LISTEN: Matt Woods, “Drive-Thru Town”

Artist: Matt Woods
Hometown: Knoxville, Tennessee
Song: “Drive-Thru Town”
Album: Natural Disasters
Release Date: June 28, 2019
Label: Lonely Ones Records

In Their Words: “After spending the better part of the last decade criss-crossing this country, I feel like I have watched many towns literally start to dwindle to little more than a corporate box store and fast food restaurants. Meanwhile, the people living there struggle to navigate their new reality, out of opportunity and resources. I have met those hanging on to hope and those who feel like there is little hope left. This song attempts to capture that reality.” — Matt Woods


Photo credit: Chad Cochran

BGS 5+5: Doug Seegers

Artist: Doug Seegers
Hometown: Long Island, New York
Latest Album: A Story I Got To Tell (BMG)
Nicknames: Duke the Drifter (from the days on the NY music circuit, in the band Angels in Overdrive)

What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?

I was born a musician and singer — genetically. At 16 I wanted to be a performer. My grandfather put me up on the bar at age 5. My feet dangling down swinging back and forth, he had me singing Elvis songs on the bar.

Singing was always beautiful to me and it was encouraged by my grandmother. Her singing with me provided comfort and supported me. Her encouragement was like water on a flower. She was watering my flower – see, the beauty of the vocals. My grandmother was an important part of my childhood, especially as it related my music and singing. She could hear a song and tell me how to play it on the guitar – she heard the music perfectly.

That support is what helped me know I wanted to be a musician; it was early. Performing gives me a great feeling and a huge smile now. I saw that in using melodies, the melodies come from our head and from God. Paul McCartney’s melodies are incredible and magical. David Crosby jokes about making “A bad song with good melodies and it will be a hit.”

What other art forms — literature, film, dance, painting, etc. — inform your music?

Religion. Poverty. Growing up poor. I don’t know how to put this into words, about how this informs my art and songs. My mom tried to talk me out of music as a career because of what happened to her. [Editor’s Note: Her husband abandoned her to play music.] My grandmother [was] a big influence for me. She loved the Beatles. In my eyes as a younger man, my granny was the first person to recognize the Beatles for their talent. We had a radio on the wall in her kitchen and so I remember we were waiting for the first Beatles record.

Our family did not have a record player. I remember me, my brother, and mother all chipped in and bought a record player because we wanted to play the first Beatles record. We looked in the Buylines, a newspaper with categories of things for sale. On the “stereos” headline, we found one real cheap. A monaural record player — one speaker. My older brother listened to that record player for at least ten years. We played the 78s, and I played the Hank Williams 78 my dad left behind. That is how I learned to play the guitar.

I am working on another song for my next record. A cover song by Sherry Cothran, “Tending Angels.” I want to do it out of respect for her. She ran a soup kitchen. We had dinners on Thursday nights – she would be there, I got to know her. I have been speaking to her on text. Here is something I wrote to her, ‘Hello Sherry, my name is Doug Seegers, and I used to eat at the Thursday night dinners. A friend was telling me that you are a singer-musician, I just wanted to tell you I spent this morning listening to your music. I wanted to tell you how much you have lifted my spirit this morning. The strength of your humbleness is probably one of the world’s best-kept secrets. I wish you peace and tranquility ‘til the day after forever.” Guess that was a little too much for her, she responded with ‘Thank you for your kind words.’’

How often do you hide behind a character in a song or use “you” when it’s actually “me”?

In some of my songs, I am clear it is me, like in “Out on the Street.” It’s a story about my brother and me. The song starts with Well, I found my wisdom when I was a child out on the street / growing up without my father made my life so incomplete.

This sets a foundation for another song, “Angel from a Broken Home.” This song is important to me. It is a message for fathers to pay attention to their precious children. The song is written about an 8-year-old little girl whose father left her all alone. The lyrics are:

She always got a busy tone
Calling her daddy on the phone
How could he ever treat his girl this way?
She is 8 years old with a broken heart.
How could her daddy be so hard?
Yet every night she forgives him when she prays.
Well she’s an angel from a broken home
Growing up with a heart of stone
Lost her love for her daddy
When he left her all alone.

This is my story. My father left me when I was 8 years old, but I wrote it about a little girl.

Which artist has influenced you the most … and how?

