Anna Tivel and Jeffrey Martin have both released new albums in the past year that have knocked us right over. Living Thing is the most recent Anna Tivel record and Thank God We Left the Garden is the latest from Jeffrey Martin. Of all the singer-songwriter interviews and musician conversations we’ve done over the course of the pod, these two kooks have been a popular pair on this Basic Folk podcast. Their inspiration, musician life stories, and music career development have been fascinating journeys, Jeffrey being a former high school teacher and Anna spending her formative years intensely playing the fiddle before moving to Portland, Oregon at the age of 18.
In our conversation, the pair speak to several hot topics like, “Do you write about your neighbors,” “How’s your physical body at processing stress,” and “What is the point of your newsletter?” We dig right into it in true folk music podcast fashion, and these two are not holding back. If you are looking for some top notch advice, music collaboration ideas, and the latest in folk music trends – it remains to be seen whether you will find that here. What you will find are two very deep and thoughtful musicians sharing what goes on in their lives and hearts and in their designated work spaces. Spoiler alert: Anna’s office has five massive papier mâché eyeballs.
Photo Credit: Anna Tively by Cody Onthank; Jeffrey Martin by Jeffrey Martin
Great Aunt is an Australian folk duo composed of Megan Bird and Chelsea Allen. For a small outfit, they showcase a wide array of instruments – including mandolin, resonator guitar, acoustic guitar, double bass, percussive instruments, and vocals – with detailed harmonic arrangements.
Their music is groovy, with a foot-stomping feel as the base underlying relatable lyrics and stories, primarily drawing from Appalachian folk, bluegrass, and gospel music. Great Aunt is a duo with an impressive log of tours, festival shows, and releases that they’ve independently managed. Their most recent single, “What’s A Girl To Do Now,” covers issues around body image, identity, gender, safety, and equality.
We are eagerly awaiting the release of their debut full-length album, It’s All Downhill From Here, expected later this year. In the meantime, we are honored to highlight this incredible duo from all the way down in Australia, Great Aunt.
You just released “What’s A Girl To Do Now?” This powerful song addresses the struggles that women face around being “woman enough” – body image, identity, and more. Could you share more about the inspiration and meaning behind this song?
We started writing it when a lot of awful things were happening to women in our parliament that no man was ever held accountable for. We then spent a lot of time reflecting from our own place of privilege, as we watched First Nations women dying in [state] custody and the trans community being politicized and targeted by extreme acts of violence. We wanted to acknowledge how discrimination and acts of violence against women further intensifies at the intersections of race and gender. There’s a lot of work to do to support each other and fight for equity, where everyone feels safe, included, and as valued as any other woman. Space is infinite, there’s a place for all of us, except TERFs maybe.
You’re planning to release your debut full-length album, It’s All Downhill From Here, later this year. What has that process been like for you? What might listeners expect to hear from this much-anticipated release?
A diverse range of folk songs and a lot of personal stories to tell. We’ve been recording and mixing it ourselves with a vision to have some common themes throughout the album. Our main goal is to remain honest and sincere, and to try and translate that into the album.
As independent artists, what has the process been like for you to secure so many festival placements and shows? How do you balance the creative side of being artists with the business needs to book shows, attend conferences, and promote your music?
We are fiercely independent! The balance is often skewed towards the business side of things with the amount of touring we’ve accomplished in the last 12 months, including three U.S. tours. The admin feels never ending, to say the least, but we both divide and conquer with festival applications, booking tours, and the PR side of things. We even do our own artwork!
Now that we’ve put in the effort, we’re starting to get invited to festivals and events around the world, which is really exciting. This year we’re balancing it in favor of writing and recording, while we start booking our next U.S. tour for 2025!
What’s your ideal vision for your future?
In the short sighted future – to continue touring the U.S., Australia, and abroad.
More importantly, we want to continue to embrace and help grow this music community so we can all thrive. We know that without the help of this community we really wouldn’t have had the incredible experiences we’ve had, so we will continue to pay it forward however we can.
What is your greatest fear?
We fear for all of us. That things don’t get better and we never find our way as humans. The feeling of being unable to make an impact or calling for change and it falls on deaf ears, is the crossroads a lot of us have been at for a while now. We see this as key as western countries enter the next round of elections.
What is your current state of mind?
Burnout and worry, yet still optimistic? Right now we make sure we find pockets of joy, away from our devices and the news.
What would a “perfect day” look like for you?
Starting off with a big pot of coffee… or two. Then sitting in our pajamas together, in our home studio, writing and recording music throughout the day, maybe sneak in a video game or two. Then we head to a show. It doesn’t matter if we or someone else we admire is on the stage, but it’s a room full of friends and heartfelt stories.
Why do you create music? What’s more satisfying to you, the process or the outcome?
It’s a form of communication and expression that is a part of both of us. Creating or writing music is a constant process of growth and exploration. When we “finish” writing a song, record it down, and release it, it still continues to grow and evolve as we perform it.
Do you create music primarily for yourself or for others?
Our songs start from personal experience, a reflection of something from our lives. While we don’t write music with an audience, we do hope that someone out there listening to it feels less alone, and can hold onto that connection.
What’s the best advice you’ve ever gotten?
That a career in music is a long journey.
Who are your favorite LGBTQ+ artists and bands?
Some of the best music out there right now is queer music, and the list is forever growing. Adeem the Artist, Jessye DeSilva, Wiley Gaby, Crys Matthews, Brittany Ann Tranbaugh, Julie Nolen, and the beacon of light that is Allison Russell! Oh my!
We also adore Flamy Grant, Karen & the Sorrows, Amythyst Kiah, Jake Blount, and some local Australian favs are Charlotte Le Lievre, Little Wise, the Double Dole String Band, Kerryn Fields, Hana and Jessie-Lee’s Bad Habits, This Way North, and the Tuck Shop Ladies.
For anyone reading this who might not be out of the closet, were there any specific people, musicians, or resources that helped you find yourself as a queer individual?
I, [Megan], was lucky enough to attend this place called Rock’n’Roll High School in Melbourne. It was a place started by Stephanie Bourke, an icon in Australian music. She created a safe space for young women, non-binary, and queer folks to start bands and taught us how to navigate the industry. On reflection, I distinctly remember I felt safe to be myself and finally found a place of belonging, where my queerness or size wasn’t singled out as an issue to fix. It was a significant turning point for me, and it came at the perfect time.
