MIXTAPE: The Milk Carton Kids, In Harm’s Way

“There’s a paradox at the heart of great harmony singing: when voices combine in so elemental a way that they disappear into each other, the effect is dizzying, mystifying, disorienting, and yet by far the most satisfying sound in music. Here’s a VERY incomplete playlist, spanning a few generations, of bands defined by their harmonies, who set my mind spinning with their vocal arrangements, execution, and pure chemistry as singers.

“Full disclosure: my own band is included aspirationally and for the sake of self-promotion. Author’s Note: Sorry not sorry for naming this playlist with a pun.” — Joey Ryan, The Milk Carton Kids

The Jayhawks – “Blue”

That unison in the first few lines is so thrilling cause you know what’s about to happen, and when the parts separate it just feels so good.

Gillian Welch – “Caleb Meyer”

The harmonies and Dave’s playing are so intricate in this song you’d be forgiven for glossing over the lyrics, which tell the story of an attempted sexual assault victim killing her attacker with a broken bottle. Check out the Live From Here version with Gaby Moreno, Sarah Jarosz, and Sara Watkins, and catch the alt lyric subbing “Kavanaugh” for “Caleb Meyer” about halfway through.

Gram Parsons & Emmylou Harris – “Hearts on Fire”

Just one of the all-time great duets. Who’s singing the melody, Emmylou or Gram? Hint: trick question.

Our Native Daughters – “Black Myself”

Do all supergroups hate being called supergroups? I wouldn’t know. Our Native Daughters is a supergroup though, and the power of their four voices in the refrains and choruses of this one are all the proof I need.

Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt, & Emmylou Harris – “Those Memories of You”

It’s insane that three of the great singers of their generation just so happened to have this vocal chemistry. Their voices swirl together like paint and make a color I’ve never seen before.

boygenius – “Me & My Dog”

Favorite game to play when this song comes on is “try not to cry before the harmonies come in.” Very difficult. Impossible once they all sing together.

The Smothers Brothers – “You Can Call Me Stupid”

GOATS. IDOLS. Favorite line is, “That’s a pun isn’t it?” “No, that really happened.”

The Milk Carton Kids – “I Meant Every Word I Said”

My band. Imposter syndrome. We recorded the vocals on this whole album into one mic together. It helps us disappear our voices into each other’s.

Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young – “Carry On”

For me, CSNY are the pinnacle of that disorienting feeling harmonies give you when you just have no idea what’s going on. I’ve never been able to follow any one of their individual parts and I LOVE that.

Sam & Dave – “Soothe Me”

When the chorus comes around and you can’t decide which part you want to sing along with, you know they did it right.

Louvin Brothers – “You’re Running Wild”

The Louvins sound ancient to me. Primal. The way their voices rub against each other in close harmony is almost off-putting but I’m addicted to it.

The Highwomen – “If She Ever Leaves Me”

There’s probably even better examples of the Highwomen doing that crazy thing with their four voices where they become one entirely unique voice, all together, but this song is just so good I had to go with it. And the blend in the choruses is just as intoxicating as it gets.

I’m With Her – “See You Around”

Really an embarrassment of riches in modern music on the harmony front. Hearing I’m With Her perform around one microphone drives me insane with the best possible mix of confusion, jealousy, and joy.

Mandolin Orange – “Paper Mountain”

The melancholy is so satisfying when either one of them sings alone, and then they bring that low harmony and I have to leave the room.

Skaggs & Rice – “Talk About Suffering”

This whole record is a masterclass in two-part harmony. It changed my entire concept of singing. I’m Jewish, but when this song comes on it makes me sing wholeheartedly of my love for Jesus.

The Everly Brothers – “Sleepless Nights”

The absolute masters of both parts of a two-part harmony standing alone as the melody. Credit to Felice and Boudleaux for that, for sure, but the Everlys executed it better than anyone before or since.

Simon & Garfunkel – “59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin’ Groovy) — Live at Carnegie Hall, New York, NY – July 1970

This is far from my favorite S&G song, but this live version especially showcases what geniuses they were at arranging crossing vocal lines, unisons, parallel melodies, nonsense syllables and swirling harmonies. Plus the nostalgic “awwww” from the crowd gives me hope that a sensitive folk duo could one day achieve mainstream success again.

Shovels & Rope – “Lay Low”

This starts out as a song of profound loneliness with just one voice singing, then the harmony comes in and it gets… even lonelier? Harmony is magic.

Boyz II Men – “End of the Road”

I’m a child of the ‘90s, don’t @ me. I never realized at all those 8th grade slow dances that we were subliminally being taught world-class harmony singing and arranging. Good night.


Photo Credit: Jessica Perez

MIXTAPE: Lily Kershaw’s Songs That Made Her Want to Write Music

“I decided to make a mixtape of the songs that inspired me to write music. It is always good to return to the reason you started something, especially if you find yourself lost in the middle or far from the start and you need to anchor back to where you began. It’s like going home to reground, rejuvenate, and revitalize! Luckily music is a portable home on our phones these days so I can always dive back in whenever I need to. I hope you enjoy my Mixtape!” — Lily Kershaw

Simon & Garfunkel – “The Sound of Silence”

I chose this song to begin with because it was the first song I heard that made me want to write music. I remember the first time I heard it the world felt like it stopped and an immediate desire to create a song arose in me.

Joni Mitchell – “Cactus Tree”

I’ve been listening to Joni since I was a kid, and this song of her’s in particular made me want to write. I love that she is talking about a woman who would be deemed as “complicated” just because of her desire to be untethered and free, but Joni made her seem so alive and well and glamorous. I remember wanting to be like the woman she sang of.

“He can think her there beside him
He can miss her just the same”

How brilliant is that lyric?!

