The Delightful Rebellions of Swamp Dogg’s ‘Blackgrass’

Early in my recent interview with Swamp Dogg, the iconoclastic singer-songwriter and producer makes a self-aware confession: “I have read columns about Swamp Dogg and so forth, and I try to find out what they classify me as,” referring to the veritable grab-bag of hyphenated micro genres that music writers use to classify him. We connected a few days out from the release of his latest album, Blackgrass: From West Virginia to 125th St, and the artist, born Jerry Williams Jr., seems unbothered. Later he adds, “When I do the Swamp Dogg albums, I really don’t try to please anybody but myself.”

He has known from the jump that the music industry doesn’t know what to do with him. Working as a singer and songwriter under the name Little Jerry Williams, Swamp enjoyed some success with his 1964 soul 7 inch, “I’m The Lover Man,” and was subsequently invited to perform at clubs in the Midwest. As Swamp remembers, “When I showed up they found out I was Black and the audience was lily white. They were good about it, they paid me and said I didn’t have to do a second show.” The small-mindedness of industry gatekeepers would follow him into his first musical steps as Swamp Dogg.

In 1971, Swamp released his second album, Rat On!, on Elektra Records. He was dropped from the label immediately after the release. At issue was the provocatively titled, “God Bless America For What,” track six on the album, which Elektra had pressured Swamp to leave on the cutting room floor. He kept the song, and his brief stint with Elektra was over. (The album cover, featuring Swamp in a victory pose astride an enormous white rat, might also have earned him some detractors in the office.) Asked if he considered caving to the label’s demands, he quickly sets me straight. “No! No. Nuh-uh. I’m dealing in truth!”

The controversy surrounding Rat On! did nothing to slow Swamp’s momentum as a creative force and in the years since its release, has proven itself a classic of left-of-center soul. He produced artists like Patti LaBelle, Z.Z. Hill, and Irma Thomas. Swamp also continued working in A&R. He signed a still-mostly-unknown John Prine to Atlantic Records in 1968, later reuniting with Prine for what would turn out to be the final recording made by the legendary storyteller. Swamp built a cult following among indie music fans in the know, collaborating with artist-tastemakers Justin Vernon and Jenny Lewis – the latter of whom returns as a guest on Blackgrass, as well. He dunked on the snobbier side of the mainstream with albums like Love, Loss, and Auto-Tune, and I Need A Job… So I Can Buy More Autotune.

A list of Swamp’s credits tells the story of one of the most fascinating music careers of the last century, but he himself tells an even deeper one. He speaks about painful failures, like when he became a millionaire in the 1970s and the sudden reality of wealth gutted his mental health. “The right word is obnoxious, I really became obnoxious, my wife pointed out to me. I was running so much that I would run in my sleep and run out of the bed.”

When the nine cars in the family garage proved insufficiently curative, she got him to see a therapist, a “who’s who psychiatrist” in Swamp’s words. He tells me so many sweet things about the great love of his life, Yvonne Williams. “My wife, she was a Leo. She was a strong Leo, she was a leader. Everybody loved her. Everybody feared her when it came to brain-to-brain. She could knock your shit right out the box. She was the reason I made a little money. Her name was Yvonne and I still think about her.” Subsequent girlfriends have told him he is still in mourning, and a second marriage was short-lived.

Discussing his musical roots, Swamp lists “blues, soul, R&B, pop, just about everything except classical and polka, and gotta add country there, cause country is what I was listening to growing up as a kid.”

His brand new record, Blackgrass, released May 31 on Oh Boy Records, is an inventive, often moving exploration of the genre. Sensitive instrumentation by Jerry Douglas, Sierra Hull, Chris Scruggs, and Noam Pikelny, among others, pairs beautifully with Swamp’s varied vocal performances across all 12 tracks. “The Other Woman,” featuring Margo Price, is an elegant update of the classic written by Swamp and first performed by Doris Duke. And Swamp himself is at home as a country vocalist, playing characters like the neighborhood ne’er-do-well on “Mess Under That Dress,” the lovelorn crooner on “Gotta Have My Baby Back,” and delivering a breathtaking country gospel performance on “This Is My Dream.”