I came out when I was a young teen, and was fighting to live every day. I had the support of my family, but was constantly abused at school and even the school itself told my parents I didn’t belong. It nearly had a devastating impact. Please. Hold on. Find a space that makes you feel alive. Find people and community that don’t question or challenge your identity, and let you just be, that is your family. If you haven’t found it yet, please don’t give up. When you do find these people, the feeling of liberation will overwhelm you with joy. Great Aunt loves you, we’re rooting for you.
What does it mean to you to be an LGBTQ+ musician?
Being a musician helped me process and get comfortable within my own skin when trying to understand my own identity. We’re queer women, our music is written from our perspective, and our songs are literal stories from our lives, so it’s inherently queer music. We don’t underestimate the importance of visibility and allyship. It’s critical for us that our music is a safe space for everyone.
What has it been like for you as Australian artists touring in the US?
As folk music has such deep seated roots within American culture, we are always humbled by the breadth of the music community in the U.S. and how welcoming and supportive they have been to us. We reflect on how lucky we are to be able to do this, and the listening rooms we’ve played that have been full to the brim with people we now call friends. There’s no music scene like it.
What are your release and touring plans for the next year?
There’ll be a couple of U.S. tours, that’s for sure. Once we have this album out, we’re already thinking about another release to follow shortly after, and really want to make the most of a slightly quieter tour schedule this year.
“Nobody tells it like it is,” Anna Tivel sings on “Disposable Camera,” the first single from her new album, Living Thing. The song radiates with the joy and pain of reality, climaxing with the lines:
That big black train is rolling And that deep down scream is growing A hurricane come howling A shot heard from the mountain A blessing and a burden I swear this will be worth it…
Which are followed by a melodic and cathartic yell. I don’t know how I first came across Tivel’s music, but when I found the song “Blue World,” I got stuck on it. I listened to it over and over, trying to take in every aspect of it, break it into pieces, open it up like a watch so that I could understand how this perfect song ticked. It is still the most beautiful meditation on dying that I’ve ever heard. “You come to the heavy gate and you open it all alone…” is a line I think about often. To me, it sounded like she herself was telling it like it is.
A few weeks after discovering “Blue World,” I was on tour with Kris Drever, who is one of my favorite folk musicians from Scotland. We were trading new music discoveries and I played him that song, after which he became obsessed with it. We traveled around listening to “Blue World” and talking about death for the rest of the tour. Giving someone a new song to love is a special kind of transaction. It’s a gift for the new listener, but also a point of pride to have found something that someone else also finds meaning in – especially when the recipient of said gift is a musician you admire. New song discoveries are an unmatchable currency, a communication beyond words.
“Blue World” sent me on a journey through Tivel’s catalogue, with hours spent listening to Small Believer, The Question, and Outsiders, before the release of her latest record on March 31. With Tivel’s latest collection, I have to come to the conclusion that someone does tell it like it is and that person is Anna Tivel. I spoke with her over the phone for BGS about the inspiration behind her songs and the unique circumstances that led to her production choices on Living Thing.
I’ve been a fan of your work for a long time and I’m curious to know what feels new and different about this record than your past work?
Anna Tivel: I think there are two main things. I’ve worked with Shane Leonard before [who produced Outsiders and The Question], but this is the deepest collaboration we’ve ever done. There is so much of his heart and his sonic experimentation in these songs.
We made this squarely in the pandemic years, so there was no way to call upon a band for live tracking. It was just me and him in his studio. He went insane trying all kinds of sounds, playing all different instruments, and I scribbled extra verses on napkins as I heard what he was coming up with. We worked all day, every day and I slept on his couch for a month. I tried to say yes to everything and I learned so much. I really feel like the sounds feel different than what we’ve worked on before.
The other thing is that going through that year, I was craving soaring choruses… more melody and rise and rhythmic happenings that I normally do. Maybe it was a result of just sitting and looking at the same window for so long. I usually write long and dark monotonous stories with no chorus at all, but I think I craved a little more hope and joy. In general I feel like less people died on this album than usually die my albums… it’s still melancholy as fuck though.
Knowing that these songs were written and recorded during that very existential time, and now that they are being released into a different time, do these songs feel different to you than they once did?
Yeah, it’s interesting, the whole process of putting out a record. I really got stuck in the machine for a little while so it took quite a long time for this album to come out.
They are older songs now in my soul, but the project still feels really fresh. I think because Shane drew them into this more alive, sonic world. It was really exciting and fun to explore joy and rhythm and movement, especially in that isolated time. It felt good to have some hope and just wiggle around and try to feel the good parts of being a human.
So coming back to it now, it feels new and exciting to take them out on the road with a band. It’s making me realize it’s fun to have some songs that we can really move into, rather than building up from the ground.
One of my favorite tracks from your new record is “Desperation” – “Real life is far from fair, you tried and tried and got nowhere/ It’s like somebody rigged the whole damn thing/ Bloody knuckles, empty hands, you want to fight, but all you ever had/ Is desperation.” Can you tell me a little about what led to that song?
I think that one came out of the heart of that pandemic time, watching people, and having an awareness of how close many folks are to the edge, simultaneously knowing how the people pulling the strings aren’t the ones close to the edge.
Maybe your kid gets sick, and you miss work, and then that’s that, you’re evicted, and into the car. You don’t choose what you’re born into and if you’re born with the short end of the stick, it’s so hard to imagine anything but that reality.
You can see getting stuck, because that imagination isn’t generously shared by the people that own it. But if people that are living in a different world reach out to help it can really change the situation. Sometimes that means helping people believe that a different reality is possible. You have to go into your mind to create what you need. It’s sort of the same idea as representation, in the sense that if you’ve seen people that feel like you in very different situations than you, you can imagine yourself into a different situation.
I want to work on making that imagination more widely available.
That’s an amazing point, and a great one to keep in mind especially for artists. Artists can and have played that role for people, I believe. Does this same idea carry through for the song, “Disposable Camera?”
I like songwriting because you’re sort of always looking inward… You think you’re reflecting the world, but so much of yourself gets in there and the things that you’re learning into. A lot of this album is about getting free, getting loose of the way that you’ve taken in that it “should be,” the way that you should express yourself or the way you should move…
A lot of friends in the pandemic were having kids or trying to have kids and I was thinking about how, when we were all born, our parents were these people. [I was] realizing that everyone making babies has no idea what is going [to happen] and it’s kind of beautiful that it’s this big wheel of nobody knowing what they’re doing. Everyone is kinda hoping that someone else will be like “this is what it is,” but maybe the not knowing is actually a freedom. It feels scary to think you’re supposed to be certain, but you aren’t yet. The freedom is that nobody actually is certain and that’s not going to change.
