Tag: Doyle Lawson

“Not Easy Shoes to Fill” – Russell Moore Gets the Gig of a Lifetime: Alison Krauss & Union Station

Posted on by Justin Hiltner

Russell Moore has been a professional musician and bandleader for 40 years and, though he wouldn’t describe himself as complacent, he does readily admit he generally knows what he can expect from that job.

“It’s almost like, ‘Okay, I know what this week is going to bring and what next week is going to bring,’” he shares over the phone. “It’s the same thing, even though you try to explore different opportunities … I never would have thought that at this point in my career that this opportunity would arise.”

Back in early December 2024, Alison Krauss & Union Station announced their first headline tour in nearly ten years and, with that announcement, that Moore himself would be joining the band. The bluegrass community responded with an outpouring of love for Moore, his talent, and his iconic, long-running bluegrass band IIIrd Tyme Out while marveling at how perfectly he and his voice would fit into one of the most prominent, best-loved, and best-selling string bands in music history.

Once fears of IIIrd Tyme Out being benched were totally allayed – the band has lasted 34 years so far and has no plans to curtail their efforts with Moore’s new gig – the ‘grass community set their sights on the next announcement from AKUS, which came in January: Arcadia, their first album since 2011’s Paper Airplane, will release March 28.

Arcadia will be the starting pistol for a breakneck six-month tour that will find Alison Krauss & Union Station (and their newest member, Moore) criss-crossing the continent to perform at some of the most notable venues and festivals in the scene. Many of which Moore will find himself checking off his bucket list for the very first time.

To mark the occasion, and as we anxiously count down the weeks to Arcadia and the Arcadia Tour, we sat down with Russell Moore to chat about his career, his plans for IIIrd Tyme Out, and how energized and excited he is by this once-in-a-lifetime chance. As he puts it, he has very big shoes to fill – but perhaps he is the only one concerned about having the chops to fill them.

You’ve been leading your own band for so long and you’ve been the person to “make the call” – hiring a sideman, or hiring someone to fill in, or finding a new band member. So how does it feel at this stage in your career to get this kind of call to join a band like Allison Krauss & Union Station? How does it feel to be on the receiving end for a change?

Russell Moore: What a blessing. It’s definitely the other side of the fence! For 34 years I’ve been running IIIrd Tyme Out and making the decisions or helping make the decisions. That’s a job in itself. You wear many different hats when you’re doing that.

The last time that I was in a situation like I’m going into with AKUS was back when I was with Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver. That was basically, “I’m the guy that plays guitar and I sing” and everything else was pretty much taken care of. Since then, up ‘til now with IIIrd Tyme Out, I’ve been heavily involved with all the decisions and making things happen, which like I said, it requires several different hats to wear day-in and day-out.

This is going back to that time, before IIIrd Tyme Out. And I’m excited about it. It really gives me the opportunity to focus totally on the music and my part in the band, rather than anything else that goes along with running a band. That’s exciting in itself. I will say, it’s going to take some getting used to, because I know that I’m going to be saying, “Oh, what can I do today to help this thing out?” That’s going to be a change of pace for me!

But I’m looking forward to it. Honestly, I’m looking forward to not having to worry about anything else other than my position in AKUS and just doing my job to the best of my ability and that’s it. That’s gonna be pretty cool. I guess you would say a little weight off of my shoulders.

You can set down the CEO hat and pick up the “being an instrumentalist and a vocalist and a technician” hat. Of course it’s got to feel exciting in some ways to get to step back into that role of being an equal part collaborator in a band instead of having to wear so many hats and having to be a lightning rod for everything.

RM: It is. It definitely is. I did experience just a little bit of this a few years ago. Jerry Douglas called and asked if I could go out for a few days with the Earls of Leicester, which I did and it was the same thing. I played mandolin and I sang my harmony parts with Shawn [Camp]. And I didn’t have to do anything else. That was all I had to do. For a few days there, I got to relieve myself of all the responsibilities of running a touring band on the road, and it was cool. I enjoyed it. I really did.

I’m not going to lie, I’m not saying that I don’t enjoy running a band, I’m not saying that whatsoever! But it was nice to step back for a few days and just be that. So I see this, for the six months between April and September, being sort of in the same picture. I wanna focus everything I can, all the time I’ve got, on playing the music, being in the position that I’m in, and doing the best I can. Just focusing on that. That’s going to be cool. I’m not going to have to worry about, “Did the bus get there on time? Is there something wrong with the bus?”

I know I’m not the only one who was super excited to hear this news and also thought immediately, “I never would have connected these dots myself, but who else has a better voice for that gig?” You think of Dan Tyminski, of Adam Steffey, the guys who have been singing vocals in this band, they have that sort of warm, honeyed, Mac Wiseman-like bluegrass voice – less of the high lonesome and piercing, even though you have the range and you can get up there, too.

So many people’s reaction to the announcement was that you have a voice that’s perfect for this gig and for what we all come to expect as the AKUS sound. Did you have that realization too? Did you think, “Oh yeah, this is perfect for my voice”? Or did you feel like, “I’m going to have to work at this.”

What was your general reaction, musically, to coming into this? Not just as a guitarist, but also as a vocalist – and then, I assume you’ll be playing some mandolin too, like you said you were doing with Earls of Leicester. So how are you approaching it musically?

RM: I will be playing a little bit of mandolin, not a whole lot, but my main gig I guess you’d say would be playing guitar and vocals – harmony vocals and some lead vocals as well. I’ll be honest with you, Justin, I was concerned about some of the harmony singing. That’s the biggest thing.

It’s really intricate.

RM: It is very intricate! It’s not in the same breath that I usually sing at. I tend to sing very full throated. For lack of a better term, it’s a male voice trying to sing very high. I do it in a robust way. I do have subtleties that I use as well, but this application of trying to blend with Alison’s voice is a different place to be, for me, for sure.

I do sing harmony and I have for years, here and there, but still my vocal technique has always been full throated and far more harsh, a male vocalist trying to sing very high. This is a different application. I tried to do that on all the songs that I’m going to be singing harmony on with Alison, it would be too abrasive. I’m learning how to make it work with my voice and her voice. That is a really nice combination, [you don’t want] me standing out because of my approach to the harmony.

Of course, I do have songs that I’ll be singing lead on. Those, I’m just back to my old self doing my thing. But when it comes to the harmony stuff, most of the time I’m having to really listen and focus on how to project my voice to make her sound as best as she can and not interfere.

Are you going to be singing lead on some of your own music with AKUS?

RM: No. There might be one song, and I’m not going to give away any of the stuff that she has planned for the set list, but there might be one song that people recognize from IIIrd Tyme Out during the performance. For the most part, this is Union Station. We’re not trying to bring in Russell Moore and IIIrd Tyme Out into the project whatsoever. We’re still around, we’re going to be performing when I’m not on the road with AKUS. There might be a small ode to IIIrd Tyme Out during the show, but it will be very small.

I’m not here to promote IIIrd Tyme Out with Alison Krauss. I’m here to promote Alison Krauss & Union Station and to be a part of that group and promote what this record release is and the stage show. I am a team player and I told them all, “You’ll never find anybody that’s more of a team player than I am, because I understand what that means.”

You’ve seen it on both sides. I’m glad you mentioned IIIrd Tyme Out continuing, because I think a lot of people’s natural reaction to the news was, “What about IIIrd Tyme Out!?” Of course IIIrd Tyme Out’s been going for so long, they’re gonna keep going.

RM: IIIrd Tyme Out is here to stay. When the conversations started about my being a part of Union Station going forward, I had a lot of questions. Can I do this? Should I do this? And that was one of them: “Will my band support me in this decision, or if I say yes, will they support me?”

[I consulted] my family, my wife, and everybody around me – it wasn’t a decision that was made quickly. I had to talk to people. Once I talked to my band members and I got their total support and thumbs-up affirmation – along with my wife, family, and friends – it was just like, “Okay, I have no reason not to do this. Everybody says I should and it’s a great opportunity.” At that point, I said yes.

