West, Girls of the Golden West, Donna Ulisse, Gail Davies, and Cousin Emmy. We’ll return next week and each Friday through the end of the month with even more examples of women who blazed a trail in roots music.

Plus, you can find two playlists below – one centered on bluegrass, the other on country – with dozens of songs from countless women artists, performers, songwriters, and instrumentalists who effortlessly demonstrate how none of these roots genres would exist without women.

Dottie West (1932 – 1991)

She was a trailblazer, a storyteller, and a country music legend. Dottie West – born Dorothy Marsh in the small town of Frog Pond, Tennessee – rose to fame with her rich voice and heartfelt songs. Her childhood was heartbreaking, due to physical and sexual abuse at the hands of her alcoholic father. As a teenager, she testified against her father, aiding in his conviction and sentencing on charges resulting from his continued sexual abuse of her and her siblings.

After high school, Dottie received a music scholarship to pursue her passion. It was her songwriting that really helped build in-roads for her in the music business, particularly after Jim Reeves had a top three hit with Dottie’s song, “Is This Me.” In 1965, she made history as the first female country artist to win a GRAMMY with her original composition, “Here Comes My Baby.” Its smash success also led to her becoming a member of the Grand Ole Opry.

From then on, Dottie became a force in Nashville, penning hits and performing alongside legends like Jim Reeves, Don Gibson, Jimmy Dean, and Kenny Rogers. Her duets with Kenny melted hearts, but her solo career soared, too, scoring twenty-five Top 40 country hits as a solo artist spanning three different decades. Songs like “A Lesson in Leavin’” proved she was unstoppable.

Part of Dottie’s legacy is that of friend and mentor. Pointing to Patsy Cline’s encouragement of her own career, Dottie West would help build up aspiring performers like Jeannie Seely, Steve Wariner, and more. She also helped transform the image of the female country star, with a sexy wardrobe full of flash and glamour. Dottie would be one of the first country artists to find success in writing commercial jingles as well, most notably, Coca-Cola’s use of “Country Sunshine.” But tragedy struck in 1991 when a car accident on the way to the Grand Ole Opry cut her life short at the age of 58.

Though gone too soon, Dottie West’s voice still echoes through country music. She was posthumously inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 2018.

Suggested Listening:
“A Lesson In Leavin’”
“Here Comes My Baby”

Girls of The Golden West (active 1930s to 1960s)

Before there was Dolly or Patsy, there were the Girls of the Golden West! Sisters Mildred and Dorothy Good burst onto the country music scene in the 1930s, blending sweet harmonies and cowboy spirit into radio gold on Chicago’s WLS, home of the National Barn Dance. Alongside early radio stars like Gene Autry, Patsy Montana, and Bradley Kincaid, Girls of the Golden West were one of the most popular country acts of their era.

Taking their name from a popular opera, these Illinois farm girls also developed a compelling backstory for audiences – telling radio listeners they were from Muleshoe, Texas. Embodying the “western” in “country & western,” their cowgirl stage clothes helped add some girl power to the infatuation with cowboys and the Wild West at that time. Their signature song, “Will There Be Any Yodeling in Heaven?,” showcased their angelic voices and signature yodeling style, making them fan favorites on The National Barn Dance.

By the late ’40s, they would relocate from Chicago’s WLS to Cincinnati’s WLW, where they would be part of such iconic programs as the Renfro Valley Barn Dance and the Boone Country Jamboree. Unlike many country acts of the time, these trailblazing women wrote much of their own music, proving that female artists belonged in the spotlight. Their songs, filled with adventure, heartache, and the open range, paved the way for generations of country music legends, including Kitty Wells, Jean Shepard, and The Davis Sisters. Though their fame faded after World War II, their influence never did. So next time you hear a classic country duet, remember – Mildred and Dorothy Good were there first. The Girls of the Golden West were true pioneers of country music.

Suggested Listening:
“Lonely Cowgirl”
“Round-Up Time In Texas”

Donna Ulisse (active 1991 to present)

Donna Ulisse is a powerhouse singer, songwriter, and storyteller whose music blends traditional bluegrass with heartfelt country roots. Originally from Hampton, Virginia, she made her mark in Nashville as a country artist before fully embracing her love for bluegrass.

