The Other 22 Hours: Amy Grant

What does it mean to inhabit a creative life when that container itself changes? We sit down on The Other 22 Hours with GRAMMY-nominated, multi-platinum crossover superstar Amy Grant. Having shaped the landscape of pop and contemporary Christian music for over four decades, Grant found herself navigating an unexpected wilderness following a series of medical setbacks – including a traumatic bike accident – and a rewritten relationship with her own processing speed. In this soulful, luminous conversation, she explores the deliberate art of slowing down, the creative sanctuary of “Craftopia,” and why she now views aging not as a loss of identity, but as a continual invitation to let go.

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In This Episode:

– Vince Gill
– Eagles
– Mac McAnally
– Jimmy Buffett
– Coral Reefer Band
– Barefoot Republic
– NPR’s Wildcard podcast
– Ray Charles
– Cicely Tyson
– Roots (miniseries)
– Viktor Frankl
– Man’s Search for Meaning
– Gene Miller
– Dr. Jim Netterville
– Suleika Jaouad

Go Deeper: 

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Ed Rode

The Working Songwriter: Tedeschi Trucks Band

Our guests this week on the Working Songwriter are Gabe Dixon and Mike Mattison of Tedeschi Trucks Band, the GRAMMY-winning roots ensemble led by Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks. Formed in 2010, their debut album, Revelator, won the GRAMMY Award for Best Blues Album. The group has since become one of the country’s premier live bands, selling out Madison Square Garden and playing more than 20 shows at Red Rocks Amphitheatre.

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Mike Mattison has been working with Derek Trucks for more than two decades. He joined the Derek Trucks Band as lead vocalist in the early 2000s and became a founding member of Tedeschi Trucks Band thereafter. He is also one of the group’s principal lyricists and co-wrote one of its best-known songs, “Midnight in Harlem.” Keyboardist and singer-songwriter Gabe Dixon joined TTB in 2019. Before that, he led the Gabe Dixon Band and build a solo career of his own. Within Tedeschi Trucks Band he has become a key songwriter, vocalist, and instrumentalist.

TTB have appeared on Austin City Limits, the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and Jimmy Kimmel Live! NPR called the band “a deeply skilled and spirited ensemble” while Rolling Stone has praised their “freewheeling, soulful sound.”

I got a chance to catch up with Gabe and Mike to hear about their musical journey so far.


Photo Credit: Chapman Baehler

Basic Folk: Outlaws’ Almanac (Kimaya Diggs & Lizzie No)

Lizzie No, Kaia Kater, Nathan Evans Fox, Olivia Ellen Lloyd, Tray Wellington, A.J. Haynes, and more are featured on the new compilation album Outlaws’ Almanac, a response to the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. Led by executive producer Lizzie No, the project features a diverse range of songwriters and storytellers working in broadly defined folk, Americana, and roots traditions. Lizzie envisioned the compilation as an opportunity to be in conversation with the American project, taking an oft-overlooked perspective. Their curation centers Black, brown, Indigenous, queer, rural, and women’s voices, with traditional and contemporary music melding in a manner that brings to mind America’s promise of being a melting pot.

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Lizzie No and Kimaya Diggs (who also appears on the album) join Basic Folk for a candid and vulnerable conversation about the project and its inspirations. We talked about how they each relate to outlaws and the difference between them and those tasked with protection within the law. We also talked about the significance of the album art by Mia Kristen, a folk art-inspired painting of a woman with a guitar riding a donkey surrounded by corn and flowers. I get into the details of some of the bungled celebrations of America’s major birthdays (namely the 100th and the 200th) and why those celebrations continually leave out marginalized and overlooked voices. We talk about how there are Black people in the future and why that is actually a radical idea in 2026. We end with a lighthearted Lightning Round called “IS THIS OUTLAW?” Thanks to Lizzie and Kimaya for being so open and honest in this intense and special conversation.


Photo Credits: Lizzie No by Mandi Fountain. Lead image of Kimaya Diggs courtesy of the artist. Alternate images of Kimaya Diggs by Jo Chattman. 