Hopefully I can fulfill the position, because it’s not easy shoes to fill. I can tell you that right now I’m a huge Dan Tyminski fan. I have been since he came onto the scene way back – we’re talking Lonesome River Band days. He is so unique and his position with Union Station, until recently with his own band, that was the epitome of his career in my opinion.

Then, of course, he gets the head nod for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? And the Stanley Brothers song, “Man of Constant Sorrow,” it’s still incorporated into his shows. I love the Stanley Brothers’ [version of the] song. I really do. But when I think about that song, I think about Dan Tyminski.

I guess the point is I’m a huge fan of Dan and his work. He is such an intricate part of what Union Station has been up to now. I think that those are big shoes to fill. I just hope I can facilitate that to everybody’s liking. I know there’s going to be some people that say, “No, it’s not Dan, it’s just not the same.” But I do want to say there are [many] eras of Union Station that were awesome, as well. You go back to when other people were in the group. Adam Steffey–

I’m partial to the Alison Brown era, too.

RM: Alison Brown! Oh, gosh, yes. Tim Stafford along that same time. I can’t say there’s been a bad ensemble for AKUS. It’s just evolved. And the fact that Dan was there for so long, that kind of solidifies that is the sound that most people – especially younger people who didn’t really start listening to AKUS until let’s say 20 years ago – are hearing. What they’re hearing is Dan Tyminski on guitar, singing harmony, and singing lead. That’s what they’re used to. That’s what they realize is AKUS music, and here’s this Texas guy coming in here trying to fill those shoes. I just hope I can satisfy everybody. I’ll do the best I can.

Alison Krauss & Union Station shot by Randee St. Nicholas with Russell Moore second from right.

It’s gotta feel exciting, especially after having done something like this your whole entire life, to have that sort of childlike wonder at it feeling so brand new and so fresh. Even after you have done literally exactly this for so long, there are still things that you’re excited to accomplish and new territory you’re excited to explore. That sounds really energizing and really positive.

RM: It is energizing. I’ll be honest, Justin, I’ve been playing music full time for a good 40 years. That’s awesome. And at this point, after 34 years of IIIrd Tyme Out – I’m not going to say I’ve become complacent, but it’s almost like, “Okay, I know what this week is going to bring and what next week is going to bring.” It’s the same thing, even though you try to explore different opportunities and things that come within that.

But this, I never would have thought that at this point in my career that this opportunity would arise and I’d get to do something like this. Because, like I said, I’m not so much complacent, but I know what’s ahead. When the phone call was made and we talked, I had no idea that I had another option, another fork in the road. This is absolutely surreal, in a lot of ways, for me to get this opportunity and without giving up IIIrd Tyme Out. All the support from everybody that I know, like I said, there was no reason to say no.

Another part of this that I’m really excited about [is being] able to experience some of these places, these venues, these shows that I’ve never been to before. Just being able to experience it – like playing Red Rocks Amphitheatre – and just so many places that I’ve always wanted to go to and perform at. I’m going to get to do that!

Checking them off the bucket list.

RM: There you go. It wouldn’t be possible, I don’t believe, with IIIrd Tyme Out. I was always exploring new opportunities and things like that, but I don’t think it would have been possible to perform at some of these places without being a part of AKUS.

To me, “Looks Like the End of the Road,” the first single from the upcoming album, feels like classic AKUS. The So Long, So Wrong era is what it reminded me of first. You still have those tinges of adult contemporary, you have the pads and the synth-y sound bed underneath it, and it almost feels transatlantic a bit here and there. Overall, it sounds like classic, iconic Allison Krauss & Union Station. What are your thoughts or feelings on the single or what can you tell us about that first track?

RM: I think that the song is a great representation of what is coming out with the full album release, Arcadia. It is a great nod to Alison Krauss & Union Station music over the last several years and the last several recordings.

I think that the song itself is just well written and perfect for Alison to sing. There’s a small part of harmony vocals – and what I love about the way she constructs her arrangements is that it’s not overdone with harmonies. This is Alison Krauss & Union Station, it’s not just Union Station. So the focus is on Alison and her vocals. In my opinion, that’s the way it should be. This song doesn’t come out from the get go with a five-string banjo just blasting off. It’s a great construction of the arrangement and the vocals.I think it was perfect.

The only thing that people have said is that the title itself made them think that this was the end of Allison Krauss & Union Station! Which is so far detached from the truth. It was just the first single that was released. It’s a beautifully constructed song.
I will say, this song is just a piece of the puzzle to the rest of the recording. It just paints a beautiful picture and a wonderful listening experience. When people get to hear the full album, they’ll understand what I’m talking about. It’s just awesome. It’s just, it’s a piece of the puzzle.

You’re going to be blown away. Absolutely blown away, as I was. I had my headphones on. I can’t tell you how many nights before I’d go to sleep, I’d have my headphones on [listening]. I listened to it two, three times a night, just because it was so enjoyable. It was just that good. I know that everybody else is gonna feel the same way when they hear the whole project.

Photo Credit: Matt Morrison

Jim Mills: A Remembrance – By Tim Stafford

Posted on by Justin Hiltner

(Editor’s Note: Below, Grammy award and IBMA award winner, guitarist, songwriter, and author Tim Stafford pays tribute to his friend, collaborator, and one-of-a-kind banjo picker and historian, Jim Mills, who passed away at the age of 57 on May 3.)

I started out as a banjo player, but switched to guitar early on; our little group got a better banjo player. But I’ve always loved the banjo, especially pile-driving, inventive players like Earl Scruggs, J.D. Crowe, Paul Silvius, Ron Stewart, Ron Block, Sammy Shelor, Jason Burleson, so many others. I especially like playing rhythm guitar with a great banjo player – it’s like a bluegrass drum track. I’ve not enjoyed that feeling any more than when I got to play with Jim Mills.

Jim was a force of nature on the banjo. He was such a fluid, powerful player and he could be very aggressive on the instrument, which stood in strict opposition to his demeanor – they didn’t call him “Smiling Jimmy Mills” by accident. He played things on record that I had to continually rewind. How did the banjo survive that?

(L-R:) Barry Bales, Stuart Duncan, Jim Mills, Adam Steffey, Tim Stafford, and Brent Truitt, Nashville, TN 1998. Photo by Mike Kelly.

Once in the studio, I remember Jim breaking a string on the intro to “Bear Tracks,” a pretty hilarious outtake. It sounded like the world had exploded in the headphones. Jim just said, “What the ?!??!?” and Barry Bales let out a huge laugh – we had never heard anything like it.

It amazed me how eloquently Jim could talk in quiet rapid stretches and at length about everything related to old, Gibson flathead banjos. Like most vintage instrument topics, it’s a field of deep arcana, and the club sometimes seems too exclusive even if you truly love the sound of the things. But Jim never made it seem like anything but pure joy when he spoke, always returning to that million dollar smile. He was sharp, his collection of instruments was unrivaled, and he turned the basement of his house into a showroom.

And boy, did he know Earl Scruggs and his playing – inside out, all his instruments, all the bootleg recordings, even ephemera related to Flatt & Scruggs. He collected it and treasured it all, because it had never really gotten any better than Earl as far as Jim was concerned. The fact that Jim’s “desert island banjo” was Mack Crowe’s 1940 gold-plated RB-75 was validated for him by the fact that Scruggs himself mentioned Crowe as an influence on his playing in his 1968 book Earl Scruggs and the Five-String Banjo. Of course, Jim wrote his own definitive book, Gibson Mastertone: Flathead Five-String Banjos of the 1930s and 1940s.

Extremely intelligent, driven people are usually good at whatever they put their minds to. Tony Rice’s passion was restoring and repairing Bulova Accutron watches, and he was considered an authority in that area of expertise by people who had no idea he even played guitar. Ricky Skaggs told me that Mills was very involved in buying and trading antique shotguns as well as banjos and was just as well known in that arena.

It was all part of one cloth for Jim, though. A third-generation banjoist, a native son of North Carolina – the homeplace of the bluegrass banjo and a place so many great players still call home. When he joined Ricky Skaggs’s Kentucky Thunder, it was on one condition — he was staying in North Carolina.

