Artist:Blue Cactus Hometown: Chapel Hill, North Carolina Latest Album:Believer Personal Nicknames: Steph and Mar
If you had to write a mission statement for your career, what would it be?
“Slow and steady, always be on the rise.” I used to think I wanted to “make it” and I worked so hard at that, that it almost broke me, literally. I had stressed myself to the point that my mental stress had begun to manifest physically as various chronic health issues. I want to be a successful musician, which means for me that I am constantly making the music I want to create and not restricting myself to any specific rules or genre limitations. Once you “make it” there’s really only one place to go from there and so many artists have shared that their least happiest times were when their career was at its peak. I want to always be climbing, up and up, constantly evolving and learning new things about myself and abilities. – Steph
What other art forms – literature, film, dance, painting, etc. – inform your music?
I’m a perpetual hobbyist at heart and am always dabbling in some form of visual art – from film photography and cyanotype to linocut print-making and botanical dyeing – I find that having these other forms of art keeps me curious and inspired, which in turn feeds my inner-songwriter. When I look at my calendar, so much of my life feels planned out and I savor the mystery and surprise of what the film will reveal when it’s developed or how one print will vary from another when I lift the paper. It’s become essential for me to make art for myself that is separate from the business of making music and it’s taught me to embrace the happy accidents of art and re-framed my relationship with perfectionism. – Steph
Genre is dead (long live genre!), but how would you describe the genres and styles your music inhabits?
We have a deep love and respect for country and folk music, which is a sort of foundation for the music we make. There’s a bit of psychedelia and art rock swirling around, too, which seems to move us toward alt-country and cosmic country. We aspire to create songs that are strong enough to exist in varied genres, they just happen to be delivered in our vernacular. – Mario
If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?
Working in music has meant that I’ve also needed some other work to help pay the bills and I’ve been very fortunate to have been an instructor at a local outdoor nature program near our home in Chapel Hill, working with kids. I grew up in a very rural part of Catawba County, in the foothills of North Carolina, and was always out playing in the woods, building forts, and climbing trees. This work has kept me grounded and saved me from burnout. I suppose I’d just keep doing more of it if I changed career paths. – Steph
Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?
I’m thinking comfort food: meatloaf, mashed potatoes and gravy, and green beans paired with Roy Orbison. In particular, the album Crying. – Mario
Singer-songwriter Lilly Hiatt has an interesting way of working melodies and a down-to-earth way of telling stories about her life and about how she sees the world. All of her albums have cool, crunchy guitar parts that take folk songwriting to a rockin’ level. On her new album, Forever, her diverse influences are woven into songs that touch on everything from relationships to anxiety and mental health to good old-fashioned rock and roll.
In our Basic Folk conversation, we talked about the lessons that Lilly learned growing up the daughter of legendary songwriter John Hiatt and what it meant to her to see her dad go through the ups and downs of the music business while having the humility and self-belief to keep going. She also talks about how she thinks about herself as a performer – and how that’s changed since the pandemic. Before the pandemic Hiatt had a couple of really big records (Trinity Lane, 2017 and Walking Proof, 2020) that gained a lot of hype and attention. Once coronavirus hit, she had to sit in the house and ask the big questions like a lot of us did. She sat with the loneliness, alienation, and uncertainty.
You can hear in our interview just how much mutual respect and admiration we have for each other and how much belief we have in one another, not only as songwriters, but as women and as people who are in recovery. Very LYLAS vibes, lots of laughs.
For years, Jett Holden dreamt and dreamt about making a living through music, but everywhere he turned he was met with doubt, subtle prejudice, and closeted racism that left him running on empty and searching for something new.
Following a journey to rock bottom, Holden is back stronger than ever on The Phoenix, a 10-song collection that catalogs his rise from the ashes and spotlights the community that embraced him when it seemed nobody else would. Told through a mix of countrypolitan, rock, punk, metal, and R&B sounds, the record is proof that there are no boundaries to who, where, and what good music can come from – and that we all benefit from everyone having a seat at the table, sharing their stories and perspectives.
“This album reflects who I’ve been throughout my entire life,” Holden explains to Good Country. “It’s been really cool to look back on when and where my different influences come from while bringing these songs to life. For example, ‘Karma’ is definitely Paramore meets Stapleton, while ‘West Virginia Sky’ harkens to my Tracy Chapman and Jim Croce influences.”
Fresh off a move to Nashville, Holden spoke with GC over the phone about the doubt and prejudice he’s faced along his musical journey, his work with the Black Opry, using music to heal past trauma, and more.
