Artist:Folk Bitch Trio Hometown: Melbourne, Australia Latest Album:Now Would Be A Good Time (out July 25, 2025)
(Editor’s Note: Answers have been supplied by Gracie Sinclair.)
What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?
A memory that will forever glow in my mind is one from our first ever show. We were 18, 18, and 17, and it was at the Merri Creek Tavern in Northcote, Naarm / Melbourne on the 17th of December. We now consider it the FBT Birthday.
The tavern has a tiny back room that fits about 50 people, with a little red curtained stage that is as wide as the narrow room. We all had good amounts of stage experience under our belts by that time doing other things, but it was all of our first times performing anything that we had written. The adrenaline, vulnerability, and one pint in my 17-year-old whip frame held us all up in the air. I knew secretly in my heart that we were on to something special then. Even if no one else in the room had liked it. It’s also now still the set of my stage performance dreams where I am running around looking for Jeanie and Heide, late to start our set…
What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?
We have the ritual of locking in. What this intangible act is changes depending on the situation, but it means that when we go in to sing together we are aligned. This can look like having a special sing backstage, or watching a movie on the couch together at night. But we don’t really compromise on being a unit before we do anything.
What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?
I had a very influential teacher when I went to a performing arts school for my last two years of school, who one day in the middle of a lesson said to our class – and at the time she was mainly talking to classical pianists and violinists, etc. Rather impromptu she said: “Don’t do music if you think you can do anything else. Don’t do it if you think you want to or could become a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer. Do it if and because it’s the only thing you can do.”
That has always stuck with me. I feel like she was speaking about the matter of the heart. (Would I, deep down, be secretly disappointed later in life if I hadn’t chosen working in music performance avenue?) But also she was speaking about playing to your strengths.
The further that we get into this career the more I resonate with this thought. Music performance, music writing, and the ability to creatively collaborate are all strengths that we have, but also the ability to be away from home for long times, be performers on stage and in front of the camera, run the show and run the business. All the aspects of being in a band that you wouldn’t expect, we also excel at.
I’m an excellent bartender, but I have the rare seed in me which loves to be on stage and bring everyone together. So that is the card I will play.
Does pineapple really belong on pizza?
I think Jeanie and Heide disagree with me on this one. Yes. Apologies to Italy. It’s a perfect abomination. Thank you Canada for that one, it’s very popular in Australia. People will outwardly rag on it and then you’ll see them having a slice later. I prefer it without onion. Think of a really nicely done one, with proper ham instead of shredded. It’s good!!
What’s one question you wish interviewers would stop asking you?
We get asked about our name. A lot. We get it. We love it. We are glad it seems to influence our reputation preceding us. I think sometimes the humour of it evades people, but most people get it. It was a joke that stuck because it’s simply the truth, but we are all three interesting musicians who have a lot to say about our craft and its annoying when we get less time to talk on that.
Dallas Ugly is not a country band. Except that they are?
More than a decade ago now, college classmates Eli Broxham, Owen Burton, and Libby Weitnauer began playing together as a new acoustic band, bluegrass and old-time chops combined with jazz and jammy virtuosity. Eventually, via COVID pandemic cloistering together, they crafted a collective identity as Dallas Ugly, a vibey and tight alt-country group built around original songs that made a splash with their 2022 debut, Watch Me Learn.
On that album you can hear bluegrass grit, the tenderness of folk and indie songwriting, influences of Southern rock and pop, and dashes of Texas twang – perhaps supplied by confirmation bias thanks to their moniker. On their latest album, See Me Now (released in April), the trio are abandoning any and all claims to Americana and country. But this collection – one of the best roots albums of the year – still listens like so many classic artists and albums at the intersection of indie, country, and the vast musical horizon.
When you ask the Nashville-based band how they’ve landed in this new, borderless, agnostic genre territory, they seem as surprised by their own chosen style markers and aesthetic vocabulary as their audiences. “It’s an accident,” says Weitnauer – with delight. “We don’t know why we sound this way. We’ve been able to loosen up more, build on the experience we’ve gotten just as musicians. … With this iteration, I feel like it shows a full development of our sound.”
