Amythyst Kiah Enjoys Challenging Assumptions

Singer-songwriter Amythyst Kiah enjoys ignoring conventional wisdom and challenging notions she considers at best outdated and at worse reactionary and restrictive, regarding what music she should choose or what subjects she should address as an artist. But at the same time, she has never wanted anyone to label or pigeonhole her approach. Since 2010, Kiah has been steadily touring and recording, both solo and with other artists whose music also cuts across multiple thematic and idiomatic boundaries.

Kiah has a prominent, robust voice and is an outstanding guitarist and banjo player. A Chattanooga native and East Tennessee State University graduate, family and community ties are a major part of her life. Kiah’s father used to be her tour manager and she credits his influence (he also was a percussionist in a touring band during the ’70s) as well as that of her late mother (a vocalist in her hometown church choir) in shaping a performance style that is equal parts edgy and disciplined, adventurous but never chaotic or unruly.

After teaching herself to play guitar while attending a creative arts high school, Kiah would subsequently complete the Bluegrass, Old Time, and Country Music Studies program at ETSU and join the school’s marquee old-time band. Her array of activities since 2010 have included releasing the LP Dig In (cut at the ETSU Recording lab in 2013); the five-song EP Chest of Glass (recorded in Johnson City in 2016); and the critically praised Wary + Strange. Wary + Strange was done in Nashville for Rounder and was finally released in 2021 after going through three different producers over a three-year period before finally settling on Tony Berg. It addressed a lot of things in Kiah’s life that were difficult, notably the loss of her mother to suicide.

Conceptually, Kiah’s growth as a vocalist and songwriter is evident from the opening moments of her brand new album, Still + Bright, to its concluding refrain. Whether it’s the extensive lyrical quest for spiritual and personal growth unveiled with vigor in “Play God and Destroy The World,” or the search for peace of mind discussed in “S P A C E,” Kiah’s powerful vocals and insightful lyrics reveal a portrait of an artist willing to acknowledge uncertainty, yet able to find a sense of belonging and salvation through taking the journey.

Musically, the production incorporates a host of sounds, everything from mandolins and fiddles to crisp, crackling guitar lines – plus memorable guest vocals like S.G. Goodman on “Play God” and Kiah’s consistently poignant, stirring lead vocals. The new album, her third solo project, was already generating lavish praise before its release. It will no doubt continue to garner critical support as well as possible mentions on numerous best-of-the-year lists for Americana, folk, and country releases.

Kiah also has her share of high profile covers and collaborations. The most notable among them include being featured vocalist on Moby’s 2021 single “Natural Blues” and doing a cover of Joy Division’s “Love Will Tear Us Apart” in 2022. But perhaps the most celebrated was appearing along with Rhiannon Giddens, Leyla McCalla, and Allison Russell in the supergroup, Our Native Daughters. Sadly, despite being a pioneering all-Black women’s group, Our Native Daughters’ music hasn’t found its way onto the airwaves at urban contemporary radio. But their LP, Songs of Our Native Daughters, was a critical and commercial hit within the Americana and roots music community. Kiah’s composition on the album, “Black Myself,” earned a 2020 GRAMMY nomination for Best American Roots Song.

All this set the stage for Still + Bright. Kiah performed some of its songs during a visit to Nashville for Americanafest 2024; she will be returning to Music City for a highly anticipated appearance on the Grand Ole Opry on December 10. She spoke at length with BGS about her new LP, the recording process, touring, and her love for science fiction, among other things.

Congratulations on the response to Still + Bright.

Amythyst Kiah: Thanks so much. I really wanted to do some different things on this album, show another side in terms of my personality. It was very important for me to say and express certain emotions on Wary + Strange and say some things that needed to be said. I did some of that with Still + Bright, but I also wanted to do some lighter things, some fun things, present other aspects of my life, and reflect more humor, more joy. I’m very happy with how it turned out and the mix of things that we covered and presented.

How was the experience recording in Nashville and how much did having Butch Walker aboard as a producer affect the recording?

Butch was and is so wonderful. Whenever I’d suggest something to him he’d just say, “OK, let’s try it and see what happens.” He was so open to everything and at the same time he knew when to step in and say, “Why don’t you try it this way?” or “Why not add this element to it?” He was so much more like a good friend and buddy than just a hired gun-type producer. When I came to town for this most recent date and asked him about playing, he not only said sure, he showed up and joined right in. It’s been such a treat working with him, a great personal and professional experience.

You describe your sound as “Southern Gothic.” Have you found that the Americana format works for you in terms of getting the necessary promotion and exposure for your music?

It’s really the ideal format, because it does fit so many different styles and types of music. One of the real problems with radio now, especially commercial radio, is that everything is rigidly categorized. If you aren’t doing a very specific thing production-wise, the content and quality don’t matter. With Americana I’ve been welcome to do and try whatever I think fits and whatever I think I want to do musically. I can’t tell you how much creative freedom that gives you as a performer. You’re not writing to fit what someone else thinks might work. You’re free to have your music unfold and develop organically, the way that you hear it.

One thing that really annoys me is that there’s a sizable audience segment out there that very well might relate to your music if they got to hear it, but for a variety of reasons they won’t. Does the restrictiveness of marketing sometimes bother you?

I want to credit the people at Rounder with doing the best job that they can in terms of getting my music out to different and diverse audiences. All I’ll say about that issue is I’ve found that when people get a chance to hear my music and songs, they’ve been universally positive. That’s all that I can do as a performer is present them to the best of my ability. Certainly I’d love to get all types of listeners; I think Rounder works on that as well.

You’ve chosen to remain in Johnson City. How would you describe the music scene there and are there any thoughts about possibly making a move to Nashville?

There’s a lot more of a music scene here than you might think and a lot of that is due to the presence of the university. But there’s an active singer-songwriter scene here. There’s a jazz and blues scene. Certainly it’s not as large as some other places, but it works well for me. I’ve been able to do a lot of playing in clubs when I’m home and also do some songwriting and collaborations with other artists around town. I’m quite satisfied with being here. That doesn’t mean at some time down the line I might not think about coming to Nashville. I really enjoy recording and playing there. Of course from what I hear about the cost of living, that’s a concern. Right now I have no plans to make that move.

One of your non-musical passions is science fiction. Who are some of your favorites?

Interesting that you bring that up. I’m a fan of H.P. Lovecraft from the standpoint of his creativity in depicting horror and fantasy. Now I’ve certainly also become aware of the problematic areas and that gets into the whole discussion of, can you effectively separate the artist and their work from things in their character that are less than desirable, to put it mildly. Clearly, there are things in the Lovecraft legacy that are totally anathema to me, in terms of my identity and all the things I espouse and believe. Do I find some value and get some joy from his writing from a technical perspective? Yes.

