A Simple Daily Practice Brought About Liv Greene’s ‘Deep Feeler’

For Liv Greene, music is all about showing up.

The Nashville-based singer-songwriter just released her sophomore record, Deep Feeler, in mid-October and she wrote and recorded the LP guided by a simple but powerful ethos: Show up for the craft of songwriting and it will show up for you, too. In Greene’s case, that looked like committing to a daily writing practice and finding external sources of accountability – like writers’ groups and online communities – as well as learning to work through days when access to her writerly brain felt blocked.

“A lot of the songs came out of just showing up for the practice, like, ‘Okay, what is there to play with today?’” she tells BGS, calling from her home in Nashville. “‘What’s coming out of my brain today?’”

Though some days only yielded frustration, Greene soon found herself with an album’s worth of material, the bulk of which draws heavily from a concurrent stretch of curiosity-fueled introspection, during which she considered her life as a queer person as well as the quirks and habits that make her who she is.

Greene recorded Deep Feeler at Nashville’s famed Woodland Studios, the East Nashville outpost that serves as home base for David Rawlings and Gillian Welch. She and GRAMMY Award-winning engineer Matt Andrews co-produced the LP, pulling together an ace band that includes acclaimed singer-songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Sarah Jarosz, whom Greene considers a musical hero. Highlights on the record include “Flowers,” a gentle and optimistic celebration of treating oneself with love and care, and “Wild Geese,” which draws inspiration from the late poet Mary Oliver.

Below, BGS catches up with Greene about her daily writing ritual, her experience producing Deep Feeler, and her decision to take a gamble on her artistic vision.

You just released a new record, Deep Feeler. What can you share about the project’s origins and how you conceived its initial vision?

Liv Greene: Most of the songs came out of a dedication to showing up for the craft, whether or not I had an idea when I sat down. I was almost forcing myself to write, but in a way that felt like cultivating a more consistent writing practice. Given that it was during the pandemic, it makes a lot of sense that many of these songs came out of that time. I had a few things to hold me accountable, too. There was a writers’ group I was part of, where I was writing a song a week for the first half of 2021, and a songwriting workshop where I wrote “Flowers.” I also led some workshops myself and participated in the exercises I’d give my students. After moving to Nashville, I wrote “Deep Feeler” and “Wild Geese,” and then the rest of the album took shape from there.

I love the idea of showing up for the craft. It’s not easy to sit down and write when you don’t have an idea at the ready. How did you begin those sessions? Do you have a ritual that helps you shift into that writer headspace?

When I’m in a writing season – which I’m always trying to get back to, though sometimes it’s just not the time, if I’m busier with other parts of my career – it’s usually marked by time with my instrument, just improvising. I’m most inspired by windows or outdoor spaces. Sitting on a porch or in my room looking out the window, just a lot of improvisation. That’s really the core of my songwriting: spending time seeing, maybe speaking in tongues, seeing what comes out in terms of gibberish, and then noticing what starts to stick. There’s something to that diligent practice of making things up consistently, even if you hate what you make up.

Tell me about choosing “Deep Feeler” as the title track. What does feeling deeply represent for you?

The album concept came out of a self-aware period of recognizing patterns in my life and seeing that I was the common denominator. I was in a lot of situationships. While the heart of this record is about the heartache and missteps of my early 20s, I hope it resonates with people beyond that scope. I’d come out, accepted myself, and allowed myself to feel desire and joy and all of these deep romantic feelings for the first time. This record is a lot of me sitting with myself and embracing the way I’m wired, trying to find a healthier self-awareness around it. I’m working on drawing boundaries with myself, but also being proud of my wiring and how it makes me a good storyteller and a good romantic.

As I was preparing to talk to you, I found a quote from you about making this record that really stuck with me. You said, “Now, rather than an escape from myself, songwriting is communion with myself.” Could you elaborate on that?

When I started writing songs in middle and high school, I was at an all-girls Catholic high school. I went to Catholic school most of my life. Being queer, I didn’t feel like I had much representation in my world, so I felt pretty lonely in high school. I didn’t have much of a musical community in D.C., where I grew up. Guitar was always my escape. I’d come home from school, play for hours, and write. As I got older, I had to form a bit more emotional intelligence and really sit with the person I wanted to be. I realized I couldn’t keep running away from parts of myself and that those parts were actually wonderful and something I should embrace. Songwriting became a different vessel for me to explore myself, rather than viewing it academically, as a hobby, or in a scholarly way.