We first met in the early ’90s when he was playing with Doyle Lawson and I was part of Alison Krauss and Union Station. He, Barry Bales, Adam Steffey, and I jammed for hours one day in Tulsa, Oklahoma as I recall. One of the songs he wanted to do repeatedly was “John Henry Blues.”

A few years later, the three of us played on Jim’s first solo record, Bound to Ride, for Barry Poss and Sugar Hill records. We tracked it at Brent Truitt’s Le Garage studio along with Stuart Duncan. Later Jerry Douglas overdubbed and Ricky Skaggs, Alan O’Bryant and Don Rigsby came in for guest vocals. And I sang “John Henry Blues.” It was such an honor to be on this record. Later on he did an instructional DVD for John Lawless and Acutab and I ended up backing him up on some tunes there.

I also played on a few records with Jim during this time, including Alan Bibey’s In the Blue Room. Near the end of a Patrick McDougal song called “County Fool,” after the last chorus, I knew Jim was going to come roaring in, taking us out to the end of the song. In anticipation, I hit a G-run that ended on the downbeat, on the bottom root note, a very unusual place for a G-run. I was sure engineer Tim Austin and producer Ronnie Bowman would want me to do it over, but they liked it so it stayed. Today I listen to that track and I’m the one who’s smiling – Jim could make you do things like that.

Jim wasn’t just a banjo player – he was a fine all-around musician and singer. His lead, fingerpicked guitar playing was superb and he was a fine songwriter. One year he came up to me at IBMA and said he had a demo of a song he’d written that he was sure Blue Highway could do. The demo was just him playing all the instruments and singing and it knocked my socks off. He had pitched it to Skaggs, but the boss man passed. The tune was based on a documentary Jim had seen and was called “Pikeville Flood.” We cut it on the Midnight Storm record and it remains one of our most popular live songs.

It was always a pleasure to see Jim and just get to hang out with him. Can’t believe I won’t get the chance to do that again. RIP buddy.

Photo Credit: Richie Dotson

BGS 5+5: Jaelee Roberts

Posted on by Editor

Artist: Jaelee Roberts
Hometown: Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Latest Album: Something You Didn’t Count On (May 20, 2022)
Personal nicknames: Jae, Jae Jae, J.D., Jables, Junior, J-Bird

Which artist has influenced you the most … and how?

Well, first off, it is truly not possible for me to list just one artist … I simply cannot do it. I am going to give a “short” list of women that are really important to me: Emmylou Harris, Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt, Alison Krauss, Rhonda Vincent, Lee Ann Womack, Amanda Smith, Dale Ann Bradley, Kelsi Robertson Harrigill, and Charli Robertson Shuler. All of these crazy talented ladies have helped to shape me into the artist that I am because their music spoke to me; the songs they record/recorded helped me start my own repertoire of songs to sing; and their vocal styles — while all very different — influenced me and are part of me becoming me.

I am seriously having anxiety because I don’t want to leave out mentioning someone. Gosh! This is so hard! I do have to mention my dad’s band, The Grascals, because I was 4 years old when they started together so everything they’ve done has influenced me and they gave me my first opportunities to be on stage. Also, I just can’t talk about influences without mentioning Keith Whitley. Okay … I’ll stop. I’m so sorry that I can’t follow directions for this question!

If you had to write a mission statement for your career, what would it be?

Jaelee Roberts: Singer/songwriter with a passion for acoustic music and words that mean something.

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

Again, it is super hard to narrow my answer down to just one favorite memory because it’s special every time I’m on stage and there’s always a moment that really touches my heart. However, for this, I’m definitely going with my favorite memory being the first time I played the Grand Ole Opry with Sister Sadie on December 5, 2020. To say that I was overwhelmed with emotion that night would be a huge understatement! This particular Opry show was in honor of the 75th Anniversary of Bluegrass Music, was televised live on Circle TV, and it was my live audition with Sister Sadie … AND my first time on the Opry as an artist. It makes me nervous all over again just thinking about it! We did a soundcheck prior to the show and l looked down and saw my feet in that amazing circle and I just about lost it. I did keep it together until I got to the dressing room and then I had a pretty good cry. I literally grew up backstage at the Opry and it had been my dream to be on that stage performing as long as I can remember. All I can say is dreams do come true and I am so grateful and thankful!

What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?

This answer is actually really easy for me because I can honestly say that there wasn’t a first moment but just something that I’ve known in my heart. My parents are both musicians and their friends are musicians and all I’ve ever known is music. However, my parents did not push me into becoming a musician/singer — it was extremely important to them for that decision to be mine. I’ve been told that I started singing just about the time I started talking and that I was able to sing harmony when I was like 2 or 3 years old. I started taking fiddle lessons when I was 4 years old and I started singing in church about that same time so that’s all I’ve ever known … and all I’ve ever wanted.

What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?

I have been blessed to receive so much encouragement and support and all of the advice has been so helpful that, once again, it’s difficult to narrow it down to just one thing! Here are a few things that have really stuck with me:

1. Stay in college … do not quit!! Doyle Lawson had a conversation with me about this and that really meant a lot. I’m just about to finish my junior year of college, and when I graduate I’m sending a thank you note to Mr. Doyle!

2. Always keep God in front of everything I do. Make sure that I pray about every decision I make and to do everything for God’s glory.

3. Stay out of other people’s business and just take care of my own.

4. Never talk about anyone because gossip will always come back to bite you.

5. There will always be somebody looking to find something negative so make sure not to give them anything to use.

6. Don’t oversing … restraint is as impressive (or more so) as lots of vocal runs.

7. Don’t eat or drink any dairy products before singing.

8. Write and perform songs that I connect with.

9. Always, always treat people the way I want to be treated.

10. Many quotes from Dolly Parton, though obviously not given directly to me, are extremely good advice and things I take to heart. One of those is “I’m not into politics. I’m an entertainer.” Goodness, I love Dolly!

Photo Credit: Sandlin Gaither

Retiring From the Road, Doyle Lawson Looks Back on 59 Years in Bluegrass

Posted on by Editor

On a Friday afternoon, bluegrass legend Doyle Lawson sits in the second-story conference room of the Ole Smoky distillery in downtown Gatlinburg, Tennessee. Down below is a madhouse of people, places and things. Curious faces from across America rolling into this corner of the Great Smoky Mountains for the fall foliage. That, and wandering into the distillery for endless samples of high-octane legal moonshine, only to ready themselves for Lawson and his band Quicksilver to take the patio stage later that evening.

The inundation of blinking lights, loud noises and mass consumerism at the heart of Gatlinburg is a far cry from the Lawson’s humble beginnings in the rural countryside, in a small town outside of Kingsport just to the northeast. It’s also a long way from the starting line of when and where he first stepped into the music industry as a professional. February 1963. At just 18 years old, Lawson boarded a bus in his hometown and headed for Nashville to play banjo for Jimmy Martin & The Sunny Mountain Boys.

Martin, who grew up just down the road from Lawson in Sneedville, Tennessee, liked what he heard from Lawson and hired him to play banjo. From there, Lawson not only transitioned from Martin to J.D. Crowe & The Kentucky Mountain Boys a few years later, he eventually switched to guitar and then to mandolin — the latter instrument at the heart of Lawson’s signature look and tone.

By the early 1970s, Lawson joined The Country Gentleman, one of the biggest string acts of that period. By the end of the decade, Lawson left that group and formed his own outfit, Quicksilver. Some 42 years down the line, Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver remains a pillar of bluegrass music, headlining major festivals coast to coast, all while picking up several honors — including induction into the Bluegrass Hall of Fame (2012) and countless IBMA awards.

And yet, at age 77, Lawson has decided to hang it up, to walk away from the spotlight — on his own terms, and in his own way. There are only a handful of remaining shows left on the schedule, with Lawson making his final rounds through well-worn stomping grounds in East Tennessee, Western North Carolina and Southwestern Virginia.

Once those final notes are played and 2021 comes to a close, Lawson will say goodbye to the stage, to his bandmates, and to the audience that, over the decades, turned a young Southern Appalachian boy into an elder statesman of the “high, lonesome sound.”