There’s a lot going on in your song ‘Scarecrow,’ from exploring your family’s reaction to coming out to masking the crippling weight of other’s doubts of what you’re capable of – along with a slew of Wizard of Oz references to the scarecrow, tin man, and cowardly lion. Mind sharing how all those ideas coalesced into one?
Jett Holden: It’s the first song I finished for the album. I wrote it back when I was 25, and at that point my family and I didn’t really have a personal relationship. It had gotten to the point where I came out 10 years earlier and wasn’t sure where I stood with them. I wasn’t disowned, but I also didn’t have anyone to turn to – they all pretty much told me they didn’t want to hear about it. I didn’t want to keep living in limbo, so a few years later I skipped town and moved to East Tennessee, which is where [Black Opry founder Holly G] found me in 2021.
You also had a brief stint living in California around this time that left you on the brink of quitting music for good. What all transpired out there?
I moved out to Long Beach after dropping out of community college. I was in talks about a development deal and during the “get-to-know-you” phase I let it slip that I was gay and they responded by saying that I wasn’t marketable as a Black, gay man doing the kind of music that I wanted to do. Things fell apart from there, which is why I left California and moved back to Virginia before eventually relocating to Tennessee.
Aside from that moment, were there any other circumstances that contributed to you feeling so defeated about your music prospects?
When I first moved out West, there was a very steep trajectory that isn’t common for most people, but it quickly deteriorated after I mentioned being gay, making for a really high peak and a really low low. When I returned to Virginia things got stagnant and didn’t progress at all, even moving backwards at times. It was a frustrating time of trying to figure myself out that culminated in the move to East Tennessee where I was roommates with a close friend before coming home one day after she committed suicide.
Another of my friends got cancer around the same time and just recently passed too, so those were very traumatic years for me. By 2020, I just couldn’t do it anymore, so I started going to therapy right before the pandemic hit and the world shut down. Suddenly [music] was just too much to deal with, so I stopped making it. Being online was toxic so I shut down, got a stay-at-home job with AT&T, and accepted that as my future, working my way up in the company.
Then Holly — and the Black Opry — came around?
Exactly. I’d already called it quits when she found me on Instagram through a video I’d posted of my song “Taxidermy.” I only had that and a couple other covers posted, but it was enough for her to take interest and slowly pull me back into the industry. A couple months later she launched the Black Opry as a blog and it’s crazy to see where things have gone since then.
Within a year I’d gotten to tour all over the country, appear on The Kelly Clarkson Show, and I recorded my first single and EP through a grant I received from [Rissi Palmer’s] Color Me Country. Holly has made so many things possible that had been unavailable to me for my entire career until then, fighting for me in ways nobody else had before. She took chances because she wasn’t an industry person, but rather a flight attendant who was just a fan of country music and wanted to feel connected to it and the artists she was listening to, which is something a lot of others were in search of as well.
When I went to the first outlaw house she threw at Americanafest in 2021, I was expecting a bunch of Black country fans to show up, but it was also the queer community, the Latin community, and the women in country music that didn’t feel like they were getting a fair shake of things. Everyone who felt “othered” in country music showed up and it felt like immediate family. Seeing the excitement around that is what drew me back in.
Speaking of your song “Taxidermy,” I remember you being brought to tears while singing it during a Black Opry panel at Americanafest that same year. What’s that song meant to you, both in its message and what it’s meant to your career?
That song relaunched my career essentially, because I wasn’t chasing music when I wrote it. In fact, when I posted it online I only had one verse and the chorus. Despite it not being complete, Holly still sent it off to Rissi Palmer and got me the grant and I finished writing it the day we recorded. It’s a song of frustration that I didn’t expect many people to watch when I posted it, but Holly really connected with it, spread it around, and helped it blow up into something bigger than I ever imagined.
I was just singing about my frustrations with what was going on around our country at the time concerning police brutality, which was a big reason why I quit social media and music altogether in 2020. Instagram was the [only] online account I had when Holly found me. That song allowed me to vent about those things, but it also helped me gain the community I needed to break myself out of the news cycle that we were constantly absorbing, because we had nowhere to go. The song came about out of all that negativity, but had a huge positive impact on me that I never expected.
In addition to the support you’ve received from the Black Opry, you’ve also got a helluva team behind you for this record including the folks at Thirty Tigers, [producer] Will Hoge, and collaborators like John Osborne and Charlie Worsham (“Backwoods Proclamation”), Cassadee Pope (“Karma”), and Emily Scott Robinson (“When I’m Gone”). I imagine that, after everything you’ve been through, having folks like that working alongside you is incredibly validating?
