The Secret Sisters’ Laura Rogers: From Separation to ‘Saturn Return’ (Part 1 of 2)

Laura Rogers and Lydia Slagle are best known for doing things together. As sisters, they’ve celebrated birthdays, graduations, and many more of life’s big milestones together. As the Secret Sisters, they’ve made a name for themselves singing together, with intuitive harmonies that lend a honeyed sheen to folk tunes, country anthems, and the occasional murder ballad, too. But for their latest album, Saturn Return, the duo tried things a little differently.

At the suggestion of Brandi Carlile (who co-produced Saturn Return with twins Tim and Phil Hanseroth), Laura and Lydia recorded their vocals separately for the first time, integrating lengthy solo segments in addition to their trademark harmonies. The resulting record reveals two women at the top of their crafts, reveling in their independence while cherishing the inimitable depth of their voices together.

In tribute to their recording individually for the first time, BGS spoke to each sister separately, too. In part one of our Artist of the Month interviews, Laura talks about the influence of her hometown, self-inflicted career pressure, and how Carlile introduced the sisters to new sides of themselves — both individually and as a group.

BGS: You sang separately from your sister on this album for the first time. What did that feel like at first, and how did your feelings about it evolve?

Laura Rogers: I was very uncomfortable about it at first. I play off of Lydia, and I choose my notes based on what Lydia chooses. We read each other so closely when we sing together. Singing without her felt like driving a car for the first time without your parent in there. But when Lydia sang by herself, even though I know she was uncomfortable, I sat there listening to her and thinking, She is so good. She’s so good. I remember thinking about how glad I was that her voice was finally going to get a chance to be heard without mine, because her voice has so much beauty to it.

I thought, It’s time for people to hear what Lydia sounds like without me distracting them. But I was super scared to sing by my self, just because I … Well, I just don’t feel like I sing as well without Lydia. I’m more critical of myself, and I don’t have her to kind of pick up the slack that I need. [Laughs] So in the moment, I remember thinking, I don’t know if this is the right thing. How are we going to pull it off live? But then of course, after the record was done, we would listen back to it, and Brandi’s theory about it was so… right. And so beautiful.

How so?

While we were recording, Lydia and I really were in really separate places for the first time in our lives. I was pregnant and Lydia was trying to get pregnant. We felt this chasm, the two of us. We felt like we were in different places. Brandi could see that, in her bird’s-eye view of our circle. She knew that she needed to capture that moment.

Lo and behold, a few months later, we found out that Lydia was pregnant too, and we were back on another path together. We had been separate for only a moment. So I’m really thankful. I feel like Brandi is a really good photographer who caught the perfect moment with the perfect light and the perfect ambiance — this really special moment that will never come again.

You’ve recorded murder ballads and darker songs, and “Cabin” on this record — which you’ve said grew out of coverage on the Kavanaugh hearings — touches on a crime that was never brought to justice. What are the challenges and nuances you have to consider when broaching topics like those?

That’s a good question. “Cabin” can really be about a pretty broad range of crime. But we were specifically writing about sexual crime: abuse, harassment, and mistreatment of people by those in places of power. We had a message that we wanted to convey, but it felt like we had to tiptoe around some things to try to avoid any sort of heavy political slant.

Lydia and I are not political songwriters. We just aren’t, and don’t want to be. But there are certain elements of that that do come up in our writing that we feel like we have to kind of carefully craft in order to express ourselves, but not isolate. That’s also true with murder ballads. It is a sensitive subject matter, and our protection — up until we wrote “Cabin” — was the fact that those songs that we had written were mostly fiction.

When [our songs] talk about getting your heart broken, or going through bankruptcy, or being done wrong by someone who is supposed to be your friend, those are actually based in truth. We would never specifically mention anyone by name, but if they hear the song, they’ll know that we’re talking to them. If you feel like we’re singing to you, we are.

That’s the way that we view our music — as therapy. The murder ballads have always been about us challenging ourselves to write songs about things that we didn’t experience. On the flip side of that coin, there are a lot of songs that we went through firsthand and had to process through writing.

You sing about the push-pull of success in “Nowhere Baby.” What does that song mean to you, and how do you fight back against the low moments?