BGS: Playing devil’s advocate here, if COVID hadn’t happened, would you have kept going a little longer?

Lawson: Probably, yeah. I would have gone at least through 2022, or maybe even have gone to making it an even 60 years. But I didn’t. Well, it’s kind of bittersweet. You know, at times, I’m sad to see it come to the end because I love touring. I love the travel part and all that. At the same time, there has been a huge sense of relief and a load taken off my shoulders. Because you’ve got a band and, even in the good times, you had to work hard to keep the band working, sometimes you work for everybody but yourself.

You don’t seem like someone that would drift too far from this. I mean, it’s so much a part of you and your DNA.

The touring is what I’m getting away from. I plan on doing whatever comes along that tweaks my interest. I enjoy producing other people and I’ve done some of that for the last several years. If something came along and I decide to go out and do a little pickin’ [then that’s fine]. What I don’t want to do is if [someone said], “Hey, we’re going to give you all this money if you’ll come over here and pick with so-and-so.” Well, it’s not about the money. If it doesn’t feed me musically, [I won’t do it]. It has to be structured. You know me, I like things cohesive and rehearsed. It’s not about money. Money is a necessity, but the reason I play music, first and has always been, for the love of music. And knowing that if I worked hard, we’d probably do all right monetarily.

When you look back at those early days of being a touring musician, what sticks out the most?

Quite honestly, in the early days, for most of us, we lived [two lives] because, by and large, we all had to work a day job and play music. Sometimes it entailed traveling. Sometimes it didn’t allow you to travel. But, in order to survive, you worked a day job. Of course, back then, primarily we worked clubs three or four nights a week, worked five and a half days a week in a day job. Our feet were in both worlds. But we all longed and yearned and hoped for the day that we could devote all of our energy to the music, rather than having to divide it up. I’m thankful that I was able to do that.

I think about when I’ve talked to Del McCoury, with him telling me about the days he wasn’t on the road playing music, where he was a logger and worked in construction, building nuclear power plants in Pennsylvania.

Yep, he was. I did everything. The last full-time job I had, as far a day laborer, J.D. Crowe and I worked together. He was actually my boss. We worked in the shipping department for a place in Lexington, Kentucky. The orders would come down from the office and we’d fill the order, box them up and ship them out. I’d moved down [to Lexington] from Louisville, where I was working five and a half days in a machine shop, running saws, drill presses and sanders.

Several years ago, you mentioned to me about you and J.D. playing the lounge at the Holiday Inn in Lexington.

[In Lexington], we were playing and still working the day job. We’d play in a club called Martin’s Tavern every Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Sometimes, the horse ranch people and thoroughbred farms would have a little party and we’d do those. But, a fella that owned a chain of Holiday Inns, his daughter was going to the University of Kentucky. Well, the little place we’d play, the kids would come over from the university. They’d pack it out every night. I mean, you couldn’t get in. So, this fella who owned the chain of Holiday Inns, his daughter saw us, told her dad, “You need to go see this group,” told him how the kids would come out. As it happened, he was looking for somebody that would put some bodies in his lounge because it was dead. So, he came down and talked to J.D. He watched us and was just knocked off his feet.

So, this was J.D. Crowe & The Kentucky Mountain Boys?

Yeah. That was late 1967 to early 1968. So, we took that on. Started working six nights a week. It didn’t take long before I looked at Crowe and said, “Man, I can’t work five and a half days a week and work six nights a week here. So, I’m going for it.” I quit [my day job]. I already had one foot out the door. And Crowe quit, too. That’s when we both gave up trying to work both. I’m going to play music, make it go and lock into something [real].

That’s a big decision.

It was a big decision. Go for it. I followed my heart, as [Crowe] did, too. When I worked for Jimmy [Martin], of course we toured. But it was a different level, Jimmy was in Nashville. In truth, the reason I had to leave Jimmy was because we didn’t work enough. Making what he was paying me, I couldn’t make enough money to stay, you know? That’s why we always had to work a day job. In Nashville, in the early 1960s, if you went to try to get a part-time job, if they found out you played music, most of the time they wouldn’t hire you because they knew you were going to quit or would come in trying to get time off for a show. [The day job] got to me. It was like punching the clock, which I didn’t like doing.

When I think about Bill Monroe and Jimmy Martin as bandleaders, they were like a captain of a team, this hub you went through to find your own path. What did you learn from Jimmy that you applied to being a bandleader?

Well, the one thread that would run from Bill through Jimmy to me would be — do it the way you hear it, it’s your band. The band must do what you want. That’s why Bill was such a force with his mandolin. Sometimes you could hear it when he felt like the band was not quite locked in with him, he’d bear down and you could feel him. Jimmy was the same way. I’m often asked how I’ve maintained that certain sound. Well, it’s easy. They change for me, I don’t change for them. If I was a chameleon, I wouldn’t know what I was. As far as sound-wise, it was a formula I wanted to keep, and did keep. If I kept changing every time I hired somebody for the last 42 years, I likely wouldn’t be around today talking to you.

Whether you realize it or not, you’ve always had one leg in the neo-traditional camp and one in the progressive camp. I think that comes down to the fact that you’ve always believed the most important thing is to serve the song.

It is. I’ve always believed it doesn’t matter where that song originates, where it comes from. It’s in the interpretation of that song that determines at a particular time if it’s bluegrass, country or rock. It’s not the song, it’s how you interpret it. You can make it whatever you want to make it. I’ve always been one who will step a little wide of the mark. But, I’ve never gone past where my peers didn’t go before me. I think there’s room within the realm of tradition and the value of the music to take some liberties. If you go too far, and it becomes something that nobody recognizes, then you’re no longer playing what you say you are. I believe in innovation. I think it’s vitally important for any music to be innovative. Because, if it isn’t, it’ll get stagnant.

You were good friends with Tony Rice. And you recorded a lot with him in the Bluegrass Album Band. We’re coming up on a year since his passing. What do you remember most about him, as a performer and as a person?

One of the most dedicated men to his craft that I’ve ever met. When I was working the last go-round with J.D., Tony’s older brother, Larry, was playing mandolin and I was playing guitar. We lived next to each other in Lexington. Tony came and he would stay at Larry’s. That guitar was never out of Tony’s hand. He was dedicated to it and he was inquisitive. He got to thinking beyond the borders of bluegrass. But then, his heart was in bluegrass. He called me and wanted to do a traditional bluegrass recording to let people know where our heart is. It was some of the most fun recordings I’ve ever done. At the same time, you knew you better come with your A-game because you were with the A-players.

We only meant to do one. We thought that was it. Then Tony said, “Hey, they want another album.” We had done five and Tony said no more, his voice was giving him trouble. And I thought that was the end of it. But it got to where people would say, “When’s your next album coming out?” And I’d say, “You know, we’re not even a band.” Then, Tony called up and said, “Let’s do one more, an instrumental.” So, number six we did the instrumental.

Did you get to talk to him before he passed?

I didn’t talk to him a whole lot. It was hard to talk. Sometimes out of the blue, he’d call me or text me or something. Most of the time he’d text. And I respected that because it was pretty difficult. Out of the clear blue, he’d text, “We had it going didn’t we, brother?” We did.

I would surmise that you still talk to J.D. What did you talk to him about when you decided you wanted to step away and make this decision to retire?

I called him. J.D. and Paul Williams, we’re all real close. We’ve remained friends for more than 50 years. I called J.D. and told him that I was going to hang it up. I said I’m going to step away when I’m still happy with what I just did. He said that’s the smartest thing you’ll ever do — walk away when you can still be proud. Don’t wait until it’s too late. He and I both know that some of our peers did, which is sad to see, because they were my heroes. When I talked to Paul Williams, he said the same thing.

And it just so happened that Sonny Osborne called me about something and I told him. He said, “You’re smart to do that, because if you’re not careful — and you won’t even realize it — you’ll be out there trying to do what you can’t do anymore.” I really wrestled with coming off the road at the end of this year. It took a while. But I’ve made my decision. I’m at peace with it. I can look at my career — and not to be boisterous or egotistical — and I can say that I’ve tried to represent the music and my music about as respectable of way as it could be, and I’m proud of that.