Gram Parsons influenced me. I was listening to all of the early country-rock bands, and Gram was a member of the Flying Burrito Brothers. I particularly like Gram Parsons when he did that song “Do Right Woman.” I thought that was an awesome song. It is an Aretha Franklin song — he turned it around. What Gram was trying to do was fuse different styles together and that is why he was so inspirational to me. I never saw him live but listened to him and knew his songs.

After Flying Burrito Brothers, he did that thing with the Byrds, the Sweetheart of the Rodeo record. That just opened up the sky for me when I heard that record. When Sweetheart of the Rodeo came out, that was the real beginning of me listening to Gram Parsons’ music. And then shortly after that along came Emmylou Harris. They went on the road as the Fallen Angels. That was back when country-rock was being born. It was real inspirational for me.

Then I have always loved duets, you know. I have been listening to and loving duets all my life. I think Gram and Emmylou are like the prettiest duets I have ever heard. Listening to them became an addiction at that point. Their duets that really speak to me include “She” — that is on my first album. I was so pleased to have Emmylou provide vocals and sing on my record. The other two duets that stand out for me are “Hearts on Fire” and of course “The Return of the Grievous Angel.”

One Gram song that rattles around in my head is “Hickory Wind.” Back in the day that is what all the cool guys were playing. When Emmylou came along, the big chart-topper was “Love Hurts.” I still love all of his music. I went to Joshua Tree to visit Gram’s special place. It was a wonderful experience for me. There are some videos of me at Joshua Tree Inn, where Gram passed.

What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?

I want to make sure I am alone when I write songs. I need to get some alone time. Secure privacy and safety. I need to have my own time, space, and privacy when writing. Some will get a cabin in the woods. But not me. I wake up with an idea and a song might be there. I write it when it happens, you just got to get a hold of it then. Someone can react to me — maybe get angry, I can write a song about that.

When I listened to Sherry Cothran’s song ‘Tending Angels,’ I knew it was the right thing to do, and I needed to learn that song and record it. I wanted to pay respect to someone special. I use a notebook and a fine tip marker. That is how I like to write — quiet, alone, with a fine tip marker.


Photo credit: Nelson Blanton

Grand Ole Opry at Bonnaroo 2019 in Photographs

The Grand Ole Opry returned to Bonnaroo Music and Arts Festival this year to headline the festival’s opening night. The Opry carried on the festival’s long-standing tradition of representing country, bluegrass, and roots music with performances by Old Crow Medicine Show and fellow Opry members Ricky Skaggs and Riders In The Sky, plus special guests Steve Earle and the Dukes, Morgan Evans, Ashley Monroe, Wendy Moten, Molly Tuttle, and even the Opry Square Dancers and Opry announcer Bill Cody came along for the ride.

BGS handed off the That Tent torch to the Opry in 2018, after five years of the BGS SuperJam. You can revisit our years of BGS x Bonnaroo goodness here: 2017; 2016; 2014.


All photos: Chris Hollo

Nicolas Winding Refn Brings Rare Country Music Films to UK’s Black Deer Festival

Since he made a name for himself with the 2011 neo-noir film Drive, director Nicolas Winding Refn has become synonymous with sleek, glossy visuals and pristine synthetic pop. That makes him an unlikely figure to participate in this month’s Black Deer Festival, the new boutique, UK weekender celebrating Americana and country music.

But the 48-year-old Denmark native has demonstrated his interest in US culture throughout his career, starting with an obsession with cult exploitation and horror movies that spawned a coffee-table book of posters (The Act of Seeing, 2015). Then there’s the archive of some 200 movies that he’s restored under the banner of his byNWR project – three of which are to get a rare public screening at Black Deer. They include a 1965 concert film featuring George Jones and Loretta Lynn, as well as a musical country and western comedy he describes as “like a Carry On movie, shot in the South.”

Based in Copenhagen, Refn is a frequent visitor to the States, where he once lived as a child. It explains the light transatlantic twang to his near-perfect English. But the fascination with American culture began before that, he suggests. “I think it started back when I was eight years old,” Refn recalls, “and my mom was in New York, basically assessing if this was a place we were gonna move to. So, she had been away for a couple of weeks, and she sent me a package with a 45 of Willie Nelson’s ‘On the Road Again.’ Ever since then, I’ve always had an infatuation with that kind of country and western, and the more that I started learning about it, the more I started getting into it.”