Even as Blackgrass offers country music moments that should please even the most determined traditionalists, Swamp Dogg remains committed to surprising his listeners. “Rise Up,” for example, a Swamp original first recorded by the Commodores – “Atlantic didn’t know what to do with them!”– is reincarnated as a country-meets-alternative rock and roll foot stomper, with a guitar solo by Living Colour’s Vernon Reid, which readers should listen to in a safe and seated position.

One of the great rebellions of Blackgrass is the singer’s assumption, on an album that is being marketed to country and roots media, of a Black audience. He explains, “I’m calling it Blackgrass … mainly because of the banjo. When I was coming up the minute somebody said ‘country music’ or ‘banjo’ … we turned our nose up at it, way up until Charley Pride came along.”

As Black listeners, we are being made to understand that this record is for us, decades of deliberate exclusion from the genre be damned. Its creator is equanimous about how the art will be received. “If this one sells enough, there will be a next record. If it doesn’t, there will still be a next record. I’ll put it out myself.”

Fifty years since “I’m The Lover Man,” Swamp Dogg remains curious about, and frequently explodes, the boxes into which small-minded gatekeepers of popular music have attempted to place him. As he recalls some of the more colorful antagonists along his musical journey, Swamp is gracious in the knowledge that he has had the last laugh. He speaks with refreshing pettiness about his early critics, reasoning, “The people that I dealt with back in the day are either dead or don’t know who they are. And I know I’m in line for that, but I keep jumping out of line. When I see myself getting near the front of the line I jump out and go to the end of the line.”

As usual, Swamp Dogg plays in his own time. He has finally outlived the haters.


Photo Credit: David McMurry

See Photos from Lexington, KY’s Railbird Music Festival Featuring Tyler Childers and More

Highlighting the confluence of roots music and the mainstream, Railbird Festival welcomed 32 acts from across the rock, folk, and bluegrass spectrum to Lexington, Kentucky on June 3-4.

Boasting headliners Tyler Childers and Zach Bryan, plus Charley Crockett, Whiskey Myers, Nickel Creek and more, a sold-out crowd of 40,000-plus helped kick off festival season with a uniquely “Americana” lineup – drawing attention to this hidden gem of a city.

Set in the heart of Lexington and spread across three massive stages and a spacious lawn at The Infield at Red Mile (usually a horse racing venue and casino), 2023 marked the third year of a festival turning the “horse capital of the world” into roots-music central while celebrating the rich musical history of the area.

Jenny Lewis (R) with Lucius by Nathan Zucker

Day one kicked off with perfect festival weather– meaning it was blazing hot and dry as a bone. That was no worry, however, since Railbird also featured three huge shaded areas, plenty of refreshments (it is bourbon country, after all) and a merciful breeze. From just about anywhere on the grounds, fans could see everything all at once – and that included 2023’s festival-season fashions.

Charley Crockett (L) by Charles Reagan

Indie pop chanteuse Jenny Lewis was an early draw, singing smart tunes about “psycho men” and hypoallergenic puppies – and also welcoming Lucius, the Grammy-nominated duo who became something like the fest’s house band, for a rich duet.

Sheryl Crow by Nathan Zucker

Later on, Charley Crockett herded everyone to the Elkhorn stage for some ballads from a modern day drifting cowboy. And Sheryl Crow showed she could still hang with the kids, even calling for more of them in politics. “I don’t have a lot of hope for people older than me,” the feisty icon said. “But you can bring change.”

Valerie June by Cora Wagoner

Whiskey Myers brought their own gasoline (and a match), firing up a midday crowd with their rowdy roadhouse rock, and while Valerie June won her crowd over with a big smile and songs connected to the Black-folk past, emerging phenom Morgan Wade unleashed the pent up anger of country girls everywhere, sounding like a combination of Courtney Love and Loretta Lynn.