I hope that people can find their own story in a song like that. For us, “Nowhere Baby” is about constantly feeling like we’re arm wrestling the music industry; feeling the need to say yes to everything that comes along, because you’re afraid that if you say no you’re going to set yourself back or miss an opportunity; feeling like you need to prove yourself. As artists, creative souls, and women, sometimes we put that on ourselves. We make these ridiculous schedules that we think we have to stick to. “If we don’t go do this show, what’s gonna happen? Are we gonna miss something that could be really important, could get us to the next level?”

We are so hard on ourselves about our careers. We love music, and we love that we’ve gotten to make a lifestyle of playing our songs on the road, but it’s a hard life. You sacrifice more than people on the outside ever realize. You miss the birthday celebrations and the holiday events. Through experience in the ten years that we’ve been on the road, we’ve learned that it’s OK if you need to just be a person for a minute. It’s OK if you want to just sit at home for a few weeks. Nobody’s gonna forget about you, you’re not going to lose your edge.

You’re from just outside of Florence, Alabama, and started singing harmonies with your sister at church. Did your hometown have any impact on the artist you are today?

Oh yes, 100 percent. We grew up pretty close to Muscle Shoals, which is obviously a legendary place for music. But we weren’t exposed to the music of Muscle Shoals as much as you might think. We listened to more folk music, bluegrass, gospel, and country. And where we are geographically had influence on us as musicians — I mean, it’s this weird little place that’s so perfectly located. It’s close to Nashville, so you get the country music influence. It’s close to Memphis, so you get a little bit of the blues. It’s close to the mountains, so you get some Appalachian music. You get gospel music, because we’re in the middle of the Bible Belt. It’s this perfect spot where these little genres of roots music all began.

I think living in a rural place, and growing up where there isn’t a lot to do other than hang out with your family or do sports or play music, is why we are the way that we are, and why we’ve become the musicians that we’ve become. We are so spiritually tied to our hometown. When I leave, I become a different person, and it’s almost like I have to go back to regroup and establish myself again. I come home and I’m like, oh, that’s who I am. [Laughs] I may get to go to all these great places, but when I come back, I’ve still got to scoop up chicken poop off my porch.

Read our interview with Lydia Slagle here.


Photo credit: Alysse Gafkjen

WATCH: John Anderson, “Tuesday I’ll Be Gone” (Feat. Blake Shelton)

Artist: John Anderson
Hometown: Smithville, Tennessee
Song: “Tuesday I’ll Be Gone” (Feat. Blake Shelton)
Latest Album: Years
Release Date: April 10, 2020
Label: Easy Eye Sound

In Their Words: “I’m super excited about the new song with Blake. It was a dream to record with him at Easy Eye Sound. I also can’t wait to see everyone on the upcoming Friends and Heroes tour with Blake. I know it’ll be a great time as always!” — John Anderson


Photo credit: Alysse Gafkjen

LISTEN: Gabe Lee, “Piece of Your Heart”

Artist: Gabe Lee
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “Piece of Your Heart”
Album: Honky Tonk Hell
Release Date: March 13, 2020
Label: Torrez Music Group

In Their Words: “‘Piece of Your Heart’ is a painfully honest goodbye song. The character is backhandedly apologizing to an ex-love, trying to play off a broken heart as something you can simply pawn away. He makes lists of memories, places, and mementos of their relationship serving as pieces of the heartbreak that need to be thrown out in order for them to move on. In the second verse, the ex-lover deals her own way through various forms of coping, and by the third verse the narrator finds himself almost missing what they once had, saying, ‘And I thought you should know that I’ve stitched up my soul and framed it in gold on the wall, so when the train come to town and they tear this place down there’ll be something still left to hang on.’ But sometimes you just have to sell the farm and start over.” — Gabe Lee


Photo credit: Brooke Stevens

LISTEN: Sarah Peacock, “House of Bones”

Artist: Sarah Peacock
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “House of Bones”
Album: Burn the Witch
Release Date: March 27, 2020
Label: Road Dog Enterprises

In Their Words: “I wrote this song with my friends, Danny Myrick (‘She’s Country,’ Jason Aldean) and Megan Linville Myrick. The three of us always have a lot to connect over, having grown up in similar environments. So when we get together, the conversation always goes deep.