Leonard Cohen – “Chelsea Hotel #2”

I have covered this song at the majority of shows I’ve ever played live. Cohen wrote this about Janis Joplin. These particular lyrics break my heart:

“Ah but you got away didn’t you babe
You just turned your back on the crowd
You got away I never once heard you say
I need you, I don’t need you”

Crosby, Stills & Nash – “Helplessly Hoping”

I went through a very dark season in my life and the first thing I would do when I woke up in the morning during that time was listen to this song. It would make me feel better even if only for a fleeting moment. I always hope that the music I write can bring comfort to anyone who needs it.

Bob Dylan – “A Simple Twist of Fate”

People tell me it’s a sin
To know and feel too much within

I deeply relate to these lyrics.

Joan Baez – “Diamonds And Rust”

Joan actually wrote this song about Bob Dylan. The poetry is next level!

“Well you burst on the scene already a legend
the unwashed phenomenon
The original vagabond
You strayed into my arms
And there you stayed temporarily lost at sea
The Madonna was yours for free
Yes the girl on the half shelf could keep you unharmed”

Cat Stevens – “The Wind”

This song always re-grounds me and connects me back to my heart and my goal to write music and tell stories from my heart.

Elliott Smith – “Between the Bars”

This is another song I love to cover live and have done so often. I love and relate to this passage of lyrics in particular:

“People you’ve been before that you don’t want around anymore
That push and shove and won’t bend to your will
I’ll keep them still”

Nico – “These Days”

I love a woman simply speaking about where she is at in that moment of her life. It is honest, poetic, simple, and profound.

“I’ve been out walking
I don’t do too much talking these days
These days
These days I seem to think a lot
about the things I forgot to do”

Sufjan Stevens – “Chicago”

This song brings me life. I feel so many things when I listen to this song. It definitely connects me back to my heart and to the place in me that wants to write music.

Now comes the part of my mixtape that is solely a Simon & Garfunkel appreciation section. Here are some of the lyrics that have most inspired me to write!

Simon & Garfunkel – “The Boxer”

“I am leaving I am leaving
but the fighter still remains”

Simon & Garfunkel – “The Dangling Conversation”

“In the dangling conversation
and the superficial sighs
The borders of our lives

And you read your Emily Dickinson
and I my Robert Frost
and we note our place with book markers
that measure what we’ve lost

Simon & Garfunkel – “The Only Living Boy in New York”

“Half of the time we’re gone
but we don’t know where
And we don’t know where”

Now these next two songs are ones I have written. They show the side of what the inspiration from the songs thus far have lead me to create!

Lily Kershaw – “Now & Then”

This is a simple honest folk song about the complicated nature of love and how it changes over time.

“Remember the rooftop parties
Remember the friends
Remember the way I love you now
and the way that I loved you then”

Lily Kershaw – “Darker Things”

This is another of my more acoustic, stripped songs. In it I worry about someone I love very much and how they are hurting and in return hurting themself.

“And you say you hate the way your
mind makes you feel about
all the darker things in your life
I feel you now
I can feel you”

I hope you have enjoyed my mixtape of the songs that inspired me to write music!


Photo credit: Lindsey Byrnes

MIXTAPE: Fruition’s Songs About Time

“I put together this playlist with a theme of ‘time.’ This theme is wide open, so it has the potential to be vastly vague, or momentarily specific. I’ve chosen some of the former and the latter; seasons changing, or that one chapter of a changing relationship. I’m drawn to songs that lyrically take me not just to a certain space, but a certain time that I understand.” — Mimi Naja, Fruition

Bahamas – “All The Time”

A deep, honest, smooth breath of fresh air. Of presence. I end up using this song to get into a sort of meditation sometimes, when things are moving too fast and I can’t keep up. “I’ve got all the time in the world…”

Erykah Badu – “Next Lifetime”

Anyone that’s been in a committed relationship, met someone new, felt that spark and stayed true understands this theme.

Elephant Revival – “Season Song”

Paints a gentle and weighted picture of the clock ticking and the seasons changing.

Fruition – “Turn Your Love”

This one paints a few different pictures in the verses, but the chorus comes back to the same idea. We have the power to take the time to direct our energy where we choose. “Turn your love to the ones you ain’t had time to take time to think of.”

Bob Marley – “Waiting In Vain”

This is a familiar position — the push and pull of romantic endeavors, being willing to be patient but also wanting to make sure things are moving forward. Waiting in vain. Spot-on.

The Frightnrs – “Gonna Make Time”

When you recognize that being busy had you overlooking the love you’ve already got.

Simon & Garfunkel – “April Come She Will”

Evokes some tender reflection. Seasons turning can always do this. This is one of the most well-known songs of this nature, and it’s incredibly short, which is impressive.

Sade – “In Another Time

A very subtle consolation to a woman’s overlooked feelings that imply hope that her dude might eventually figure it out…

Erykah Badu – “Time’s A Wastin”

An anthem of acknowledging the endless mystery and it being a given to be your best, just because.