The Other 22 Hours: James Gardin

How do you build a sustainable life around your art when the traditional definitions of success feel increasingly narrow? In this episode of The Other 22 Hours, we sit down with musician, songwriter, and educator James Gardin. While his joyous, infectious music has found a global audience through major sync campaigns for brands like Apple, Tommy Hilfiger, and Saks Fifth Avenue, James’s core creative philosophy is anchored in something much more grounded: community, education, and the refusal to second-guess the spark. Together, we explore the nuts-and-bolts realities of the licensing world, the absolute humility required to teach songwriting to eight-year-olds, and how letting go of the industry’s arbitrary rules allows us to finally blaze our own paths.

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In This Episode:

– Lizzo
– Marshmello
– J Dilla
– Proof
– Elzhi
– Slum Village
– Liza Garza
– Def Poetry Jam
– SZA
– Chance the Rapper
– Marmoset
– Musicbed
– iSpot.tv
– TuneFind
– Western States Center
– Eric Ward
– All of the Above Hip Hop Academy
– Trails End Camp
– Brooklyn Philharmonic
– Sinners
– Ryan Coogler

Go Deeper: 

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Lead image courtesy of the artist. Alternate vertical image by James Gardin. Alternate square image by Victor Manuel.

The Other 22 Hours: Lukas Nelson

It is easy to look at a lifetime spent traveling on a tour bus in a famous family and assume someone’s creative path was completely clear. We sit down with GRAMMY-winning singer-songwriter and guitar player Lukas Nelson (A Star Is Born, Promise of the Real, Neil Young) for an incredibly honest conversation about moving past the shadow of his father Willie Nelson’s towering legacy, and detangling his identity from the cliched drug-induced creative culture.

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On this episode of the Other 22 Hours, we explore the distinct clarity that arrives with sobriety, the physiological realities of keeping your body moving on the road, and how treating musical discipline like Olympic training allowed Lukas to fully claim his own voice. It’s a masterclass in boundary setting, honoring the natural muse, and discovering that a long-term commitment to your health and your relationships is the ultimate engine for creative longevity.

In This Episode:

– Lukas Nelson
– Promise of the Real
– Willie Nelson
– Merle Haggard
– Lady Gaga
– Neil Young
– Paramount Theater
– The Red Clay Strays
– Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia
– Willie’s Remedy
– All Things Must Pass

Go Deeper: 

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Matthew Berinato

The Working Songwriter: Stephen Markley

This week on The Working Songwriter, we’re thrilled to step out of our normal comfort zone by welcoming one of the country’s most acclaimed young novelists. Originally from Mount Vernon, Ohio, author Stephen Markley now makes his home in Los Angeles. He attended Miami University (of Ohio) for his undergraduate degree before being accepted into the prestigious Iowa Writers’ Workshop.

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Simon & Schuster published his debut novel, Ohio, in 2018. The book was widely praised for its unflinching portrait of post-9/11 Rust Belt America. Then, in 2023, he returned with the massively popular novel, The Deluge, a work of ficiton about climate change that The New York Times named as one of its notable books. The NYT Book Review also said that, “The Deluge shows the range of its author’s gifts: polyphonic narration, silken sentences and elaborate world-building.”

Of the same book none other than Stephen King said, “[It is] simply put a modern classic. If you read it you’ll never forget it.” He also named it as the favorite book he had read the year that he read it.

Markley also works as a screenwriter in LA as a member of the writers room for the Hulu comedy series Only Murders in the Building, which stars Martin Short, Steve Martin, and Selena Gomez.

What a thrill it is to welcome onto the show such a profoundly talented artist who falls outside our normal realm of expertise… I think there’s a lot for songwriters to learn on this cross-discipline episode of the podcast.


Photo Credit: Michael Amico

Basic Folk: Alela Diane

Back in the mid 2000s Alela Diane‘s The Pirate’s Gospel album was ringing my bell and, apparently, it was ringing a lot of other people’s bells, too – especially Europeans. Her debut album, it went gold in France and she’s been able to maintain a pretty decent audience and career across the Atlantic ever since. Meanwhile, at home in the States – she’s based in Portland, Oregon – after 2013, she remained relatively unknown and undiscovered. That was just fine with her. She worked on her music, occasionally flew over to Europe to tour, played local gigs, and raised her two daughters with her husband in their 1892 Victorian mansion. While they were renovating their crazy old house, they also got their daughters a landline and a CD player each, along with their gifting them their old CD collections. Everything was pretty chill and great. Then her friend and mentor Michael Hurley, “the godfather of freak folk,” died last year at the age of 83.