Definitely! Emily was the first person I asked, since she was a very early supporter of the Black Opry. We both connected over “When I’m Gone” and our similar stories [around] suicide, so it was a no-brainer to have her sing with me on it. Holly ended up reaching out to Cassadee after I mentioned wanting someone similar to Hayley Williams featured, and she nailed it. It’s very cool seeing all these people I’ve looked up to legitimately wanting to work with me. I still haven’t met Charlie or John, but it’s wild knowing that they’ve heard my song and wanted to be involved in it.
Regarding “When I’m Gone,” is that a reference to your friend in East Tennessee that you walked in on after committing suicide? If so I’m sorry for your loss, but I love how you used the song to memorialize them and bring attention to the plight of suicide. It’s an awful thing to experience, but putting your feelings from it to song is a great way to bring beauty to an otherwise unimaginable situation.
You’re completely right. When I play songs like “When I’m Gone” or “Scarecrow” live I always have people coming up to talk to me about them afterwards, whether it’s someone who’s come out, dealt with religious trauma, or a person who’s just lost somebody close to them. There’s something very cathartic and heavy all at once that’s led to a lot of crying, but more importantly a lot of growth. It’s been great feeling like I’m not going unheard – which I did for over a decade – and having interest in what I’m doing where there wasn’t any before.
We’ve talked about a lot of the trauma captured in these songs, which brings me to the album’s title, The Phoenix. Is that reference meant to reflect how your life — specifically your musical dreams — have been reborn in recent years?
That was the intention. It was about the resurrection of my career, plus I also referenced the phoenix in “West Virginia Sky,” so it felt appropriate. Then, weirdly enough, just after recording the album I had a friend, also named Holly, give me a phoenix bolo tie for Christmas. It was a very kismet occurrence and a sign that that was the correct title to move forward with on the project. It makes for the perfect project, one where I have creative control and wrote every song (besides co-writing “Backwoods Proclamation”). I put my heart and soul into it, and am really excited for people to hear it.
If you could go back in time to speak with yourself when you were about to call it quits, what would you tell them?
Prioritize the relationships you build, because those are the people that will help you get to where you are supposed to be.
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My little brother and best friend, Clay Hollis, is my guest on Only Vans today! Of course we talk about what he’s been up to and his latest song, and then dig deep into… our live sound rigs!? I hope this episode gives you a ton of new insight into the high level of knowledge that’s needed to tour like we do as independent artists, but (full disclosure) the second half might go right over your head if you’re not interested in the audio nitty gritty. Enjoy!
Editor’s Note: Only Vans with Bri Bagwell is the latest addition to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about the podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.
One of my favorite people on earth, Dallas Burrow, stopped by for this new episode of Only Vans to talk about owning a music venue, shamans, Charley Crockett, having a complicated past, and all the good vibes!
Editor’s Note: Only Vans with Bri Bagwell is the latest addition to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about the podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.
Welcome to another edition of Folk Debate Club, our occasional debate series! To discuss ambition vs. acceptance, we welcome our panel: music journalist Kim Ruehl, Basic Folk boss Cindy Howes, and yours truly Lizzie No. We would like to extend a very warm welcome to our special guests singer-songwriter Michaela Anne and producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, also hosts of The Other 22 Hours podcast. In our lively conversation we work through thoughts and feelings about the definition of ambition: a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work. We take the approach from a music industry, folk music and even dive into the audience perspective of how fans might feel about an artist’s ambition.
It is no surprise that capitalism gets rung right out as a reason that ambition goes wrong for artists. As Kim says, “Art is like the nervous system of humanity,” and mixing creation with ambition-gone-wrong is a dangerous game that a lot (most?) professional musicians play with at some point in their careers. This episode has everything: navigating our way out of toxic work environments, messy reactions to unpopular yet important political stances and how to not throw away the people who disagree with you. Listen along and enjoy the ride.
Photo Credit: Lizzie No by Cole Neilson; Cindy Howes by Liz Dutton; Michaela Anne and producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss; Kim Ruehl by Rich Amory
(Editor’s Note: BGS is proud to announce the addition of Only Vans with Bri Bagwell to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about our newest podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.)
Dale Martin is an accomplished music columnist and theater production manager in New Braunfels, Texas. He joins Only Vans host Bri Bagwell to talk about his hilarious journey full of Garth encounters, insane rider requests, and bridging genres with his writing over the past four decades.