Morgan Wade by Taylor Regulski

Nineties alt-heroes Weezer united the crowd in a full set of fuzzed out awkward-teenager anthems – but also showed where they fit in the roots world, breaking out some old-timey three part harmony – and the day came to a close with breakout superstar Zach Bryan.

Zach Bryan by Charles Reagan

A self-made headliner who still carries the underground spirit, he gathered the whole crowd as the sun went down, doing his best to stay a songwriter who “keeps truth in songs.” Leading a country band with strong Class of ‘89 vibes, he mixed tender-but-edgy confessions with a well-placed vocal growl, and finished the night off in awe of the Railbird crowd, noting he was on the fest’s smallest stage just a few years earlier.

“I’m nervous as shit!” Bryan admitted. “Never in my life did I think I’d be after Weezer or Marcus Mumford.”

Marcus Mumford by Charles Reagan

Day two started off much the same as the first: hot and sunny, but with a marked increase of tow trucks prowling the Red Mile area. Great herds of humanity seem to migrate from one stage to the next, with wide smiles and a rootsier, more-acoustic lineup for them to enjoy. Luckily, the pacing was excellent and there was rarely any conflict over which stage to check out.

Sierra Ferrell by Cora Wagoner

Winchester 49 took over the big stage early, dodging beach balls and blasting their gritty country/rock/soul as they welcomed the crowd back with calls to drink up life (and beer.) Old-school master Sierra Ferrell had everyone dancing a throwback jig, and while Flipturn mixed fiery rock grooves with huge, danceable swells of energy (like EDM on electric guitars), Ricky Skaggs charmed as the fest’s elder statesman, and Kentucky treasure.

Making bluegrass look beyond easy (maybe more like effortless), a “RICKY!” chant soon broke out as parents answered questions from dumbstruck kids, like “Is it just him playing right now?” – once again proving the timeless, ageless wonder of acoustic music.

Nickel Creek by Charles Reagan

Nickel Creek seasoned their simple ingredients with a playful edge, returning for their first tour as a blood-bonded neo-bluegrass trio in quite a few years, while Amos Lee sampled everything from Memphis soul to Bob Marley and a bit of New Orleans funk.

Amos Lee by Taylor Regulski

Town Mountain found a welcome home for its foot-stomping, wild-child alternative-grass over at the covered Burl stage – as did Molly Tuttle (who will surely be on a bigger stage next year) and Charles Wesley Godwin, the West Virginia troubadour who welcomed night-one’s headliner back for a re-energizing duet, late in the festival and just before its biggest draw.

Molly Tuttle by Cora Wagoner

That moment finally came as the deep-red Strawberry Moon rose over Red Mile, with Tyler Childers putting a bold, indie-country cap on an already special event.

Tyler Childers by Charles Reagan

Welcomed to the stage by Lexington Mayor Linda Gorton – who proclaimed June 4, 2023 as Tyler Childers Day – the Lawrence County native arrived carrying the whole state’s roots-music tradition on his small frame, and never put a foot wrong.

Humble as ever and wielding the witty cadence of a carnival barker, he presided over a rabid hometown crowd in a jean jacket and rusty-blond hair, matching a voice that could cut Kentucky limestone with hardscrabble poetry just as sharp.

Tyler Childers by Charles Reagan

Over a two hour set, all of Lexington seemed to sway and sing along, closing the weekend with proudly down-home tracks like “All Your’n.” On the surface, it’s a holler-kid’s rebellious pledge of true love, that’s obvious enough. But in this case, that pledge seemed applicable in other ways – to the fans, to roots music, to Lexington. Perhaps even to the Railbird Music Festival itself.

I’ll love ya ’til my lungs give out / I ain’t lying,” Childers and his audience sang. “I’m all your’n and you’re all mine.”