I was listening to your song “Kindness of a Liar” and thinking about how important escapism was in 2020 and 2021. How badly I needed books and TV shows to get lost in so that I could come back to the present and have energy to cope with what was happening. Is that what this song is about to you?
In this batch of songs I was thinking a lot about what is truth, what is honest, what is listening, and what is being able to have nuance in all of those realms. You don’t just stay certain. To be able to move and shift and read situations and try to be learning in real time, messily, is very different from saying, “This is a fact and I’m going to hit everyone over the head with it until I’m proven wrong, and then I’m going to pretend I never said it.”
To try and tell stories to one another that are compassionate and messy – sometimes telling a story that might not be true is the most gentle and kind thing you can do while something hard is happening.
I think it’s about recognizing how much we crave each other’s stories and being really aware of how we paint the world for each other. The more artfully and more compassionately we tell each other’s stories the more we connect, and it’s not about trying to prove our point.
The most loving thing you can do is to share your mind and heart with people in the most nuanced way. And maybe there’s some fiction and lore in that.
There’s something in the water in Kentucky that’s conducive to making great songwriters, and the second annual Sleeping In The Woods Festival — held May 17-19 in Monticello — was no exception.
Hosted by artist and songwriter Nicholas Jamerson, the gathering has quickly become a can’t-miss attraction featuring a mix of the Commonwealth’s most revered songwriters, as well as the ones they’ll eventually be handing the reins off to. The setting of Hidden Ridge camping — a birch tree-covered campground nestled along Lake Cumberland — further elevated its intimate feeling (in addition to providing a canopy of shade during a deluge of rain Friday).
However, despite Mother Nature’s best efforts on day one, the few hundred in attendance didn’t have their spirits dampened by the soggy forecast, instead filling out a massive tent by the festival’s second stage for a songwriter round to open things up. Featuring Ryan Anderson of Louisville rock band Bendigo Fletcher alongside Jamerson, in a last minute change of plans, the two opted to debut entirely new and unrecorded music during the hour-long round, further putting a microscope on their superb songwriting, the stories behind them, and the creative process at an event built for exactly that. Outside of rain pattering on the tent above, you could hear a pin drop. Even though fans weren’t familiar with these songs, it was obvious they were captivated by the occasion, a sign of the duo’s songwriting prowess and power of getting caught up in the moment.
Nicholas Jamerson and Ryan Anderson (Bendigo Fletcher) open Sleeping In The Woods festival with a songwriter round.
“Getting to play all new songs with Ryan Anderson felt like the perfect way to set the tone for the festival,” Jamerson tells BGS. “I’ve admired him so getting to share that space meant a lot.”
Following the round of new material was one of the festival’s few non-Kentucky acts, Cristina Vane. As a result I found myself talking with countless folks as she set up about what to expect from the electrifying slide guitar and banjo picker, but even my best of introductions couldn’t have prepared them for the show she gave them.
Working as a trio with drums and bass guitar, Vane tore through originals like “Blueberry Hill” and “Small Town Nashville Blues” alongside new songs like “You Ain’t Special” and sweltering covers like James McMurtry’s “Choctaw Bingo.” Through it all, she had the crowd at her will, seemingly unaware of the rain falling around them, including myself.
Cristina Vane performs at Sleeping In The Woods.
Although I’ve seen Vane perform several times, each occasion always feels like a first due to the versatility of her band setups. I’ve seen her play solo, with a full electric band, a full bluegrass band, and now as an electric three-piece; each show feels so different. Her songwriting is built for a festival like Sleeping In The Woods, but how she’s able to plug and play, presenting her music in many different ways is what truly sets her apart. Fans on Friday seemed to agree, giving Vane a ferocious standing ovation at her set’s conclusion, something that even she didn’t seem to expect.
“It was cool seeing people react to acts they hadn’t seen,” shares Jamerson. “I felt like Cristina Vane, The Dick and Tammy Show (Justin Clyde Williams and Tyler Hatley), and Josh Slone all made really huge impressions on people.”
Another out-of-state act integral to the weekend was Rachel Baiman. The Nashville-based multi-instrumentalist was everywhere over the three-day event, starting with a songwriter workshop she led to begin Saturday’s musical menu. Attended by around 50 under the tent that Cristina Vane rocked out the night prior, the croissant-fueled workshop saw Baiman working with fellow songwriters and aspiring ones alike to take internal conflicts and turn them into external ones via song.
This drew a mix of interesting inspiration from the heavy — a man trying to fit in with his different groups of friends and a mom and pop trying everything to keep their small business afloat — to tongue-in-cheek ones, like a prompt about how losing your Chapstick makes you feel like an inadequate lover.
“The songwriting workshop was both a complete joy and completely terrifying,” recalls Baiman. “Trying to ‘teach’ songwriting to some of my favorite songwriters felt a little crazy, but I think it really contributed to the class, because we could hear ideas from newcomers and seasoned professionals side by side.”
Rachel Baiman leads a songwriting workshop on day 2 of Sleeping In The Woods festival.
Outside of the workshop, Baiman also led a songwriter round of her own on Sunday afternoon that she used to showcase recent co-writes with Pony Bradshaw (“Equine Elvis”), Caroline Spence (“Throw Away The Moon”), and Jamerson, who joined her for a performance of their song, “The Vine That Ate The South,” due out next month. Additionally, she took to the stage with Leah Blevins, an Eastern Kentucky singer by way of Nashville, prior to Sunday’s round, fiddling with the Sandy Hook native on a selection of songs including the nostalgic “First Time Feeling.”
The set was a grounding one for Blevins, who expressed a longing to return home from Nashville in recent months even as she’s hit a breakthrough, signing a publishing and management deal with Major Bob Music in April. She expects to begin recording a new album soon.
“Any opportunity to be back home in Kentucky is a true sense of comfort,” says Blevins. “There are so many unbelievably talented artists there and this weekend was a true representation of that. It’s inspiring and always humbling to share the stage with folks that you genuinely respect like Nicholas. He’s always made me feel welcomed and his kindness alone is influential on a human level.”