Photo credit: Dustin Chambers

MIXTAPE: Penny & Sparrow’s Songs Begging to Be Covered

From Joe Cocker covering The Beatles, Bon Iver covering Bonnie Raitt, Glen Hansard covering The Pixies, and many, many more, WE LOVE COVER SONGS. In fact, one of the most commonly had tour van conversations is “What should we cover next?” (And we deliberate that almost daily.) The art of taking someone else’s song and making it your own is difficult and praise-worthy. … THUS, when The Bluegrass Situation asked us to cultivate a playlist, we knew exactly where to go. So here it is, dear friend!! A list of songs — in our opinion — that are begging to be covered.” — Andy Baxter and Kyle Jahnke, Penny and Sparrow

Eagles – “New Kid in Town”

Like a lot of Eagles tunes, “New Kid in Town” manages to have emotional depth WITH a hook that’s catchy as hell. Not a lot of folks can do that. They did it over and over again. It reminds me of “Fun Times in Babylon” and for that reason I must have Father John Misty cover this as soon as possible. Please make that happen for me, FJM. You would sound delightful. (Andy)

Willie Nelson – “Buddy”

This song was on Parks and Recreation and it made the reconciliation of Leslie and Ron one of the most iconic scenes in TV history. For the month after, I listened to it over and over and over again. After 30 days of it I started to imagine who I wanted to hear cover it. I landed on one of two extremely recognizable (and lovely) voices: Ashley Monroe or Anaïs Mitchell. Please Universe, hear my cry. (Andy)

John Denver – “Sunshine on My Shoulders”

I would love to hear this covered by someone like Daniel Caesar. The melody with some R&B voicing would sound insane. (Kyle)

Miya Folick – “Thingamajig”

This song is admittedly new for me and (before it came along) it had been more than a year since a song made me cry on first listen. This one undid me. Eight straight listens and now I might die unless I hear I’M WITH HER cover this damn song in three-part harmony. (Andy)

Ace of Base – “Don’t Turn Around”

I love a good ‘80s/’90s jam saddened by some sad indie folk. Thinking if James Vincent McMorrow took this and pitched it to his gorgeous falsetto I would listen on every rainy morning and cry just a little. Maybe give it to Jason Isbell and let him turn it into an Americana masterpiece. (Kyle)

Alvvays – “Archie, Marry Me”

A friend of ours called this song a “We’ll be young forever” anthem. It toes some strange line between the grunge pop of “Cherry Bomb” and the new age sad rock of Phoebe Bridgers. I love it and really really wanna hear a slickly crooned version by Sam Smith. Take all my money Sam, just get it done. (Andy)

George Strait – “Lovesick Blues”

I love the yodeling in this one. Basically I want Miley Cyrus to imitate Dolly Parton imitating a ‘90s George Strait. I love this track. (Kyle)

Slim Whitman – “Rose Marie”

This one feels unfairly unknown. How this song got lost in the shuffle of history is beyond us but I damn sure wanna hear The Kernal or Robert Ellis do a version! (Andy)

All-4-One – “So Much in Love”

This could either be an Ariana Grande acapella jam, or in my wildest dreams a Simon & Garfunkel reunion where they folk harmonize it to perfection and the world is happy since they are friends again and that’s all I really want. (Kyle)

Anaïs Mitchell – “He Did”

Lyrically this song is masterful and angst ridden and haunting. As I think about it now, it would be an incredibly tall order to cover this monster, but I genuinely think a blues/soul rendition could be badass. The lyrics of the song mourn and bleed and I kinda wanna hear Cedric Burnside or Leon Bridges take it on. (Andy)

Cutting Crew – “(I Just) Died In Your Arms”

GIVE ME HAIM SINGING THIS SONG AND IT WILL BE THE RESURRECTION OF AN ‘80S POP RELIC!!!! It would also stream millions of times in a matter of days. It’s a jam and they’re the maestros I wanna hear introduce it to the next generation. (Andy)


Photo credit: Noah Tidmore

BGS 5+5: Carl Anderson

Artist: Carl Anderson
Hometown: Charlottesville, Virginia
Latest album: You Can Call Me Carl (EP release, May 31)
Personal nicknames (or rejected band names): BIG CARL

Which artist has influenced you the most … and how?

I’m not sure I can point to any one artist as being my main influence. Growing up my mom would listen to folks like James Taylor, Simon & Garfunkel, Joni Mitchell, and a handful of other singer-songwriters. At the same time I was also heavily influenced by what my sister was listening to and that was more along the lines of The Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against the Machine, Weird Al, The Beatles. Some of it I was really moved by, other stuff not so much, but I took it all in nonetheless.

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

I had the opportunity to tour around the United Kingdom and Germany this past August with my friends, Sons of Bill. I would have to say my favorite recent memory of being on stage came during a performance in Munich. I remember really connecting with the audience that night and thinking how special it was that here we were, a couple of Virginia boys far from home playing songs that at one point didn’t exist. That night we got what anyone who does this can really ask for and that is an audience’s undivided attention.

What other art forms — literature, film, dance, painting, etc — inform your music?

I am influenced by all sorts of different art. I like to think of it as all being valuable source material. In the last few years I began painting on a semi-regular basic and have enjoyed learning about different painters throughout history and how they worked. I like that Mark Rothko kept traditional office hours while he worked on the Seagram Murals. I’ve taken to such a schedule with my writing and it has actually worked quite well for me.

What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?

I remember sitting around with my mom and sister when I was in middle school and listening to the first Nickel Creek record and being moved by the songs. I think it was in that moment that I knew I wanted to try and affect people like that. I had started learning a little guitar prior but hearing that music and getting goosebumps that put fuel on the fire. I was on the path from that point forward.

If you had to write a mission statement for your career, what would it be?

I think my mission is simple. I want to try and write honest songs and be as earnest with people in my performances as I can. I am just a man who, like everyone else, is insecure and looking for love. I feel like I am able to share parts of myself with my music that are otherwise difficult to articulate.

Lonely Heartstring Band See Light and Darkness in ‘Smoke & Ashes’

The Lonely Heartstring Band curiously placed “The Way It All Began” in the middle of their new album, Smoke & Ashes, yet it serves as a cornerstone of the project. Somewhere between sweet romance and saying goodbye, the song conveys a contrast of emotions that are woven throughout the album. They recorded the album with Lake Street Dive’s Bridget Kearney as producer; together they ventured beyond bluegrass boundaries while retaining the acoustic approach that led to an IBMA Momentum Award in 2015, as well as a deal with Rounder Records.