Donna arrived in Nashville in the early ’80s, working as a harmony vocalist. Her first recording session when she hit town was on a Jerry Reed album. By 1990, she was signed to Atlantic Records, where she released her debut album, Trouble at the Door. This great country album yielded two charting singles for Donna and landed her guest spots on Hee Haw, Nashville Now, and more. But Donna had a knack for mountain melodies – heck, Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys played at her wedding (her husband, Rick, is a Stanley after all).

Donna began gaining traction as a songwriter and released her first album of original bluegrass in 2007. Since then, she hasn’t looked back. With a voice as rich as the Appalachian hills and lyrics that paint vivid pictures of life, love, and faith, Donna has penned songs for top artists like Del McCoury, The Grascals, Darin & Brooke Aldridge, and more. Her song, “I Am a Drifter” was recorded by Volume Five and was named Song of the Year by the International Bluegrass Music Association in 2017. Donna has multiple Bluegrass Songwriter of the Year honors under her belt, as well.

But it’s her own albums – filled with soul-stirring melodies and award-winning songwriting – that truly showcase her artistry. Hits like “Back Home Feelin’ Again,” “Come to Jesus Moment,” “When I Go All Bluegrass on You,” and “Livin’ Large in a Little Town” have made her a beloved mainstay on bluegrass radio and at bluegrass festivals nationwide. Whether she’s performing on stage, writing timeless tunes, or inspiring the next generation of songwriters, Donna Ulisse is a true gem in bluegrass music.

Suggested Listening:
“Trouble At The Door”
“When I Go All Bluegrass On You”

Gail Davies (b. 1948)

She wasn’t just another voice on the radio, she was the first female record producer in country music history. Let’s tip our hats to a native of Broken Bow, Oklahoma and a trailblazer in country music: Gail Davies!

Originally a session singer, Davies sang on records by Glen Campbell, Hoyt Axton, Neil Young, and more. Through this experience she befriended Joni Mitchell, whose producer taught her about record production. In the mid-’70s she worked alongside Roger Miller and started her songwriting journey. Her song, “Bucket to the South,” would be covered by Lynn Anderson, Ava Barber, Wilma Lee Cooper, and later recorded by Gail herself.

In the late ’70s and ’80s, Davies broke barriers. She released her self-titled debut album in 1978. Though successful, she was dissatisfied with the production, changing labels in order to produce her own records – much like Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings had done earlier in the decade. This made Gail Davies country’s first female record producer. The result was stellar, yielding her first top ten hit, “Blue Heartache.”

Gail crafted a unique sound that blended traditional country with fresh, innovative production. Hits like “Grandma’s Song” and “I’ll Be There (If You Ever Want Me)” put her on the map, proving she had the talent and the vision to shape her own career. But Gail wasn’t just making music – she was making history, paving the way for women in Nashville to take creative control of their work, inspiring hitmakers who would follow in her wake like Suzy Bogguss, Kathy Mattea, Mary Chapin Carpenter, and Pam Tillis.

Davies would also produce albums for others as well, being hired as the first female Music City staff record producer in 1990. Over the years she would record with Emmylou Harris, The Whites, Ricky Skaggs, Dolly Parton, and even Ralph Stanley. With over a dozen albums and a career spanning decades, her impact still echoes through country music today. So here’s to Gail Davies – a pioneer, a hitmaker, and a legend.

Suggested Listening:
“Grandma’s Song”
“I’ll Be There (If You Ever Want Me)”

Cousin Emmy (1903 – 1980)

Have you ever heard of Cousin Emmy? If you haven’t, you’re missing out on a true legend of the Appalachian music scene. Born Cynthia May Carver in the heart of Kentucky, Cousin Emmy was the daughter of sharecroppers and a pioneering force in old-time radio and country music.