Refn’s taste in Americana and country should be apparent from the films he’s selected for Black Deer. The first is Forty Acre Feud (1965), featuring comedy turns and musical performances from a host of stars from Minnie Pearl and Skeeter Davis to Ray Price. “It’s one of those strange country and western films that was specifically made for the Southern market,” says Refn. “It’s from an archive of a director called Ron Ormond. We happen to own his entire library in the collection. He made these very peculiar Southern-oriented drive-in movies. They very rarely even made it to the north in America. They’re very, very much part of a specific kind of illusion of America.”

Refn is as fascinated by the director’s backstory as the film itself. “The interesting thing about Ron Ormond is that he and his wife June ran a mom-and-pop exploitation business down South, and they would fly around in a private plane to collect revenues from the various drive-ins. Then they had a near-fatal crash that made them very religious, and they turned their bag of tricks to the whole religious crowd in the South, and started making films like If Footmen Tire You, What Will Horses Do?, which was produced by a guy called Estus Pirkle, who was a real hardline pastor. It’s quite an infamous religious propaganda movie about Communism spreading through the US.”

Perhaps the more conventional of the three titles is Ray Dennis Steckler’s Wild Guitar (1962), in which a young rock ’n’ roller gets into the music business and falls foul of a manipulative manager. “That’s a really interesting flick,” says Refn. “It’s a great kind of document of Los Angeles in the early ‘60s. It was shot by Vilmos Zsigmond, a famous cinematographer that went on to win multiple awards for his work with much bigger directors, like Steven Spielberg. But as a film it’s actually quite a groovy coming-of-age, kind of cautionary tale about rock ‘n’ roll. It has some great rock songs in it. In fact it has everything in it: dames, music, good photography, gangsters, guns, fights, love, and mayhem.”

Rounding off Refn’s three choices is Cottonpickin’ Chickenpickers (1967), one of only two films directed by the lesser-known Larry E. Jackson. “It’s an amazing, low-grade It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World kind of thing — with fantastic country and western music in it. And they play the whole songs until the end. It’s quite surreal in a way. It’s a bit like a Jacques Tati movie, I guess. It’s more like a comedy really. It’s just a really, really fringe comedy of a certain era that’s gone. It’s very innocent and kind of quirky in a way. But the music is just absolutely outstanding, and the way that the musical numbers are introduced is just fantastic.”

Each of these films, with their ragged edges and primal, analogue sounds, will come as a surprise to those who only know Refn from his recent English-language work and see him as a pioneer of the digital era. “I always say you have to love and embrace all kinds of music,” he observes. “For me, a lot of it is about, ‘Is it sincere? Is there something within it?’ I think if you always approach music like that, then in a way there’ll be something in all genres that touches you.”


Photo credit: Kia Hartelius (portrait); Scott Garfield (with car)

John Paul White Captures the Countrypolitan Era

John Paul White, who rose to prominence as half of The Civil Wars, has just delivered his most fully-realized solo set, The Hurting Kind. When he couldn’t find a modern album that gave him the feeling of his favorite countrypolitan recordings of the ‘50s and ‘60s (think Patsy Cline and early Roy Orbison), White set out to make an album that would capture the aesthetic of that era without going full-on retro. He wrote with some legendary songwriters of those decades still working in Nashville, including Country Music Hall of Fame members Bill Anderson and Bobby Braddock. One of those Braddock collaborations, “This Isn’t Gonna End Well,” is included here as a duet with Lee Ann Womack.

Recorded at his own Sun Drop Sound studio in Florence, Alabama, with producer Ben Tanner (Alabama Shakes) behind the console, The Hurting Kind finds John Paul White going for broke as a vocalist, flexing his creative muscle as a country songwriter, and speaking his mind about what it means to live and work in Alabama in 2019.

BGS: When you were growing up, your father’s record collection contained a lot of classic country albums, but you didn’t gravitate towards those sounds back then?