Tyler Childers and band by Cora Wagoner

Photos courtesy of Railbird Festival
Lead photo credit: Taylor Regulski

The Show On The Road – The Cactus Blossoms

On this new episode, maybe we need something soft to counter the hard news many Americans have witnessed this week: so why not dive into the crystalline brother harmonies of Minneapolis duo The Cactus Blossoms, who just put out a lush new record, One Day?

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Sure, you could write off what Jack Torrey and Page Burkum are creating as simply a loving homage to roots pop pioneers like the Everly or Louvin Brothers with an acerbic modern twist. But with allies like David Lynch (who inserted them into his rebooted Twin Peaks universe) and Jenny Lewis in their corner (she joins them on the bouncy tear-jerker, “Everyday”) there is something a bit more biting under the sweet-as-candy close harmonies and hushed acoustic guitars, Wurlitzer and pedal steel.

With a song like “I Could Almost Cry,” you have to dive beneath the aching minor country chords and Hank Williams-adjacent lyrics to find a Beatles Rubber Soul fury roiling underneath. As the soft-spoken mention in this freewheeling talk – what lurks inside many of the songs on One Day isn’t just the story of a broken love affair – but maybe of our slowly-breaking country which Jack and Page see out on the road and try and make sense of anew.


Bourbon and Beyond Music Lineup Revealed

Bourbon & Beyond, the world’s largest bourbon festival, will return to Louisville, Kentucky, on September 20-22, expanding to three days full of incredible music, unique culinary events, and unmatched experiences from the region’s best distilleries at the new Highland Festival Grounds At Kentucky Expo Center.

In total, more than 45 artists will play on three stages, including Alison Krauss, Del McCoury Band, Lukas Nelson & Promise Of The Real, and Margo Price. The bluegrass stage will be curated by the genre’s leading authority, The Bluegrass Situation. The BGS lineup includes Greensky Bluegrass, Mipso, Amythyst Kiah, The Travelin’ McCourys, Cedric Burnside, Ben Sollee, Dustbowl Revival, Lil Smokies, Front Country, with more to be announced.

The event will be headlined by Foo Fighters, Robert Plant And The Sensational Space Shifters (returning after originally being scheduled to appear in 2018) and the Zac Brown Band. Additional acts include John Fogerty, Daryl Hall & John Oates, and many others.

Bourbon & Beyond exclusive VIP packages, General Admission tickets, camping and hotel packages, as well as special event tickets, go on sale Friday, March 15 at 12:00 PM EDT.

The current music lineup for Bourbon & Beyond is as follows (subject to change):

Friday, September 20:
Foo Fighters, John Fogerty, Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats, The Flaming Lips, +LIVE+, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, Lukas Nelson & Promise Of The Real, Greensky Bluegrass, Blackberry Smoke, Preservation Hall Jazz Band, Pearl, Mipso, Amythyst Kiah

Saturday, September 21:
Robert Plant And The Sensational Space Shifters, Daryl Hall & John Oates, Trey Anastasio Band, Alison Krauss, Grace Potter, Squeeze, Jenny Lewis, Del McCoury Band, Samantha Fish, The White Buffalo, Maggie Rose, Patrick Droney, The Travelin’ McCourys, Cedric Burnside, Ben Sollee

Sunday, September 22:
Zac Brown Band, ZZ Top, Leon Bridges, Edward Sharpe And The Magnetic Zeros, Kurt Vile And The Violators, Margo Price, Little Steven And The Disciples Of Soul, Edie Brickell & New Bohemians, White Reaper, Whiskey Myers, Southern Avenue, Caroline Jones, Dustbowl Revival, The Lil Smokies, Front Country

The Watson Twins Turn to Each Other on ‘Duo’

Chandra and Leigh Watson, known collectively as the Watson Twins, are stepping to the front of the stage once again with the release of DUO, their first project since moving to Nashville in 2013. The Kentucky natives earned their indie cred in Los Angeles through their impeccable harmony, touring and recording with Jenny Lewis, and releasing a couple of albums on Vanguard Records in the early 2000s. However, DUO marks a new direction for the sisters, as it’s the first time they’ve focused on co-writing with each other.