In truth, however See Me Now and Dallas Ugly strike your ears, it’s quite a straightforward task to trace their journey through genres. (Though it’s not the most straightforward to discuss!) The trio simply follows each song down their own individual creative rabbit holes, trusting the music and each other to find or carve out sounds that encapsulate the feelings, textures, and stories that they craft together. They don’t lead the songs, the songs lead them. As a result, Dallas Ugly alchemically transform barn burning old-time fiddle, endless country twang, deep honky-tonkin’ pocket, earnest, sentimental songwriting, and pop-informed sweet tooths into smooth, artful, endlessly interesting indie rock.
Dallas Ugly’s brand of roots music – if you can call it that – is downright beautiful. We spoke to the group via phone between tours in May about making the album, claiming genre (or not), and the sometimes passive, sometimes overwrought process of shepherding these songs into the world.
I wanted to start with getting the genre conversation out of the way, as it were. Y’all have been very forward with communicating that this isn’t really a country album; that you don’t really see yourselves as a country band. You call it indie, indie-pop-rock. I hear you as decidedly Americana and country, personally. Obviously you have those indie-pop touches – plus, we know you have string band bones as well – but can you talk a little bit about your relationship to genre and how you intentionally stepped into this much more free, borderless sonic space with this project?
Libby Weitnauer: It’s funny, because as I’ve had more conversations with people since the album’s come out I’m like, we definitely marketed it wrong. [Laughs] The other way we could’ve gone – everyone is like, “Do you ever listen to Sunbelt?” “Do you ever listen to Wilco?” “What about like The Breeders?”
But you asked what were the intentional steps that we made – and I would say there have been no intentional steps towards any genre. Which is why we are having trouble pinning it down, because I think we decided to market it the indie route. Honestly, the Americana world seemingly wants to have nothing to do with our music. [Laughs] So we were like, “Okay, then, I guess it’s not Americana, I guess it’s not country.” Every time we bring it to those people they turn it away.
I would say our relationship with genre is very passive. When we’re making decisions and writing songs, genre isn’t a consideration. It’s always been that way. When we started playing together as the very goofy band that we were before this band, that was a sort of attempt at new acoustic music. It was the same thing, we just make decisions [based on] things that we like, or think we’re supposed to do sometimes, or sound good. Then it comes through this Dallas Ugly Eli-Libby-Owen filter, no matter what.
We’ve honestly tried so hard to fit into a genre. Where we’re like, “Okay! We’ve done it this time. You guys, we made a song that sounds like something else that exists.” Which is a funny thing to aspire to. Just trying to create stuff that we like and then it’s, “Oh, nope, nevermind. There it is. Just as weird as ever.”
Do you feel like the songs are what’s guiding you in that passive way? That you’re just trying to give the songs the treatment they each want or are asking for or deserve? Do you feel like it’s taste? Or is it just how it ends up is how it ends up? What do you think is the process for how it ends up being borderless and amorphous and not quite any one thing?
Owen Burton: Yeah, I think those are all in there. I think it isn’t as if we’re striving when we’re writing, it’s not like we’re intentionally pointing to a specific genre. There’s just things that we don’t realize are so genre-coded that are kind of inescapable about our musical voices. When we are asking how to start a song it’s, “Let’s do a fiddle kick.” It’s not, “Let’s do a country thing.” It’s just, “I feel like a fiddle kick would make sense.” And then, on the other end of that is people being like, “This is a country record now!”
It’s fair enough. But I think with this record, too, [as] I’ve learned with our first album – which we were like, this is a country record – I feel like we learned, in how it was received, how actually regimented the Americana style is. And how we weren’t within certain signifiers that are pretty regimented. Indie rock is way more broad, in terms of what it tolerates stylistically.