Octavia Butler is someone I’m just now beginning to really do a serious examination of and I’m very intrigued and delighted by what I’m seeing so far, especially in regards to how she sees the future and issues of race, class and gender. The Matrix series remains a favorite of mine as well.

You’re about to get back on the road. Does touring still remain something that’s exciting or has the thrill faded with time?

No, as a performer the interaction with the live audience is what drives you and keeps you going. Now I won’t deny that there’s a grind aspect, when you’ve been on the road for several days in a row or for months. But the chance to see new places and play your music for fresh faces and new audiences is an invigorating challenge. It’s really what you get into songwriting and singing to do, much more so than the dollars and cents of it. While no one would deny that you’ve also got to take care of business, it’s the exhilaration of performing that’s the ultimate reason for writing songs and making music. You get a reaction from audiences that you can’t get in the studio.


Photo Credit: Photography by Kevin & King

You Gotta Hear This: New Music From Amythyst Kiah, Jordie Lane, and More

The last Friday of July came up fast, didn’t it? To close out the month, we’ve got another excellent round up of bluegrass, country, and Americana premieres that you won’t want to miss.

In the bluegrass department, we’ve got a brand new track from bluegrass hitmaker Ashby Frank featuring his labelmate Jaelee Roberts, Dallas Moore gives an intimate solo performance of “Up On That Mountain,” and we close our DelFest Sessions series with IBMA Award nominees Sister Sadie.

Coming from Americana and country camps, don’t miss a hilarious video from Jordie Lane paying homage to an East Nashville favorite, Nashville Biscuit House, Cole Gallagher shares a track that dropped earlier this week entitled “Traveling Man’s Blues,” and Mike Montrey Band serve up a quintessentially country love song, “Holdin’ on to Nothin’.”

Plus, Amythyst Kiah has just announced her upcoming Butch Walker-produced album, Still + Bright, with a lead single that features S.G. Goodman entitled, “Play God and Destroy the World.”

It’s all right here on BGS and you know what we think – You Gotta Hear This!

Ashby Frank, “God Gave Me Horses”

Artist: Ashby Frank
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “God Gave Me Horses”
Release Date: July 26, 2024
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

In Their Words: “‘God Gave Me Horses’ was co-written by one of my favorite Nashville songwriters, the great Connie Harrington, along with Leigh Nash, who is well-known for her solo recording career as well as being the lead singer for the band Sixpence None The Richer. A mutual friend of mine and Leigh’s played me her original cut of this song when she released it and I was blown away by the lyrics and instantly knew I wanted to record it with a rootsy bluegrass treatment. There are a lot of classic ‘prison songs’ that are considered bluegrass standards that talk about despair, hopelessness, and regret, but this composition has a more contemporary and positive message that I think will resonate with listeners of every generation. I’m so pleased with how this track turned out, and especially grateful for my great friend and Mountain Home Music labelmate Jaelee Roberts for lending her voice to this track. I can’t wait for everyone to hear it.” – Ashby Frank

Track Credits:
Ashby Frank – Mandolin, vocals
Seth Taylor – Acoustic guitar
Travis Anderson – Bass
Matt Menefee – Banjo
Jaelee Roberts – Harmony vocals


Cole Gallagher, “Traveling Man’s Blues”

Artist: Cole Gallagher
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “Traveling Man’s Blues”
Release Date: July 25, 2024
Label: Raggy & Balls

In Their Words: “In order to really understand what ‘Traveling Man’s Blues’ is about, you’ve got to understand that I spent almost two years on the road with my father a few years back. Earlier this year, I moved from LA to Nashville, so when I got back out on the road to shoot a video for this song, I had nothing but nostalgia shooting through every frame of this video. I wasn’t much older at the time than I was driving across with my dad. But it was enough time to have forgotten how beautiful the sun looks setting in Arizona or an amazing bright blue sky over the Cadillac Ranch in Amarillo, Texas. I felt like I was both discovering and re-discovering myself at the same time.” – Cole Gallagher

Track Credits:
Barry Billings – Guitar
Chad Gamble – Drums
Cole Gallagher – Guitar, vocals
Jimbo Hart – Bass
Jon Eldridge – Keys
Sadler Vaden – Guitar

Video Credits: Shot by Cole Gallagher.
Produced by Cole Gallagher.
Edited by Abe Barrington.


Amythyst Kiah, “Play God and Destroy the World” (Featuring S.G. Goodman)

Artist: Amythyst Kiah
Hometown: East Brainerd, Tennessee
Song: “Play God and Destroy the World” (Featuring S.G. Goodman)
Album: Still + Bright
Release Date: July 26, 2024 (single); October 25, 2024 (album)
Label: Rounder Records

In Their Words: “This song is about coming of age as a misfit in suburbia. At home, I was encouraged to be curious to and express myself, and pursue whatever interests I wanted to regardless of gender, race, sexuality, or beliefs. However, I was not always met with this same attitude out in the community I lived in and it was frustrating to feel like I couldn’t really be myself. Being a naive kid, I would sometimes fantasize about being all-powerful and changing things the way I saw fit, but it is not up to me, or anyone, to tell everyone else how to live their life. We are all from this green and blue dot in space and will return to it all the same. There’s enough suffering in life as it is, why make it worse by policing each other’s way of life?” – Amythyst Kiah

Track Credits: Written by Amythyst Kiah, Sadler Vaden.
Produced by Butch Walker.
Amythyst Kiah –  Vocals, background vocals, acoustic guitar, electric guitar
S.G. Goodman – Vocals, background vocals
Butch Walker – Bass guitar
Ellen Angelico – Electric guitar, baritone guitar, mandolin
Matty Alger – Drums, percussion


Jordie Lane, “Biscuit House”

Artist: Jordie Lane
Hometown: Thornbury, Australia (Based in Nashville, Tennessee)
Song: “Biscuit House”
Album: Tropical Depression
Release Date: July 25, 2024 (single); August 16, 2024 (album)
Label: Blood Thinner Records, under exclusive license to ABC Music/The Orchard

In Their Words: “As with so many of my songs, I started out writing ‘Biscuit House’ with co-writer Clare ‘Lollies’ Reynolds about something external… somebody else. It’s a way to trick yourself into feeling less vulnerable. And it’s a way to observe the character in a more realistic and less biased way. But long story short, ‘Biscuit House’ is about imposter syndrome. Something so many people feel at some point in their lives, but especially creatives in the arts. And so the idea to dress up as this weatherman character, Tom Willing, to play in the video felt very fitting to explore being an imposter in a literal sense and get completely ridiculous and over the top.” – Jordie Lane

Track Credits:
Jon Radford –Drums, percussion
Jon Estes – Bass, pedal steel, keys
Jeremy Fetzer – Electric guitar
Clare ‘Lollies’ Reynolds – Backing vocals
Jordie Lane – Acoustic, tenor, piano, vocals

Video Credits: Directed by Mackenzie Brassfield & Jordie Lane.
Camera, editing & color by Mackenzie Brassfield.
Assistant Director of Photography, Mikey Haydon.