The band is composed of twins Charles Clements (bass) and George Clements (guitar), Gabe Hirshfeld (banjo), Patrick M’Gonigle (fiddle), and Maddie Witler (mandolin). Starting a winter morning in Boston with mugs of hot tea, the Clements brothers fielded a phone call with the Bluegrass Situation.

BGS: Let’s start with “The Way It All Began,” which has a wistful and sweet quality. What were you hoping to evoke in that song?

George: Patrick brought that song to the band, and he told me it was his idea about how a relationship starts. It’s two people who are young and traveling together, trying to capture that reflective, looking-back element.

Charles: I’m pretty sure it’s based on a true story from his life and I think it’s actually bittersweet. It’s a moment that comes together in a relationship, for a summer, then by the end, there’s distance. It’s the way it all began, but the way it ended too.

George: We had a lot of fun arranging that song, coming up with different ideas, like little modulations in the middle with the fiddle.

Did you have a certain sound in mind when you went into these sessions?

George: Yeah, I think we wanted to capture the natural sounds of the instruments as best we could. We recorded this record at Guilford Sound in Vermont and that studio has a really cool, natural reverb chamber, so we were able to capture some spaciousness in that.

Charles: For that song, a high priority was to make sure it had that laid-back, California, spacious, unhurried feeling. We went back and forth on tempos quite a bit actually – that’s too slow, that’s too fast. It’s a delicate thing because you want things to groove and move forward, but you don’t want to lose the character of the song just because you want more energy. A great example of that is Neil Young. He’d do these slow grooves that still keep you rolling forward, but they’re not fast songs.

The song “Smoke & Ashes” has some interesting imagery in there. Several times, you are singing “Come back…” Who are you saying that to?

George: When Patrick and I were coming up to the lyrics to that, it was like a post-apocalyptic song in the sense that we’re losing a lot of things that we love in life. They’re slipping away, like maybe nature is becoming threatened by mankind. I think the “come back” is like, let’s return to the things that matter most. Come back to your senses, come back to reality. Come back to the moon, the sun, the things that are universal.

Why did that song make sense as the title track?

Charles: That’s a good question. We went back and forth on album titles. We settled on it because we think it has good imagery and openness to it. Smoke and ashes can be a pessimistic thing, like things have burned down, but it’s also kind of optimistic. It has a sense of rebirth to it. There’s a sense of ending and starting.

George: We thought it had enough space for the listener to put their own interpretation to it. And I think that “Smoke & Ashes” is a pretty unique track on the album because it’s real slow and spacy, with lots of interesting chord changes. I think we all liked the way that track turned out.

“Just a Dream” has a cinematic, sweeping quality to it. Are you all inspired by movies or film scores when you write music?

Charles: Yeah, when I wrote that song, I think I was letting my imagination run free and create these kind of dreamlike images. … You know, an album is like the inverse of a movie score. The listener obviously has to bring their own imagination. [An album] requires a lot more of an audience than a movie does. Movies sometimes are just gonna give, give, give. With a song you have to bring a little more attention to your own life, your own imagination, and fill it in more with questions about, “What are they trying to say?” I think about that a lot. With songs, you have to supply your own movie a little bit.

Do you all collect vinyl?

George: Charles is a big collector. Patrick has a lot. I don’t have a vinyl collection at the moment because I don’t have a record player. [Laughs] I’ve been moving around so much that I just don’t want to lug all of that around – but someday I’d like to have a collection.

Charles: Maddie, our mandolin player, has probably the largest collection in the band.

Do you turn each other onto music that you discover on your own?

George: Oh yeah. We spend so much time in the van. That’s all we do in the van, either listen to audiobooks and podcasts, or just show each other new music. We’ve got a big text thread going where things will get sent out sometimes.

Charles: Yeah, the Lonely Heartstring Band text thread goes back about five or six years now. It’s full of stuff! (laughs)

George: Somebody should transcribe that. It would be a great, hilarious coffee table book.

I like to hear you all sing together on “Only Fallen Down.” So I wanted to ask, who are some of the vocal groups that you really enjoy?

George: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young comes to mind. We also really like The Wailin’ Jennys. Charles and I grew up with a lot of Everly Brothers and Simon & Garfunkel, though that’s more two-part harmony.

Charles: The Trio album – Emmylou Harris, Dolly Parton, and Linda Ronstadt. That’s powerful three-part harmony there. And obviously the Bluegrass Album Band, as a model of how to do tight, three-part, bluegrass harmony.

That song seems to be about a temporary setback, but with a sense of determination to go on. Do you see some parallels in your own life? That decision to forge ahead through the challenges?

George: Yeah, like every day. [Laughs] Being in a band is not easy. There are always challenges in relationships. So I think the lyrics reflect an intimate relationship between two people but it can have a universal appeal. Any time you have a challenge or you feel like you’re ready to give up, you can always change your attitude and say, “Well, yeah, this is a setback. I can pull myself up by my bootstraps and keep on going.”

In that song, there’s a line that says something like “Reach out for a hand to pull me through.” That’s a line that we came up after the song was written. That line replaced another one lyric. I really like that line because I think the hardest thing to do when you’re down is to ask for help. Sometimes we wallow in our own misery, and I think what you have to do is ask for help. You don’t have to do it on your own, basically. If you’re having a tough time in life, there are always people who want to help. That’s the amazing thing about the human spirit. We are here to help each other.

Charles: “Only Fallen Down” is a simple song when you think about it. It has a clear, straightforward message. I think that song stands out on the album because it is like a Beatles-esque sweet song. It’s very direct, not trying to be obtuse or metaphoric. I think we were ready for something like that, where you can feel good, like a simple soul song where we’re not trying to say anything other than that simple idea.

Do you think your audience will hear a departure from your prior album when they hear this one?