In the 1930s, her voice rang out across the airwaves captivating listeners with her mountain spirit and stunning talent. She became the first female to win the National Oldtime Fiddlers’ Contest in 1935 and fronted her own band and radio show by the end of the decade. A true trailblazer for women in bluegrass, she didn’t just play – she performed. Known for her skillful banjo playing and unforgettable voice, Cousin Emmy brought Appalachian culture to the masses on major radio stations in Wheeling, Knoxville, St. Louis, and Chicago, leading her to be signed to Decca Records.

Cousin Emmy was featured in Time magazine in 1943, informing its readers that her popular St. Louis radio program drew an average of 2.5 million listeners every Sunday morning. From live shows to classic radio broadcasts, she influenced generations of musicians, including Grandpa Jones (whom she purportedly taught how to play old-time banjo) and Bobby Osborne, who heard her recording of “Ruby” on jukeboxes when he was a youngster. It would later become the debut single for The Osborne Brothers, and remained one of their signature songs, solidifying its status as a bluegrass standard.

Emmy would eventually move to L.A., where she would raise the children she adopted while continuing to perform locally. As the Folk Revival emerged in the early ’60s, the New Lost City Ramblers heard Cousin Emmy performing at Disneyland and encouraged her to join them on record. That session introduced her to a new generation of fans and led to appearances on the folk circuit, including the infamous 1965 Newport Folk Festival. She passed away in southern California in 1980, at the age of 77. Remember the name: Cousin Emmy — a powerful personality and hillbilly star.

Suggested Listening:
“Ruby, Are You Mad At Your Man?”
“I Wish I Was A Single Girl Again”

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Photo Credit: Dottie West courtesy Country Music Hall of Fame & Museum; Gail Davies courtesy of the artist; Donna Ulisse courtesy of Turnberry Records.

Authenticity & Collaboration: We’re All Invited to be The War and Treaty’s ‘Plus One’

Posted on by Justin Hiltner

The mercurial husband/wife duo The War and Treaty are now riding a wave of success with an outstanding new LP, Plus One. Their fourth album, it’s out today, Valentine’s Day, on Mercury Nashville. They are also about to embark on a 30-city tour in March.

Two words recur throughout any conversation with Michael and Tanya Trotter, as they did during our extensive phone interview: Authenticity and collaboration.

“We titled it Plus One, because it’s really all about collaboration,” Michael said, getting things started. “That’s really been the key for us, especially since we came to Nashville and began working with the country community. They have been so open and willing to work with us, to listen and to hear what we have to say when we’re writing or when we’re in the studio.”

“For us, it’s really always important that we be true to who we are and what we do,” added Tanya. “That’s really been what we strive to do and the audiences really seem to enjoy it.”

Indeed, the pair earned multiple standing ovations during the opening night of a recent three-night engagement at the Schermerhorn Symphony Center in Nashville. Backed by the Nashville Symphony Orchestra, they went through a powerhouse nearly 90-minute performance, doing both fresh material from Plus One along with tunes from their earlier LPs such as the masterful “Blank Page,” as well as the glorious “Can I Get an Amen,” and a host of other numbers. They even performed a trio of Ashford & Simpson compositions, among them “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” and “Ain’t Nothing Like the Real Thing.”

“Working with the Symphony was really inspiring, but it was also different for us,” Michael said. “They were so great and we just had to make sure that we were on pace in terms of timing and keeping things going.”

“They were really fantastic,” added Tanya. “They really give you a lot of energy and they were so great playing behind us.”

It’s been quite a ride for the Trotters ever since their debut album, Love Affair, was released. Prior to that, from 2003 to 2007, Michael was in the United States Army. He was a Private First Class assigned to the 1st Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 1st Armored Division and served in Iraq and Germany. During his deployment, his unit was encamped in one of Saddam Hussein’s private palaces, which had a piano in its basement. Michael learned how to play the instrument when his company commander, Captain Robert Scheetz, encouraged him to toy around with the piano knowing he had a passion for singing. Scheetz was killed on a mission shortly after, and Michael wrote his first song in Scheetz’s honor and sang it at his memorial. He then began performing at the services of other fallen soldiers.

When they began working together the couple were initially known as Trotter & Blount. A year later, with their new name the War and Treaty, they released an EP, Down to the River, which was a superb combination of multiple idiomatic references. It had blues and soul feeling in the lead vocals and harmonies, the intensity of gospel in the performances, and the storytelling charm and acumen of country in its lyrical treatments.