With a desire to make a record that radiates with warmth and honesty, DUO leans closer to Americana than any other project in their catalog. A few days before they unveiled the new music at a Nashville concert, they chatted with the Bluegrass Situation about serving the songs, finding kindred spirits, and always, always hustling.

How has moving to Nashville affected the way you write songs, or the way that you shape your songwriting?

Leigh: You know, we were in Los Angeles for a really long time and that’s where our musical career began. I mean, we have been singing and playing music since we were little ones, but in Los Angeles, there’s a lot happening. There’s a lot of noise and a lot of influence and expectations. You’re trying to do something unique and different, and something that stands apart from what everyone else is doing. I think coming to Nashville really gave us the space and the quiet to reflect back on what we do, and to let it just be what it is and not try to be someone else, or not try to reinvent the wheel. …

I think we treated it differently in our past writing experiences, when we wrote separately and then sang together. For this one the co-writing process of doing that together was challenging, but also we’re taking the ego and the pressure away and saying we just want to serve the song. That was a good place to come from in our first adventure of writing together and Nashville gave us the headspace and the quiet to be able to do that.

You have to be pretty honest with each other, though. If one of you comes up with an idea the other one doesn’t like, did you have to learn how to say no?

Leigh: I think that comes with being older and also really not having a lot of egos in it. It’s like, if Chandra would write something and I didn’t like it, I would be like, “That line’s not good enough. We need to push ourselves, we need to think harder on this.” She would come back to me and say, “That’s too cliché, we need to wrap that up in a better metaphor” or whatever.

Chandra: Also, we come from an indie rock background, but we’re from Kentucky, so we’ve always had this amalgamation of a country-leaning, Americana sound, with this indie rock tinge to it as well. Indie rock can be very introspective and melancholy but we wanted to write something that felt warm. When you start to go into that indie rock headspace and become introspective or too metaphoric or too poetic, it was like, “Nope, don’t do that, pull it back and just give an honest statement about how you’re feeling and what this is about.” That kept us on this path of creating a more cohesive record versus just drawing on whatever inspiration. We really thought about the direction of the songs and the warmth that we wanted this record to have.

“Hustle and Shake” seems like it has a little bit of Nashville inspiration, like you’ve got to show up and make things happen.

Chandra: Oh, yeah, well, Leigh and I have been hustling and shaking for a long time. (laughs)

Leigh: Chandra and I have been through a lot of different musical chapters in our lives and that song is really our journey. It’s like our biography, if you will. A lot of people will look at us and be like, “Dang, you guys are hustlers.” We’re like, “Yeah, we just don’t stop.” Part of that is because we love what we do and we love music, and it inspires us and it drives us, you know? Whether we’re being the headliner or whether we’re just outside of the spotlight, or whether we’re on a midnight drive trying to get to the next city, it’s about that hustle and the thing that gives you that inspiration to keep doing it night after night, and year after year, and tour after tour.

You’ve been doing this for a while, like you said. What kind of business advice would you give an aspiring musician?

Chandra: What I can say is be as true as you can to yourself, and trust your instincts, and surround yourself with people who truly believe in you, and have a deeper investment in you as a person and not just your talent. Be sure that you see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, whether that’s your favorite sports team or your morals, or whatever that is. Find those like-minded people, because at the end of the day, you’re all on the same page.

Was that hard to do in L.A.?

Chandra: You know, it was very different out there. I mean, in the South, the people are just nicer and a little bit more genuine at the get-go. I think in L.A., you have to dig a little harder to find that genuine nature of people, but there are good people out there. I think that there’s just a lot of noise. It’s a big city and there’s a lot of different music scenes going on.

Leigh: It’s just hard to live there. You’re constantly pushing against other people’s momentum. That sounds like a weird way to put it but that’s the only way I know how to describe it. Everyone is on a singular path and it’s really hard to feel like you’ve got support behind you, and that push behind you, because everyone’s going a million different directions. Everyone is late and in a rush and strapped for money. I think with that collective energy, you can be susceptible to that, you know?