Mike Montrey Band, “Holdin’ on to Nothin'”

Artist: Mike Montrey Band
Hometown: Spotswood, New Jersey
Song: “Holdin’ on to Nothin'”
Album: Love, Time & Mortality
Release Date: August 2, 2024

In Their Words:“‘Holdin’ on to Nothin’ is about the process of love. It seems, more often than not, the story of love in songs is about the beautiful beginning, the tragic end, or the celebration of sustained love. However, it is often what we choose to hold on to or let go of in the most critical moments of a relationship that allows us to move forward or move on. Sometimes we just hold on to hope and sometimes we’re holdin’ on to nothin’.” – Mike Montrey


Dallas Moore, “Up On That Mountain”

Artist: Dallas Moore
Hometown: San Antonio, Texas
Song: “Up On That Mountain”
Album: Gems & Jams
Release Date: August 9, 2024
Label: Sol Records

In Their Words: “I’ve always loved bluegrass and really cut my teeth and learned guitar sitting in on countless bluegrass jam sessions back in Kentucky and southern Ohio when I was kid first starting out. My mama Madgelee played mountain dulcimer and she turned me on to a lot of bluegrass, Appalachian, and gospel music. Jimmy Martin, The Carter Family, John Hartford, The Osborne Brothers, and Flatt & Scruggs were some of my favorites to jam on and definitely influenced my style of playing and songwriting.

“‘Up On That Mountain’ is a song that I had written several years ago and that I have always called ‘a little bit of heathen preachin’.’ I even had a version of it that was recorded live in the Bullitt county jail but it’s been out of print for a while now. This song has been a staple of my live shows for many years and I’m always excited and proud that my 7 year-old daughter Victory Lee Moore joins us on stage for this one. I had a lot of fun with this solo acoustic arrangement and it felt like a perfect fit for the closing of this Gems & Jams album. Wherever I am this song always takes me back home.” – Dallas Moore

Track Credits:
Dallas Moore – Vocals, guitar
Brian DeBruler – Producer, engineer


DelFest Sessions: Sister Sadie

We are so excited to unveil the final installment of our DelFest Sessions, featuring Grammy-nominated bluegrass supergroup Sister Sadie. Over the course of the Memorial Day festival in Cumberland, Maryland, BGS contributors and videographers I Know We Should shot a half dozen superlative live performances on the gorgeous banks of the Potomac River. From festival hosts the Travelin’ McCourys, Big Richard, and Wood Belly to East Nash Grass, Mountain Grass Unit, and now the Sadies, each edition of our DelFest Sessions has been an audio swatch of the incredible national string band scene we all adore.

With a raucous “WOO!” shouted to the festival-goers floating by in their inner tubes and kayaks on the river, Sister Sadie stepped up to the mics to deliver two gentle, burning, emotive tracks pulled from their critically-acclaimed album, No Fear, which was released earlier this year. The first, “Blue As My Broken Heart,” was written by Dani Flowers – who sings lead on the number – with co-writers Victoria Banks and Rachel Proctor. Evocative imagery and detailed text painting here feel more than appropriate for the setting, in the verdant foothills of Appalachia on the cusp of spring and summer. You can almost feel the blue sky above and you can certainly grasp, immediately, why this group is up for eight IBMA Awards this year – including Entertainer of the Year and Vocal Group of the Year…

Watch the full session here.


Photo Credit: Amythyst Kiah by Kevin & King; Jordie Lane as “Tom Willing” by Mackenzie Brassfield.

LISTEN: The Watson Twins, “Two-Timin'” (Ft. Butch Walker)

Artist: The Watson Twins
Hometown: Louisville, Kentucky
Song: “Two Timin'”
Release Date: May 20, 2022

In Their Words: “We wrote this song while living in Los Angeles. Being out on the West Coast away from our family and Kentucky roots, there were times we would get homesick. Writing songs that had that familiar old-school country sound were comforting and indulgent in the best way! ‘Two Timin” never made it on a previous album as the vibe just didn’t seem to fit on our earlier records. After the release of DUO (2018, The Orchard), which leaned a little further into our Americana sound, we started playing this song as part of our live set. When recording ‘Two Timin” it was important to capture the energy we felt on tour, so we decided to head into our friend Butch Walker’s new studio in Nashville and play it down live. Butch jumped in on background vocals and acoustic guitar and the outcome is a high-energy honky-tonk toe-tapper! We’re excited to record more songs this summer for a full-length release.” — The Watson Twins


Photo Credit: Elizabeth O. Baker

Yamaha Guitars Have Guided These Musicians to Their Unique Sound

Yamaha is on a never-ending pursuit to inspire players to find their unique sound and express their own distinctive, individual musical art. The original FG180 became a bestseller in America, setting a foundation for the development of the L Series and the A series, as well as the FG Red Label series in 2019.

Yamaha leverages their second-to-none technology and traditional luthier craftsmanship to offer high-end acoustic guitars that rival other premium guitar manufacturers. In fact, Guitar Division said of Yamaha, “Their high-end professional grade guitars are made with attention to detail, and even down to their midrange and beginner series you will see quality at least as good as any other popular brand.” Meanwhile, Sixstringacoustic.com observed, “Throughout its history the company has been dedicated to providing novices and professionals with the high-quality guitars, without being too much of a hit on their wallets.”

There may be a number of artists you never knew played a Yamaha Guitar. Since the 1960s, Yamaha acoustic guitars have influenced and inspired many top musicians.

Designed to John Lennon‘s exacting standards in 1977, his custom CJ52 is constructed with a red dragon inlaid on the black body of the guitar. According to Guitar World, “The inlay work employed a traditional Japanese technique called Maki-e, a style of inlay not usually employed on musical instruments because it requires the use of a high-humidity steam kiln that wreaks havoc on the music-making properties of wood. Yamaha’s custom guitars builders found a way to pull it off, creating the dragon from a drawing by Lennon himself. The instrument is the most expensive Yamaha guitar ever made.”

Lennon formulated the idea of that guitar after playing Paul Simon‘s Custom CJ52. Jimmy Page toured with a CJ52 from the 1975 Led Zeppelin World Tour to the 1998 Page/Plant “Unledded” Tour. In addition his own fondness for the Custom CJ52, John Denver often performed with his beautiful L-53 throughout the 1970s (check out that beautiful Yamaha headstock in the video above) Bruce Springsteen‘s CJ52 from 1987 became part of his musical identity at the height of his popularity.

Yamaha made American music history as “Country Joe” McDonald played an FG150 on stage at Woodstock (you can glimpse it briefly around 1:26 in the video below). James Taylor incorporated his L-55 Custom and FG2000 into his exceptional albums and tours in the 1970s.