Yet, it also identified the one characteristic about the War and Treaty’s music that has proven perplexing. Because they are so naturally eclectic in terms of musical choice and performance style, they were immediately embraced by the Americana audience. Later they were subsequently welcomed by the country market. But they’ve never been able to generate much momentum or traction within the urban contemporary (what was once termed the soul or Black) market. Despite having a sound as soulful as it gets, and being deeply entrenched in traditional Black music (both popular and secular), that market has been slow, at best, to recognize and welcome their music.

“Well, we know who our tribe is and we accept that,” Tanya said. “Certainly we want to reach as many people as we can, and we clearly want to have our songs played on those stations. But we also understand how the industry and marketplace work, and those are things we have no control over.”

“I’ll say this, when we go to our concerts, we have all types of fans,” Michael added. “They’re across the board, old, young, Black, White, Latino, just people who love good music. We really stress being authentic and staying true to what we do and love. That’s all you can do. But I will add that if these stations would play our songs – [and] play songs by people like Kane Brown, Mickey Guyton, Jimmie Allen – I think they’d find a receptive audience, because there’s an authenticity and feeling there that transcends things, yet also is very much a part of the Black experience.”

That’s been the mission since their 2018 debut release, Healing Tide. They quickly became a sensation in Nashville with their second LP, 2020’s Hearts Town, which included a dynamic collaboration with the great Emmylou Harris on the single “Five More Minutes.”

Two years later they were signed to UMG Nashville. Their first effort for the label, Lover’s Game, was in 2023. That same year, they graced a Top 20 hit, “Hey Driver,” a collaboration with Zach Bryan. It led to them being the first Black duo to be nominated for both the Country Music Association and Academy of Country Music’s Duo of the Year awards. It was also an indication that they had been accepted into country’s inner circle, something that hasn’t always been the case with Black performers.

“From the beginning we’ve never received anything other than respect, kindness, and first-class treatment from the country community,” Michael said. “I know that there are some other acts out there who can’t say that, but that’s really been true for how we’ve been treated.”

“Oh yes, everyone’s been so wonderful,” adds Tanya. “I can’t say enough about how great we’ve been treated and what a thrill it’s been working with people like Emmylou Harris, Chris Stapleton, Zach Bryan.”

That theme of joining forces and working together permeates the War and Treaty’s latest, Plus One.

It’s an 18-song masterpiece recorded at the legendary FAME studios in Muscle Shoals and co-produced by the Trotters along with A-list names like John Shanks, Jesse Frasure, and Jonathan Singleton. There’s a host of notable numbers, among them the poetic and inspirational “Love Like Whiskey,” co-written with Miranda Lambert; “Drink From Me” which also spotlights guitarist Billy Strings; as well as the aforementioned “Can I Get an Amen,” “Called You By Your Name,” and “Carried Away.”

Frasure, Strings, and Jonathan Singleton are among the other contributing writers, but much of the material was co-penned by the Trotters. “Some of these go back a ways, while others are recent,” Michael explained. “We really had about 50 songs by the time we finished and we had to cut it down.”

“I think we’ve got the best of the ones,” added Tanya.

With a biopic now in the works that chronicles their storybook rise to fame, the War and Treaty are looking ahead to the tour and future projects. There’s actually one thing they haven’t done yet that they’d like to do.

“We want to do a bluegrass album some day,” Michael says, in conclusion. “We think there’s a lot of material in those old mountain songs, both the gospel and the secular, and we’d like to try our hands at doing them our way. ”

“I think our fans would be delighted,” added Tanya. “They really enjoy some of the other older type material we do, and I think there’s a lot of good material there that really fits what the War and Treaty’s all about, doing strong and good songs our way.”

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Photo Credit: Sophia Matinazad

Texas, Townes, and the Truth

Posted on by Justin Hiltner

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In advance of the release of Vincent Neil Emerson’s latest, critically-acclaimed album, The Golden Crystal Kingdom – which dropped on November 10 – BGS moderated a conversation between VNE and his friend and peer, country & western singer-songwriter and song-interpreter Charley Crockett.