Other Kentucky luminaries that stood out included Somerset’s Cody Lee Meece, brothers Wes and Aaron Smith — who were joined by Anderson on synth for an intriguing acousti-tronic sound — along with Ryan Allen & Maggie Noëlle’s stripped down versions of songs from their band, Magnolia Boulevard, and a Saturday evening round featuring three of the state’s stars of tomorrow: Salyersville native Zoe Howard, Hindman’s Josh Slone, and Central Kentucky’s Ireland Owens.
But it was Hunter Flynn, one of the state’s other promising young talents, that garnered the most attention. A local boy from just up the road in Somerset, Flynn’s Sunday afternoon set showcased the singer’s sensational songwriting and holler yell on cuts like “Spanish Street Signs” and “Fucked Up Brain” that have earned him recent gigs on the road with Zach Top and Ian Munsick, among others.
Hunter Flynn performs Sunday afternoon at Sleeping In The Woods festival.
In a pay-it-forward fashion similar to how Jamerson is platforming new artists with the festival, Flynn — who won a recording package from festival sponsor Jamm Nation during the event — plans to serve up his studio time to young artists in need on a collaborative EP that Jamerson will produce. According to Flynn, he wouldn’t be where he is today without Jamerson’s music and guidance.
“Before I knew Childers, before I knew Sturgill, before I knew Stapleton; I knew Nicholas Jamerson,” explains Flynn. “He might not have been the first to do it, but he was the first person that I knew from the Appalachian region that was writing songs and playing them for a living. Now I don’t know a single singer/songwriter from this region who doesn’t cover at least one of his songs. He could win six Grammys next year and it wouldn’t be as much recognition as he deserves.”
A more seasoned Kentucky artist that also turned heads was Henry County’s Joe Clark, who pulled back the curtain on songs typically backed by his country rock band, The Peacemakers, that touch on everything from drug addiction to the love he has for his father. Clark was hard to miss all weekend due to his towering presence, but heartfelt songs like “Wishin’ Well” and “Battlefield” showed a soft side to counter his hard exterior, one of the many things a powerful song can do.
Joe Clark takes the stage at Sleeping In The Woods festival.
“Music is my therapist. Along with my children and family it’s kept me sober and alive for years,” confides Clark. “I owe my life to songwriting. It is a power greater than me and I’m honored to put pen to paper each time a lyric comes to me. My biggest hope is to be able to take my real life experience and translate it through song in a way that someone else can take it and make it theirs and use it in a healing way for themselves. Music is medicine, and I believe everyone needs a daily dose to stay healthy.”
Closing out Sleeping In The Woods was one of the most iconic and influential Kentucky songwriters ever – Darrell Scott. For nearly two hours on Sunday afternoon the trailblazer showed off his fiery picking skills on iconic songs like “Never Leave Harlan Alive” and “It’s A Great Day To Be Alive,” giving all of the artists and fans in attendance something to look up to and aspire to in the process. The performance also left many in the audience visibly emotional including Jamerson, who could be seen tearing up throughout it.
“Having Darrell there really meant a lot,” reflects Jamerson. “It felt like we had the full spectrum of musicians, from green, next generation, seasoned vets and a master in Darrell. We are hoping to expose the youngins to a sustainable path in this industry, so having someone like Darrell was really validating for me.”
Darrell Scott headlines Kentucky’s Sleeping In The Woods festival.
From vets like Darrell Scott to youngins like Josh Slone, Zoe Howard, and Hunter Flynn, and present day stars like Nicholas Jamerson, Sleeping In The Woods was proof of many things — that Kentucky music is in as good a place it’s ever been, that smaller, niche festivals do have a place in today’s music landscape, and that great songwriting will never go out of style.
“It feels like the best way to kick off the year,” describes Jamerson, who’d been laying low since his two-night Hollerday Gitdown in December. “It’s such a great group of people that makes it all happen. It’s also really grounding, inspiring and a nice reminder of the community of people that I’m a part of, which is uplifting and gives me life going into the busy season.”
All photos by Joe Wilkins, courtesy of Sleeping In The Woods festival.
(Editor’s Note: BGS is proud to announce the addition of Only Vans with Bri Bagwell to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about our newest podcast coming on board here.)
Live from the legendary Saxon Pub in Austin, Texas, Only Vans host Bri Bagwell sits with friend and BMI’s Executive Director of Creative in Texas, Mitch Ballard. They discuss what BMI is and why it’s important, along with the constantly evolving nature of the music business and what BMI is doing to keep up and help artists.
When I was asked to put together a Mixtape for BGS, I was on my way from Jazz Fest in New Orleans to a Warrior PATHH/Songwriting With Soldiers post-traumatic growth trip to Southwest Missouri. My mind was making the transition from pure pleasure and celebrating the life of Jimmy Buffett, who was not only universally loved, but was also personally very good to me. He was my songwriting partner for 20 years. My mind was switching from that to creating a blank slate, so that I could listen to six women who served in combat and one woman who served in law-enforcement – and listen to their stories without judgment.
My involvement with Songwriting With Soldiers, and now their affiliate post-traumatic growth program, Warrior PATHH, really comes out of simply being asked to do it. Then once I had done it, I fell in love with the people– the combat veterans, the first responders, men and women. I am most interested in the human connection, the connection between communities who may not run into one another on a day-to-day basis. Being around people who are struggling with trauma and doing everything they can to get better for themselves, their families, their careers, and their friends, it’s nothing short of pure inspiration.
I understand Memorial Day is to honor those who have fallen in the line of duty, specifically in war. But after all these years of working with the people who survived, I cannot help but think of them as well. We also work with the families of the fallen, so I think Memorial Day for me is first and foremost about the fallen, but also about the families left behind and the soldiers who survived, but who were left with the mark of trauma.
This playlist is not a journey through a literal Memorial Day. Study some history, some first-hand reports about the mayhem of war. I could not make a playlist only about those who gave all. In my work and journey through listening and writing with veterans and first responders, I am learning so much about human beings struggling to be better.
That’s what this is about. And that’s how I would like to honor the fallen this Memorial Day: We promise you we are trying to get better. You did not die in vain. I have been given the opportunity to leave myself behind a bit, listen to other people’s stories, and use the gift I have of songwriting for a whole new purpose. And that’s my angle on this playlist. – Will Kimbrough
“Walking in the Valley of the Shadow” – Will Kimbrough
Sometimes we have to carry on, even though holes in our shoes and our clothes are torn. Even though someone doesn’t want us to be here. Sometimes we have to carry on.