Chandra: Needless to say, if you couldn’t get it from Leigh’s statement right there, we weren’t living in the Hollywood Hills, okay? Let’s put it that way. (laughs)

Yeah, that probably is the perception though. You’re out there on tour, living in Hollywood, living the dream, but it’s a lot harder than it might seem.

Chandra: Yeah, it sounds super glamorous. The one thing that I will say is that I feel like if somebody has a desire to live in Los Angeles, they should do it. I think it makes you stronger and it really puts your priorities in check. We both worked really hard in L.A., working odd jobs and touring and meeting people and being out on the road. I wouldn’t trade any of that for the world. I’m glad that I had that experience and it really has helped shape me as the person that I am today.

Leigh: You were asking about advice to musicians. I think my bigger thing would be, even if you don’t have a budget or an advance to make music, just continue making music because sometimes we can get torn down. We self-released this record, with the help of a distribution company called The Orchard, and Think Indie are putting out our vinyl. That’s what we mean about surrounding yourself with people who believe in you. We’ve been out of the game as a solo act for a while; we haven’t released a record in five years. We told ourselves we’re only going to work with people who are as excited about this record as we are. It took us nine months to make the record because we were going song by song, but also we didn’t have an advance to book out a studio and be able to hunker down for two weeks and make it happen.

Chandra: It was certainly a really grassroots records in the sense that my husband, Russ Pollard, recorded it and produced it and our friends played on it. We had a lot of people help us along the way that were just doing it to help us, and that’s it, you know? There’s a lot of love and trust and people who believe in us that are a huge part of this.

I know you are heading out on tour when this record comes out. What do you hope people take away from seeing you perform?

Chandra: Wow…so many emotions. We have a lot of fun singing these songs and I hope people leave with that spirit in their heart. This record was meant to be a very warm record, and in our performances we are trying to anoint that and give people that. It’s important to us to share love and laughter and enjoyment with people in times of stress and unrest in our country. We are trying to go out there and let people enjoy our music and enjoy their night with us.

Marching Songs for Defying Fear: A Conversation with Joseph

Joseph, the harmonizing trio of sisters whose big voices are taking the stage on late-night shows and festival bills in an aggressive fashion, may have the kinds of pop hooks you might find at the top of the charts or in the latest radio single, but their sound is rooted in something bare-bones and almost primal, filling spaces like living rooms and small house shows around the Pacific Northwest with the kinds of performances that hang in the air and bounce around in the brain long after the final note. But their rich, three-part vocal harmonies began with one voice — that of Natalie Closner — in search of the kind of aural chemistry that might invigorate the music career she’d already begun to pursue in the studio and on the road.

She didn’t have to look far to find the inspiration she’d been seeking and, once sisters Meegan and Allison Closner began adding their voices to the songs, the trio knew they’d hit on something work sticking out. Their debut full-length, Native Dreamer Kin, was released in March of 2014 and, while the chilling vocals and poetic lyrics set the tone for their future successes, it was in the live setting where the three sisters really captivated new audiences. Playing small shows in unconventional settings gave way to bigger ones and, by the next year, they’d hooked up with ATO Records and signed on for another full-length. This time, though, the Closner sisters worked with producer Mike Mogis, whose résumé includes albums with Jenny Lewis and First Aid Kit and makes a solid case for his gift in pushing strong vocalists and compelling lyrics to their potential. Joseph took the writing process for the record outside the family, too, co-writing with the Belle Brigade’s Ethan Gruska and tapping into a sound that lent itself to more extensive production. The result is the forthcoming I’m Alone, No You’re Not — an album that bounces between contradicting emotions and employs a similarly varied array of sounds and instruments.

You’re sisters, so you’ve obviously all known each other your whole lives, but you haven’t always sung and written together. How did that begin?

Natalie: I was doing music by myself for a while, and I was just not that into it. I had a friend encourage me to think about ways that I would become compelled by my own music, and I had the idea to ask Meegan and Allison. I knew they could sing because I’d heard them harmonizing to the radio growing up and everything, but I didn’t really know to what extent, until we started doing this.