“‘House of Bones’ didn’t develop on the first go around. In fact, it was a different song entirely when we wrapped up our first three-hour writing session. It wasn’t until months later that we went back to the drawing board. We all felt unsettled about the song, like it wanted to tell a different story. So we went into a darker place and tried to get comfortable there. We channeled our mistakes, our regrets, losses, and death. I’m so glad we didn’t give up on ‘House of Bones.’ It’s such an authentic track, and I think it channels and exposes some of the regrets I’ve held onto from the past. It’s healing to let it out. Somehow that takes away the power of the negative energy surrounding those memories, and I’m so honored and grateful that my co-writers were able to share that space with me.” — Sarah Peacock


Photo credit: Anna Haas

LISTEN: Jess Jocoy, “Somebody Somewhere”

Artist: Jess Jocoy
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “Somebody Somewhere”
Album: Such a Long Way
Release Date: April 10, 2020

In Their Words: “This is the song of someone who thinks they need something more, so they run. In their running, we’re with them as they parallel themselves with ‘somebody somewhere.’ Aware that their relationship isn’t perfect on either side, as the end of the song reveals, they come to realize it’s a love worth fighting for. ‘Somebody Somewhere’ came together like a dream — from the writing process to recording. It was a gray day in Nashville and I needed a song with some bounce. The band really succeeded in giving it a good, fun vibe — it feels like a good driving song.” — Jess Jocoy


Photo credit: Patrick Sheehan

June Carter Cash Connects the Classic Eras of Country Music

You can’t tell the story of country music without June Carter Cash.

Her mother, Maybelle Carter, helped usher in the era of commercial country music through the 1927 Bristol Sessions as a member of The Carter Family. When that group disbanded, Maybelle eventually gathered her three daughters – June, Anita, and Helen – and started performing radio shows, with June playing autoharp and cracking jokes. (They even had Chet Atkins in their band.)

In time June teamed up with comedians Homer & Jethro for a corny duet of “Baby It’s Cold Outside,” which charted for one week in 1949, and by 1950, the Carter Sisters debuted at the Opry just a month before June’s 21st birthday. The ensemble opened shows for Elvis Presley in 1956 and 1957. June also stepped out as a duet partner with her first husband, Carl Smith, on the eye-rolling (but quite hilarious) “Love Oh Crazy Love,” from 1954.

If your entry point to country music is the 1960s, June Carter is all over it. Still married to Smith, she shared the stage with Johnny Cash for the first time in 1961 as part of his touring package. Two years later Cash scored a major hit with “Ring of Fire,” which Carter co-wrote after seeing the phrase “love’s burning ring of fire” underlined in a book of Elizabethan poetry owned by her uncle, the Carter Family’s A.P. Carter.

By 1967, she and Cash landed a major hit (and soon their first Grammy) with “Jackson,” then got hitched in 1968. It’s important to remember June’s role on Cash’s landmark 1968 album, At Folsom Prison, performing a lively rendition of “Jackson” that got the captive audience hollering. They encored the performance for Cash’s 1969 album, At San Quentin.

June Carter Cash did pretty well for herself in the next decade, too, having her own 1971 country hit with a song she wrote, “A Good Man.” Johnny Cash produced her sole album of that era, 1975’s Appalachian Pride, even as they dug periodically into the folk canon for duet recordings and she won her second Grammy for the Cash/Carter duet, “If I Had a Hammer.”

She appeared regularly on the groundbreaking series The Johnny Cash Show, sang on Cash’s records, and almost always toured with him. Considered more of a comedian than a vocalist, June nonetheless charmed audiences around the world. In the rarely-seen 1979 performance of “Rabbit in the Log” below, she steals the spotlight with a banjo on her knee, cracking jokes and sharing her talent with a Century 21 real estate convention in Las Vegas.

Even listeners who came into country music in the ‘80s and ‘90s can find a tie to June. She harmonizes with her sisters, as well as Johnny Cash, on “Life’s Railway to Heaven” on Nitty Gritty Dirt Band’s seminal 1989 album, Will the Circle Be Unbroken, Volume Two. Around this same time Carlene Carter, her daughter with Smith, emerged as a force in country and rock, and later paid homage to Mother Maybelle as well as June’s stepdaughter, Rosie Nix (from June’s second marriage), on the sweet song, “Me and the Wildwood Rose.” Carlene also wrote one of that era’s most enduring compositions, “Easy From Now On,” and charted multiple singles like “I Fell in Love” and “Every Little Thing.”