Yamaha’s current cache of artists is no less diverse or impressive. The acclaimed singer-songwriter Butch Walker, who plays an FGX5, was named by Rolling Stone as Producer of the Year in 2005. He speaks about his producing guitar in this video interview. In addition, David Ryan Harris is an accomplished solo artist and guitarist who tours and records with John Mayer using his Yamaha FSX5. He showed off the Yamaha A5R ARE in a series of videos for the brand.

Yamaha continues to capture the imagination of rising artists, including The Arcadian Wild’s Isaak Horn and Stillhouse Junkies’ Fred Kosak. Don’t miss our Yamaha x BGS Artist Sessions with both bands below.

Yamaha is not finished with their never-ending pursuit of the masterpiece. Senior luthier Andrew Enns in Yamaha’s Calabasas, California, custom shop is teaming up with the master technicians in Hamamatsu, Japan, to develop even more advanced acoustic guitars that will soar to even greater heights. The bluegrass community eagerly awaits their next level guitars that are expected to set a new standard of tone, quality, and playability.

Singer-songwriter Laura Jane Grace of Against Me! and the Devouring Mothers, who plays a Yamaha LL16 and CSF3M, said in a recent interview with the brand, “I believe every guitar has a soul; not quite a consciousness but pretty close to it.”  When it comes to beautiful custom instruments, we couldn’t put it better ourselves.

Discover more about Yamaha Guitars and their custom shop at YamahaGuitars.com

LISTEN: Jewel, “Long Way ‘Round”

Artist: Jewel
Hometown: Homer, Alaska
Song: “Long Way ‘Round”
Album: Freewheelin’ Woman (produced with Butch Walker)
Release Date: April 15, 2022
Label: Words Matter Music

In Their Words: “‘Long Way ‘Round’ is a song about overcoming something difficult, even if it requires getting lost or taking the longer way around. I’m celebrating some of the things I’ve overcome as well as the choices I’ve made that have brought me to where I am today. The heart and mind are powerful muscles that are always willing to adapt and grow when you let them.” — Jewel


Photo Credit: Dana Trippe

With New Music and Rock ‘n’ Roll Spirit, Jakob Dylan Revives The Wallflowers

Dedicated fans of the Wallflowers weren’t the only ones eager to hear new music from Jakob Dylan. Leading into the sessions for the new album, Exit Wounds, the band’s front man showed up with a batch of new material that even producer Butch Walker hadn’t heard yet.

“I don’t usually play my stuff before I get in the studio,” Dylan tells BGS. “If you have some rehearsals, yeah, you’ll work it up, but that’s one of the most exciting things for me. It’s like, I’ve got a secret here. I can’t wait to show up and show it to people I’m going to play with. I can’t wait to see the expressions on people’s faces — and I’m usually right. When something lights me up, it usually lights up other people.”

So far, the music from Exit Wounds has already been lighting up the late-night circuit. Next up is a national tour that begins in August. A few days before the album release, Dylan called in to BGS to talk about singing with Shelby Lynne, the music documentary Echo in the Canyon (for which he served as executive producer), and why he’s a better singer now, 25 years after “One Headlight” was the band’s inescapable radio smash.

BGS: What do you remember about the vibe in the studio as this record was coming together?

Dylan: There are all kinds of different situations that can birth a good record. I think starting out, you believe that things are supposed to be difficult and maybe even combative in the studio to get good things out of everybody. But I can confirm that I don’t think that is true. I don’t know that I ever thought it was true. On this record, the energy and the vibe was good from Day One and it persisted throughout. It was one of those things of having simultaneously what I considered a joy-making record but feeling like we were stretching out and doing great things.

You have a refreshed lineup in the band, too. When you are auditioning for the band, what are you listening for?

Well, I’m not sure that it’s a new lineup. It never has been a lineup, to be honest. The band made its first record in 1992 and that disintegrated pretty quickly by the time we got to Bringing Down the Horse [their 1996 breakout album]. That was already a new group of people and it continued on that path ever since. It was always designed to be my group. I always knew that was going to be the case. It’s been an evolution since then. There hasn’t been one lineup of this group that’s made two records, so it just continues on in that fashion.

But what am I looking for in players? Well, it’s not technique. It’s not technical abilities. I mean, I play rock ‘n’ roll music, [Laughs] so there’s just a little bit of room for that. But you’re just looking for the spirit in people, you know? A lot of people play great. There’s loads and loads of good musicians out there. I’ve worked with lots of them and we don’t have chemistry together sometimes. That’s disappointing, but first and foremost you look for people who listen to the same kind of music as you do, who have the same kind of shorthand in conversation. Then it’s really not that complicated afterwards, once you get that together.

It surprised me hearing Shelby Lynne come in on that first track, “Maybe Your Heart’s Not in It No More.” And she makes a few more appearances on the album, too. What does her voice bring out in this record?

I’m really grateful that she almost became a member of the group on the record. Butch Walker and I thought of her singing on the song, “Darlin’ Hold On.” But everything felt so good when she got there, and honestly, she finished that song in about 15 minutes. We said, “Well, you’re here. We’re just going to keep throwing songs at you if you’re OK with that.” And it just turned into, like, wow, she kind of became a member of the group, which I’m really glad about. I’m not the biggest fan on guest vocalists, necessarily. I mean, it is good at times but if you can get that person to be singing throughout, they’re part of the sound and the blend. I’m glad we were able to work that out with Shelby.

Let’s talk about songwriting a little bit. When you go to write these songs, is it just an acoustic guitar and a notebook? What does that look like as you’re writing?

Yeah, just like you said. The beginnings of it come from anywhere but the good ones come when you least expect it. When you actually make the effort to sit down write a song, that can be very frustrating and disappointing. But the good ones, you could be in your car or walking your dog. You don’t know. It comes from a conversation you heard and you can tell that is the germ of a song and it will nag at you until you can figure it out. And usually the best ones do come at once. I’ve had plenty of pages without lyrics without melody and it’s very hard to find places for those. Words themselves have melody in them — they have inherent melody. That’s why it’s best when they follow a simple chord pattern. When you’re younger, you’re hung up on trying to find interesting chord structures and patterns, “let’s put a minor here….” At the end of the day, there’s some use for a lot of that but keeping it simple and shooting straight is usually your best option.

Would you consider yourself to be influenced by country music?

For sure. I think we’re all a little confused about what country music is right now — and for a while now. When you say country music now, we all think of different things. George Jones for sure. … Not unlike Shelby, that voice is just special. They gave him all the awards for being the singer that he was, and the records were great, but I have to say I got to see him play one time, out here in L.A., and I was knocked off my feet. A lot of people modulate on that last verse, but I watched him take a breath and move it up a whole step in the middle of the song, which I was unfamiliar with. I thought it was pretty cool. You know, I can’t define to you what country music is. Is it hillbilly music? Is it the Louvin Brothers? I don’t really know what that term means so much anymore. I don’t know that it’s what we see on TV so much. But I tip my hat to everybody who’s doing it, either way.