So the next one, this one, certainly can fit in that big tent. Now, the way it’s been perceived that way too, [I’ve realized] indie rock’s pretty regimented in ways that I didn’t understand, too. Mostly about singing. I think just none of us sing like indie boys. [Laughs]
LW: Or country voice. That’s the thing, I think what it comes down to is if different people were singing our songs, maybe it would be clearer. But I think, especially Owen and I, we have acquired taste, stinky cheese voices. [Laughs] It’s definitely not for everybody. Eli, obviously he doesn’t sing quite as much, but weirdly I would say Eli has the most familiar voice.
I happen to love stinky cheese.
LW: Exactly! Me too.
How does Justin Francis play into the genre paradigm here as your producer, as somebody who effortlessly walks between those sonic worlds? Can you talk a little bit about working with him and having him in the control room?
OB: He understood what we were going for. When we started, we intentionally controlled less variables going into the studio for this one. It’s not as if we had a strategy meeting about what kind of album this was gonna be before we started, making creative decisions on it. The songs were vaguely written before we went into the studio, but not arranged and not figured out like across the band ahead of time.
I feel like even just that process– I guess that’s a bit of a question, is that more of an Americana process or more of an indie rock process? I see that as more of a rock process; I feel like rock bands often go into the studio with songs not even written and they just write it in the studio. With [Justin] on board, he had all kinds of ideas when we were writing in the studio, little bits of studio vocab that we don’t have ourselves. [He] pushed and pulled in different genre directions, for sure.
LW: Part of the reason that we worked with him is we did these two singles with him, “Big Signs” and “Born Crying” just to try working with another producer and see what happens. I don’t even know that we were really [thinking] we could make an album with him, because honestly, he’s the real deal! We were like, “He’s famous, so he probably won’t make an album with us, but let’s just see what these things will sound like.” It was so effortless and he let us do our thing on those two. I feel like those [songs] are just as unhinged as anything else that we’ve made and he was right there with us with the ideas.
I would say, generally, working with him was really effortless. That’s the word I would use. The whole time, even the pre-production meetings.
Let’s talk about some of the music. My favorite is “Bad Feeling.” I know the lyric may say, “It’s a bad feeling, I don’t like it at all…” but I do like it. I like “Bad Feeling” a lot. I heard you guys play this song live a bunch before the album, too, but can you talk about the origin of it, its writing, how it came together in the studio?
LW: That’s the one song I think on the whole album that we had been performing [before recording]. Maybe “You Can Leave,” but it changed a lot. “Bad Feeling” we had been performing pretty much as it is, for the most part. I’m glad that you like it, because that was the song I was like… not disappointed in, but I had so much trouble breaking out of the live arrangement that we had. We had played it so much that I felt like the track suffered a little bit from how attached we were to the live arrangement.
But the making and the writing of that song, I feel like I wrote it [because] I’d been listening to a lot of Judee Sill. I guess I was inspired by that and was trying to capture how some of her songs, the chords move with the lyrics a lot. I didn’t end up really sounding like her at all, but some of the original harmonies we had for that song, played [off of] some of the harmonies in her music.
I feel like that song is like the epitome of my writing style, which is pretty autobiographical. Every time I try to write like feathery stuff, it sounds really goofy. And so with lyrics, I just try to find the most straightforward way I can say something. Usually that ends up being the most poetic, from my voice.
How do you know when you have a hook or you have the bit of the song that’s gonna be what everybody shouts along with? To me, it doesn’t feel like any of you are writing songs because you think they’re gonna be a hit. But at the same time, when I hear a really hooky song or a really catchy song – like basically this whole album – whether it’s “Bad Feeling” or “Sugar Crash” or “Circumstances” or “See Me Now,” I can picture a “light bulb moment” when you find that hook or line that ends up being the sing along.
LW: When I’m writing, I don’t really consciously think about hooks like this. That being said, a lot of my songs start with either a phrase or a melody. I’ll be on a walk or doing something in the kitchen just singing little thing. Like “Circumstances” – “I put a letter in the mail…” – that just happened in my brain when I was doing something. Then usually I’ll grab onto that and write the song around whatever little melody piece comes to me. I guess what ends up being the hook, a lot of the time, is what comes to me. And then I find myself singing it and I let it take off and do what it’s gonna do.