You got to set up shop at Woodland Studios to record the album. Woodland is such a beloved part of Nashville’s music community, and it sounds like you had an excellent roster of musicians in the studio with you. What did being in that environment open up for you creatively?

The core of the record was made in one day in July at Woodland and it was just myself, bass, and drums – no headphones, live in two adjoining rooms, live onto tape. It was very high-pressure. We did six songs that day and just fired them off, trying to keep the authenticity of a live performance at the heart of the record. The studio days were some of the scariest of my professional life, but in a good way.

There were so many nights beforehand where I’d get the Sunday scaries and think, “Oh my God. Sarah Jarosz, who’s a hero of mine, is going to come to the studio tomorrow, and I’m producing. What if we don’t have time to do everything we need to?” It was an immense amount of pressure to be in the producer’s chair for my own project. But musicians put a lot of money into their records because it’s expensive to record. So I viewed the record as, like, “Okay, this is sort of like grad school.” Friends had asked me to produce their stuff before and I’d said no because I didn’t have the experience. Now, it’s baptism by fire, and I’m my own guinea pig.

You have some shows coming up, including a couple here in Nashville. Have you gotten to play much of this material live yet, or is that still to come?

Some of the core songs on the record have been in my set list for a while, at least around town; friends already know all the words to “Wild Geese” and some other “hits” from the record. But yeah, especially the B-side songs, a lot of those will be pretty new to my live show. I’m excited to hopefully do a lot more touring in the next year and see how the songs are landing out in the world. I haven’t really gotten to do that. My last record was a pandemic record and I never really toured it, so I’m really excited for the record to come out soon and then to get out there, meet people, and reconnect with those who resonate with it.

Are you still engaging in your daily writing practice? Do you have other new material on the horizon?

I’m hoping to go into the studio again soon to do a couple of songs. I’m just taking my time getting to know different producers around Nashville. I think this winter is going to be about doing one song here and one song there. I feel like I’m about halfway toward another record, so I’m getting excited to be in the studio again. It’s my favorite place to be.


Photo Credit: Joseph Ross Smith

Chuck Prophet Talks Music, Surfing, and Storytelling with Mark Erelli

Editor’s note: For this episode, we invited our friend Mark Erelli to interview Chuck Prophet. The two are familiar with each other’s work through songwriting together for Mark’s latest album Lay Your Darkness Down (2023). We’re thrilled to welcome Mark back as guest host!

Chuck Prophet has been a mainstay on the indie and Americana music scenes since the 1980s, before either designation was a common part of the rock ‘n’ roll lexicon. Through his guitar work in the seminal psychedelic desert rock band Green On Red, musical collaborations with Kelly Willis, Kim Richey, and Warren Zevon, and a string of over a dozen solo records, Prophet has carved out a respected niche in rock music history with his “California Noir” sound. It’s a streak he probably could have kept riding for the rest of his career, if not for his sudden diagnosis with lymphoma a couple years ago. During his treatment and eventual recovery from cancer, Prophet found solace in his record collection — in particular the vibrant rhythms and danceable energy of Cumbia. He eventually sought out a favorite local band in the genre to jam, and then formally collaborate on Wake The Dead, Prophet’s first new solo album in four years. The project blends his longtime band The Mission Express with members of the Cumbia outfit Quiensave, and the result is equal parts familiar and fresh.

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I have firsthand knowledge of Prophet’s freewheeling collaborative process, having worked with him and his longtime songwriting partner Klipschutz on a song for my 2020 album Blindsided. I once taught with Chuck at a folk festival songwriting school, and was relieved to be able to play before him at the instructor open mic, because no one wants to follow Chuck Prophet. His musical catalog is so deep and broad that it’s both inspiring… and a bit overwhelming. It was a joy to reconnect with him for a wide-ranging conversation about his new album that also touched upon his sense of humor, guitar-playing techniques, surfing culture, and even his favorite Bob Seger song.


Photo Credit: Chuck Prophet by Kory Thibeault; Mark Erelli by Joe Navas

Amy Helm: Letters to Women and the Legacy of The Barn

Amy Helm has had one of the most fascinating lives that any person can have. As you might have guessed from her famous last name, she comes from roots music royalty. Amy is the daughter of Levon Helm, the beloved late drummer for the incredible groundbreaking Canadian-American group The Band. She also continues to run The Barn, a music venue and recording studio built by her dad and Garth Hudson, which served as Levon Helm Studios.