George: Yeah, I think they will. When I listen to our first record, it’s a little more traditional style – although not super traditional. We still had our own take on things. But this record doesn’t have any covers. It’s all our own original music. I think it reflects more of our unique musical sensibilities without trying to be anything other than what we are. We’re not using electric instruments, we’re not using drums. We still have that Lonely Heartstring Band sound.


Photo credit (on location): Louise Bichan
Photo credit (studio): Mike Spencer

Dismissing the Suits: A Conversation With The Milk Carton Kids (1 of 2)

The Milk Carton Kids have been about nothing if not duality. That’s down to their very name, which evokes both comedy and tragedy, and their stage presence, in which some of the stateliest and most delicate songs possible are broken up by riotously deadpan banter. They’ve always been about duo-ality, too — two voices and guitars, gathered around a single microphone, contemplative Everlys for the 21st century, unaugmented by anything that would have seemed rank or strange to the Stanley Brothers back in the 1950s.

But now, suddenly, almost everything you know about the Milk Carton Kids is wrong — at least the formal elements. They’ve dropped the formal suits and picked up separate mics… and a full band, too, while they were at it. Could this be their Dylan-goes-electric moment? Not to worry — there probably won’t be any cries of “Judas!” greeting their fifth album, All the Things That I Did and All the Things That I Didn’t Do, or a touring ensemble that no longer fits in a single front seat. It’s not just that the new material is superb — although that never hurts — but that the fuller arrangements sound like a natural progression in what is still scaled for intimacy.

Before we get to the Kids, we queried producer Joe Henry for his thoughts about how necessary or smooth the transition was, going from duo to band configuration. He admitted there was at least the fleeting consideration of a backlash — “I don’t imagine it possible that the Kids weren’t individually and collectively pondering the response of an audience that has been so steadfast in their devotions to the band’s brazen and brave duo commitment to date.” But, Henry says, “I saw no evidence that the looming question gave them any pause… And no one involved that I’m aware of had any doubt that such a shift was now not only timely but imperative: they’d reached a point where the color of the light, so to speak, needed to reflect their growth as musicians and songwriters––this batch of songs being so particularly strong as to invite, nay, insist on a presentation equal in its evolution.”

The producer adds that the Kids are “still very much a duo in ethos and execution. There is real drama in the intimacy of Ken and Joey pushing up to a single mic in symbiotic solitude, and it was important to all three of us going in that that image remain intact ––even as new sonic weather kicked up and swirled around them.”

When we sat down with Kenneth Pattengale and Joey Ryan at a Van Nuys coffee shop in June, we found that off-stage they’re just like they are on-stage… only more so.

As part of changing things up, you’ve decided this is also the right time to go for street clothes in concert, right?

Joey: Talk about decisions that were never actually made.

Kenneth: Yeah, that one’s still TBD. I mean, we get on the tour bus tonight. Joey’s near his closet, but I didn’t bring anything from Nashville, so if I’m wearing a suit tomorrow, I’m gonna have to go to the Men’s Warehouse in Tucson. The advice I’ve gotten from literally everybody on earth is that they’re gonna be saddened to not see me in a suit, and that we should be wearing them. But… f— ‘em. [Laughs.]

Joey: Well, I never wanted to wear a suit. The reason that we wore suits in the beginning was as a part of a collection of survival techniques.

Kenneth: Given your druthers, you’d dress like an ass-clown, that’s why. And you can quote me on that!

Joey: [Sighs.] See, how can people not love us? No, it was a part of a suite of survival techniques that we developed when we were playing in very…

Kenneth: Techniques or tactics?

Joey: Techniques.

Kenneth: There are survival techniques? I think they’re mostly tactics. It’s interesting to hear you’ve developed survival technique. It sounds like something they’d sell in the Valley.

Joey: Those words are synonyms. It’s a survival tactic and a technique. In any case, in the early days, we were playing this really sonically fragile show, and the only places that would book us were like the smallest rock club or bar or coffee shop sometimes in town. In a dive bar, we would wear suits to visually indicate that it was just something different than what they would maybe expect to see in that room, so that you could have some chance for the first couple minutes of people taking note and going, “Alright, what is this gonna be? I’m going to shut up and listen for one song.” You at least have a song. You have that chance to get ‘em to stop talking loudly in the bars that they’re used to talking in and maybe pay attention to the show, because our show required that.

It’s not like an attention-seeking preciousness. It’s like a physical, sonic fragility that we had, because we mic-ed our guitars, and you just can’t turn it up that loud. The perfect example is how we played at the Beachland Tavern in Cleveland, Ohio, many times. It’s a great place but the beer fridge is louder than we could get the PA, so we had to ask the bar to unplug their beer fridge, and they were so accommodating. I don’t know what happened to the beer. And they would also bring in rows of folding chairs, which literally no other band would ever even ask them to do. But we always wanted to be in a theater where people would be able to receive what we were trying to present, and the suits were just part of that. Now, with the band…

Kenneth: You’re gonna go back to flip-flops!

Joey: With the band… [Long, exasperated pause.] See, people always say we’re antagonistic. I think it’s just him. No, with the band, we don’t have the sonic fragility that we had before. … And so the whole misdirection of wearing a suit in unexpected places is not required. That was a long way of saying: I’m excited to not wear suits.

How early or late in the process did you decide to go with a band for this album?

Joey: We decided three years ago in Dusseldorf, Germany that we weren’t going to make the next album as a duo… It was just a moment. It wasn’t like we even talked it out. [To Kenneth:] You were like, “I think we should probably do the full-band thing next.” And I was like, “Oh, thank God you said that, because I’ve been worrying about how to bring that up.” But you always break the ice.

Kenneth: Yeah. I’m a talker.

I’m always interested in how people who are identified with a very specific thing decide to change it up… or not. A lot of times, people back away from giving up the thing that people identify as unique.