(Editor’s Note: BGS is proud to announce the addition of Only Vans with Bri Bagwell to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about our newest podcast coming on board here.)
Live from the legendary Saxon Pub in Austin, Texas, Only Vans host Bri Bagwell sits with friend and BMI’s Executive Director of Creative in Texas, Mitch Ballard. They discuss what BMI is and why it’s important, along with the constantly evolving nature of the music business and what BMI is doing to keep up and help artists.
Lillan and I spoke together on a panel presented by Bluegrass Pride in 2023 at Folk Alliance International. The panel examined on a systemic level how the music industry can adopt more socially sustainable models of business, especially for folks who have been historically marginalized. Lillian works hard to promote inclusivity. They are a pillar of the queer music industry, a gem of a human being, and someone who isn’t often found on stage, but holds up the community from behind the curtain.
What is your greatest fear?
My greatest fear is having my intentions misunderstood. Being responsible for others and making decisions on their behalf can be nerve-wracking, and I like my reasoning to be clear.
What is your current state of mind?
Anticipatory! I feel I should state that my mother died earlier this year, so my “current state of mind” fluctuates regularly. In a year, there is so much to celebrate and mourn that I find myself generally in a state of anticipation of the next moment.
What would a “perfect day” look like for you?
My current ability to balance work/life can come down to the hour, as my personal and professional lives blend 7 days a week. A “perfect day” is when I’m able to accomplish what is needed professionally without sacrificing my personal relationships. Ideally, I’m awake before the sun, there are only a few tasks/meetings to accomplish, there’s at least 5 bouts of big laughter, and some time spent outside in the fresh air.
Why do you work in the music industry?
I can’t imagine being anywhere else. I find those who work in the music industry are a more serious type of authentic and genuine. Working from behind the scenes, I’m lucky enough to meet new people regularly. From the big smoke shows to hometown heroes, I find music lovers prefer to be unapologetically themselves. Which is interesting and entertaining most of the time!
When working on a project, what’s more satisfying to you, the process or the outcome?
The planning process is most satisfying and I enjoy the outcome more if I’ve helped execute. The process of taking a few ideas and elements, and building them into a project, can be magical for me.
You are the Chair of the Board for Bluegrass Pride. What drew you to getting involved with BGP? What do you like most about it? Are there any new projects that you’re excited about?
Yes, I’ve been Chair of Bluegrass Pride for a little over a year. I had been a board member and found I had more interest than my regular term. I enjoy developing programs and maintaining welcoming events for LGBT+ musicians. I’m most excited about our Rainbow Book initiative, which seeks to create a network of vetted venues to play and homes to stay. We launched the application process in early fall of 2023.
What has it been like for you to hold a behind-the-scenes role supporting queer music?
Being behind-the-scenes supporting LGBT and queer music allows me to revel in my own queer joy, which often takes a backseat to how I’m often perceived. When I’m able to fulfill these supportive roles, I feel more connected to the community.
In 2022, you won the IBMA Momentum Award for Industry Involvement. You are someone who is extremely involved. Could you share with us some of the great work you’re doing that led to this recognition?
My job by day is CEO and Co-Owner of Elderly Instruments, where I manage the overall business. It’s Elderly’s consistency that allows me to assist in other events and businesses in the U.S. I co-direct Midwest Banjo Camp, Midwest Ukulele Camp, and The Banjo Gathering. Aside from Bluegrass Pride, I sit on the boards of the International Bluegrass Music Association’s Foundation – where I am a committee member of The Arnold Shultz Fund – and the Rhapsody Project.
Welcome to Folk Debate Club, our occasional crossover series with fellow folk-pod Why We Write! Today, to discuss Your Career vs. Your Soul, we welcome our panel of guests: music journalist and Why We Write host, Kim Ruehl, Isa Burke (Lula Wiles, Aoife O’Donovan), musician and Basic Folk guest host Lizzie No, yours truly, Cindy Howes, boss of Basic Folk and a very warm welcome to Kenneth Pattengale and Joey Ryan of The Milk Carton Kids.
I’d like to think that the act of “selling out” ebbs and flows with the passing of time. As the earning power of the folk musician changes, so does the allowance of what is perceived as abandoning your principles for the almighty dollar. That doesn’t mean that it always feels great. Choices musicians have to make to further their careers can be exhausting and detrimental to their art. How do you strike that balance at the intersection of art and commerce in the folk music world?
Photo Credit: Sam Kassirer (Isa Burke); John Gillespie (Lizzie No); Rich Amory (Kim Ruehl); David McClister (The Milk Carton Kids)
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