“The Ballad of Ira Hayes” – Kate Campbell
Johnny Cash may have the definitive version, of course, but I love Kate’s version so much. She has so much heart.
“The Ballad of Cape Henry” – Todd Snider
This is one that I helped write. Sometimes paying attention to what surrounds you while you’re on the road is real important. Read the historical marker. Look at the land around it. We made this up on that old Virginia shore.
“The War After the War” – Mary Gauthier
Just a perfect song about an imperfect world. People struggling. I played on this record and Mary got me involved with Songwriting With Soldiers. Changed my life. Full stop.
“Buffalo Soldiers” – Bob Marley
As I write this, I’m getting ready to write a song with women combat veterans at a retreat center, in a building named after the Tuskegee Airmen.
“Bubbles Up” – Jimmy Buffett
I cowrote this, using experience I’ve had with combat veterans and first responders. Thinking about post-traumatic growth. And Jimmy brought his experience taking the Navy Diving Course. We wanted to help someone find the surface, the plot, the purpose… when the journey gets long.
“Sam Stone” – John Prine
You have to include “Sam Stone” by John Prine on Memorial Day.
“Bang the Drum Slowly” – Emmylou Harris
Emmylou wrote this for her Dad – a Marine and a POW during the Korean War – with Guy Clark.
“Still Learning How to Fly” – Rodney Crowell
For all the vets I’ve written with!
“Gimme Shelter” – The Rolling Stones
Just saw the Stones at Jazz Fest in New Orleans! Still powerful after 55 years.
“Uncivil War” – Shemekia Copeland
Just a reminder that veterans fought for our freedom to disagree. That’s a big part of our American story. This song, which I cowrote with John Hahn for the great Shemekia Copeland, mourns the divide in our culture. Peace, y’all!
“Anything Helps” – Dean Owens
I wrote this with my friend Dean. He had played a songwriter show at an Austin homeless shelter that was full of veterans. I had bought an American flag lapel pin from a homeless veteran in Nashville. We put our heads together. Sometimes the sacrifice of war comes later, when the veteran is unhoused.
“Angel Flight” – Darden Smith
A great Memorial Day song by the cofounder of Songwriting With Soldiers. Written with the amazing Radney Foster.
“Isolation” – Will Kimbrough
Isolation is a word I hear every time I write with veterans.
“America the Beautiful” – Ray Charles
It really is beautiful. I need to get to work now, but as I look out on the Ozark Mountains in the Tuskegee Airmen building, I can hear Brother Ray Charles sing. And I believe him.
In 1993, Alice Randall became the first Black female songwriter to pen a #1 country hit (“XXX’s and OOO’s” recorded by Trisha Yearwood).
Even today, over thirty years later, the representation of Black writers on Music Row is seriously lacking. But that doesn’t diminish the immense talents that have found success in Nashville, both writing for themselves and others. From Shy Carter to Brittney Spencer, here are eight Black songwriters changing the country music scene one song at a time
Hometown: Detroit, MI
Songwriter, author, and educator Alice Randall is a Harvard grad, a New York Times best-selling novelist, a professor of African American and Diaspora Studies at Vanderbilt University, and was the first Black woman to co-write a number-one country song with Trisha Yearwood’s “XXX’s and OOO’s.” Her songs have been cut by artists like Glen Campbell, Mark O’Connor, Radney Foster, Holly Dunn, and many others.
Alice is a preeminent historian telling the story of the immense and foundational influence of Black people on country music, a narrative largely eclipsed by Nashville’s retelling of the origins of the genre. She recently released a new book called My Black Country, alongside an Oh Boy Records album release of Randall’s songs performed by prominent Black women artists.
Hometown: Baltimore, MD
A fateful viral tweet in 2020 may have brought powerhouse performer and songwriter Brittney Spencer to the spotlight but her phenomenal songwriting and performing talents have positioned her as a key voice in the zeitgeist. Raised in a musical family, she began singing at an early age at her church in Baltimore. She honed her musical abilities on the piano and guitar before moving to Nashville in 2013 to attend MTSU and pursue a career in country music.
Her candid truth-telling pushes boundaries and opens doors that were previously hard to open. She told CBS News, “I don’t know, I’m a plus-size Black girl from Baltimore City, in Nashville doing country music. On paper that sounds weird as hell!”
Her meteoric rise has placed her on stages with some of the all-time greats like Willie Nelson, The Chicks, Reba, and Maren Morris, and appearing on shows like The Today Show, The Late Show, the CMAs, and ACMS.
In January 2024, Spencer released her first full-length album, My Stupid Life, to much critical acclaim. She recently appeared as a guest artist on Beyoncé’s Cowboy Carter album rendition of The Beatles’ “Blackbiird.”
Hometown: Muscle Shoals, AL
Three-time Grammy nominee Jamie Moore is a multi-hyphenate embodied. As a producer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist, Moore’s rise began soon after arriving in Nashville. As a songwriter, he’s received cuts from artists across many genres like Meghan Trainor, Idina Menzel, Carrie Underwood, TobyMac, Chris Lane, Bren Joy, Blake Shelton, Florida Georgia Line, Tim McGraw, Carly Pearce, and Andy Grammer. He had 2020’s fourth most streamed song of the year with Morgan Wallen’s double platinum number-one, “Chasin’ You.” In 2016, Moore found his song “May We All” at the top of the charts with Florida Georgia Line.
Moore recently testified in front of the Tennessee House Banking and Consumer Affairs Subcommittee on behalf of the Human Artistry Campaign on the importance of protecting human creation in the face of AI developments, which led to the passage of the historic ELVIS Act.
Hometown: Arlington, TX
Raised in Texas, Mickey Guyton began singing and performing at an early age, inspired by a LeAnn Rimes’ performance of “The Star-Spangled Banner.” Her resilient career has been bolstered by her commitment and passion for addressing societal issues and her own, sometimes bumpy, journey to the forefront of country music.
Leaving Texas for California, Guyton spent the early years of her career in Los Angeles before arriving in Nashville in 2011. She signed to Capitol Records and released Unbreakable, her first EP, in 2015 and hit the charts topping out at #34 with her single “Better Than You Left Me.”