Kenneth: It’s always risky to go down these philosophical rabbit holes in interviews like this, because invariably they come out not reading exactly as intended, but I’ll go anyway, because who gives a shit? One of our blind spots -– and I think it’s a common blind spot for artists specifically — is that Joey and I for a long time had a complete inability to understand what was good about our band, while also knowing it in our core. And it’s necessary. If we knew what that was, I think that we would lean into it, and it would get tired very quickly and wouldn’t mature and evolve.

But for the first year and a half of our band, Joey and I didn’t realize that we were good just because when we sang together, it sounded like something that people either had never heard before or hadn’t heard in a while, or it bore a trueness that was just apparent in its physics. Joey and I thought that it was a result of all the hard work we do about making sure our harmonies are tight or about phrasing or about all these marginal things that we quibble over. You really lose sight of what the fundamental thread is that actually is the reason the whole thing exists. And we still have that blind spot. There’s something that’s just innate in what you do from the beginning that we take for granted.

So what is the thing you have the blind spot about, that your audience totally gets?

Kenneth: To put it really simply, when Joey and I sing together, it reminds people of Simon and Garfunkel, the way they actually physically combine, like alchemy in the air, or the way the Everlys did it, or the Louvin Brothers. When Joey and I sing together, there is some physical chemistry that is actually, like, we have to try hard to f— it up. And we have from time to time, but we’ve got an advantage coming out of the gate to other people singing harmony together, in that there’s something that just works about it.

And then there’s a similar shared vision in our writing and stylistic choices, and even essential life administration, where, outside of a few blowouts where we figured out what the problem was, the way they rub together results in this strange band that people haven’t kicked out of life yet.

Read the second half of this interview.


Photo credit: Joshua Black Wilkins

Small World: How Paul Simon Found Himself in the ‘60s English Folk Scene

In 1965, a dejected Paul Simon went for an extended stay in England. When he returned home to New York toward the end of the year, he brought Anji with him.

Well, “Anji.” A piece of music, not a woman.

“Anji” — sometimes spelled “Angi” or “Angie” — was written and first recorded in the late 1950s by English guitarist Davy Graham, considered by many the first star of the U.K. folk guitar renaissance. It’s a snappy little fingerpicked number, a series of trills over a descending bass line. Really more jazzy than folkie. By the time Simon first heard it, apparently via the playing of another young star of the scene, Bert Jansch, it had become the touchstone for English acoustic guitarists. This was the piece they had to master to gain entry into that world and in the process serving to popularize the dark modal DADGAD open tuning as the scene standard.

Simon’s recording of “Anji,” with the writing credit originally going to Jansch before later being corrected, served as an instrumental interlude at the end of side one of The Sounds of Silence, the second album he made with Art Garfunkel. But in the context of the sweep of Simon’s eventual status as one of the modern era’s supreme songwriters (and Simon and Garfunkel’s standing as one of the key pop acts of the 1960s and ‘70s), “Anji” marks a turning point.

“One of the things he found [in England] was a welcome, warm music community,” says Robert Hilburn, author of the new biography Paul Simon: The Life. The book is a comprehensive and colorfully enlightening look at the artist, done with his full cooperation. It was published in May, on the eve of what he says will be his final full concert tour. He’s named it the “Homeward Bound” Tour, after a song he wrote while in England.

“He hadn’t felt accepted in folk circles of America — Greenwich Village put him down because he came from Queens,” says Hilburn, who was the pop music critic and editor at the Los Angeles Times for more than three decades (and with whom this writer worked for more than 20 years). “But there, he was from America and people listened to him and liked him. And he said that the folk clubs in England were generally away from the bars and people listened to the songs. In America they were in bars and people chatted and ignored the music.”

Simon was feeling that rejection acutely when he moved to England. While Simon and Garfunkel had been signed to Columbia Records by tom Wilson after some furtive steps under the name Tom & Jerry (and some solo Simon work under the name Jerry Landis), their debut album, the acoustic folk-tinged Wednesday Morning, 3 A.M., had flopped and the partners were at odds — a common state through their lives. In England he found something to give him new artistic life, new purpose, a setting in which he could define his own goals and ambitions, and in which he was valued.

He released a 1965 solo album featuring acoustic performances of his own songs (The Paul Simon Songbook, not issued in the U.S. until its inclusion in the 1981 Paul Simon: Collected Works box set), co-wrote with Australian-born musician Bruce Woodley (including the bouncy “Red Rubber Ball,” a 1966 hit by the band the Cyrkle) and produced an album by fellow American ex-pat Jackson C. Frank, including the song “Blues Run The Game.” (Simon & Garfunkel recorded the song as well.) The composition became another standard of English folkies and later came to mark the tragic life and death of its writer. In the process, Simon discovered key things about who he was, and who he wasn’t, as an artist.

“Most of those musicians there were guitar players and played old folk music,” Hilburn says. “They didn’t write as much of their own. He couldn’t play guitar like they did. Martin Carthy [another rising star of the scene] was particularly helpful in teaching him things, but he realized that it was words that would distinguish him. That’s what the other English musicians wouldn’t do. He wasn’t a fan of the old-time English ballads. When he heard Dylan, he said, ‘That’s what I want to do, write about the world today, not just “I went down to the river and killed my baby.”’”

Now, to be fair, those “down to the river” ballads were just as much core to the American folk revival as the English one. But by and large they originated in England and elsewhere in the British Isles and Europe. The songs of murder, treachery and heartbreak arrived on these shores with the many waves of immigrants, mutating in various ways but still very recognizable in the forms associated with Appalachia and the Delta, bluegrass and blues alike, Cajun and country, you name it.