When the Wallflowers were right out of the gate, vinyl wasn’t really around anymore, but this new record is coming out on vinyl. Are you a vinyl collector?

Yeah, I am. I’ve got a good turntable and I’ve got a tube amp, and always have. You’re right, though. That’s a complicated market. What gram of vinyl — there’s a lot of marketing going on. But I do like the act of doing it, as we all say. There’s a different mindset when you choose that record and put it on. But at the end of the day, as far as the quality of music, I just want to hear the music. Yeah, vinyl does sound the best, but I’ll listen to MP3s and I’ll listen to YouTube.

But there is something special about vinyl. When we started out, they weren’t making vinyl. They were making CDs with that big cardboard piece. Remember that? I think a couple of our records were on cassettes and that’s a long time ago. I just want to hear the song at the end of the day and I’m highly suspicious of the ways they keep making us buy the same music we have over and over again. [Laughs]

It’s clear you have a reverence for music from that vinyl era when you watch Echo in the Canyon. Looking back, what surprised you the most about putting that movie together?

I didn’t know documentaries took so long, I’ll tell you that. They’re a lot of work! But it’s interesting because you don’t have a script, you just have an idea. As you’re interviewing people, they say something interesting and you find yourself going down another path. It unfolds as you go. That’s exciting and frustrating at the same time. Some things don’t make the cut because they don’t fit the story that you were developing. Not that I didn’t have a fond appreciation for people putting films together, but it was good to see how that works and how it functions.

It was a good experience and obviously I got to talk to a lot of people. Some I knew a bit, some I knew a lot, and some I didn’t know at all. But it was a good opportunity to step out my own shoes and sit on the other side of the glass like you guys do. Sometimes it was a little daunting. I didn’t want anybody to be uncomfortable and regret showing up. That was the main mission, to be honest, but there wasn’t anybody that we tried to get involved that wasn’t interested. At the time, you’re just piecing it together and you’re appreciative that it’s going well. But I look at it now and I think it was pretty remarkable that we were able to get all those people together.

I think the melodies are a big reason those songs will live on. After spending so much time with the music of that era, did that influence the way you wrote for this record?

It just reconfirmed what I already knew: Don’t go to the studio if you don’t have good songs. It’s simple. That is why those records and those songs are so everlasting. They’ve got good bones and everything’s together. … They’re just great songs. They’re very pliable. I got to explore being a singer [in the film], which I hadn’t really done before. I sing my songs great because I wrote ‘em. I don’t consider my voice an instrument but I had to learn to do that with this big chunk of songs that were mostly done by really great singers. I discovered that I could do more with my voice than I imagined.

Your voice still sounds great, though. Twenty-five years or more into this, you still sound like you.

I appreciate that. I think I sound like myself, but I think I’m a better singer than I was because of Echo. I hear some of my earlier stuff and I can tell how limited I must have been. I can hear myself avoiding notes that I probably couldn’t get to, and it’s interesting to hear that. I can do more things now. But I am aware that people, after doing it quite a while, do start sounding quite different, whether it’s stylistic choices or just age. Sometimes for the better and often for the worse. But I don’t think I’m far enough along yet where you can say, “He doesn’t sound like he used to.” Maybe eventually. [Laughs] I try to treat my voice well and it’s mostly always been there for me. I’ve been very fortunate. I can’t say I treat it as well as I could but it hasn’t failed me yet.


Photo credit: Andrew Slater

LISTEN: ‘The Peanut Butter Falcon’ Soundtrack

The Americana-based soundtrack to The Peanut Butter Falcon features new and classic songs from Sara Watkins, Gregory Alan Isakov, The Staple Singers, The Time Jumpers, Ola Belle Reed, Chance McCoy, Parker Ainsworth, Butch Walker, Paris Jackson and Jessie Payo, as well as a score composed by Zach Dawes, Jonathan Sadoff, and members of The Punch Brothers. The heartwarming film written and directed by Michael Schwartz and Tyler Nilson premiered in March at the South by Southwest Film Festival where it won the Audience Award in the Narrative Spotlight category.

The Peanut Butter Falcon tells the story of Zak (Zack Gottsagen), a young man with Down syndrome, who runs away from a residential nursing home to follow his dream of attending the professional wrestling school of his idol, The Salt Water Redneck (Thomas Haden Church). A strange turn of events pairs him on the road with Tyler (Shia LaBeouf), a small time outlaw on the run, who becomes Zak’s unlikely coach and ally. Together they wind through deltas, elude capture, drink whisky, find God, catch fish, and convince Eleanor (Dakota Johnson), a kind nursing home employee charged with Zak’s return, to join them on their journey.

“Michael Schwartz and Tyler Nilson are very musical and it was clear they heard what they wanted the film to sound like as they wrote the script. We discussed scores they liked as well as a curated playlist that felt aligned with the characters and place. ‘Atomic Throw,’ at the end of the picture, is my favorite musical moment because it serves the fantastical elements of the story – the music branches off from previous arrangements and instrumentation in a nice ethereal manner. I hope audiences see the importance of human connection and how integral that is to love and happiness. Family is what you make it and never be afraid to trust or love someone, or something.” — Zach Dawes, composer and music supervisor

“Music is an essential element in The Peanut Butter Falcon. One of the tracks that feels really special to us is the end credits song ‘Running for So Long (House a Home).’ It was the last cue left unfilled and the whole team was trying to find something with the right feeling to leave the audience with. After countless suggestions, we invited our good friend Parker Ainsworth to come over to write something with us in our living room a week before the movie went to final mix. Within three hours we had written the song, recorded it on an iPhone, cut it to picture, and sent it to our producers.” — Michael Schwartz & Tyler Nilson, writers and directors

“When my good friend Tyler told me about The Peanut Butter Falcon, and played me the song his friend Parker co-wrote for the film, ‘Running For So Long (House a Home),’ I was very excited and couldn’t wait to start recording. I suggested to bring Paris Jackson on board for some accompaniment — she has been a family friend for many years and she had just recently done some backing vocals on a record of my own. Everyone involved thought that she was perfect for the song and her vocals gave it a very special note, just like I feel the movie is. We also ended up putting a third singer on with them named Jessie Payo, who was Parker’s suggestion and I LOVE the result. The Peanut Butter Falcon is such a beautiful story with a wonderful (and much needed) message right now, that touched me deeply every single time I watched it — and I’ve watched it multiple times now. I’m sure it will touch the hearts of so many others as well.” — Butch Walker, music producer

Baylen’s Brit Pick: Greg Holden

Artist: Greg Holden
Hometown: London, but now taking up the LA life after a stint in NYC
Latest Album: World War Me

Sounds Like: Jack Savoretti, Joe Pug, Butch Walker

Why You Should Listen: Some people seem to be able to turn their hand to anything. Take Greg Holden — at first glance, the Scottish-born singer-songwriter leads a charmed existence. At least, that’s how it seems if you follow the blog that documents his globetrotting travels and the Instagram that captures his delicious vegetarian meals. He’s a great writer, an ace photographer, and he has even used his musical talents for good. His charity single “The Lost Boy,” inspired by Dave Eggers’s book What is the What about Sudanese refugees, raised tens of thousands of dollars for The Red Cross and helped build schools in Africa. “Boys in the Street” was written for Everyone Is Gay, an organization that helps LGBTQ youth.