White: When I was growing up, I hated those records. It was not my cup of tea. I was more of a rock ‘n’ roll guy. I was listening to Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin and AC/DC — stuff like that that. When I got to college I started listening to Steve Earle and Rosanne Cash and Emmylou Harris. I realized the reason I was digging those records so much is because of all those country records I grew up with. That’s what they grew up with, too, so we had a common DNA. So, I dug back into all those records that I knew by heart and realized how much I loved them. They influenced my decisions musically all the time whether I knew it or not. I finally just fully embraced it.

Over the last few years, you’ve been drawn to music from the countrypolitan era. Why did you want to tap into that for The Hurting Kind?

I think it was just a huge hole in that part of my discography that I was listening to. I was looking for that stuff everywhere. I’d worn those records out, and I knew them backwards and forwards. I was trying to find something in a modern setting that was doing that thing, because that’s just what I craved and what I wanted to listen to.

I then went out and made the record that I was looking for. I decided, “Well, I’m going to find the guys that wrote a lot of those songs.” So I got to write with Whisperin’ Bill Anderson and Bobby Braddock for this album. I got the seal of approval from them that I was on the right track. That’s huge.

You wanted to capture that countrypolitan aesthetic, but you didn’t want The Hurting Kind to sound retro. How did you achieve that?

I didn’t actively do anything to keep it from sounding retro. I wanted it to sound like a modern record, but with those same sensibilities of the string arrangements, vocal harmonies and that country-jazz Chet Atkins-type guitar style. But I wanted to capture it in the way you capture sounds today and not feel like you have to use all old ribbon mics and old RCA microphones that they were forced to use. We have lots more tools at our disposal. If we had finished this record and were just following our guts and it sounded like an old record, then so be it. But I’m glad it sounds like its own thing.

The aesthetic I was going for was really captured in the songwriting process. I arranged all these songs in my head the way that I thought they should sound, and the way they should progress dynamically, before I ever walked into the studio.

“You Lost Me” is such a great cheating song, and one of the most devastating on an album full of heartbreak songs. How are you so good at writing these sad songs?

I’m not meant to write songs to cheer you up. I’d fail miserably because they don’t move me. They don’t make me feel something. My songs aren’t necessarily sad as much as they’ll stir up an emotion. It might be longing or it might be love, but at an angle. Like, “I love you and you’re so horrible for me.” That’s more interesting to me, ‘cause just the straight up love songs, it’s been done. I come at it from a completely different perspective.

Doomed love is also the topic of “This Isn’t Gonna End Well,” a duet with Lee Ann Womack. Why was she the right fit for that song?

I needed a timeless voice — a voice that could straddle genre, but also, I won’t lie, I wanted a voice that would be recognizable. Lee Ann was every one of those boxes checked. She’s really made strides towards creating true, traditional music and sort of separating herself from the typical Music Row stuff. We’ve known each other for a while and have talked about collaborating and never have. I knew, because of Bobby writing it with me, I could be confident enough to walk in the room and ask her out, as it were. She said yes.

You’re singing with a lot of emotion and vulnerability on this album, which isn’t common for a man to do in 2019. Why is that?

Because it’s ain’t cool, I guess. I love Roy Orbison and Marty Robbins — the guys that just put their heart on their sleeve and are not afraid of the drama and bowl you over with it. They make sure you know exactly what they’re feeling with those big notes and the trills and stuff. I think ever since Nirvana came along, so many wonderful things about that whole movement, but it also became so much shoe-gazing. That’s fine, and I like some of that music, but what I really like is a guy up front with confidence putting it all out there and letting you know exactly how he feels and not giving a shit what you think about it.

It’s not easy to pull that singing style off, either. Your voice has really evolved on this album.

I appreciate you saying that. I think it was a confidence thing, too. I think it was a conscious decision to step forward and be counted and give people what I have and not hold back. Not give them 80 or 90 percent. I honestly feel like I’m singing better now than I ever have. I feel like every time I get in front of a microphone or get onstage or am in the studio, I figure something out. I tweak something that makes it a little less hard, a little more comfortable or easier to project — a little better tone, and that’s exciting.

Being an Alabama native like yourself, I’ve found a lot of meaning in the album’s opening song, “The Good Old Days,” with the news coming out of the Alabama state legislature. You’re now performing that song all across the country and overseas and in some ways representing the state to your audience. I have to say, it’s complicated to be from Alabama these days.