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In her own career, she has created a new lineage of musical tradition, family, great songwriting, poetry, and a feminine power that emanates off of her. We’re talking about her new album, Silver City, but we’re also talking about songwriting. We’re talking about grief. We’re talking about single parenthood. We’re talking about family. We’re talking about being on the road. We’re talking about how our bodies change over time and how that changes us as a vocalist and as an artist.


Photo Credit: Ebru Yildiz

Basic Folk: Lisa Loeb

Looking back at her wildly successful and always adventurous career up to this point, it feels inevitable that Lisa Loeb was always going to be a songwriter. But young Lisa probably could have done any creative job well. She grew up surrounded by music, yes, but she also had a passion for theater and got her degree in comparative literature. It was her theater and film side hustles that led Lisa to her first big break. Lisa’s friend Ethan Hawke shared her song “Stay” with Ben Stiller, who included the song in the soundtrack for the film Reality Bites. “Stay” was a massive hit and Lisa was the first-ever artist to have a Number 1 hit on the Billboard charts without a recording contract.

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The second act of Loeb’s career is the main focus of our Basic Folk conversation. This chapter in the book of Lisa Loeb is all about… children’s music! As her latest album, That’s What It’s All About, demonstrates, Loeb has managed to keep playfulness and curiosity at the center of her life well into adulthood. She has figured out the delicate balance of making music for kids that adults can relate to as well. Happy memories of music from her own childhood, as well as nods to her elders, make this new record a sonic storybook that listeners of all ages will enjoy.


Photo Credit: Juan Patino

Out Now: Sam Gleaves

Last month, Sam Gleaves released his latest album, Honest, with the intention of sharing his truth. Sam was born and raised in southwest Virginia.

Songs from the project, like “Queer Cowboy” and “Fear,” were written for his partner and detail queer experiences. Lyrics like “Love is stronger than fear” point toward the challenges of being part of the LGBTQ+ community and the need for authentic love. Other songs address his parents, like “Walnut Tree,” written for his father, and “Beautiful” for his mother. Both songs feel nostalgic and share the value of simple things like gratitude and a day outside, under the trees.

In our Out Now interview, Sam shares his current state of mind, his favorite LGBTQ+ artists, the best advice he’s ever received, and more.

What is your current state of mind?

I feel grateful. After years of work, the new record Honest is out in the world! I am fortunate to have worked with a bunch of my dear friends in the creative process. They are all world-class musicians and singers. Hasee Ciaccio and Josh Goforth were the core team in the studio. We arranged the songs together and recorded most of them as a trio. Josh Goforth is a genius producer and his vision really made the songs shine. A number of my favorite musicians and singers guested on various tracks, like Carla Gover, Linda Jean Stokley, Jared Tyler, Jeff Taylor, and Chris Rosser. I’m proud of every second of music we created together.

Why do you create music? What’s more satisfying to you, the process or the outcome?

What a great question! I create music because I need it. I love storytelling. I walk through memories in my writing process. In the songs I selected for my new record, I wanted to honor the people who have shaped my journey: family, musical collaborators, and lovers. All of those people are tied to places etched onto my heart, especially southwest Virginia and central Kentucky. I process grief through my songwriting, because there is great injustice in our world and that affects the people and places that I love. Most of all, songwriting is restorative and the songs become a mode of connection.

What’s the best advice you’ve ever gotten?

To try to laugh or smile when I make a mistake. I feel that applies in my musical life and the rest of my life!

Who are your favorite LGBTQ+ artists and bands?

I have too many favorite LGBTQ+ artists and bands to name! I am grateful for friendships with my mentors, who are also pioneers, like Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer, Peggy Seeger, and the members of Kentucky’s own Reel World String Band.

Over the past decade or so, it has been a great joy to see the many roots musicians that are celebrating their identities, folks like Justin Hiltner, Jake Blount, Jared Tyler, Tyler Hughes, Amythyst Kiah, Pierceton Hobbs, Larah Helayne, and many others. The list goes on and on!

For anyone reading this who might not be out of the closet, were there any specific people, musicians, or resources that helped you find yourself as a queer individual?