Still, if you dig beneath the surface you find that Holden has had his own trials and tribulations. Now he’s taken his battle scars and made beautiful music with them. Born in Aberdeen, Holden grew up in Lancashire in the north of England, and didn’t even play guitar until he was 16, when a friend introduced him to Bob Dylan while he was working at a fast food restaurant. From then on, he knew he had to learn to play so he could sing those songs — and he knew he wanted to one day live in New York.

But he almost quit music eight years ago. Holden’s record label went bust, and he nearly did too: mired in debt, he reached a crisis point midway through a tour of Europe. Out of that difficult time came the songs on the album I Don’t Believe You, including powerful evocations of loneliness, discouragement, and drinking too much.

Life turned around for Holden with “Home,” the song that went on to become a major hit for American Idol’s Phillip Phillips (and won the approval of fellow Brits, Mumford & Sons). His new single, “I’m Not Your Enemy,” was written with his friend Garrison Starr, who I’ve long been a fan of, just after the election — you know the one I mean. It’s an answer song to a world gone mad. Greg Holden is an artist who wants to do good, a tall order for anyone nowadays, but I feel safe with him leading the charge.

As a radio and TV host, Baylen Leonard has presented country and Americana shows, specials, and commentary for BBC Radio 2, Chris Country Radio, BBC Radio London, BBC Radio 2 Country, BBC Radio 4, BBC Scotland, Monocle 24, and British Airways, as well as promoting artists through his work with the Americana Music Association UK, the Nashville Meets London Festival, and the Long Road (the UK’s newest outdoor country, Americana, and roots festival). Follow him on Twitter: @HeyBaylen


Photo credit: Greg Holden

The Raw Reckoning of Desire: A Conversation with Suzanne Santo

Articulating desire can be a fraught act, especially for women. In many ways, the patriarchal mindset still undergirding society isn’t comfortable with women wanting things, let alone sharing what those things might be. Speaking about desire, therefore, denotes a kind of rebellion. Suzanne Santo, one half of the harmony-drenched duo HoneyHoney, sets loose her desires — all her longings, cravings, and lusts — on her debut solo album, Ruby Red. Named after Butch Walker’s studio where she recorded it, Ruby Red sees desire flicker up like a fire lapping at the atmosphere’s oxygen and growing bolder with each inhale.

The album’s first track, “Handshake,” is a raw, sensual reckoning that blurs the lines between want and need after a relationship ends. “I ain’t your friend, babe. I don’t want a handshake. I need a piece, I need a taste,” she sings, her voice practically quavering for her lover, who wants to shift their label. Santo isn’t prepared to fake it. She doesn’t want to be friends. “Don’t water down my whiskey, babe,” she crows, her voice full of a mettle that gives these declarations an intoxicating power. This is not a shy record.

Ruby Red runs electric with crackling confessions: about who Santo is, who she wants to be, and the many way she’s failed both those identities. But she continually bores beneath the surface, looking for answers that might offer some form of understanding in one song or a greater sense of empowerment in another. After 10 years with HoneyHoney and partner Benjamin Jaffe — both in the studio and out — by her side, Santo is shaking off any preconceptions and laying bare her desires.

What was it you set out to learn outside HoneyHoney?

It wasn’t so much setting out to learn — though I learned a lot — but we were just tired. We love each other a lot and, if you spend that much time with anybody, you start to not appreciate it anymore. The past year, we haven’t toured hardly at all, but we’ve had some great flat-out dates, and every time we’ve played together, it has been so much fun. That’s sort of what we set out to do — an absence makes the heart grow fonder kind of thing.

But at the same time, when I was in the studio without Ben, I was blown away by what I was capable of. We both played these roles in the band for a really long time, and you get used to a certain gear; then you take the other element out of the equation, and it was amazing. I never thought I could do arrangements. I never thought I could produce as much as I did (with Butch). Butch and I worked together a lot; he’s such a safe place to try stuff. This was such a bonus to have all those things revealed to me. I’m really interested in engineering now and working on my own stuff in that way because I never thought I could do that. I don’t want to approach this from a feminist standpoint, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t say I’m usually the only woman in the studio. I don’t want to do things “just because,” but I did have that reignited sense, like, “Oh, wow, I can do this.” I found my boner for it. It’s super scary because it’s like learning a new language.

If you only ever remain in your comfort zone, you never learn what you’re truly capable of.

That’s kind of where I feel the whole world is at right now. Even though some of it is really scary, it’s par for the course of real change that needs to happen. This is when the most extraordinary things happen, and I hope people will continue to evolve toward the happier, more positive things rather than all this shit.

Hopefully! Whether or not it comes to fruition, I don’t know. But hopefully.

I have to tell you something really funny: I have this one friend who really started throwing himself into the brick wall of politics by writing diatribes. Yes, it’s good to be informed, but the vehemence of his blogs … But in the interim of his meltdown, his girlfriend thought it was a good idea to foster a litter of kittens. There’d be these heinous posts and these adorable photos of kittens.

So, he’s basically running Twitter.

Yes, totally. I had to tell you that because I think it’s amazing.

There are definitely people who are angry at what they’re seeing, but they’re not channeling it properly into action. It’s just more verbiage we need to parse through. So, yeah, we could all use more kittens.

What’s even funnier … he’s a very talented engineer and, when I got my test pressing for my vinyl a couple weeks ago, I went to his house. What was so great is that I got to sit and listen to my record surrounded by kittens. I had three in my lap. It was one of the greatest days of my life.

What a contrast between what you’re singing and what you’re experiencing with the kittens.

Oh, it was not lost on me. It was hilarious.

Actually, so speaking about your friend’s writing … I’m interested in your relationship with words. In “Best Out of Me,” you talk about words as shrapnel. And you also mention you’re unloading your gun in “Bullets,” which I took to be you being quiet and not using words in such an aggressive way. How are you thinking of your own writing and its power and its impact, especially in this day and age?

I, too, have anger, but I internalize it a little bit more, and I usually make war on myself. That’s something I struggle with and work really hard to get through. The overall recurrent theme of this record is accountability and recognizing these things, and being okay being wrong, and making sure I know where the source is coming from. “The Wrong Man” is really important to me because, much like the political word vomit that comes out, a lot of time, you’re shooting the wrong man. It’s really easy to be angry about this one thing, but in general, there are other things going on that we all need to figure out. We have to be accountable, we have to be able to recognize our own shortcomings, to say “I’m sorry” and mean it. “Bullets,” especially, is about letting it go.