It most certainly is. I get it left and right. I’m proud to be known as an Alabamian. I don’t take that lightly. I don’t tend to want to be the preachy guy around here, because I’ve never gravitated towards those sorts of people anyway. The whole proselytizing thing of, “This is what you should believe and this is what you should not believe” does not sit well with me. But at some point around here, it just gets to a fever pitch to where you can’t keep your mouth shut.

That song was definitely a big middle finger to the idea of “Making America Great Again,” because for most people in this country that aren’t white, straight dudes, it wasn’t great. It hasn’t been great. I’m trying every day to teach my children about tolerance and compassion and making sure they know this country was really, really hard on a lot of people that didn’t fit what people considered the norm.

I don’t ever want to see that shit happen again. I don’t want it on their watch. I want to make sure they’ve got their eyes open and that they change things and don’t ever say we should have it back like it used to be. No. I don’t want that for a minute. I want it like it says in the song, “Our best days are in front of us.” I have to believe in that. There are days when I wonder, but I have to have that hope.


Photo credit: Alysse Gafkjen

The String – Ricky Skaggs

Only five artists or acts have been inducted into both the Country Music and Bluegrass Music halls of fame, and only one is actively touring and shaping the dialogue around roots music generally. And that’s 64-year-old Ricky Skaggs.

LISTEN: APPLE PODCASTS

As a fiddler, mandolinist, singer, and band leader he’s bridged the country/bluegrass divide more deftly than any artist alive, and he still does it with sets that split the difference as his band can shift gears on a dime. In a full-hour feature interview, Skaggs reflects on two key periods of his career – the 1970s when as a twentysomething he worked with epic bands like the Country Gentlemen, J.D. Crowe and the New South, and Boone Creek, which he started with a young Jerry Douglas. And we talk about the 2000s, when he turned his full attention back to bluegrass and quickly dominated the industry with awards and era-shaping records.

The Show On The Road – Dom Flemons

This week on the show,  Z’s two-part conversation with Dom Flemons, the Grammy award-winning American songster who has made it his mission to reclaim and rejuvenate the lost acoustic music of the past and bring it whistling brightly into the future.

LISTEN: APPLE PODCASTSMP3

Born in Phoenix, Arizona to parents of African American and Mexican heritage, the ever-curious young Dominique Flemons went from playing drums in his school band and busking on the streets of Flagstaff with his fingerpicked guitar and neck rack harmonica to taking a chance that would change his life completely. He scrounged enough money to make it to the Black Banjo gathering in North Carolina, where he would meet Rhiannon Giddens and Justin Robinson and begin a seven year run with their groundbreaking African American string band, The Carolina Chocolate Drops. They would go on win a Grammy for Best Traditional Folk Album, headline festivals and theaters around the world, open for Bob Dylan, play the Grand Ole Opry, and burst into the collective consciousness of young acoustic music hopefuls all around the world who were tired of the same stoic, hillbilly bluegrass and white-washed old-time songs played over and over around the festival campfire.

14 Songs for Roller Skating in Buffalo Herds

No matter where you may stand on the Lil Nas X viral sensation “Old Town Road” and the associated media firestorm, Twitter debates, and raging country-purity authenticity signalling, we should all be able to agree on one thing: country music has always been a welcoming home to musical memes. Sure, that term may be more recent, a product of the internet age, but ever since the dawn of country as a format silly, tongue-in-cheek, self-deprecating, hilarious, and downright foolish songs have been just as integral a part of the genre as heartbreak, cheatin’, booze, and trucks.

We thought it’s high time we celebrate the knee-slappin’, gut-bustin’ history of country music’s meme-ready songs from across the decades. Here are fourteen of our favorites — yes, just fourteen. We can assure you there are dozens and dozens more where these came from.

“A Boy Named Sue” – Johnny Cash

The man in black, one of the most iconic personas in the history of country music, famous for his grit, his stoicism, and his rough-hewn voice wasn’t even “above” recording a song steeped in satire. Hopefully in 2019 life is getting easier for boys named Sue.

“What a Waste of Good Corn Liquor” – Tennessee Mafia Jug Band

Originally recorded by Country Music Hall of Fame and Bluegrass Hall of Fame member Mac Wiseman, this disconcertingly happy-sounding song tells a story with a moral: moonshine will melt you. Don’t spoil the moonshine.