Of course, that all found its way back across the Atlantic where American folk and blues (and, of course, rock ’n’ roll) influenced and inspired a generation of English musicians looking for meaning and authenticity, even if borrowed, first in the “skiffle” movement, and then in both the folk revival and with the Rolling Stones, the Animals, of course the Beatles and the others who, in the mid’60s British Invasion, brought blues back to America.

Davy Graham was heavily influenced by American blues and jazz, and his early ‘60s albums were full of his arrangements drawn from that repertoire. And one of Graham’s frequent collaborators, singer Shirley Collins, traveled through the South in 1959 with American folk and blues collector and preservationist Alan Lomax, researching and recording the music on porches, in churches and prisons and at social occasions, documenting various forms that were threatened with extinction in the face of “progress.”

It is, in fact, a blues song that kicks off the upcoming Live in Kyoto 1978 concert recording by English folk great John Renbourn, who passed away in 2015. Renbourn, who in addition to his own long and fruitful solo career co-founded the revolutionary jazzed-up folk band Pentangle with Jansch, started this show with a version of “Candy Man,” a raunchy ragtime tune first recorded by Mississippi John Hurt in 1928. But the second song of that concert? Yup. “Anji,” with an introduction by Renbourn explaining that it was a “tune that started me, and a lot of other people, trying to play the guitar.” The album is a wonderful slice of a remarkable career from a stellar guitar talent who regularly tied together Medieval Italian and French dance tunes with American blues and jazz, all fixed around the English folk traditions of such songs as “Banks of the Sweet Primroses.”

It’s the Circle of Folk.

And it circled back when Simon found himself moving home to New York due to an unexpected turn of events. While he was in England, producer Tom Wilson — without Simon’s knowledge — added some folk-rock instruments to the acoustic version of “The Sound of Silence” that had been on the S&G debut. Suddenly it was the right song at the right time, a perfect fit alongside the Rubber Soul Beatles, the sparkling folk-rock of the Byrds and, of course, the newly electrified Dylan himself. That new version became both the title song of the next album and the launching point for new approaches that would quickly distinguish the duo.

How did the time in England make an impact, aside from “Anji”? Hilburn sees little direct evidence of the English folk scene on Simon’s writing, though there’s certainly some of the mood and filigrees of the guitar styles in the fingerpicked lines of “April Come She Will.” And there is “Scarborough Fair,” an actual English folk song that Simon took almost note-for-note from Carthy’s arrangement into an unlikely pop hit, its refrain providing the title of the third S&G album, Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme.

Carthy has said he was “thunderstruck” when he saw the song credited as “words and music by Paul Simon” on the original S&G release. Later it was discovered that while royalties were paid, the money was never forwarded to Carthy by his publisher. Simon years later made sure that new payments were made to the English artist, an act Carthy deemed “honorable” per Hilburn’s account.

But it remains a controversial episode for some, presaging later controversies of proper crediting and cultural appropriation that saddled Simon, particularly regarding his Graceland work with South African musicians at a time of a cultural embargo due to the countries brutal apartheid policies. (And, for Carthy, it was a second case of an American artist nicking one of his arrangements, as Dylan himself used Carthy’s version of the traditional “Lord Franklin” for “Bob Dylan’s Dream.” In addition, “Scarborough Fair” was liberally adapted into “Girl From the North Country,” with the source noted readily in the liner notes of The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan as well as in various interviews by Dylan over the years. A duet by Dylan and Johnny Cash made for a highlight from the later Nashville Skyline album.)

If the direct impact of what he learned in England was not an ongoing presence in Simon’s writing and performance, it did seem to stimulate a hunger for exploring music from various cultures and countries, which soon emerged in a variety of ways — the Andean folk-tune on which he based in “El Condor Pasa” (in turn making it virtually inescapable for later travelers in Peru), reggae in “Mother and Child Reunion” (recorded in Kingston with Jamaican studio mainstays), and gospel in “Love Me Like a Rock.” Then he took that giant leap into South African music with the landmark Graceland album in 1985 and various Afro-Brazilian and Latin American inspirations and collaborations on Rhythm of the Saints in 1990, profoundly the batucada drumming on the song “The Obvious Child.”

And, with this all in mind, it was striking during one of Simon’s Hollywood Bowl shows on his farewell-ish tour how well the song, “Dazzling Blue,” which had been on the 2012 So Beautiful or So What album, could have fit alongside many things done by Graham, Jansch and Renbourn. In this performance, Simon’s fingerpicked figures and lilting melody were weaving through the Indian-derived rhythms and modes carried in Jamey Haddad’s ghatam (clay pot) percussion and the veena-like melisma of Mark Stewart’s slide guitar. Ultimately it’s all of a piece, the band on this tour anchored by South African bassist Bakithi Kumalo, who has been Simon’s partner on much of the music he’s made from Graceland on. Young Nigerian guitarist Biodun Kuti steps in with grace and aplomb to the hole left by the death last December of Cameroonian musician Vincent N’guini, who had been with Simon since Rhythm of the Saints. But still the music is threading back to the epiphanies of London in the ‘60s. And yes, even Greenwich Village.

“He loves roots music,” Hilburn says. “What was interesting to me is that as a songwriter he doesn’t come up with a theme first. If you or I were writing a song, we might go, ‘Let’s write about ecology, or about breaking up with a girlfriend.’ He lets the music inspire him, plays guitar or piano and if something sounds interesting, he thinks, ‘What do those notes mean to me?’ and tried to put that into words. One line, then to the next line, and he discovers the theme as he’s writing. So he constantly needs new musical inspiration. He started with doo-wop and blues, then rock and folk. But by the end of 1969 he felt he couldn’t go any further in folk. He didn’t want to be part of that. So he goes to classical and jazz and gospel and bluegrass. And then South African music. He has to have fresh inspiration.”