In some of the songs you’ve done as HoneyHoney, that nuance gets played out in really compelling ways. You’re never willing to lay blame on someone; it’s always about culpability. I’m thinking of “Yours to Bear” off 3. I can see how this theme is playing out in Ruby Red. How, then, are you pushing it even further now that you’re writing more on your own?

I’ve never been drawn to “fuck you” music. Don’t get me wrong: I love Rage Against the Machine, but that’s a different kind of songwriting. I have a lot of really great friends, and I’ve been through some traumatic stuff in my life and have had to go into some serious therapy to reconcile some really difficult stuff. I’ve never been drawn to victimizing myself, or it’s really hard for me to connect with someone whose definition is what’s happened to them. At the same time, what’s happened to you molds who you are. It’s your relationship to it. I heard this quote once when I was really grieving, and it was so hard, but it’s so true: “Suffering is an invitation for wisdom.” But it’s only an invitation. It’s not like, once you start suffering, you have this gateway of knowledge. You have to sit with that shit and clean it off and understand it; it usually comes back when you don’t expect it to. I think, if I didn’t play music, I would want to be a therapist or always working with people in a psychiatric way.

You seem really interested in sorting things out, digging beneath surfaces.

Yeah, and giving everybody the benefit of the doubt, too. I don’t push my therapy on other people. I don’t push my specific journey. I see that a lot, where people are like, “Oh my God, I know exactly how you feel. I’ve been through that, too.” I think that’s a really insensitive thing to say to somebody because you never know how someone is feeling. Know that you can talk and be a comfort — it’s welcomed — but everybody’s got a different suitcase.

Absolutely. And navigating an artistic career that can take you away from a sense of stability means that you’re more reliant on yourself.

Right now, I’m kind of going through some loneliness. Ben and I are still partners in HoneyHoney and we still have HoneyHoney stuff, but there’s definitely this lone wolf thing. I still have really good friends, but you have to go through your stuff on your own. I’ve also lost some friends. When you get older and people change, that’s been really hard. I don’t have a crew. I think that loneliness gets enhanced the more I’m gone. It’s up to me to make sure I maintain contact with people, which I have no pride about. That’s totally fine. I have that loneliness to contend with, but it doesn’t sink my ship.

It’s definitely a space to figure out as you get into your 30s when friends are making different life choices. If you’re going to walk a different path, you have to be comfortable with who you are.

You know, Ben and I were together romantically, and it was so hard. We got to a point where we had to make this separation — I haven’t told anybody this, but I think it’s probably a little obvious — and we needed to heal. We still talk all the time, and we have business decisions to make, and if he needs me, I am there, and if I need him, he is there. But there’s still this parting of ways that we’re consciously doing to have a healthier life. Being in my 30s, there’s a lot of rebuilding happening in order to facilitate that empty space. What’s really cool is, we love the band, and we want the band to continue making records, but we’re not ready for that yet. Don’t get me wrong: There’s no ill will. To become privy to how beautiful of a separation it is, and that people can do it, I feel so lucky that that’s what I have.

And also the space that it’s opened up for you to get to know yourself again and find new creative fulfillments.

It’s great and, like I said, whenever we get together we’re making the best music we ever made. We’re not buried in it anymore, now it’s a choice. That’s how it started, originally. Like a lot of things in life, if you get too much of something, it gets overwhelming.

So true. Well, women are still criticized for expressing their desires and, to me, you so perfectly slap that in the face, especially that line in “Handshake” about “Don’t water down my whiskey, babe.” How long did it take you to find that strength and wear it so proudly?

Wow, thank you. I’ll be honest, when I wrote it and recorded it, I had a real freak out afterward. I was like, “This is so raw. This is so revealing. There’s sex in here. There’s drugs.” I had to sit with it for a minute and find my courage, I guess. I sent it to my parents, and I got a voicemail from my dad. He started crying at some point — I still have it — and he said, “Just got done listening to your filthy, raunchy, beautiful, incredible record. I’m so proud of you.” He told me, “You’re so brave, and please don’t stop telling stories.” For my dad to be, like, “It’s okay. You’re human.” I feel comfortable having these stories as a reflection of myself, but it’s also a piece of art. That is empowering because I think sometimes people have a hard time separating the actor, but they’re a different person in real life. I think music is similar to that, in a way, but I feel really comfortable now. But definitely, at first, I shocked myself. Like, “Oh, shit. Okay, this is very sexy.”

That is the perfect word for it.

I want to write happy songs, but they just keep coming out like this! I think that’s a real anthem for most of my life: authentic. Any of the fabrications or subterfuge that’s created, it never feels right, and even if it’s hard to accept the truth or it’s not as romantic, I’d so much rather have that than some watered down version or something that’s not real.


Photo credit: Marina Chavez

Sweaty and Covered in Confetti: A Conversation with Butch Walker

Butch Walker has never been an artist you could pick out of a song or a record based upon a particular sound. The Georgia native and Grammy Award-nominated songwriter, performer, and producer has stamped his name in the liner notes of albums from Weezer and Taylor Swift to P!nk and Fall Out Boy. But Walker’s range as an artist (and, in many cases, a producer) is most evident in his own catalog, where he’s as liable to show up and rock the hell out as he is to deliver a quiet, introspective folk gem. His latest effort, Stay Gold, is a rock album that shows its country tendencies from time to time, oozing with nostalgia and railing through the kinds of lyrics you might find yourself doodling on notebooks.

I have to say, especially being from Atlanta, I love “Stay Gold,” the song. There’s a ton of imagery in there that seems like it must transcend the specifics, though, and kind of mean something to everyone.

Thank you. I think it was probably one of the first songs I put together for the record. The whole thing was this almost Outsiders thing that I just felt like I related to as a kid. I was definitely not the popular kid in school. I was the long-haired derelict that all the yuppies looked at funny. When I saw that movie, when I was young, it made a lot of sense to me. I appreciated the kids that came from nothing, that had more substance almost than any of the gifted and the popular ones. I guess I just really started running with that. Also, growing up in [what was] then kind of a boring, deadbeat, Christian conservative Bible belt town, where hardly anybody played or cared about rock 'n' roll, because I think their parents scared them away from it.

I had a couple of friends that I could relate to. They didn’t come from the best homes. There were definitely problems there, no dads around and whatever. I wrote a lot of “Stay Gold” about one of my buddies when I was young, that I used to hang out with all the time and listen to rock 'n' roll records. We’d dream and fantasize about being in a metal band together and stuff. I think a lot of people can relate, that come from a small town, to the mentality there of disenfranchisement.

I saw a quote from you recently where you said that the songs are half-true on this record. I was wondering what you mean by that. Is that something that’s common, or the way you feel about a lot of your songs … what do you mean when you say that?