Both artists cut their teeth in music venues in Texas a decade ago. In our conversation, they tell the story of how they came to know each other and discuss ways they protect each other within the business. They talk about covering and cutting each other’s songs and the importance of telling their truths.

Emerson’s new album, produced by Shooter Jennings, veers his sound toward warm ’60s rock and folk influences. He opens up to Charley and BGS about its creation process and what is on the horizon for him.

Charley Crockett: What’s up, Vincent?

Vincent Neil Emerson: What’s up, my boy?

CC: Another day, another dollar.

BGS: Tell me where you both are in the world right now.

VNE: I’m in Asheville, North Carolina, right now, at an Airbnb.

CC: I’m up here in San Luis Valley in Southern Colorado.

Both really nice places to be in the fall.

VNE: You ain’t wrong.

Can you give us a little bit of context about your relationship, where you know each other from, and how long you have been working together?

VNE: Charley, you wanna go?

CC: Oh man, I always tell that story; I wanna hear it from you.

VNE: I met Charley in Deep Ellum. We were playing around town, playing a lot of shows around there and Fort Worth. That was over 10 years ago, maybe?

CC: I was trying to think about it this morning. I think it had to be ’13 or ’14.

VNE: That’s crazy, man.

CC: He remembers it being at Adair Saloon; I remember it being at the Freeman. It really don’t matter, ’cause I’m sure it was both places.

VNE: I’m sure we went and had a drink at Adairs or something like that.

CC: I remember I walked up on him and said, “I like all them Justin Townes Earle songs.” And he said, “I only played one.” I always liked what he was doing, and he used to play solo and do the guitar pools up at Magnolia Motor Lounge all the time. He’d be up there smoking a cigarette, picking through them songs like Townes Van Zandt, and I thought, “Oh lord have mercy, this boy is a force to be reckoned with.”

VNE: Man, I felt the same way as soon as I heard you, brother. I remember a couple of nights I saw you at the Freeman with this band. You had a bunch of guys up on that tiny little stage, and you were just ripping through all these songs, taking all these old honky tonk songs and flipping them on their head and turning them into blues and vice versa. I always thought that was so cool, man.

CC: I don’t remember that well, but I guess you’re right. In those days, every gig we played for both me and Vincent, we ended up getting booked by the same folks, or they were all standing together in some bar, no matter if it was Ft. Worth or Nashville or Los Angeles. One way or another, all them same business folks been standing pretty close to me and Vincent. And that’s the truth.

Well, that’s convenient if you like to work together, I guess. Charley, do you have questions you want to dig in on?

CC: You know, Erin, I don’t even know what the hell we are doing?

Let’s talk about the release of Vincent’s new album.

CC: Well, let me just do this then. Everything he’s been putting out with Shooter [Jennings], like everything else he’s ever done…If you sit there looking at Vincent and he surprises you, it’s like, “Oh damn, I didn’t know old boy was gonna do that.” The very next thing he does, it just happens again — every single time. I remember when he was playing “7 Come 11” way before anybody gave a damn about him and was looking out for his interests or his career. He had all them songs in his pocket way before anybody had ideas or designs on him and his business. I’ve said for a long time that “7 Come 11” is one of the best folk songs written out of Texas in 20 years. Remember Central Track, Vincent?

VNE: Yeah, they did a lot of write-ups on music.

CC: I will never forget that stuff when you did that record and what you were doing live. Erin, he was playing for 50 bucks and a case of Lone Star in them dive bars in Fort Worth, you know? He was living in a 10×10 room. He was hardly ever even standing inside of the damn joint.

A handful of us showed up at the same time, and we are all moving on our own paths, but we’ve all stayed pretty close, or we damn sure weave it together quite a bit even if we get way out there, you know, in the territories, we always come back to each other. I think I met Leon Bridges right around the same time that I met Vincent. I met him in Deep Ellum, too. There is a guy who plays guitar with me now named Alexis Sanchez. He had a band back then, and he was playing at Club Dada there for some little festival, and Leon Bridges was standing there in a trench coat and a bowler hat. I venture to guess that me and Leon and Vincent met each other damn near about the same time. There were a lot of other folks like that. Ten years later, especially for some Texas guys, you know, we’ve all grown a lot, and I think we have always supported each other and loved each others’ music. That’s only grown, and Vincent is standing there as one of the premier, original, authentic talents to come out of Texas since the turn of the damn century. I’m not blowing smoke. I’m just stating what is already happening.