Meegan: Al and I were not thinking that we would do anything musically, at that point. I think we always probably dreamt that we would sing with Nat, but I would say we said yes to it not realizing exactly what we were signing ourselves up for. [Laughs] But it’s been a great experience, obviously. Life-changing.

You named the band after your grandfather and the town he lived in. Why was that important to you?

Allison: We grew up going out to Joseph [in Oregon] a bunch. Basically, we were out in Joseph a couple years ago with our grandpa for a trip, and it was just a really incredible trip. When we were coming home, we were right in the process of writing and recording the album we have now — which is Native Dreamer Kin and it’s been out for like two years — and, on the way home, I had made a music playlist of a bunch of artists. I was like, "What should I name this?" and I named it "Joseph." There was just something about the name, when I was thinking it in my head, that felt like more than just a boy’s name. I’d always thought it felt like it held so much more depth and story to it. I was like, "Interesting — that would be an interesting band name for somebody." But we already had a band name, so I was like, "Whatever — I’ll tuck that in the back of my brain."

We got back to Portland and we were in the middle of making our record, and our producer Andrew, who’s also co-written a bunch on our records, he was like, "Are you guys all married to your band name?" And Meegan and I said, "No." and Natalie was like, "What!?" [Laughs] Basically, he asked if we had any ideas and I sheepishly was like, "Yeah …  I have something." Once everybody forced me into saying what it actually was, it was like something just shifted completely. We sang a couple of the songs underneath that new name and it was like a completely different band. It was like the songs changed. I don’t even know how to explain it, except that everything just shifted.

You’ve made some big changes to your sound with this record. It’s a more of a step toward pop than your previous work, but it does stay true to a lot of the strengths of your previous work — strong vocal harmonies being at the top of the list. What were you going for on this record?

Natalie: The first feet that have been put forward on this album have been the most poppy tracks on the record. There is a lot of diversity on the album, as a whole, and the songs sound really different from each other. We’ve been thinking about that a lot. We really like pop music, and so it was really fun to get to play with that more straightforward pop form and melodies and things. Really, as the songs were being written, it wasn’t like, "Oh, let’s write a pop song." It was like, "Oh wow — that song is a pop song that we just wrote!"

We did a bunch of co-writing sessions, which was also really cool, and it really wasn’t a conscious thing [when it comes to deciding what songs or sounds made the record]. It was about which songs rose to the surface as the ones that we felt like we loved the most. And then, how do we — in production — make that song its best? Then it ended up that a few of them came out as just roarin’ pop music. [Laughs]

Speaking of production, you worked with Mike as producer on the album. How did that influence the way the final product sounded?

Natalie: We needed a guide for this album because, really, we’re singers. We’re not a band with a bunch of instruments. We needed a producer to kind of direct the tone and feel of the album, and to build out the other instruments and arrangements. We found Mike through our label — they suggested him — and when we got on the phone with him, we really connected and felt like he understood the vision for us.

We brought in songs that were pretty bare bones. He created the textures and the landscapes for it, because we would bring in pretty stripped-down demos — just melodies, the vocals, and guitar parts.

I particularly like “Honest,” which is where you plucked the title of the record. What about that line stuck out as a way to tie together the album?

Meegan: It just comes from the back-and-forth in your brain, I think, that all of us do between truth and lies. Just trying to discern what is true — oftentimes, the lie is the thing that feels the most true. That [line] was just from a pure moment of me actually thinking those thoughts in my head. Saying, "I’m alone." And then being like, "No, you’re not. You’re not alone." But I feel so alone, and that’s what feels like it’s true.

But you’re not alone. That is what’s true. I think that just mimics a lot of what is happening on the record, as a whole — just the back-and-forth and paradoxes and contrasting themes of feeling alone and knowing you’re not alone, feeling afraid and hopeful, morning and night, and thinks like this.