“The King Is Gone (So Are You)” – George Jones

A song about Elvis, Fred Flintstone, drinking, and heartbreak. This one ticks all of the boxes. Even the “use yabadabadoo in a song” box.

“Did I Shave My Legs For This?” – Deana Carter

Country, after all, is all about the relatability of the human condition. Jilted would-be lovers everywhere have felt your pain, Deana. We truly have.

“Don’t Let The Stars Get In Your Eyeballs” – Homer & Jethro

The original Weird Al Yankovics of country and bluegrass, Homer & Jethro wrote (and re-wrote) scores of songs with wacky, eye roll-inducing, laugh-out-loud funny lyrics, ad libs, and arrangements. Check that steel solo!

“I’ll Oilwells Love You” – Dolly Parton

No, Whitney Houston did not cover this one. But that would have been magnificent.

“You Can’t Roller Skate In A Buffalo Herd” – Roger Miller

One of country’s humorous kings, Roger Miller recorded a host of silly songs over the course of his career. We chose this particular number because of its evergreen wisdom. Of course.

“You’re The Reason Our Kids Are Ugly” – Loretta Lynn & Conway Twitty

But you know what? Looks ain’t everything. And money ain’t everything.

“I’m My Own Grandpa” – Willie Nelson

Get out a piece of scratch paper and sketch this family tree as you go. Does it seem a little… circular? Yeah… that’s the problem.

“Would Jesus Wear A Rolex” – Ray Stevens

A modern country parable. Again, an artist with plenty of silly and sarcastic songs to choose from — and Ray Stevens is being inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame this year. Sounds pretty country to us…

“Cleopatra, Queen Of Denial” – Pam Tillis

Yes. More country songs with outright puns as their hooks, please. And of course, we’ve all been there, Pam. Denial is a popular destination.

“Illegal Smile” – John Prine

On the opening track of his debut album Prine immediately set the tone for his entire career with some of the most nonsensical and witty lyrics ever set to song. “Well done, hot dog bun, my sister’s a nun.”

“I’ll Think Of A Reason Later” – Lee Ann Womack

If you’ve never driven down the road shouting along with this one, we highly recommend that you do — as soon as possible. The song’s main character has a remarkable sense of self-awareness for being so viscerally incensed. If you really hate someone — who may or may not have ended up with your former significant other — it may be your family’s redneck nature.

“My Give A Damn’s Busted” – Jo Dee Messina

Look, if you’ve gotten to the end of this list and you haven’t enjoyed yourself, or maybe you don’t get the point, or maybe you think this is just useless clickbait… whatever the case may be, this song counts as our response. “Nah, man. Sorry.” (Isn’t country the best?)

LISTEN: Jontavious Willis, “Take Me to the Country”

Artist: Jontavious Willis
Hometown: Greenville, Georgia
Song: “Take Me to the Country”
Album: Spectacular Class
Release Date: April 5, 2019
Label: Kind of Blue Music

In Their Words: “The past 22 years of my life and the places I’ve seen are what inspired this song. No matter where I go in the world, I can’t wait to go back to the country. For me, that special place is a rural southern town in Georgia where I grew up. It’s such a quiet and calm place, and somewhere I crave when I’m far from it. I hope you enjoy and follow me to to the country.” –Jontavious Willis


Photo credit: Jeremy Cowart

LISTEN: April Verch, “Durham’s Bull”

Artist: April Verch
Hometown: Pembroke, Ontario, Canada
Song: “Durham’s Bull”
Album: Once a Day
Release Date: April 12, 2019
Label: Slabtown Records

In Their Words: “A fiddler first, I’ve always adored the country stars who turned it over to the band for a rippin’ instrumental halfway through the show. I felt that including something similar would be an important part of making this classic country album complete. Paul Warren used to play a version of this tune at the end of some of the Flatt & Scruggs TV shows. Buddy Durham played it regularly on the WWVA Wheeling Jamboree from 1955-1966. My sources for this assortment of parts also include Uncle Dick Hutchison (who contributed the crooked B part, via my good friend Jerry Correll of Elk Creek, Virginia,) and Paul Holley (the only version I found that had a C part at all) along with Benton Flippen and Paul Brown. Having Al Perkins and Redd Volkaert solo on this fiddle tune took it over the top for me!” — April Verch


Photo credit: Sandlin Gaither