Out of the events of the momentous summer of 2020, in the wake of the George Floyd protests and the Black Lives Matter movement, Guyton released “Black Like Me” to much critical acclaim and her first GRAMMY nomination. With a shift to an open and passionate reflection on her experiences with racism and sexism in the country music world, her songwriting and performances launched her to international stardom. She was the first Black woman to host the Academy of Country Music Awards in 2021. In a full circle moment for the performer, Guyton performed “The Star-Spangled Banner” at the 2024 Super Bowl.
Hometown: Savannah, GA
Along with his brother Carlos, as songwriting duo Jackie Boyz, the Batteys have written and produced songs for artists like Madonna, Justin Bieber, and David Guetta. Raised in Georgia and named after their mother Jackie, the two moved to Los Angeles and together received a GRAMMY Award for 2011’s David Guetta-led remix of Madonna’s “Revolver” and went on to receive many more nominations.
Steven relocated from LA to Nashville in 2014 to pursue a shift to country music, and quickly fell in with country darling Luke Combs. Together, they penned “One Number Away,” which reached Billboard Country Airplay’s number-one spot in 2018 and won Battey ASCAP’s Song of the Year award in 2019.
Hometown: Anchorage, AK
Though born in Alaska, Reyna Roberts’ journey to country music brought her to the American south due to her parents’ military careers. Her childhood passion for performing took the family to California so that Roberts’ could pursue a career in music. She bounced between Nashville and Los Angeles for years, honing her songwriting and performing craft before permanently relocating to Nashville in 2020. It was in Nashville that Roberts quickly became a key figure in the country music scene and a leader in the new generation of Black country artists.
Pianist, songwriter and performer Roberts released her 2020 debut single, “Stompin’ Grounds,” followed by multiple appearances on Monday Night Football. In 2021, Roberts opened for country superstar Jamey Johnson on his 2021 summer tour and shortly thereafter signed a publishing deal with Nashville-based Eclipse Music Group.
In the fall of 2023, Roberts released her debut album Bad Girl Bible, Vol. 1. Alongside Brittney Spencer, Roberts was featured on Beyoncé’s version of The Beatles’ “Blackbiird” on 2024’s Cowboy Carter.
Hometown: Memphis, TN
Genre defying songwriter, artist and producer Shy Carter was raised between the suburbs of Atlanta and Memphis. Steeped in the music of church and Beale Street and playing saxophone from an early age, Carter was discovered by a talent scout in 2007.
He had his first hit as a songwriter with Rob Thomas’ “Someday” in 2009. He secured his name in the Nashville songwriting lexicon when he penned Sugarland’s infectious bop “Stuck Like Glue” in 2010.
With production, featured artist, and songwriting credits a mile long, including Charlie Puth, Billy Currington, Tim McGraw and Faith Hill, Kane Brown, TobyMac, Jamie Foxx, Keith Urban, and Meghan Trainor, Shy Carter is solidified as a go-to creator in the Nashville country music scene.
Hometown: Columbus, GA
Grammy-nominated, multi-genre, and multi-hyphenate INK has been on the songwriting scene since 2015. She has collaborated with artists like Tamar Braxton, Monica, Rick Ross, Chris Brown, and Leon Bridges. In 2022, she penned three songs on Beyoncé’s powerhouse album Renaissance, including “Alien Superstar.”
Always rooted in her southern upbringing, INK was a natural call for Beyoncé to collaborate with on Cowboy Carter (which INK revealed was actually completed prior to the release of Renaissance). INK wrote and produced the wildly successful single “16 Carriages.” She also recently penned songs for artists Joy Oladukon and Jennifer Lopez.
A deep reflection born from a time of the extreme silence and noise of the pandemic, Kaïa Kater’s new album, Strange Medicine (out today, May 17), digs into the feelings society tells us not to feel, imagines healing and revenge from abuses, and reckons with themes of racism and sexism of the past and today. While the undercurrents are heavy, the arrangements are gentle and flowing, juxtaposing our expectations of what we think it means to process the darkness in life with the truth that many emotions can exist simultaneously.
Written from home in Montreal, Strange Medicine takes us on a cathartic journey imagining characters interwoven with parts of Kater and parts of the world she observes. Drawing on inspiration from artists like Steve Reich, Brian Blade, and Johnny Greenwood and partnering with Montreal-based producer Joe Grass (The Barr Brothers and Elisapie), she took a different musical path than in the past.
Leaning into her primary instrument, banjo, Grass and Kater built the framework for each of the tracks slowly, starting with bedroom tracks and expanding to include arrangers like Franky Rousseau (Andrew Bird, Chris Thile) and Dominic Mekky (Caroline Shaw, Sara Bareilles) and musicians Rob Moose (Bon Iver, Phoebe Bridgers, Paul Simon), Robbie Kuster (Patrick Watson), and Phil Melanson (Andy Shauf, Sam Gendel). Kater spoke to BGS via Zoom.
Hi! How are you?
Kaia Kater: I’m okay! A couple of days ago I dropped my phone directly onto my laptop screen and it cracked. I had to go to Apple. So I am without a laptop, but thankfully have my 10-year-old iPad, bless her!
Apple is coming in clutch. Also, Apple product destroying Apple product is kind of funny.
Yeah, it’s an Apple-on-Apple hate crime. It’s terrible. I feel so weird about it. But I have AppleCare, which is good.
With the couple of sentences that you just said it’s no wonder the Department of Justice is looking into Apple as a monopoly. Vertical integration. Well, how are things going other than Apple problems?
The record is out in a week, so I’m excited. Thank you for doing this piece. I never take any press for granted, especially after the pandemic, when things were so terrible and hard.
What a weird time. Is that when you started writing this record?
Yeah, pretty much. I wrote my first song in April of 2020. We finished the record in 2023. So I would say like 2020 to 2022, was the writing window.
This album is a pandemic baby!
It is. Yeah, I’m proud of my little pandemic baby. Born out of a lot of feelings of stasis and confusion, but also just so fun to record. I think that there’s a lot of grief in the lyrics. But you can still vibe to sad songs, especially when they feel groovy. So that was the intent.
So when did you start recording it?
Let’s see, we went in to record in October of 2022 but the official recording days were preceded by a ton of demo days. So throughout 2021 and into 2022, I would go to my co-producer Joe’s studio in Montreal. We would just track stuff and either bring people in or ship the songs out to people and pay them a demo fee and have them kind of like splash around and see what their interpretation of the song was. That was kind of like how we selected personnel. I think we had a pretty strong idea of what we wanted to do by the time we got into the studio, which is so different from other projects I’ve been part of and other records I’ve done.