Photo Credit: Kim Brantley

LISTEN: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers, “Readin’, Rightin’, Route 23”

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Artist: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers
Hometown: Xenia, Ohio
Song: “Readin’, Rightin’, Route 23”
Album: Industrial Strength Bluegrass
Release Date: March 26, 2021
Label: Smithsonian Folkways

In Their Words: “The great Appalachian migration of the 20th century placed tens of thousands of families from the hills and hollers into the industrial region of southwestern Ohio. Three shifts a day produced steel, paper, automobiles and more, from Cincinnati northward to Hamilton, Middletown, Dayton and Springfield, in the Miami valley of Ohio. No one makes better music than homesick hillbillies and they picked and sang at neighborhood taverns, churches, radio stations and fairgrounds. My parents left Kentucky in 1964 and I was born in Middletown, Ohio, one year later. Dad was a fiddler and radio personality spotlighting bluegrass music for the entire region.

“‘Readin’, Rightin’, Route 23′ was penned by Dwight Yoakam early in his career. His roots travel US Route 23 from eastern Kentucky to the Columbus, Ohio region. My mother’s parents lived a few miles off Route 23 in Lawrence County, Kentucky, in a’ ‘holler.’ Our family made the trip from Ohio to see my mamaw and papaw Williams hundreds of times. This song’s second verse was so personal to me, it took a lot of rehearsal to sing through my emotions. Seeing their porch light burning brightly, as a kid, meant I was soon to welcomed into their loving arms. In these troubled times, it’s a memory I cherish and find very comforting.

“‘Readin’, Rightin’, Route 23′ is the opening track to the forthcoming album entitled Industrial Strength Bluegrass. The 16-song project will feature songs all connected to the rich history of bluegrass music created, written or recorded in my neighborhood, southwestern Ohio. I can’t wait until the world hears Dan Tyminski, Lee Ann Womack, Doyle Lawson and more artists performing songs draw from a deep well of classic bluegrass!” — Joe Mullins

Photo credit: Russ Carson

IBMA Virtual Business Conference: Who’s Taking Part, How to Watch, and More

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J.D. Crowe, Jerry Douglas, Sarah Jarosz, and Ronnie McCoury are just a few of the artists taking part in the IBMA Virtual World of Bluegrass, which begins today, Monday, September 28. Kristin Scott Benson, Doyle Lawson, and Mumford & Sons’ Winston Marshall are also confirmed to participate.

IBMA Virtual World of Bluegrass is an annual bluegrass music homecoming and convention that takes place online this year, encompassing the IBMA Business Conference, IBMA Bluegrass Ramble, the 31st Annual IBMA Bluegrass Music Awards, and music festival IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC running through October 3. See the full schedule.

Check out our General Information page regarding IBMA Virtual World of Bluegrass. You’ll find our full-week schedule…

Posted by International Bluegrass Music Association on Thursday, September 24, 2020

Conference registration is available at a lower price point than in years past: $99 for IBMA members, and $149 for non-members. Register here.

To stream the following sessions, as well as many others, IBMA Business Conference registration is required. Business Conference registration also allows access to other valuable content: an online version of the Gig Fair (one of the most popular conference events each year) the Songwriter Showcase, two virtual in-the-round Song Circles, the Annual IBMA Town Hall Meeting, the IBMA Virtual Exhibit Hall, and much more.


As previously announced, Sarah Jarosz will deliver the Keynote Address on Monday, September 28 to kick off this year’s virtual IBMA Business Conference. “Having attended IBMA as a young kid just getting into bluegrass, and having returned more recently as a performer at their Raleigh conference, I’m deeply honored to have been asked to be this year’s keynote speaker. I look forward to helping kick things off!” said Jarosz.

Organizers have added three presentations to lead each day’s conference activities, Tuesday through Thursday:

Tuesday at 11 AM ET: Artist-2-Artist with J.D. Crowe, Winston Marshall, and Jerry Douglas

Hall of Famer J.D. Crowe’s infusion of new ideas into bluegrass banjo took the music to a decidedly younger and more diverse crowd, inspiring a new generation of pickers and fans. His music would influence a young banjo player across the Atlantic named Winston Marshall, who would take the banjo to millions of fans worldwide. As a member of Mumford & Sons, Winston has helped completely transform the image of the banjo in popular culture. Jerry Douglas has used his dobro to build musical bridges throughout his storied career. He has shared both the stage and the studio with J.D. Crowe and Winston Marshall, and he invites you to join him and these two groundbreaking banjo players for a fun conversation about how music unites.

We just announced special feature presentations to kick off each day of the IBMA Business Conference:

Monday – Keynote…

Posted by International Bluegrass Music Association on Friday, September 18, 2020


Wednesday at 11 AM ET: Artist-2-Artist with Doyle Lawson and Kristin Scott Benson

Doyle Lawson has been a leader in bluegrass music for decades. He and Quicksilver played at a festival in Dahlonega, Georgia in the mid-eighties, and it changed the life of a young girl in the audience named Kristin. Three and a half decades later, Kristin Scott Benson is one the most celebrated banjo players of her generation and is the reigning IBMA Banjo Player of the Year. She sits down with Bluegrass Hall of Fame member, Doyle Lawson, to talk about the impact he and his music have had on her and on the bluegrass community at large.

Thursday at 11 AM ET: From the Bay, to Bean Blossom, and Back

Jerry Garcia is unquestionably a towering figure in American culture, and one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century. He and the Grateful Dead set the template for a new style of music that would inspire generations, much as Bill Monroe, The Father of Bluegrass himself, had done. What’s less known about Jerry, is that long before, during, and after the Grateful Dead, he was a banjo player, a bluegrass musician, even an aspiring Bluegrass Boy. Join Ronnie McCoury, filmmaker Brian Miklis and others in a conversation diving deep into the relationship of a true giant of American music, and the music that inspired him.

The Bluegrass Situation will proudly present our fifth annual Shout & Shine Online on Saturday, October 3rd at 2pm ET. And at press time, 30 artists have also been confirmed for a series of showcases known as the Bluegrass Ramble.

The virtual music festival IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC, will take place Oct. 2-3. Special performances by The Travelin’ McCourys with special guest Del McCoury; Steep Canyon Rangers; Jerry Douglas & Odessa Settles; Sierra Hull & Molly Tuttle are just some of the highlights that bluegrass fans can look forward to.

 

In addition, PNC Bank is boosting its support for the IBMA and bluegrass artists experiencing financial hardship due to pandemic-related performance cancellations. PNC Bank, the presenting sponsor of IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC, has announced it will match all 2020 donations made to the IBMA organization and the IBMA Trust Fund, for a total up to $50,000. (Donate now.)

IBMA is the nonprofit professional organization for the global bluegrass music community — connecting, educating and empowering bluegrass professionals and enthusiasts while honoring tradition and encouraging innovation worldwide. The organization has suffered financially this year due to pandemic-related health precautions that are preventing the IBMA World of Bluegrass event from being held in Raleigh, N.C. The IBMA Trust Fund, which is administered by IBMA, was established in 1987 as a means to offer emergency financial assistance to bluegrass music professionals. In 2020, requests for assistance have increased tenfold due in large part to COVID-19.

As the presenting sponsor of IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC since 2013, PNC Bank has helped bring bluegrass music and culture to Raleigh for what has become one of the city’s most beloved live, free events. While IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC cannot be presented as an in-person event in 2020, PNC remains committed to supporting this event and community tradition by helping deliver bluegrass programming in a virtual setting, Oct. 2-3.

Donations may be made online; additionally, those registering for the free IBMA Virtual World of Bluegrass Music Pass have the opportunity to make a donation during the online registration process. The Music Pass includes access to all music performances during the week, including IBMA Bluegrass Live! powered by PNC, the IBMA Bluegrass Music Awards presented by Count On Me NC, and IBMA Bluegrass Ramble presented by Count On Me NC.