VNE: Man, that is high praise. I appreciate you sayin’ that, Charley.

CC: Well, they want all this shit to write about it, but that’s just the truth. He was playing in Fort Worth and like I said, playing for all that low money. They were calling him Lefty. Why did they call you Lefty? I figured it was because you had a black eye or something.

VNE: Yeah, I had my left eye knocked out of the socket one time, and the nickname stuck for a while.

CC: I remember they wrote about you pretty salaciously there in the Fort Worth Weekly. I know a thing or two about that myself.

VNE: I would say it was because they were trying to sell papers, but it was a free publication.

CC: Shit, they are selling advertisements. I think the Dallas Observer is still doing that to me.

He was playing them bars, we were playing them bars. I don’t know which one of us is which, but more often than not, he sure seems like if I’m Waylon, he’s Willie. I have felt like that for a long time. You could change the names. I think about this stuff a lot. The business folks, it is always hard to tell what they are doing, but you can be sure they are rolling dice and betting and gambling on folks. It ends up being, a guy like Vincent that somebody like me can lean on a lot more. We can trust those guys, and I’m real happy with who I’m working with, and I’m sure Vincent is, too. It is the other artists living life for the song that gets us through. I know I feel like that about Vincent, and I feel like that about a lot of other guys I don’t know as well as him.

Kind of like Johnny Cash said, “We are all family, even though some of us barely know each other.” I think it is because we can see each other and know we are in the same boat and in that way, care more for each other than other people would. I think it is pretty serious. It is life and death.

VNE: That’s a good feeling to not feel so alone in that way and have people out there and doing things similar to you. They probably think a lot of the same thoughts. Me and you are good buddies, Charley, and I feel that way, too. I feel like some guys out there like Tyler Childers – I really respect him, and I feel like he is in the same boat as us. I’m not as well known as you guys, but I think none of that really matters. I think what it comes down to is that we are all songwriters trying to make our own stories happen and be true to ourselves and honest to the world. I think that the reason we can relate to each other is the same reason the fans can relate. Honesty will cut through anything and bring people together.

CC: One way or another, them folks we are selling tickets to, they know.

VNE: You can’t fake the funk, I guess.

CC: Eventually, it comes through. Speaking of Tyler Childers, we ended up on the same plane flying from Nashville to Austin recently… I was there for the Country Music Hall of Fame induction and I didn’t want to go. I get real antisocial and want to hide out from everybody and shit, and I went to Nashville kicking and screaming. Tanya Tucker was getting inducted to the Hall of Fame with a couple of other people. Patty Loveless and Bob McDill, who I wasn’t that familiar with. I had thought that he’d written the Jimmy C. Newman song, “Louisiana Saturday Night”, which I know real well. To be honest with you, it is the only reason I agreed to go out there, ’cause I love singing that song. I made a lot of money writing songs off of that song, so I figured I owed whoever the songwriter was. Long story short, there in the last week, I found out it was a different “Louisiana Saturday Night,” regularly mistakenly attributed to Bob McDill cause he wrote a totally separate song called “Louisiana Saturday Night” that Mel McDaniel had a big hit with, and that’s the one that goes,

“Well, you get down the fiddle and you get down the bow
Kick off your shoes and you throw ’em on the floor
Dance in the kitchen ’til the mornin’ light
Louisiana Saturday night”

That was a big ol hit, right Vincent? He did “Baby’s Got Her Blue Jeans On,” and a bunch of shit like that that I just didn’t realize. My naive, ignorant ass goes up there to Nashville kicking and screaming, and that’s how I feel. A horse gets led to water or something like that. I saw Tanya get inducted. I damn near built my career off of my version of “Jamestown Ferry” when I was younger, and I realized that she had blazed that trail for me, and I had not shown her enough respect. I really hadn’t. Same thing with Bob McDill. All those songs he wrote and the advice he gave in his speech, and my dumbass could really shut up and pay attention to these folks.