When I was in my early twenties, I met Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer. Cathy and Marcy have been the two most generous, supportive, and loving mentors in my musical life. Cathy produced my first record, Ain’t We Brothers, and Cathy and Marcy both played on it. Their mentoring helped me to learn to believe in my art and pour myself into it. By being life partners and musical partners in the traditional music world, Cathy and Marcy created space for musicians like me to be part of the community. They are committed to celebrating diversity and advocating for social justice through their music. I think that all young LGBTQ+ people should hear Cathy and Marcy’s recordings, especially Cathy’s song “Names” and Fred Small’s song “Everything Possible.” I am one of many folks who have benefited from Cathy and Marcy’s wisdom and friendship.

Around the same time that I met Cathy and Marcy, I heard Gaye Adegbalola perform. Gaye’s music, her luminous personality, and her openness about her identities made a great impact on me. I was deeply moved to witness an artist so firmly rooted in blues traditions telling her story as a queer Black woman. At that time, Gaye had recently recorded an album called Gaye Without Shame, one of my absolute favorite records. I didn’t realize how much shame I held around my queerness until I heard Gaye sing her brilliant songs with such confidence and verve. From the moment we met, Gaye encouraged me and poured out love. As she says herself, Gaye has a whole lot of mojo to give!


Photo Credit: Erica Chambers

Dallas Burrow on Only Vans with Bri Bagwell

One of my favorite people on earth, Dallas Burrow, stopped by for this new episode of Only Vans to talk about owning a music venue, shamans, Charley Crockett, having a complicated past, and all the good vibes!

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Find Dallas’s music, podcast, tour dates and merchandise here.

Thanks to our sponsors for this episode, The MusicFest at Steamboat, Lakeside Tax & CH Lonestar Promo!


Editor’s Note: Only Vans with Bri Bagwell is the latest addition to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about the podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.

Open Mic: Charlie Peacock Pushes Through Chronic Pain on ‘EVERY KIND OF UH-OH’

With a 40+ year career spanning virtually every aspect of the music business – from performing and songwriting to production, development and even education – Charlie Peacock has battled myriad creative challenges. A standout in the Contemporary Christian format who was also deeply involved in the Americana folk boom of the 2010s (he was even the driving force behind The Civil Wars’ mainstream emergence), no problem seemed too big to handle. But for his new album EVERY KIND OF UH-OH, Peacock had to overcome an obstacle unlike the rest: a rare, debilitating health condition.

Diagnosed with Dysautonomia and Central Sensitization, Peacock has essentially been experiencing a never-ending headache since 2017 – seven grueling years and counting. Needless to say, it has upended the GRAMMY winner’s life, and while some days are better than others, the chronic pain prevented him from music making all together– until a flash of writing in 2023, that is.

Featuring 10 all-new songs penned in a two-week flurry, EVERY KIND OF UH-OH finds Peacock getting back to work, but with fresh appreciation for life’s messy beauty. Co-produced with his son Sam Ashworth, a peaceful mix of dream-folk and gospel match a tender, feathery tenor, as Peacock explores against-the-odds optimism with spirituality, purpose, and humor. In the end, it feels like a veteran songsmith’s statement of revelation; and a set of life lessons delivered with knowledge, not judgement.

Still fighting symptoms on the morning after a party celebrating the album’s arrival, Peacock spoke with BGS about how his life transformed and how it forever changed the way he makes music. Peacock also plans to release his memoir, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music in February.

We’re really interested in the way things like creativity and mindfulness and health intersect, so I’m fascinated by your story. Can you just tell me how you’re feeling today – both in a micro sense and in terms of the bigger picture with everything you’ve been through?

Charlie Peacock: Well, just for the background, I have a neurological disorder called Central Sensitization, which is a pain management disorder between the brain and the central nervous system about how pain is managed. So, my brain got tricked into thinking I am in trouble, and it’s sending me pain signals. Basically in the same way that if I scratched my arm on something, that scratch pain is there to tell me, “Hey, there’s something wrong with your arm. You might want to take a look at it.” Well, the brain functions in that way for all our pain management throughout our entire body.

So mine, this disorder that I have is that everyday for almost eight years, I’ve had an intractable headache. I’ve had an eight-year headache basically, and it goes up and down in terms of intensity. Sometimes it’s “You’ve got to go to the hospital” intensity. And most of the time it’s just sort of like a three or a four [on a scale of one to 10]. And I’ve learned to function through various methodologies and mindfulness and various kinds of treatments that I’ve done.

I imagine on top of the physical side of things, it has impacted your creativity. How did this change the way you look at making music?

Well, it got me back in some ways. It got me out of the music business and back into music making.

Really? How so?