Eli Broxham: I feel like something that comes up, a question we end up asking ourselves that I’ve heard Libby ask a bunch of times is, “Is this super cheesy?” [All laugh] Which, we definitely ride the line of cheesiness, but at some point, you have to just be like, “I don’t know. I like it. And that’s good enough.” If it’s borderline to me, maybe it’ll be over the line for somebody else, but clearly, within bounds for another listener.
At some point, trust your instincts and be like, “It might be cheesy, but that’s okay.” And yeah, I think melodically is where I have my surest footing [writing hooks]. I still feel as a songwriter, if I hit the mark, it’s maybe by chance or something.
I also want to talk about “See Me Now,” because it’s the title track, because it’s a great song, but also because I feel like it epitomizes the journey y’all have been on, from Watch Me Learn to this album. Not just musically and creatively, but also genre, and also politically and socially. This song is “of the moment” in a really interesting way, because you can listen to it down and it’s a love song and it’s a song about seeing and being seen, but it’s also about perception and, “Is my existence valid?”
All of that is really deeply resonant, but if you zoom out and view the song in the context of the band, it changes its meaning. If you zoom out yet again and you view it in the context of y’all really coming together during COVID to do this project as Dallas Ugly, being friends for more than a decade, it changes the meaning of the song again. It’s a tesseract of a track where you guys are writing in four dimensions – it’s not too intellectual or conceptual, but it has endless depth. How!?
OB: I actually wrote that very quickly, because Elise Leavy was having like a songwriting circle. I hadn’t written a song terribly recently, so I was just gonna write something real quick for this. That was the song I wrote and at the time – this is years ago – I was very into that Kacey Musgraves album, Golden Hour, and the lead track, [“Slow Burn”]. That acoustic intro thing, I was messing around with that, because the chords are really simple, but the voicings are so interesting.
Those two things – “hurry up and write a song” and the somewhat new vocab I had just learned – came together. That first draft of it was soft, crummy – plus those lyrics, it’s hard to say what they’re about, because I wrote them very quick. Sometimes this spiel I give on stage is:
It’s three people meeting each other after some kind of apocalypse. In the universe of the apocalypse, because nobody has anything anymore, it’s very hard to [determine] what status anyone was before the apocalypse. It’s three different kinds of people with different former social status, wishing that people they interacted with could tell what status they used to have. People are very comfortable in their status, I feel like whether it’s high status or low status, people find comfort in both. Personal comfort in your own status and the comfort in feeling like you know how to treat people once you derive their status.
I feel like audiences never understand that spiel and it’s maybe too heady to be worth anything. [Laughs] Maybe that’s also why it feels like there’s so many different reads you could have of that song.
I think the most interesting thing about it – and maybe I’m projecting y’all – is the sentiment, “Can’t you see me now? I want you to see me.” Maybe that’s just the millennial condition. All of us having nostalgia for something that never existed, generationally, and being like, “I need you to see me. I need you to perceive me. But also I’d rather you perceive me from the golden era, from the before times. From when things were right.”
Also the “Can you hear me now?” reference of it all feels very millennial, very of the 2000s in a great way. Again, is this cheesy? No, of course not. Listen to it! But also, yes it is.
OB: Yeah, that’s where we live.
LW: That’s where we live! And I would say, before this, before the version that’s on the album, it had a very different flavor. I can’t even remember how it sounded exactly, but it was definitely more country – almost like country rock – and that was over the line. I’m glad we found [this style] and Justin helped us find that. Just pulling it back to the other side a little bit, because yeah, lyrically and melodically, it’s so solid and awesome. But we had to go to the drawing board a few times to get the setting right for it.
EB: That one is like the musical ideas are blocks that are put in place. I remember when we were doing this – after some of the drawing board stuff that Libby was talking about – but I was listening to that Mac Miller album, Circles – which I think is maybe the best Mac Miller album. I was listening to how the elements didn’t change, they just turned on and off to make the song, which I feel like is pretty common in pop and rap production. But often, especially in this band or in Americana and rock, things tend to sneak in and out and evolve.