Then I ran into Tyler going from there. He was flying to Austin to do a John Prine tribute. That’s how it is. When I see Tyler, I’m on a plane. When I see Vincent, it is at Monterey Fairgrounds. We are ships passing in the night. All these guys like Tyler, Colter [Wall], Leon, Vincent. Whenever I see them, they got a big light around them, and it is shining. You just want it to keep shining for them, and for myself, to keep it going,

I don’t know exactly where you want to go with this, Erin, but I’m excited about this record. Shooter was telling me about your songs and offered to send them and I was like, “No, I ain’t gonna do that. I wanna be like everyone else.” I wanna watch this thing get rolled out, and I wanna be excited. I’m looking forward to going through the songs.

Vincent, can you tell us about working with Shooter on this record?

VNE: I met Shooter a few times. Me and Charley were at this festival in Iowa hanging out, and Shooter came up to me and tapped me on the shoulder. I’d met him before at another festival but I’d never talked to him. He turned me around and said, “Hey man, I really like that thing you did with Rodney Crowell.” He paid me a lot of compliments, and since then, we talked, and when it came time to make another record, Shooter was the first guy I thought of. I thought it would be such a cool idea to work with him on an album. One thing about him is he really is one of the nicest people I’ve ever met, and he is a genuine fan of music. He’s trying to make cool things happen. I’m so lucky I got to work with him on it. That is the big takeaway from the whole thing for me was making a real good friend like that and meeting someone who gets me excited about songwriting and about making an album and making music in general.

Since Charley cut “7 Come 11” and you cut one of Charley’s songs for this record, can you talk about what prompted “Time of the Cottonwood Trees” winding up in this pile of songs?

VNE: Oh man – that song. Me and you were on tour together for three months, was it last summer? We did a bunch of dates, and we were on the road a long time, and I was listening to Charley do that song every night. It was a brand new song that hadn’t come out on his record yet. I got to hear him sing that song every night by himself, and I just think it is one of the best songs I’ve ever heard. It is one of my favorites from you, Charley. I think it is a fine example of songwriting. When it came time to make this album, I always wanted to pay tribute to you and cut one of your songs on a record because you cut “7 Come 11.” That really ties back into that whole Willie and Waylon and all those old timers who cut each others’ songs and lifted each other up like that. I just wanted to pay tribute to you, and that’s why I put it on the album.

CC: Shit, I appreciate it. I’ll be excited to get the check in the mail. You surprised the hell out of me with that one, you really did. I’ve always wanted people to cut my songs. Sometimes, I think I’d be better off that way. I have so many. I’ve always cut a lot of songs that weren’t mine, probably about half of them. And I got about a 250-song catalog of published shit. I would guess about 40-50% are songs I didn’t write. I feel like I’ve caught a lot of heat for that. People have an idea about me that I never wrote a single song. I think that’s because we live in an era where, like what Vincent was talking about, where all those folks back in the day, across genres, and it wasn’t just country it was pop, folk, soul, R&B. It was everything. Everyone was cutting each other’s songs. I just really think that to write a great song, you have to learn great songs from other people.

You have to watch out for these publishers these days. They’ll just put any piece of junk out as long as they’ve got control over it. They figured out they can make money selling junk. If you can make more money than ever before selling junk and you aren’t principled, and you aren’t that close to the music, well, they don’t see the reason not to do it that way. I think it feels like a renaissance.

VNE: Specifically in the genre of country music, there is a lot of junk out there. I don’t want to put anyone down. Most of the time, I just try to ignore whatever I don’t like. I think that’s the best way to go about it. I think there is room at the table for everybody, whatever you are into. I just think it is so cool that Sturgill and Charley and Colter and Tyler, all these other guys that are out here putting out real, honest-to-goodness songwriter songs. And not just that, but real country music. It doesn’t matter if it is your song or someone else’s; if you are telling that story honestly, I think that’s great. I’ve always appreciated you for that, Charley. I think you are a great interpreter of songs, and I think you are an even better songwriter, man.