At the point when I got sick, I was just turning 60 years old. So I was a 60-year-old man who’d been in the music business for 42 years, who was in writing rooms with 20-somethings. And even though part of my whole thing as a songwriter and a producer is that I’ve stayed relatively current, you’re still a person of your time and your generation. It’s like, could I make a trap song? Absolutely. But will I make one that is convincing to people who listen to trap? Maybe not. …

I was functioning more as the older, experienced sage that comes in and cleans up people’s songs. And so what the illness did was it put me back in that more childlike place of working on my own music and experiencing just the joy of creating, rather than coming in as the expert who’s going to be the song doctor or the producer who’s going to give that artist that extra 23% that makes them commercially viable or something like that. So that has been a real joy. And then of course, as I’ve said many times, it’s like you take care of the music and it takes care of you. That’s been the case just in terms of imagination and creativity during this illness, where it’s been a part of my medicine for sure.

Here we are eight years after the illness started and you’ve got a new record. What changed to bring this music out?

Well, [before] this illness period I had gone to Lipscomb University and created their commercial music program, and then became the head of the School of Music for a year. And it was during that time that I got sick. I was already kind of moving out of the producer-for-hire model and kind of had this education piece that was on my bucket list. So I had gone and done that and then I was just here working, making a lot of music, doing a lot of writing, working on a family, a screenplay for a family story from the 1800s, just doing a bunch of different creative things. …

[After the illness], I just had a willingness to say, “If my music career is over at this point, then I will have been really grateful.” And this memoir is kind the period on the end of the sentence. Then all of a sudden it was like I woke up one morning like “Is that an idea for a song?” It was brewing. So I started working on it and then a few more. And then I asked my son, “Hey, you want to help me finish this song?” I go out to his house and we hang and work on this song. We’re both super excited about it. And then he finally, after hearing more of the music, he was like, “Dad, you got to promise me you’ll take this seriously. Don’t just tell everybody, ‘Hey, I have a new record out on Friday and buy a couple ads on Facebook and call it a day.’ I think you need to actually do an old school release and get a distributor and have them set the record up.”

I said, “I don’t know if I have the energy for that.” But [Sam] said, “Well, I’ll help you.” And so he did help me. Really, the whole family has been a huge help. Sam came alongside me and he co-produced the record and we co-wrote three songs on it. And literally, it’s a 10-song album. Within 14 days. I had all 10 songs written. And it was just one of those times where it was just time to do that. I didn’t know it was, but it was.

Fortunately, I also had some pretty good windows of health that I could [record]. I had some days when I tried to sing where it’s just like, “Man, it’s just not happening.” But I’d wait a few days and get rested up again and go up to the studio and sing, and it would still be there. I was actually surprised myself, some of the range that I was able to sing at still.

Have the songs taken on a new shape for you or a new dimension, topic-wise and thematically?

Well, my great-grandfather was a fiddler in Louisiana and my grandfather from Oklahoma loved to sing all the Okie songs of the era. And I thought, let me just lean into that a little bit. So I would say this record is a little taste of that, especially the instrumentation is pretty much still the same in terms of rootsy guitars and just simple drums and bass and fiddle and pedal steel. And the only difference between this record is I really leaned into the gospel vocal sound. A lot of my friends that have been dominant in Black gospel music. And so that’s a difference. Narrative-wise, I was really trying to do this kind of literary thing that was a mix of plain-speak American roots, with these literary elements, and then also take a spiritual element, but not make it religious, and try to create a narrative that was uniquely American. I think in its influence, it’s almost like reading some of the classic American novelists.

There’s a wonderful mix of storytelling and deeper spirituality, for sure. Thank you, Charlie. I’ll just leave you with the big picture. What do you hope people take away from this record?

I think for me, even listening to the songs and seeing the reaction from folks, what they said afterwards is, “This is a world that I want to enter into. There’s something about what you’re creating on this record, this musical world, and this invitation to come on in that feels really safe and that I will belong here and I’ll be well loved, cared for, not judged – allowed to just be myself.”

And I think that’s what we want. I mean, I think that’s what makes our heart beat, is that we just want to be known totally. We want to be known like the intricacies of our personalities. We don’t want to be known superficially. And I hope there’s something about this music that sends that signal that, yeah, I do too. Come on in and listen and see if you find some of that here.