How was it different?
I guess, with the pandemic, I had the blessing of time, which I never had before really. With Nine Pin, I recorded on my winter break from college in my senior year, and then Grenades was done from start to finish in two weeks. And so with Strange Medicine, it was about two years. There are advantages and drawbacks to that. It is very easy to start second guessing some choices that you’d made in the previous calendar year, but I think it was to me such a novelty to be able to write and then listen back, and send the arrangement to someone and have them send their work back. It was so much more thoughtful because we had the time to do that.
That makes total sense. So you started writing it during the pandemic. What was your writing process like? Did you have ideas that you came into the lockdown with, or were you processing things in real time?
Well, originally I was like, “I’m never gonna play banjo again.” I don’t know what I was thinking. I think I was trying, to a certain extent, to escape my roots, transform, or do this phoenix thing. Where people are like, “Whoa! She was a banjo player and now she’s an electronic pop musician.” That was maybe a facet of my mid-20s to late 20s, having that crackling feeling that all the different paths your life can take feel like they’re narrowing. And so you’re kind of like fighting against that and going, “No, I still can transform again, musically.”
Really what led me to write more songs on the banjo, especially for Strange Medicine, was that it was really comforting to me. I think I went back to it after wanting to spread my wings. Once I was alone in a room I was like, “What do I want to do right now? I just wanna play banjo.” And for a long time that’s all I did. I didn’t really write. The songs trickled in bit by bit. But you know I definitely gave up that idea of trying to metamorphosize in the way that I thought I was going to. I think I did it in a different way.
Can you talk a little bit about what it meant to be in Montreal writing this record and just in general? What influence did the town have on this particular record? And how does the music community there influence you?
Well, it’s very experimental there. And there’s a kind of freedom and risk-taking. People are not afraid to have things fail or to have things not quite work. Even now, I’m sort of deconstructing the idea that I grew up with, this idea of what a songwriter is, which is that you work really hard at your craft, you play the song down. And the way that you improve every night is how you perfect and tighten the song as much as possible. I’ve been getting into this idea of improvisation.
I don’t know if it’s because the rent is cheaper there, so you don’t have to hustle as much. I just felt so much more space to play around.
While we’re on the subject of Montreal, you collaborated with Allison Russell on “In Montreal” about your shared hometown. I was curious since Aoife O’Donovan is from Massachusetts and you’re talking about witches on “The Witch” – was that a purposeful choice?
No, but that occurred to me about a week ago. I was making dinner, and I was like, “Wait. Aoife’s from Massachusetts!” It must have been in some way subconscious. I kind of see people as the roots that they’ve grown from. And definitely, when thinking about the features I wanted, I wanted it to make sense with who that person is. For example, with Taj Mahal, he’s who I learned about the black roots of the banjo from first. He was doing that in the ‘60s, and he has a lot of Calypso and Caribbean influences and heritage. Bringing him into a song about a Caribbean revolutionary felt like, “Well, of course.” I even wrote him a little letter explaining the song, because he’s 80. He doesn’t need to be on anybody’s record. And so I was like, “Let me tell you what the song is about, and maybe you’ll want to sing on it.”
That’s so cool. And how did the collaboration on “The Witch” come about?
Aoife has always been really supportive of me as a person and as an artist, going back to 2017. She’s kept me in mind for a lot of things and she’s suggested me for opportunities. She’s also really community-oriented. She’s very cognizant of supporting women musicians and young musicians. I’m a mega fan of hers.
I had written “The Witch” and I thought she would sound great on it. Fast forward to the end of the process, when all we had left to do was harmony vocals and I was really nervous to ask her because I think I was scared to get a no. But I’ve been practicing. You have to ask, because if you don’t ask you don’t receive anything. I texted her, and she immediately responded yes without even hearing the song. Then she laid down all these like really intricate harmony parts. She’s a genius.
Your voices are beautiful together. It works really well. And the Massachusetts thing — it’s perfect. While we’re on the subject of that song, what connects you to the stories of these women who were accused of witchcraft or adultery and were punished for it?
To me, it is the juxtaposition of having this perceived power in the minds of men as being capable of influence, capable of seduction and luring, and superseding a man’s high intelligence and thoughts of himself and overtaking will power. But then, when women were accused of being witches, their already limited power just absolutely disintegrated and they were executed by mobs. I was thinking a lot about these kind of polar ideas of women having so much power over men, but then we’re struggling to be taken seriously in a workplace or struggling to feel like we are on equal footing.
I think sexism and racism today are much more insidious – as are homophobia and transphobia. It’s so palpable. Being able to give voice to someone in history who may meet a different fate; maybe they try to kill her, and she’s like,”Ha! I survived. And now, aren’t you scared of me?”
The influence came from a lot of different places; the witches from Macbeth, and the Roald Dahl witches. They are all in our popular consciousness to a certain extent, and I think we have a fascination with them.
Absolutely. Let’s talk about the song “Floodlights.” It reminded me of Joni Mitchell for two reasons. One is the sonic palette and the orchestration reminded me of her. Second, I saw a video of her recently and she was talking about how a good song should make a listener think of themselves rather than of her. That’s obviously an objective idea, but this song, though focused on a romantic relationship, reminded me of some of my own, but also friendships and working relationships and how the dynamic of one person’s power over another can be so incredibly detrimental. But there is hope and life on the other side of that. It is a special way you tell the story in a cafe where the protagonist is feeling herself rise over a past love for the first time. I was wondering if you find that you have clarity around power dynamics yourself as you grow older as the protagonist does?
I’ve recently turned 30. And to me, that seems to be the absolute blessing of your 30s, that you have this kind of clarity and understanding of who you are and what you are willing and not willing to tolerate. That song itself is about an age-gap relationship that I was in. We had an 11-year age difference. I was super young. I was 18 or 19 when we got together, and this whole conception that I had was, “I’m mature and I’m actually better than the other women my age, because I have someone who is super mature and who thinks that I’m interesting. I’m also better than the women his age. There’s something special about me,” like I felt chosen.
That was such a powerful feeling at that time when so much of my self-esteem was dependent on what other people thought of me. Slowly, through the course of this relationship, I realized that he chose me, but not for the reasons that I thought I had been chosen.