Meanwhile, Rosanne Cash (June’s stepdaughter) placed 11 No. 1 singles on the country chart, including the modern classic, “Seven Year Ache,” and she’s now a cornerstone of the Americana community. John Carter Cash, the only child born to Johnny and June, continues to carry on the brilliant legacy of his parents, through books, museum presentations, and reissues. He also produced Loretta Lynn’s past three albums at the Cash Cabin recording studio in Hendersonville, Tennessee.

Johnny Cash, incidentally, was inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1977 and the Country Music Hall of Fame in 1980. A.P. Carter joined the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1970, “Ring of Fire” co-writer Merle Kilgore followed in 1998, and Rosanne Cash entered in 2015. However, June Carter Cash is not yet a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame or the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame — omissions that deserve reconsideration. A spiritual and religious woman, she shared the stories of her life in two memoirs: 1979’s Among My Klediments and 1987’s From the Heart.

Always a natural on stage, June actually trained at the Actors Studio in New York City after being spotted by Elia Kazan at the Grand Ole Opry in 1955. In the late ‘90s, she drew upon those thespian skills with roles on Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman and the acclaimed film The Apostle. Not to be overlooked is her heartbreaking role in Johnny Cash’s 2002 video, “Hurt,” where the viewers sees the devastation of an American music legend through her shocked and tearful eyes.

Carter remained a legendary presence in the final years of her life — and beyond. Her 1999 collection, Press On, won the Grammy for Best Traditional Folk Album, while the Carter Family classic “Keep on the Sunny Side” resurfaced in a major way due to its inclusion on the O Brother, Where Are Thou? soundtrack in 2000, as sung by The Whites.

Following June’s death in 2003, she was awarded two more Grammys – one for her own performance of “Keep on the Sunny Side,” and the other for the folk album, Wildwood Flower. Nashville native Reese Witherspoon collected an Oscar for portraying her in the 2005 film, Walk the Line. A two-disc compilation released that same year surveyed her remarkable career. She is buried next to Johnny Cash in Hendersonville, Tennessee.


Photo credit: Don Hunstein, Sony Music Archives

LISTEN: Puss N Boots, “You Don’t Know”

Artist: Puss N Boots (Sasha Dobson, Norah Jones, Catherine Popper)
Hometown: Brooklyn, New York
Song: “You Don’t Know”
Album: Sister
Release Date: February 14, 2020
Label: Blue Note Records

In Their Words: “Puss N Boots is a band that inspires me. When we get together to play I want to write songs with us in mind. ‘You Don’t Know’ is one of those songs I could imagine doing with Sasha and Cat while I was writing it. The way Sasha plays this kind of slow country groove on the drums is one of my favorite things and the way our harmonies slink in and out is exactly how I pictured this song working.” — Norah Jones, Puss N Boots


Photo credit: Danny Clinch

Charley Crockett is Suited for Rain or Shine

I had never met Charley Crockett before, though a list of our mutual friends would be long — and would span the country.  I first heard his music on NPR a year or so back and was struck by his style and voice.

I figured I was picking up a soon-to-be new friend as I drove up to meet him at the Basement East in Nashville. Within moments we took off towards our location, knowing the rain would begin to fall at any moment. However when on tour and just passing through a town, that one day is often all you have for the photoshoot — rain or shine. Naturally, we got straight to work.

I count it a very lucky thing that Charley happened to have the perfect two suits to completely match the color palettes I was working with. We started with any shots we could outside, and then the rain fell just in time to fog the car windows for our interior shots. I most definitely had to stand in the rain and cover my gear to protect it all from the elements, but it was so worth it to make these images. We talked about photography, working hard, tour, and life. It was nothing short of a wonderful start to a new friendship. Charley is such a world-class person and artist, and it was such a pleasure to finally befriend him and photograph him for this piece. — Laura Partain

Charley Crockett

Charley pictured in a custom Fort Lonesome suit, vintage Stetson Rancher hat, vintage bolo, and ’70s era Champion boots.


Details of custom Fort Lonesome suit and custom CC ring by Scott James Jewelry.