Photo Credit: Jeremy Cowart

Basic Folk: Bruce Molsky & Darol Anger

The names Bruce Molsky and Darol Anger have come up more often than not when talking to fiddlers on Basic Folk. The pair have single-handedly mentored hundreds of our favorites in fiddle music at Berklee College of Music in Boston, Darol’s online music school, music camps, festivals, and more. The pair joined us on the occasion of their newest folk music collab, their new album Lockdown Breakdown. Folk music has often been associate with nerdiness, so we get right into their nerdy roots with Bruce’s love of fountain pens, his background in mechanical engineering, and all facts about American roots music, bluegrass, and fiddle music you can stand.

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Both talk about their origins: Bruce in the Bronx and Darol in Northern California, which eventually led him to become a co-founding member of the David Grisman Quintet. We discuss the social aspect of the old time and bluegrass world and how that has translated into the way they each approach socializing. Then, we get into the thousands of fiddle lessons they’ve given younger players and why they like to mentor younger generations.

And of course, we chat about the album, which was recorded live in a Nashville studio in just a few days. Darol and Bruce talk about what the energy was like in the room for all their live takes during the session. It was a pleasure to speak with these two very funny, very influential musicians! They are doing incredible and important work.


Photo Credit: Jeppe Blomgren

BGS 5+5: Max McNown

Artist: Max McNown
Hometown: Bend, Oregon
Latest Album: Wandering
Personal Nicknames (or rejected band names): Almost went by Max Winter (Winter is my middle name)!

What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?

My pre-show rituals remain somewhat consistent from show to show. I stay hydrated throughout the day leading up to soundcheck and I typically take it easy on my voice while I rehearse the songs (because I haven’t warmed up at that point). Post-soundcheck, I rest in the green room and use a steam inhaler to clear my sinuses before letting my vocal cords cool down from the heat for at least 30 minutes. After that, I kill time until around 30 minutes before I hit the stage, occupying myself with iPhone games to distract me from the pre-show nerves. At 20 minutes before the show I do a 10 minute vocal routine. At the 10 minute mark I call a circle with my band and say a prayer of thankfulness, asking that whatever happens, we impact the crowd for good. Minutes before stepping on the stage I conduct a box breathing exercise to slow my heart rate, and I’m off to the races!

If you had to write a mission statement for your career, what would it be?

Growing up, I leaned on music to get me through some of my most difficult moments. If I could summarize my “mission” it would be to return that healing… To repay what music has done for me to those who hear my own songs.

How often do you hide behind a character in a song or use “you” when it’s actually “me”?

Considering nearly all my songs are directly influenced by my own life, I hide behind characters often. I purposefully keep it vague when discussing which lines in which songs are fully “true stories.” Some of the most impactful films of my life are “based on a true story” and I take that knowledge into every writing room. Occasionally I take liberties when storytelling, but a lot of my work is pretty accurate to my own life journey.

Does pineapple really belong on pizza?

Considering Hawaiian-style pizza is one of my favorite foods, I strongly believe if you enjoy the taste, you can put whatever you want on pizza!

If you were a color, what shade would you be – and why?

If I were a color I’d have to think I’d be my favorite one, forest green… Simply because of my upbringing in the lush Oregon trees, my green eyes, and my love for nature!


Photo Credit: Benjamin Edwards

Balancing Dreams and Reality: A Folk Debate on Ambition

Welcome to another edition of Folk Debate Club, our occasional debate series! To discuss ambition vs. acceptance, we welcome our panel: music journalist Kim Ruehl, Basic Folk boss Cindy Howes, and yours truly Lizzie No. We would like to extend a very warm welcome to our special guests singer-songwriter Michaela Anne and producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, also hosts of The Other 22 Hours podcast. In our lively conversation we work through thoughts and feelings about the definition of ambition: a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work. We take the approach from a music industry, folk music and even dive into the audience perspective of how fans might feel about an artist’s ambition.

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It is no surprise that capitalism gets rung right out as a reason that ambition goes wrong for artists. As Kim says, “​Art ​is ​like ​the ​nervous ​system ​of ​humanity,” and mixing creation with ambition-gone-wrong is a dangerous game that a lot (most?) professional musicians play with at some point in their careers. This episode has everything: navigating our way out of toxic work environments, messy reactions to unpopular yet important political stances and how to not throw away the people who disagree with you. Listen along and enjoy the ride.


Photo Credit: Lizzie No by Cole Neilson; Cindy Howes by Liz Dutton; Michaela Anne and producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss; Kim Ruehl by Rich Amory