I mean he was a walking red flag and I just did not trust my intuition to understand that. This wasn’t a good scenario, and now, on the other side of it, at 30, I couldn’t imagine dating a 20-year-old. There’s an inherent power dynamic there. I wrote the beginning of the song two years before I finished it, because in the beginning, I couldn’t think of an ending. I couldn’t have seen him at a bar (which really happened) and just been scared and left. I wanted to give the protagonist a better ending than that.
It sounds like you did a lot of processing on this record through your writing, like maybe you released some frozen anger. I think most women can relate to that in general, because we are so often encouraged or told to suppress that emotion. I was wondering how your relationship with anger and revenge evolved and shifted through the creation of this album?
I think therapy seems to be a theme in a lot of artists’ albums these days. I didn’t realize how much anger I carried until I went to therapy. I had always grown up thinking that any kind of anger is debasing yourself. You’re losing power and you’re not being your highest, most evolved self.
Every time I got angry, I felt like I’d failed to access my more evolved emotions. It was through therapy that I learned that anger is, in many ways, necessary. We are refusing to be treated a certain way.
I think adventuring through these ideas of revenge where it’s like, “Well, what if I don’t choose forgiveness? What about that? Why do I have to be the peaceable one? Why do I have to be the one to absorb all of your violence, and then somehow process it out so that we’re good?” I have to say, it was really fun to write these lyrics and not shy away from some more violent imagery, especially in “The Witch.”
I heard someone say something like, “Anything that’s human is mentionable. And anything that’s mentionable is manageable.” I think singing it out is so nice because it’s mentionable. It’s manageable.
Speaking of, this is a great segue. How does it feel to perform these songs live?
It feels really good. It feels vulnerable too, having lived with them so long during the pandemic. It’s interesting to start sharing them with people. I have this ritual where the day before a single comes out, I listen to the song on a walk. And I’m like, “Okay, this is the last time this is gonna be only mine.” I think that ritual has really helped me. It’s a really personal album in a lot of ways for me.
I’m looking forward to trying it out in many different configurations, continuing the idea of play that we started out with this record, and seeing the different ways it can evolve and change.
Acclaimed bluegrass musician Missy Raines is also a very cool and funny lady, originally from West Virginia – not far from the Maryland border and the city of Cumberland. First of all, I had questions for her about why people from West Virginia are so into their state. She gets into that and also explores the influence of the vast and varied bluegrass music scene she found there, as well as the scene in nearby Washington, D.C..
Raines has made a significant impact on the genre, earning 14 International Bluegrass Music Association awards, including 10 for Bass Player of the Year. Her latest album, Highlander, showcases Raines’ mastery of the bass alongside an ensemble of top-tier musicians from Nashville – her home base for the last 34 years – and plenty of special guests, too, blending traditional bluegrass with innovative twists.
Throughout our conversation, Raines reflects on her deep connection to Appalachian culture and the Appalachian Mountains, which have profoundly influenced her music. We explore her experiences performing live at music festivals and the evolution of bluegrass music as a genre and community. We recount the passion her family felt for music, touching on the story of her mom and aunt crying their eyes out over John Duffey leaving their favorite bluegrass band, The Country Gentlemen.
Raines also talks about taking care of her late brother Rick, who died of HIV-AIDS in 1994 at the age of 39. Through that experience, she was empowered to help others whose loved ones were also dying and suffering from HIV and AIDS. With her unique blend of banjo and fiddle music, and her activism in a normally conservative genre, Raines continues to push the boundaries of the genre while staying true to its roots, making her a trailblazer in the world of Americana and folk music. Our conversation was in depth, fun and enlightening – I had high hopes for this one and I was not disappointed!
(Editor’s Note: Below, singer-songwriter and filmmaker Scott Ballew reflects on his relationship with legendary Texan musician Terry Allen for an exclusive BGS op-ed. Ballew, who directed a 2019 documentary about Allen’s life and music, Everything For All Reasons,will release a brand new album, Rio Bravo, on March 29 via La Honda Records.)
I moved back to my hometown of Austin, Texas in 2016 after 10 years of treading water in LA. California never felt like a permanent home to me, but over the course of a decade out there I was finally able to become ME. Part of that process was accepting that I was, in fact, a Texan and learning how to celebrate that.
Terry Allen’s cult album, Juarez, was reissued in 2016 around the same time I crossed state lines. It was given to me by a friend as a welcome home present. At the time, I embarrassingly only knew of Terry as the man who wrote “Amarillo Highway” as covered by Robert Earl Keen. Juarez was the first record I put on my turntable once I finally set everything up in my new south-Austin house, and it stayed there for four years. I was doing a lot of traveling back then making documentaries, and Terry’s voice traveled with me as “Cortez Sail” and “Dogwood” blared through my rental car speakers while driving through New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, and beyond.
Where had this been all my life? Was this written specifically for me? Who is Terry Allen? And how can I find him?
After a few years being back in Austin, I started a songwriting documentary series with Ryan Bingham. As the format started to take shape, we began talking about potential guests and Ryan casually mentioned he was very close with Terry and that he might be a great option. Holy shit. There wasn’t another name on the planet he could have mentioned that would have made me more excited than Terry’s.
Making The Midnight Hour was the first time the adage “don’t meet your heroes” proved to be false for me. Terry was kind, genuine, and funny. Terry reminded me that it’s ok to be Texan. And it’s ok to be creative.
Other things I’ve picked up from Terry along the way are:
The audience is irrelevant.
You have to fight for love.
Take care of your Art and your Art will take care of you.
You can have more than one calling.
Be kind.
I went on to make a longer documentary about Terry called Everything For All Reasons. I learned more about him during that process and came out liking him even more (not the case with most film projects). I tried to get David Byrne to address how unique and creative Terry was and David chose instead to focus on Terry’s family life, as that seemed more unique to him than anything else these days. He was right, and that ended up being the heartbeat of the entire film.
L: Scott Ballew, Terry Allen, and Ryan Bingham. R: Terry Allen with Scott Ballew.
At this point I like to think of Terry as my creative Godfather and someone I can always reach out to when I need a nudge to have some guts and do the right thing. He is the sole reason I started writing songs and why I had the naïve confidence to follow through and actually record them. Thank you Terry, for everything.
All photos courtesy of Scott Ballew. Lead image by Greg Giannukos.
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