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After playing a tribute show to Michael, she started connecting more with her Portland music community. She would go to shows, invite people like Anna Tivel over, and started collaborating with others in town. This all led to her new album, Who’s Keeping Time? This time around, she is going full bore on a huge tour, traveling roughly 40% of the time from May through December of this year. It feels like a huge return for the singer-songwriter who is feeling so inspired by creating, collaborating, and being in community again.


Photo Credit: Lead image by Caleb Gaskins. Alternate images by Camille Bruya, and Kelsey Gallagher.

The Other 22 Hours: Judy Collins

“We write to find out who we are.” For over six decades, Judy Collins has been a pillar of American music: from a GRAMMY award for “Both Sides Now,” two platinum records, and an Oscar nomination to writing more than eight books and landing her first No. 1 album at 80 years old.

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But behind the staggering accolades is an artist who still treats her craft as a sacred, daily blue-collar job. In this episode of The Other 22 Hours, we explore the quiet discipline of her daily routines, the sanctuary of her 48 years of sobriety, and what she calls the “secret channels of songs.” Judy shares her philosophy on processing grief through poetry, the necessity of maintaining community in a solitary profession, and turning off the noise to protect the soul.

In This Episode:

Judy Collins
Catcher in the Rye – J.D. Salinger
Antonia Brico
Mark Ruffalo
Spotlight
Hemangioma
“The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll” – Bob Dylan
Ep 100 – Rosanne Cash
Ep 16 – Rodney Crowell
Telluride Bluegrass Festival
Jo Stafford
Barbara Allen
Al Kooper
Al Grossman

Go Deeper: 

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Patrick Donovan

Folk Files: There Was Two Brothers

Whereas “The Two Sisters” murder ballad is a complete, coherent story, “Two Brothers” is messy. What’s the motive? Who are these brothers? Who kills whom?

In this episode of Folk Files, we search for the answers to these questions… and discover a dark hypothesis for why the story is so vague.

(Content warning: this episode discusses themes that may not be appropriate for children.)

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For a list of all musical excerpts used in this episode, click here.
Explore the Derek Piotr Fieldwork Archive.
Support Folk Files by joining our Patreon.


Host: Olivia Harding
Assistant Producer: Aaron J. Morton

The Other 22 Hours: Annie & Cranston Clements

What does it mean to treat music not as a commodity, but as a multi-generational way of life? We sit down with father-daughter side musicians Cranston and Annie Clements. Cranston, a cornerstone of New Orleans music history, has played guitar with royalty like Dr. John, Allen Toussaint, and Irma Thomas. His daughter Annie is a bass player for massive acts including Sugarland, Maren Morris, and Hootie & the Blowfish.

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The duo brings a unique perspective on lineage, structural hurdles, and the profound beauty of side musicians’ journeys. Annie shares her vital advocacy work supporting motherhood in the music industry, including working to correct the stark lack of childcare infrastructure in touring. Meanwhile, Cranston details his wild roots in the 1960s counterculture and how a single performance could dismantle a lifetime of prejudice. It is a study on what it truly means to be a “joy facilitator.”

In This Episode:

Annie Clements
Cranston Clements
Ep 151 – Rob Moose
Dejan’s Olympia Brass Band
Tuesday Night Rodeo Club
Maren Morris
Doja Cat
Joy Oladokun
Bad Bunny
Motorhead
Dr John
Boz Scaggs
Maria Muldaur
A Uterus is a Feature Not a Bug – Sarah Lacy
Lucinda Williams
Angine de Poitrine

Go Deeper: 

Watch: View this entire conversation above or on YouTube.
Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.
Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.

The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (producer, mixer, musician) and Michaela Anne (songwriter, artist, creative coach). More about Aaron’s work. More about Michaela Anne’s work.


Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.

Photo Credit: Michael Weintrob