CC: Damn, I’m glad I talked to y’all this morning. I feel better.

I’m glad that we are talking about cutting songs because that is such a huge part of country music, interpreting other people’s songs or reinterpreting a song. It feels like that art was lost in the past 20 years or so and it is having a resurgence. I’m excited that you guys are at the forefront of that, because great songs have more than one life. And it is an opportunity for songwriters to make more money.

VNE: I think it is one of the greatest compliments that a songwriter could receive – to have an artist who they love and respect cut one of their songs.

CC: There is no question about that. That is the best feeling.

VNE: It is, cause you know that your songs has legs and can go places that you can’t, which is a great feeling.

CC: It really is. It is such a political world, and it is so divided. There is a lot of pressure on people that you step out there into the great mirror of society, and the more out there in front of the public that you get, there is a mirror that starts projecting on you, and it is tough to deal with. It is hard to know what to do, but the thing about it is – being able to write honest songs and tell the truth in your writing; that is the most rewarding feeling. That is why I always look forward to what Vincent is doing. There aren’t a whole lot of people that I anticipate their new works as much as him, if anybody really. That’s the whole deal. You look over, and he’s writing better and better, and it makes me want to write better, too.

Speaking of, Vincent, can you talk a bit about your writing process for this record?

VNE: I kind of pieced together songs over time. Sometimes they jump out real fast; sometimes it takes a while. And thanks for saying that Charley, brother. Damn.

CC: I’ve been saying it for 10 years.

VNE: That’s kept me going a lot of times and I don’t think you realize that. These songs – damn, what was I saying?

CC: You were saying sometimes they come quick, sometimes they come slow.

VNE: I’m very influenced by the music that I’m listening to and that is why I try to be real careful about what I listen to. I think it is like if I’m making a smoothie. I gotta put certain ingredients in my brain, and it comes out me on the other end, hopefully. I was listening to a lot of Neil Young and Steven Stills and David Crosby. A lot of the ’60s rock and roll and a lot of Bob Dylan stuff. That’s just where I was in my headspace, so I was taking in all that. I try to put it all together to make it my own. That’s where I was at when I was making this album.

By the way, I’m excited about this rodeo we are playing together, Charley.

CC: Which one is that?

VNE: The National Finals in Las Vegas.

CC: Oh shit yeah! At the Virgin Theater there? Yeah man, I’m excited about it, too. Thanks for doing it.

VNE: Thanks for having me on.

CC: When it comes to money and shit like that, just any time, whatever you gotta do to make it work cause I wanna keep playing with you as much as we can and build up. I’ve played in some arenas recently, and I really don’t like it. I don’t know if country music belongs in arenas. And I just mean opening. I can’t sell tickets to no damn arena. And I take a cue from Colter cause he and Tyler and them boys, they could be in arenas all day long if they wanted to be. I would rather play rodeos and municipal auditoriums and really special theaters and stack ‘em up. I think we need to get a goddamned Dripping Springs reunion tour going. A real one.

VNE: Man, that’d be great.

CC: You know what I mean, just do some of our own shit. My aunt and uncle and a bunch of people who haven’t been out to see me play in a long time are coming out to Vegas. I used to live with my uncle when I was a kid in Louisiana and Mississippi and shit. He’s gonna flip his shit when he sees you.

VNE: I can’t wait, man, I’ve heard so many stories about him.

CC: He’s wild. We gonna show these folks what country music actually sounds like. They might not be able to tell who is left or right. Nahhh I’m just kidding it is a bunch of cool people.

Thank y’all for letting me be a part of this. I’m just happy to help out or talk about this. I’m real excited about the album for real. The imagery in your writing, man, it’s like everything you write is getting more and more vivid. You paint such a picture. I’ll stop blowing smoke up your ass.

I’m gonna get back on the trail and Vincent, I’ll talk to you soon.

VNE: Thank you for doing this brother, I appreciate you.

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Photo Credit: Vincent Neil Emerson by Thomas Crabtree; Charley Crockett by Bobby Cochran