I think so. I think a song will start with something that is something I’ve related to or that has happened in my life, or to somebody else’s life that I grew up with or whatever. A lot of times, to complete the picture, I’ll start thinking in broader terms — almost, like I said, in a cinematic kind of a way. "Why does this happen to the character? Who says this has to always be fucking true?"

I don’t believe that it’s inauthentic if it isn’t true. Half my favorite singers and songwriters growing up, I think, wrote fiction. It’s about entertaining and making people enjoy what’s being talked about and relate to it however, or feel something from it.

One of the lyrics on the record that really hit me hard was, “I just hope you worry about me every once in a while,” from “Descending” with Ashley Monroe. I find myself thinking back to that line a lot. Is there something specific that made you think about it that way? It’s a very different take on “I hope you miss me,” or “I hope you wish we had never …”

That line stood out in the back of my mind. Who knows? I could have just been driving down the road or something. I could have been thinking about love and how hard it is to hold onto it, and how hard it is to constantly be in love and feel for someone.

I’m not saying that I’m the one necessarily saying that [line]. It could be the other person. “I wonder if that person thinks I never worry about them anymore — that I never check in on them because I just don’t care anymore.” That’s a fucked-up way to think, but at the same time, it’s a reality. The candle burns out for a lot of people. It’s really sad. I really wanted to write that song with Ashley: “What’s one of the saddest things you can say in a plea of desperation — wanting someone to still love you when you think they don’t anymore?”

I sent that to Ashley. She was on a plane texting, coming to L.A. We wanted to get together and talk about a song. I said, “Yeah, I’d love to do that.” We got to talking about relationships, and blah, blah, blah. We weren’t even talking about the songwriting anymore, we were just talking about having relationship struggles and being in love.

She said, “We’re descending.”

I said, “Your relationship or the plane?”

She said, “Oh no, the plane. I’m sorry.” I wrote her back like 10 minutes later: “I think we have our song.” I wrote this chorus and texted it to her right in the middle while she was still flying. We got together and she helped write the rest of the verses and we finished it in 10 minutes.

Wow, that’s a cool story. You work with a lot of other artists on other records, and I don’t think I could tag what sound to expect from a record with you in the credits. I was wondering, what is it about a project that will draw you to it?

I think you’re right. I consider that to be a good thing … that you never know.

Absolutely.

It’s weird. You come to [music], growing up on rock and metal and stuff like that — I was producing rock and metal bands in my mom and dad’s garage in my 20s. Then, you go from that to having kind of an out-of-nowhere fluke hit for a teenage pop girl and then, all of a sudden, everybody’s like, “Oh yeah, he’s the teeny pop girl.” You’re like, “No, I’m not really. I didn’t know this was even going to happen. It just happened.”

Then, you’re getting hit at left and right to produce and write for every teeny pop girl in existence. It’s like, “Wait a minute: I don’t know if I want to be pigeonholed for one thing. That doesn’t make any sense to me.” I grew up in so many different kinds of music, and I love so many different things, that it’s not fair to myself just to take [projects] because the money’s good.

I just wanted to do something interesting. I’m obviously doing something I’ve never really tapped into before, but I’m familiar with. That always is intriguing to me. I think someone like Rick Rubin has had a great career of doing that, too, where he might not be as hands-on, musically, as I am, but all producer roles are different. His is just as important, which is kind of being the moderator for the bands, or being a shrink for the artists, or being a big-picture kind of a Yoda character.

That’s awesome, because he can go from making the best Dixie Chicks record of their career, to making the best Johnny Cash record, to making the best Slayer record. That rules. I love all that shit. I love all three of those artists. For anybody to tell me that, “No, you’re just a pop/punk guy,” or “No, you can’t do that. Don’t change up the ingredients to the Egg McMuffin on me.” I don’t like it when people try to do that — try to tell you that you’re one thing. How can that be, when I grew up on everything from Duran Duran to Willie Nelson to Celtic Frost and fucking Bruce Springsteen and Bon Jovi? It was everything. It was whatever was on the radio I listened to. Back then, there was no separation. You could hear every kind of music over the course of two stations.

That’s all I knew, growing up in a small town. It was before there was the Internet, and pretty much a lot of it was before there was MTV — which, I’m dating myself, but that just made it more interesting. I was soaking up music like a sponge. The most fun thing about being an artist and a producer now, and having this day job that I have, is being able to exercise all those influences.

Definitely. You’ve been in the producer’s role a lot, self-producing this record, as well, but you haven’t chosen to self-produce all of your records. Ryan Adams produced your last full-length. What pushed you toward the producer’s role this time around?

The thing is, I definitely didn’t know, on the previous record, what I wanted. I didn’t really know what I wanted, just because I was kind of emotionally numb from my dad dying. I had all these strong lyrics — more importantly just lyrics — for songs that I thought would be really great songs, but I didn’t know how to do them. I didn’t really have any confidence, because the wind was let out of my sails, to go in and try to spearhead it myself.

Ryan, at the time, was just the best timing in the world to have somebody come in and go, “I know what this needs to be.” I think he nailed it, and I think it’s exactly what it should have been. If it had been some big, bombastic, rock 'n' roll record with lyrics about my dead dad, I think that would have been stupid. It wouldn’t have worked. It needed to be this thing that was delicate. It needed to be fragile. It needed to be treated with kid gloves, and I don’t know if I would have done that, if left to my own devices. I needed to have somebody steer the ship and keep the music at bay and let the lyrics and vocals be what mattered the most on that album.

Then, I came out from that tour [that followed], which was a great tour and very cathartic. I processed and medicated a lot on that tour about his death, from the stage and the microphone, off stage, with other fans. A lot of people, after the shows, would come up and be crying because they’d just lost their dad or mom or something. I would see these fans that had been coming to see me play for 10 to 15 years or more, crying on my shoulder afterward. It was super-cathartic and super-medicating. I felt great after that tour because everybody got to get something out of it other than just getting drunk and fucking and screaming and partying. It was like a different kind of therapy.

I love the shows where it’s the other end of the spectrum of therapy, too. Let’s just fucking have a laugh and have a scream and leave sweaty and covered in confetti. That’s awesome. At the same time, this needed to happen in my life, and I’m glad it did. When I came out from that, the songs I started writing for Stay Gold were anything but Afraid of Ghosts. They were very celebratory and kind of anthemic and nostalgic. It just triggered a lot of memories for me that were good memories, after coming out from that, of my youth.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I had a vision for this record. It made sense for me to produce it, because I knew exactly what I wanted to do on this one. We both [Walker and Adams] actually kind of conceptualized this record together. I guess, in a way, he executive produced it, because he knew exactly what I needed to do, and I knew exactly what I wanted to do. It just made sense for me to do it myself.

 

For more on thoughtful, genre-blurring singer/songwriter/producers, check out our conversation with M. Ward.


Photo credit: Noah Abrams