But for that song in particular, the bass line just turns on, then turns off for a little part. It turns on and turns off. There’s different parts of different sections, but they are like binary, which I think is an interesting approach – and a first for us, in that sense. Somehow, that takes it out of the realm of cheesy country and accentuates the lyrics in a nice way. Even that final chorus, where it’s just a big pause and then the chorus turns on.
LW: That’s interesting that you say that, ’cause I feel like for my fiddling, that was the approach I took on this whole album. Honestly, until we got to the pre-production meetings I was like, “I don’t even think I’m gonna play fiddle on this album.”
I took more of [an approach like] I’m a sample of a thing, rather than being a fiddle in a band. Like even on “You Can Leave,” which is the more fiddle-y of the tracks, in the verses I’m not doing traditional fills. I’m doing this one rhythmic hook every time this comes around and that’s what I’m playing on this song.
It was the idea of turning things on and off rather than trying to be part of the whole song. And I let myself punctuate things and not feel like I need to play the whole time.
Artist:The Wildmans Hometown: Floyd, Virginia Latest Album:Longtime Friend (out July 11, 2025)
Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?
Growing up in the rich and vibrant region of the Appalachian mountains, nature has always been extremely influential to everything we do. Hearing the frogs sing in the evening or when the cicadas come out and fill the air with their hypnotic mantra every few years. Nature perseveres out here and if you want to live in it you are always battling one element or another. We don’t have AC, so in the summer all of our instruments are inundated with humidity, of course bringing them outside adds to this which we do often too. Dehumidifiers help. But it’s that soft humid atmosphere that makes the forest so lush and dense out here. I think it has always taught us a lot too living in such a rural area. And I would say the musical culture of these mountains and this region of America is possibly the most impactful aspect in our work today.
What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?
Every year as kids we got to attend the local music festival in our home town, Floydfest. We discovered so much music throughout those years and specifically it was an experience we shared at Jon Lohman’s workshop porch stage when this band The Boston Boys, along with Danny Knicely and Nate Leath, invited us up to play a couple tunes on stage. It was our first time being on stage in front of a real audience and it’s one of those quintessential moments in our lives that is significant to where we are and what we are pursuing today. I think that the relaxed and inviting atmosphere that both the musicians and the audience gave to us in that moment is something that we take with us into every show we play now.
What is a genre, album, artist, musician, or song that you adore that would surprise people?
Ever since Mk.gee dropped Two Star & The Dream Police in the beginning of 2024, it has stayed on rotation. Whether in the tour van, headphones, or home stereo. I also have a serious soft spot for 90s R&B like SWV and Soul For Real. And D’angelo always. – Aila
Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?
This is such a great question and immediately it makes me think of this scene of Leon Russell playing “Jambalaya on the Bayou” in 1972 filmed by Les Blank for his film, A Poem Is A Naked Person. This is the dream pairing right here, Leon is onstage with a plate of what appears to be half-eaten ribs sitting in front of him on his piano, full of soul and groove singing this old Hank Williams song. I mean did he wipe his hands before starting the song? It’s rock and roll, it’s Leon Russell with southern bbq. – Eli
What would a perfect day as an artist and creator look like to you?
Waking up in the morning and having a hot beverage of some sort. Tea or coffee. This is a good time to write freely, reflect. Even sing a new song. Then going outside to sit in the sun for a half hour before making a really good breakfast. We are serious about breakfast as a band, sometimes all other meals can feel like a failure while on tour, especially with dietary restrictions and what not. But we always make sure breakfast is accomplished and done right.
After breakfast, we might play some music by ourselves or with each other. Giving time and space into the day for creativity and practice. Exercise is also really important to us, this would come next as we are easing into the afternoon. Into the evening we love to have friends over to share music and food, cooking together or grilling out. Good food, good people, and good music make the world go round. All of these things are what make up a “perfect day as an artist” to us. General simplicity and grounding.
(Editor’s Note: Welcome to our Reissue series! For the past several weeks, Basic Folk has been digging back into the archives and reposting some of our favorite episodes alongside new introductions commenting on what it’s like to listen back. This is our last Reissue for now, so please enjoy!