 

Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers Turn the Dial to Bluegrass Tradition

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For the record, Joe Mullins is a cornerstone of the modern bluegrass community. He’s chairman of the International Bluegrass Music Association, as well as a radio station owner and an award-winning musician. Plus he’s just an easy guy to talk to. During a visit with the Bluegrass Situation, Mullins traced his decades-long career, from teenage gigs to For the Record, his latest album with the Radio Ramblers, featuring Jason Barie on fiddle, Mike Terry on mandolin and vocals, Duane Sparks on guitar and vocals, and Randy Barnes on upright bass and vocals.

BGS: Did you go into these latest sessions with a certain sound or musical direction in mind?

Mullins: We had three or four new songs that we wanted to do, and wanted to make those our own. I try to make certain that when we combine rare tunes that we want to cover with new songs, that we get the perfect balance of a variety of vocal and instrumental arrangements. I don’t like the same ol’, same ol’. We’re fortunate in the band to have so much vocal versatility. There are three of us that can sing any part, plus a bass singer if we want to do a quartet number. So, I make certain there’s a good balance vocal arrangements, keys, tempos, subject matter… If you listen to all 12 songs in a row, I don’t want you to get bored and go to sleep.

That’s harder than it sounds.

It is! Especially when you combine original material with some rare tunes that you want to cover, and that you want your audience to hear. I always find a few of those. We’re called the Radio Ramblers because I have been on radio and on stage since ’82. I was 16 the first time I played a major bluegrass event as a banjo player, the same year I started in broadcasting. So I’ve got a real deep well to draw from, everything from old-time stuff to contemporary country, classic country, Americana music, and everything bluegrass. On this new album, we’re covering a Johnny Cash/Hank Jr. tune (“That Old Wheel”), and doing new songs, and something from a hundred years ago, out of a hymnbook. So there’s a little bit of everything.

I’ve heard you talk before about the bluegrass history in Southwestern Ohio, and you made a reference to Sonny Osborne and J.D. Crowe as being mentors to you. What was that relationship like?

My dad was a broadcaster and a good bluegrass fiddle player. He was in and out of bands. He sat in with the Osborne Brothers a bunch when I was a kid. He sat in with J.D. Crowe when Doyle Lawson and J.D. had the Kentucky Mountain Boys going. He was on a ton of recording sessions in the ‘60s and ‘70s with a variety of bands. In Southwestern Ohio, the Cincinnati/Dayton region, it’s just thick with bluegrass history. Everybody from Flatt & Scruggs to the Stanley Brothers — they all recorded in this area at one time or another. Larry Sparks started here and grew up here.

The Osborne Brothers started here. Their parents had left Kentucky to get a job in Dayton, Ohio, when they were boys. Bobby and Sonny started their career right here in the same neighborhood where the Radio Ramblers started. They started in the late ‘40s, early ‘50s, and we started in the early 2000s. Matter of fact, Bobby started singing on the radio in Middletown, Ohio, in 1949 — the same station my dad started working at in 1964, and the same station I started working at in 1983. So there’s just a lot of connection there.

The Osborne Brothers and J.D. Crowe and Ralph Stanley and Don Reno — all these first-generation bluegrass leaders were all family friends. They were in and out of the house when I was a kid. My mom fixed breakfast or supper for everybody I just mentioned, multiple times. Dad sat in with them and played on Larry Sparks’ first record, and played on all kinds of recordings in the area. I saw these guys growing up a lot.

So when I decided to attempt the five-string banjo, I had seen J.D. Crowe and Sonny Osborne and Ralph Stanley in their prime, multiple times, and had all the recordings already in my bedroom. Then, when it came to me pretty naturally, and I had the opportunity to play and perform and record as a young guy, if I was having a struggle with something, I always had access to J.D. Crowe or Sonny Osborne or Don Reno or Ralph Stanley. “How do you do this?” “How do you that?” I got to see them often and I got some one-on-one time with all of them.

Did that strike you as amazing at the time? Or was it later in life that you realized how incredible that was?

Later in life I realized I am the most blessed guy in the world. The most fortunate cat, you know? To be 15 or 16 years old, trying to learn how to play banjo, and have access to these guys always – and get to be encouraged by them, and sing by them… Sonny especially, he would lecture about all kinds of stuff besides banjo playing. “Make sure you go to college! Quit smokin’!” That’s just who he is. We still talk often and I play one of his banjos on this record. He’s had custom banjos built and designed for many years and I’ve had one of them for the last six years.

I wanted to ask about your dad and touring with the Traditional Grass. Was he easy to travel with?

Not always. [Laughs] I often look back on the Traditional Grass – we had it going on in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. We had a ball! We were on the road all the time and back then it was just wide open. Us, the Del McCoury Band, the Bluegrass Cardinals, the Lost & Found Band — and the first generation guys were still out there. We saw the Osborne Brothers, Ralph Stanley, and Jim & Jesse all the time.

I was real young and I look back on it now a ton, because Dad was my age then. He still was a pretty hard-charger. All the other guys in the band were young and it didn’t matter how late the show was, or how long the party went on, he hung in there with us. [Laughs] He wasn’t really hard to get along with. He just got tired and cantankerous sooner than all of us young cats did, I guess. But he didn’t worry about details. He worried the most about playing great music and having a good time.

In the ‘90s, you were pretty visible with Longview, too.

Very fortunate. Worked out great. Traditional Grass toured like crazy in the early ‘90s. We burned it up from ’89 to about ’95. I about burned myself out and burned myself up, just living hard on the road. I was very fortunate to have an opportunity to buy a local radio station here in this wonderfully historic bluegrass neighborhood in Southwestern Ohio.

The Longview thing was already in the works before I came off the road with the Traditional Grass. We started conversations around ’94. I was on the road with that band through the summer of ’95 and launched my first radio station as an owner in the summer of ’95. And Longview recorded first in December of ’95, so by the time the album came out, there was a good buzz with it and it was an immediate success. And we had to go out and tour part-time.

So I had just enough time to get my radio business started and established without a heavy tour schedule. And then I had this wonderful, high-profile gig as a special event recording band that also got to tour and play everything from MerleFest to Wintergrass, from Telluride to Myrtle Beach. We played everywhere as a special event band in the late ‘90s and it kept me from falling off the radar.

If you look back on the late ‘70s when you were developing, to now, where you’re thriving in a lot of different areas, so many things have changed in bluegrass. But what would you say has been a consistent thread from those days until now?

You’ve still got to be able to play in time and sing in tune. [Laughs] I don’t care how young or old you are! Some of the consistent threads are that there’s nothing to hide behind in bluegrass music. You still have to be able to cut the gig. You still have to be able to bring it. I’m still on stage every night with five guys who have to know exactly how to manhandle their instrument, and vocally, it’s all out there.

The simplicity of that part of it — for my band and the sound we look for — it hasn’t changed. It hasn’t changed from the original formula that Monroe and the Stanleys and the Osbornes and all of ‘em have put on stage since the ‘40s and the ‘50s. It’s still got to be players that are masters at the craft. It’s still a combination of art, entertainment, and blood, sweat and tears. That’s bluegrass.

Photo credit: Amanda Martin Photography

Jamie Dailey Previews IBMA Keynote Speech on “Branding Bluegrass”

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Ten years ago, the duo of Jamie Dailey and Darrin Vincent—former members of Doyle Lawson’s Quicksilver and Ricky Skaggs’ Kentucky Thunder respectively—burst onto the bluegrass scene in a big way, winning six awards at the International Bluegrass Music Association’s (IBMA) annual gala that ranged from Emerging Artist to the marquee Entertainer of the Year title. It was an auspicious debut, echoed over the next couple of years by more IBMA trophies and other awards, too.

But the accolades of the bluegrass industry, welcome as they were, didn’t deter Dailey & Vincent and their crackerjack band from striking out on a path that’s led them far beyond the pastoral outdoor festivals that still account for much of the music’s presentation. They’ve partnered with Cracker Barrel Old Country Stores to release an immensely popular set of Statler Brothers songs; hosted their own TV shows on PBS and RFD-TV, featuring a wide array of musical styles and entertainment; toured across the country and around the world; and will be producing a Christmas special and associated album later this year. In 2016, they were inducted into the cast of the Grand Ole Opry by the noteworthy pairing of Jeannie Seely and Old Crow Medicine Show.