Photo credit: Lester Cohen

 

 

That Ain’t Bluegrass: Becky Buller Band

Artist: Becky Buller Band
Song: “Hazy Shade of Winter” (originally by Simon & Garfunkel)

Where did you first hear this song?

When I was in high school, a friend of mine introduced me to the music of Simon & Garfunkel. It really got me through kind of a dark period in high school. No one at my school played bluegrass music. My hometown would not really know about bluegrass, if it hadn’t been for my family. [Laughs] I’m from St. James, Minnesota. It was around ninth or 10th grade, I was feeling like an outcast and uncool. I made peace with all of that about a year later, when I became okay with the fact that I was different. During that dark period, I really fell in love with Simon & Garfunkel’s music. I got all of their records and learned their songs. It was a great school of songwriting. I love those records.

So this year, I’m trying to incorporate more songs that introduce a different feel and flavor into the show. We’re trying to keep it interesting. We’ll do “Hazy Shade of Winter,” then we’ll roll into “Carroll County Blues” or something. I like to keep a variety of feels and styles in the set to keep people engaged. We were doing a show at the Station Inn back in February and I thought, “Well, it’s wintertime, let’s do ‘Hazy Shade of Winter.’” It’s relatively new to us. The last couple of year’s we were doing Paul Simon’s “Keep the Customer Satisfied.” We’ll throw in a James Taylor tune or two. We all love a variety of music.

It’s kind of a tradition for bluegrass artists to take songs from outside the genre and interpret them through a bluegrass lens. It’s been happening since the first generation. Why do you think that is?

Since the beginning! Because they were influenced by their time, and they were kind of pop music at the time, in a way. Bluegrass was under the umbrella of country music until the ‘50s. I can think of Jim & Jesse doing “Johnny Be Good,” the Country Gentlemen, Reno & Smiley, J.D. Crowe and the New South did Simon & Garfunkel tunes. I’m a little hazy on the history.

To me, it’s all about sharing songs that I love, that I’ve loved for a very long time. It also might draw in some audience members who aren’t necessarily bluegrass fans. We often have people who come up and say, “I don’t like bluegrass, but I like what you do, so I’m gonna listen to it more.” I love that. I love being an ambassador for the music.

What about “Hazy Shade of Winter,” do you think, makes it particularly suited for a bluegrass band?

[Laughs] We’re pretty much just doing what they did — feel and everything — just on bluegrass instruments. I love it because it’s a kind of a rock ‘n’ roll feel. I think the way I have it in the set, rolling into “Carroll County” — I’m still experimenting with it and how to fit it in — but we come out of a song that I wrote, that’s very bluegrass, then into this rock feel. I just wanted to do it exactly as they did it, because I wanted that feel in the set. Then we do “Carroll County,” then we take it down into this three-quarter time sort of thing. That’s something that I have to give credit where credit is due: I got that from Valerie [Smith]. She’s very good at that, pacing a set, putting in things that mix and match feels, keeping things rolling, and keeping things interesting.

What’s your favorite thing about performing this song?

It’s fun to get to duet with Nate [Lee]. It’s a duet all the way through. Nate has just recently started singing more with us, because Daniel Hardin was singing the higher part, but he left the group at the end of last season. Nate has really stepped up. He’s doing a great job. This is fun, because this is one that we specifically worked up together, so he’s not just taking up [Daniel’s] part. This is his thing — he’s making it his own.

And again, just that rock ‘n’ roll rhythm! It’s very in-your-face. I love it. It grabs the audience’s attention. I love that I have a band that’s up for doing some off-the-wall stuff. They’re so good; they can just do it. It’s not a hardship for them at all. They sound awesome. I’m thrilled to get to pick with them.

Now, you know that ain’t bluegrass, right?

[Laughs] No, but it’s good music! I tell folks that we love all music from all branches of the bluegrass family tree. That’s what we try to do in the set — we mix it up. Mainly what we’re doing, aside from the whacky covers, is original stuff. We’ve been influenced by all of this wonderful music that’s come before and we’re definitely students of the music. I’d challenge anybody to tell Professor Dan [Boner] he’s not bluegrass! [Laughs] We try to be very nice, when we say that! People just want to be heard and that has value. I appreciate that they take the time to come up and talk to us.

Again, there’s that long and glorious tradition of covering current music, current pop tunes, in bluegrass. I guess this is current as of like, late ‘60s … but still. It’s so fun to see the audience light up. Yes, it’s also fun when they connect with the new [original material] we’re presenting, but I think doing the older tunes, things that they’re familiar with, helps them connect with that newer stuff we’re trying to share with them, too.

3×3: Shane Parish on John Coltrane, Johnny Cash, and a Moment in the Sun

Artist: Shane Parish
Hometown: Asheville, NC
Latest Album: Undertaker Please Drive Slow (Tzadik)

 

Time to reconnect with my roots… "Never mind what's been sellin, it's what you're buyin…" #fugazi

A photo posted by Shane Parish (@birdonsixwires) on

What was the first record you ever bought with your own money?
RUN DMC, Raising Hell

How many unread emails or texts currently fill your inbox?
86

If your life were a movie, which songs would be on the soundtrack?
"The Man Comes Around" by Johnny Cash, "Staying Alive" by the BeeGees, "The Boxer" by Simon and Garfunkel, "A Love Supreme" by John Coltrane

 

My new solo album, Undertaker Please Drive Slow, is released today on Tzadik Records! Here's the track listing.

A photo posted by Shane Parish (@birdonsixwires) on

What's your favorite word?
Tchotchke

Which sisters are your favorite — Andrews, Secret, McCrary, or Mandrell?
McCrary

If you were a liquor, what would you be?
Tequila

 

Loitering

A photo posted by Shane Parish (@birdonsixwires) on

Fate or free will?
Fate

Cake or pie?
Pie

Sunrise or sunset?
Sunset