Charley pictured wearing a Rockmount custom suit from Pioneer House in Knoxville, TN, ’60s Texas Imperials cowboy boots, vintage Stetson Rancher hat, and his 1930s Le Domino parlor guitar.


Detail of the Rockmount suit, chain stitching by Union Western Clothing. A custom belt by Vincent Neil Emerson, CC ring by Scott James Jewelry, and a vintage ancient falcon necklace from Dolly Python.


Vintage ancient falcon necklace from Dolly Python, CC ring by Scott James Jewelry.


Charley wearing the Rockmount custom suit, ’60s Texas Imperials cowboy boots, and vintage Stetson Rancher hat with his 1930s Le Domino parlor guitar.


All photos by Laura Partain

WATCH: Tami Neilson, “Sleep”

Artist: Tami Neilson
Hometown: Auckland, New Zealand
Song: “Sleep”
Album: CHICKABOOM!
Release Date: February 14, 2020
Label: Outside Music

In Their Words: “This song was written by my dear friend and co-producer Delaney Davidson. He wrote it about keeping the Big Black Dog at bay; my two little boys think it’s a lullaby Mama sings only for them. My brother Jay and I wander into the audience at the end of the night with just a guitar and no amplification to sing this to the hush and send our audience gently home. It becomes what you want it to mean, like every song. But, it’s like a warm blanket, a soft pillow.

“This video was created by my other brother Todd Neilson of Valiant Creative Agency. You would never know the chaos behind the scenes! It is one shot and begins with Jay and I singing at the other end of the studio. As the camera pulls out, it reveals we are on the television set in the darkness of a living room where a family has gathered to watch before bed. However, the camera dolly had to roll straight through the living room and the entire thing had to be assembled within seconds in its wake.

“So, as we were peacefully singing, there was shouting and crashing and banging as the rug, plants and furniture were frantically placed by a team of six, the actors rolled the couch in (it was on skateboards!), sat down and had to look relaxed and calm as my little niece, River Neilson, fell asleep. The result is magical and I can almost feel my Dad’s arms around me, carrying me to bed when I watch it.” — Tami Neilson


Photo credit: Sabin Holloway

William Prince Sparks Joy on ‘Reliever’

When Canadian songwriter William Prince cites his influences, there’s one that is particularly surprising: The Mighty Ducks, a feel-good hockey film from 1992. In one pivotal scene, the kids on the down-and-out team get all-new equipment — a cinematic turn of events that Prince has never forgotten from his childhood.

“It moves you in an interesting way. I’ve always gone back to that,” Prince says during a conversation over coffee in Nashville. “That’s one of the first feelings of joy for another that I remember taking on as a young person. Like, ‘Oh, man! That’s great for the disenfranchised hockey team to get that!’ I was a hockey player and loved it – I knew that feeling, I shared that. And from then on, it was about creating similar encounters with people. That’s what these songs are.”

Raised in the community of Peguis First Nation, Prince grew up listening to Kris Kristofferson and Johnny Cash, as well as the gospel records his father recorded independently. For years Prince barely skated by with an unwavering dream to make it as a performing songwriter. By the end of 2015, he’d released the album, Earthly Days, which led to a Juno Award for Contemporary Roots Album of the Year in 2017, and ultimately the opportunity for an American reissue in 2018 with a new track, “Breathless.”

Five years after Earthly Days, he’s currently in a good spot after grieving the death of his father, getting over a breakup with the mother of his young son, and settling into a stable life in Winnipeg. A keen sense of maturity and perspective informs his newest album, Reliever, but the overwhelming emotion in lead single, “The Spark,” is quite simply love — a reflection of his new relationship and a still-burning passion for making a connection through his music.

BGS: It seems to me that you are writing from a lot of your personal experience throughout Reliever. How much of your own life is in these songs?

WP: Ah, it’s everything. I say it’s just a presentation of different thoughts while going through a plethora of things. Change, transition, all of this. The ever-changing landscape of this adventure we’re on now, making music all the time.

What was that transition like, from wanting to be a musician to now being a musician?