Natalie: The record holds a lot of tension, so that line from the song “Honest,” it really encapsulates that tension throughout the record.

White Flag” is about facing things that scare you. What are some of the things you had to face that scared you when you were writing it, and what are the things you’ve had to face since then, tackling things as a band?

Natalie: At the time, it was really a response to that New Yorker article that came out about the earthquake that was supposed to hit the West Coast. It was really oppressive for us. You’re walking around like something’s going to happen at any second. At some point, we just kind of had to break that. What are we going to do, are we never going to go home? Are we going to move away? No, absolutely not. We’re going to keep living our lives and we’re not going to live in fear of these things.

It’s been really interesting. Since the song has been written, I’ve needed it, honestly, and sung it to myself so many times. There are so many things in our culture of fear in this country to be worried about. The world is scary. There’s a lot of tough stuff happening right now — even just getting on a plane, or being in a foreign country. There’s so much risk and so many possible [outcomes]. There’s this great quote that I love that I found in processing this whole idea of the world that we live in right now, where you could slink back into yourself and into self-protection and stay in your house and never go anywhere. A friend shared with me a statement made by C.S. Lewis during the time when the atomic bombs were supposed to potentially hit at any moment, anywhere. He basically says his response to living in an "atomic age" is, "If the bombs are going to come, let them find us drinking beers with friends and laughing and enjoying our lives, not cowering like scared sheep waiting for a bomb." Isn’t that good?

That’s kind of what it’s meant. There are so many daunting things that you face in this lifestyle, too, putting yourself in front of people all of the time. It has been exactly what it says — it’s just this marching song for living your life and defying fear.

 

Like Joseph? Check out our Cover Story on My Bubba.


Photo credit: Ebru Yildiz

MIXTAPE: Esmé Patterson’s Summer Songs

Summer jams! What is better than driving across America listening to great tunes in the Summer time? Nothing, y'all. Here are a collection of my favorite songs right now — songs that seem to be on repeat in my tour van. A few songs by friends, a few by people I wish were my friends, and some wild cards to keep it interesting. Hope you dig!

Kevin Morby — "Singing Saw" 
A record that I loved the second I first heard it, driving solo up the West Coast from L.A. to Portland. The guitar solo in this song is so rad!

Nice as Fuck — "Guns"
From a record that we've been digging a lot in the van. It's so refreshing to hear brave, well-written political music from smart, empowered women.

Thao & the Get Down Stay Down — "Millionaire"
This song is such a brave tune. It is so personal and raw. It reminded me that real strength comes from vulnerability. And a fun fact: The bass player in this band, Adam Thompson, produced and played all the bass on my new album.

Mothers — "Too Small For Eyes"
My favorite new band and label-mates on Grand Jury Music. This song is another example of a woman telling it like it is for her, having the courage to expose her beauty and flaws to the world. Man, I love this band so much.

Twin Peaks — "Making Breakfast"
Another super-great band on Grand Jury Music with me. This is such a fun live band, and I am really digging their new album — perfect Summer rock 'n' roll jams.

Minden — "Artist Statement"
Off their album about to be released on August 5. This is a really awesome band here in Portland, Oregon — gets me dancing every time, and the musicianship — as well as the quality of the songs and recordings — is pretty mind-blowing. Really groovy Summer vibes. Stay tuned for this album release.

Broncho — "What"
I just discovered this band and their fun, catchy, sing-along, rocking pop tunes. Great Summer driving music.

Beyoncé — "Drunk in Love"
I am currently drunk in love, too. Feeling this. Surfboard!

Awful Truth — "Cold Grey Sky"
I'm so excited to have Awful Truth opening for me in the Midwest for my album release tour. Brent is a force to be reckoned with — his compositions are so dreamy and captivating.

Harry Nilsson — "Coconut"
Because we were listening to the radio while driving into L.A. to play a show recently, and the DJ was playing his favorite Summer songs, and I had to include this perfect Summer song on my list, too.


Photo credit: Daniel Topete