This year Jamie Dailey will give the keynote address at the World of Bluegrass business conference in Raleigh, North Carolina, on Tuesday, Sept. 25. The theme: “Branding Bluegrass.” Asking him about the invitation seemed like a natural place to begin our conversation.

When you got the invitation to give the World of Bluegrass keynote, did you have to think about it for a while?

Yes, sir, I was quite apprehensive about it. I have something of a different opinion about what’s going on than many do, and the way that I go about doing things business-wise—and creatively—is really not in the bluegrass vein, though it has the foundations. And as you know, when you do things like that, you’re already getting the stink-eye, as I call it. So that’s why I didn’t want to do it. But I called three of my music friends who are pretty much heavyweights in bluegrass, and one in country music. I told them and they said, “Oh, you have to do it, you have to do it.” And they kept pressuring me!

I’m not a theologian, and I don’t have 16 different degrees from Harvard hanging on the wall. But what I do have is experience and instincts. And I can see the dangers that are facing this industry, because we’re too bound by traditions—and we should be bound by traditions in general, but we can’t let that drive us to the point that the music begins to die. And that’s my concern about where we are as an industry.

You started as a full-time musician with Doyle Lawson in 1998, so you came in at the very tail end of the way things had been, and right into the thick of things—Napster, satellite radio, and so on. It seems like the industry has changed completely over your career.

It has. When I started with Doyle, I started watching what was going on. I could see the industry starting to roll over, and I could see changes coming. And I would talk with him a lot about how we needed to get a team. And we did that; we got Don Light as manager, and we went with Rounder Records. From that time to the time I left, which was after nine years, there was even more of a change in the industry. So when we got ready to start Dailey & Vincent, one of the first things I said to Darrin was, we need a publicist, a manager, a booking agent, a business manager, and a good attorney. And for a minute, Darrin looked at me like I’d lost my marbles. But I knew that with the things that were going on, with the way the business was changing, we needed a strong team. And that’s how we started. I wish more bands would take that a little more seriously than I think some do.

You guys started around the same time and place that the Infamous Stringdusters did, and even though you’re very different musically, it seemed like what you shared was an understanding that you need to take care of business.

If you want to talk about branding, the Infamous Stringdusters are a great place to start; look at what they’re doing. The Infamous Stringdusters are headlining Red Rocks; I was talking to Chris Pandolfi on the phone recently about that. They’re doing it their way—with bluegrass foundations, but adding their art form and their hearts to it. And I love to see that. They have a strong team, they have good instincts and lots of good sense, and I’m just very proud of what they’re doing.

That’s got to be a piece of the message — that you need to have a musical identity, but also have some kind of business vision to match.

You do. And if you don’t, you have to get people with you that do, to help you create that and keep it intact.

Now, here’s the other side of it all on branding, and this is something I wish our industry would get better at realizing. We live in the most interdependent age in history. And basically, interdependency means the borders of the world are more like nets than walls now; we can reach more people now than we’ve ever been able to reach. But I don’t feel like, as an industry, that we’re really taking full advantage of that. Darrin and I are trying to take all the advantage of it that we can—by TV, by radio, by doing different kinds of records, from country to bluegrass to gospel. Because we love all of it, and we like to sing and play all of it. That’s what we need to be taking more advantage of.

What do you think stands in the way of bluegrass artists doing that?

Looking at it from a bird’s-eye view, I think they’re scared to do things differently. Because they’re bound by tradition, by bluegrass music lovers who want them to do the same thing over and over and over again. They don’t want to see anything outside of a three-chord song, they don’t want to see anything that’s past a four- or five-piece bluegrass band, that takes it any different direction that what our forefathers did. But listen here: I sat with Earl Scruggs, and I asked Earl, what do you think about adding, say, drums, to a bluegrass band, and doing some different things, even a piano? He said, “I think what you are trying to do is great. Be an artist, play the music you want to play.” And he said, “Son, you’ll always have those bluegrass foundations, because it’s the way you sing.” That really stuck with me.

It seems to me that if you feel that traditional bluegrass’s existence is threatened—and it certainly is economically—then the flip side of that is, you have to be really proactive in reaching out as broadly as you possibly can.

It’s interesting that you bring that up. The first year that I booked our group, 22 of the festivals I called—that I had played with Doyle Lawson for years—had cancelled. By year two, another 13 were gone. And it kept happening. And I told Darrin and Don, here’s what we need to do: we need to start finding buildings that we can promote in; hire a promoter to do it; start learning how to fill those buildings up and put butts in those seats—get people coming to see us.

So we started that by our third year. And what has happened through that is, we grew from 300 or 400 people the first time into complete sellouts now as we go across America. Those people are telling their friends, and they’re telling their friends, and you get more people coming; our demographic is all the way from 15 years old to 95. We just have a broad-ranged audience. And now out of the 115 dates we do a year, about 75 are by ourselves in those buildings. We’re working on pulling new people, and using our TV appearances to do that; that has been an important part of our brand. The rest of the time, we do play Merlefest, or Grey Fox, or some Norman Adams festivals—and that way we make sure that our foundation is still intact with the traditions but not completely bounded by them, because the brand has to grow.

We are living in an ever-changing world, every day. Look at how the record companies are struggling to try to find ways to sell records. Look at the brand new cars that don’t even have CD players in them. People that buy new cars who don’t like to use their phone to listen to streaming services are going to have to learn to buy the records; put them on their phones; hit the Bluetooth and play them in the car. We’re faced with changes whether we want them or not, and we have to meet them head on, we have to think about it, and we have to be proactive.

What’s the biggest challenge coming in the next 10 years? Biggest opportunity? What’s on the horizon?

The biggest challenge that I do see, honestly—and I could be wrong, we’ll revisit this in five years and maybe you’ll say, “boy, Jamie, you really missed on that one”—for bluegrass artists is watching some of these festivals decline. Some of them are still in really good shape, and hopefully will continue to be, but a lot have declined. I see a demographic that follows this music that is starting to roll out, that I don’t see anymore, because they can’t get out now, they’re not as mobile.

And a lot of the younger listeners won’t come in and watch a straight-ahead bluegrass show. They might want to see Dailey & Vincent, and they might want to see the Grascals, but they also want to see Billy Strings and Molly Tuttle. So the biggest opportunity is to market to that, to become more diverse with shows like that, where everybody wins. Because if you have Billy Strings fans and Molly Tuttle fans coming, and you’ve got Dailey & Vincent fans coming and Grascals fans coming, where you have them all there, listening to all the artists, more than likely we’re going to make some fans from each other’s fan base. Our industry is making some progress there, but I think we’re running a little bit slow on that, a little bit behind.

What Darrin and I figured out very quickly is, play the music we feel in our hearts. Whether it’s original or not, whatever it is, play what we love; play it the way we like to play it, and let the chips fall where they may. And in my simple country boy head, it comes down to, if you like it, you’ll buy it and come see it. And if you don’t, you’ve got plenty of other choices to go and see other artists. And that’s kind of where we are with it. I love bluegrass. I love gospel. I love country. But we’ve got some work to do in the bluegrass industry, because I feel like we are behind.

Photo courtesy of the artist.