I think I was always a musician, always an artist. People tend to make it become about the album itself: “If I just had a record, I would sell CDs and be an artist.” Or, “If I just had more shows, I would be a musician and artist.” The thing I’ve learned now is that it’s all the time off of the stage. It’s all the time working on the stuff, building it, and the moments in between those short 45 to 90 minutes on the stage. That becomes the smallest part of the whole artist/musician illusion. You are living it all the time. That’s the thing — you will become what you put your greatest effort into. Just writing songs and wanting it that much, you eventually end up with what you dream about.

What took up the most time for you, do you think?

I was going to university for a lot of years, trying to find a path into medicine. I took my entrance exam for college and didn’t get in for the first round of the med school applications. I ended up working on the radio as a morning host on an Indigenous radio station that runs across the country. I was kind of staying alive while working on the songs. I was still finding my voice and how I wanted to build the songs, in a way. It’s all the time spent building. I knew there was going to be one chance for one good first impression, so it was important for me to collect the right things. I’m glad now that it didn’t work out back then. I don’t think the record I made at 20 would have been the record I made at 29.

I’m curious about your First Nations background because I’d think it would give you a different perspective than other songwriters. How has that shaped your musical approach, do you think?

I grew up on a reserve where the conditions are as bad, and sometimes worse – and sometimes better – than what you hear the conditions are for First Nations people in Canada. I was always just singing songs about my family, you know? I never really considered our heritage, in a way. These are songs about loved ones, and that transcends everything – who we are as a family, who we are as a people.

Things can be pretty rough in this living situation, like a house without running water or going to shower at your brother’s, or borrowing jackets because we just couldn’t afford certain things sometimes. When that [burden] is taken off your shoulders, like worrying about how to pay for the place you’re living in, to having groceries and an abundance of things now, it’s been the greatest perspective [going from] the quiet reserve life, to living a life that’s prosperous and doing something you love every day. So that influence and perspective is what it’s given me, for all things.

I don’t have kids, but the songs where you reference your son are very touching. How old is he?

He’s three and a half, and that’s a delicate line to walk. You can get “aw shucks” and then it doesn’t resonate with people who don’t have children. For you to say that is an affirmation of a job done in a direction that I hoped for. You don’t have to have children, but you can see that [the character in the song] takes really good care of what he cares about. That’s the message that I was trying to get across.

And the lessons that you want him to learn are the lessons that you would want your friends to learn, too.

Yeah. A manual for being the kind of person that I’m trying to exit this world as — good and caring and thoughtful and empathetic and conscious of all things around you. People are quite fascinating to observe. That will never go out of style. That will never change in season. There will always be people living life and experiencing great things, and going through things. I understand that’s general, but I get asked this more and more: Where does it come from? What is this thing I’m doing? I’m trying to quantify it for people in a more satisfying way, but the truth is, I’m breathing every moment of it, all the time. Everything is a collection, planting and harvesting, I’d say.

I hadn’t realized that your dad made some records, too.

Yeah. I traveled with him when I was 13 to 17, setting up the amps and we sang songs at all the funerals and wake services, all those traditional hymns. Which is essentially Hank Williams music — it comes from that kind of place. So having that in the center taught me basic structure. Somebody once said there was antiquity within my songs, which is a cool feeling, like you appreciate an old kettle that’s lasted 60 years. That frame for songs is in my life because of that gospel music.

Did all of these songs come to you over the last four years?

Funny enough, after writing through a number of things like grieving my dad passing, and a separation from my partner, and being a new dad and feeling that joy, and finding validity and success in this music thing that I’ve been trying for some time. So, all that is a wild blend to be taking in. I did my best to work through those things. I was writing in real time for a long time and those songs, as they aged, became reflective. They would blend with the songs I was writing in a period where I was past the grief and hurting a little more.

“The Spark” is one of the first half-dozen six songs I’ve ever written in my life. I kept it away because it used to be six minutes long and had this whole other side to it. I got a little nervous coming down to work on this next record with Dave, like, “I don’t know if I have any real love songs like ‘Breathless.’” I wanted something like that to share, and I thought of ‘The Spark.’ I quickly gave it a bit of a haircut and brought it in. Dave made his suggestion to save one lyric for the final line — “You’re the flame, the fire, and most of all you’re the spark.” And we had a song. Funny, too, how things start with a spark. Let’s get it going, now that people are looking. Let’s make it count.


Photo credit: Alan Greyeyes