LISTEN: Sideline, “Their Hands Made the Music”

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Artist: Sideline
Hometown: Raleigh, North Carolina
Song: “Their Hands Made the Music”
Album: Come See About Me: A Benefit For The IBMA Trust Fund
Release Date: September 28, 2018
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

In Their Words: “This music is very giving, but it is also very demanding. Fans and aspiring musicians don’t realize the sacrifices, the brutal hours, the strain on home life and relationships, and monumental amounts of stress that go into living this life. Only to bring home much less than a living, and no possibility of retirement. This song is a salute to all of the musicians that do it for nothing but the pure love for it, and a hope that they won’t just be forgotten when they have nothing left to give.” –Skip Cherryholmes

“We wanted to record an original song for this special album. I gave Mark Brinkman the inspiration from an idea that was pitched to me from Mickey Gamble, and Mark took it and ran with it. Doyle Lawson told me it was the perfect song to open the CD. The song talks about musicians that were on top of the music field that had given so much and paved the way for the younger generation, then they suddenly fell on hard times, which is what the IBMA Trust Fund is all about. Bailey Coe is singing lead, Troy Boone and I are on harmony. Skip is on guitar and Jason Moore is on bass. This is Daniel Greeson’s first recording with the band; he’s playing twin fiddles.” –Steve Dilling

Taking the Wheel: A Visit With Rhonda Vincent

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In no small part because of her bubbly personality, Rhonda Vincent has befriended some of the biggest names in bluegrass and country music. Dolly Parton asked her to sing harmony for an upcoming film soundtrack. Bernie Taupin gave her free reign to reimagine “Please” on an Elton John tribute album. Bluegrass heroes Bobby and Sonny Osborne set aside a 10-year break of performing together to appear on her newest album and DVD, Live at the Ryman. And she’s a frequent guest on the cable series Larry’s Country Diner, where she displays her talent for singing classic country among a roster of stars from the golden era.

Yet, beyond her upbeat demeanor, the real reason these legendary artists are reaching out is simple: Vincent is in top form with her musicianship and singing ability. In concert she glides to the high notes without straining, occasionally boosted by a little jump. She easily trades off between mandolin and fiddle, although she’s just as likely to let a band member from The Rage take the spotlight.

Off stage, Vincent maintains the tireless work ethic that’s carried her from being a child prodigy in Missouri to a Grammy-winning artist. (She picked up the 2017 Grammy for Best Bluegrass Album for a live album, All the Rage: Volume 1.) She leads her business with longtime husband, Herb Sandker, and keeps her hands on all facets of the industry – and now that means the steering wheel of the bus, too.

A few days after performing at her family’s Sally Mountain Bluegrass Festival in Queen City, Missouri, Vincent invited the Bluegrass Situation into her home studio in Nashville.

On stage, you appear to be so comfortable when you talk to the crowd. Why is that important for you to do?

I love that first of all. It’s something fun for me. It’s not something fun for everyone, I realize. But that is such a part of what we do. I love meeting the people. I think my first trip to Europe was to Finland in ’92-’94 or something like that with my family. And I’m thinking, That’s going to be such a different experience. I’m thinking I’m going to Mars or something. The terrain’s going to be different and the people are going to look a different way or something, I don’t know. I got there and it’s like “This looks like Missouri.”

But I found out the people were so special. The places may look the same, but the people are what can really make it special. And I like making it an experience. People are shocked because we meet and greet after every show, and they’re like “Oh my gosh, I actually get to talk to you?” Or they come and they can’t believe it and then they don’t say anything.

And then beyond that it’s not just a show, it’s not just a meet and greet, but now with Facebook and social media I get to stay in touch with them. Not that I can answer everyone, but I have set aside a little bit of time. Usually right before I go to sleep I have about 30 minutes and I try to answer messages or respond to people.

There’s a blind girl that lives in Portland, Oregon, and she sent me a message asking how to tune her mandolin. So I took my phone and made a YouTube video and [mock playing] ding, ding, ding, ding. I said “Cody, here’s E…” And I went through that and posted that and sent that to her. And from that, she flew all the way from Oregon to my family’s festival and she performed on stage with us at Sally Mountain last week. So it’s about relationships and loving these people because they love you so much and they love the music.


What is the audition process like to be in your band? How do you pick your musicians?

Mostly I guess I would see them. Like Hunter Berry, I saw him with Melvin Goins. What struck me about him, once again, he made himself accessible. He was backstage at the festival in Eminence, Missouri, and I would see him there every year, jamming for hours before they ever went on stage. Then he was with Doyle Lawson, the same thing. Then when I had an opening on fiddle, I called him up.

First of all their style has to fit the music and Hunter has that Benny Martin feel. He has that grit, and I loved that about his fiddle style. Mike Cleveland was in the band before Hunter, very similar styles, so the style had to fit. But just always being aware. I love to get out at SPBGMA or IBMA, wherever we are at festivals, and hear young talent because you just never know. …

It’s nice that you can be the one to make those decisions. You don’t have to say, “All right let me get back to my lawyer and my label.” This is kind of a family business for you.

It is, yeah. It’s what you see is what you get. The Live at the Ryman CDs came in recently. I went by myself and loaded up 6,000 CDs and loaded them in my car to bring them to the warehouse. The guy’s like, “Don’t you have somebody to do that?” And it’s like, “Yeah I do, but this is a good workout program.” And there’s a satisfaction going, “Wow! Look how nice I stacked those, and look how nice this is.” And you know what, I’m in charge of inventory.

Back to your question about musicians… it wasn’t always so easy to find musicians. When you’re starting out and you don’t have a lot of dates, I couldn’t seem to keep the band members. And it used to be where the agency would call and they’d go “Band of the week, band of the week.” So I heard this over and over. And also there’s being a female. I had a guy that I called to audition once. We set up an audition; he called back an hour later and he goes, “My wife’s not going to let me travel with you.” I mean, I’ve been married it’ll be 35 years on Christmas Eve, so I know where I stand. You know, we have fun, but there’s a line, and we’re not going to cross that line, no one is. If you do, you wouldn’t be here.

Early on, I’d be like, “Oh my goodness, I want to keep these musicians.” Or if there was an issue, I was really learning how to deal with that. Now as I have gotten more experience, I’ve been in the business longer and my tolerance level is gone. If you’re drinking now before the show, you’re fired. But you don’t have that at first. There’s a timeline for that. It’s like trying to get musicians, then trying to keep musicians, and I’ve been through all of that.

Another thing, I had done two mainstream country albums [in the ‘90s] and for the longest time, it’s like, “Are you country or are you bluegrass?” I was clearly playing bluegrass, but I was coming from that, and so I took a mentality of always proving yourself. I felt like I had to prove that yes I am bluegrass. Or [hearing] “Well you’re not going to stick with this.” One time my whole band quit, and people were like “Oh I guess you’ll give up.” It’s like “No, that’s when I call better musicians.” Thanks to my father always saying, “Don’t let anyone say you can’t do something. You just figure out how to do it.”

Did all the band quit within a week’s time?

On the same night.

Wow.

It was right after we won [IBMA] Entertainer of the Year. I think that was 2001, maybe, yeah. Then there’s the rumors: “Oh she’s hard to deal with, she’s impossible, she did this” So this is the best one I heard and I heard it a lot: That I threw an ashtray at Mike Cleveland, who is blind. That doesn’t even make any sense. Number one, there’s no smoking on the bus so we don’t have an ashtray – or if it was a beer or whatever, I don’t know. I’ve heard that a lot. I mean, it was sort of ridiculous, it’s like “OK, it’s untrue, but whatever you think.”

I’ve worked with so many different things, and different attitudes. It was like, “Oh my gosh, what is the problem this week?” When that changed, I regrouped and for the longest time I would sit there and go, “There’s no issues, there’s no problems. What’s going to happen?” It took a long time to finally relax and go “Great people, great musicians, and how awesome not to have some sort of a meltdown every week about something.” So yeah I am not immune to that and I have been around that, but the more that you progress – now don’t try that with me. Because I’m not going to forget it. There’s not going to be a tolerance for it.

I think leadership comes from the top down, and if you’re out there working really hard and meeting those expectations too, other people will rise to the occasion.

That’s true. And that comes with the fact that I don’t ask anyone to do something that I’m not willing to do myself. In fact I’m even working on getting my CDL’s for the bus.

Is that the driving license?

Yep. Yeah, I never in my life thought I would do that, but we have the electronic logs now, and we have a driver first of all, and then Mickey [Harris, the bass player] is the second driver. But when we went to Connecticut, and they have the timelines of how long they can drive, we nearly ran out of hours. I asked the rest of the guys and nobody was interested. And then I thought, “If I’m willing to ask them, I need to be able to do that myself.” I’ve been in driver training.

Really!

I have my permit and everything. I’m excited, I am so excited! It’s so empowering, it’s like, “If I want to go somewhere on my own bus, I’m going to be able to do that!”

Photo courtesy of Rhonda Vincent