This episode featuring separate interviews with The Indigo Girls – Amy Ray and Emily Saliers – and host Cindy Howes was originally posted winter 2019.)
Back in 2019, my now-wife and I attended the inaugural Girls Just Wanna Weekend in Cancun, Mexico, which featured an all-women lineup curated and hosted by Brandi Carlile. I was lucky enough to be able to interview The Indigo Girls there in two separate solo interviews. I still feel nervous thinking about the scene of talking to both Amy Ray and Emily Saliers in each of their (very nice!) hotel suites on my new little Shure mic that connected to my phone. Lucky for me, both Amy and Emily were really into my new mic, so it served as the best possible icebreaker. Both were very generous with their time and with their answers to my unorthodox questions.
First I got to speak to Amy Ray, who talks about growing up in a conservative, modest Southern family with her radiologist father and a smart, scholarship-attaining mother. She speaks to how her suburban upbringing and intake of conservative values of the South has influenced her identity. She shares about her father’s deep involvement in community service and the impact of her father’s generosity on her own activism. I also asked Amy about her sense of fashion and how it challenges traditional gender norms. She talks about her love for creative clothing and that her historically unconventional approach to style serves as a form of activism.
Next up: Emily Saliers. She talks about her relationship with guitar playing, tracing it back to childhood lessons at the YMCA and musical members of her family. She also points out how playing electric guitar changed the game, particularly through collaborations with Amy Ray. Emily talks about first solo album, Murmuration Nation. Released in 2017, it took a long time to come to fruition due to challenges and emotional hurdles she faced during its creation. Lyris Hung, longtime Indigo Girls friend, collaborator, and producer – including on that solo album – brought her expansive musical imagination and played a critical role in shaping the record. We also get into Emily’s love for hip-hop, specifically political hip-hop, and the profound impact the genre has had on her. Emily ends with talking about her other great love, food, by drawing parallels between the communal nature of music and cuisine, illustrating how both bring people together in meaningful ways.
(Editor’s Note: Welcome to our Reissue series! For the next several weeks, Basic Folk is digging back into the archives and reposting some of our favorite episodes alongside new introductions commenting on what it’s like to listen back. Enjoy!
This episode featuring Lizzie No interviewing Joy Oladokun was originally posted on February 24, 2022.)
Joy Oladokun grew up in Arizona listening to her dad’s extensive record collection and falling in love with the wide and wondrous world of rock and roll. You can hear these diverse sonic influences, from Genesis to Tracy Chapman, in Joy’s rootsy, contemporary, and pop-savvy 2021 album, in defense of my own happiness. Of particular note are her superpowers for melody and smart repetition, which have made her a force to be reckoned with ever since she made the leap from LA to Nashville to make a life as a musician.
Joy is not only a phenomenal songwriter, but she’s also fearless and hilarious on social media. Believe it or not, it was Twitter that brought us together and catalyzed this Basic Folk interview. It was fascinating to hear her talk about how she uses her platform as a rising star in indie pop and folk to create the kind of world she wants to see. She’s using emotional transparency as a tool for political change; she is healing in public and gently nudging others to heal as well. Her single, “keeping the light on,” is the perfect distillation of her radical softness.
Growing up in Oklahoma, Choctaw singer-songwriter Samantha Crain found solace and calm in mid-20th-century film noir, Westerns, and Broderbund Software, Inc.’s cult Where in the World Is Carmen Sandiego? media franchise. Along the way, she developed a soft spot for the vernacular term for a private detective, “gumshoe.”
“I’d always write it in my notebooks, thinking I’d use it one day,” she says.
During her teenage years, Crain taught herself how to play guitar and began writing songs before embarking on a lifestyle on the road as a singer-songwriter, performer, and recording artist as she entered adulthood. Over the last seventeen years, she’s released seven albums and a bevy of EPs, singles, and collaborations, while evading any sense of hard stylistic classification. “Honestly, I don’t know that I have a lot of understanding of genre,” she explains. “I write the songs and then I think about what will serve them best.”
When she was in the early stages of writing her recently released seventh album, Gumshoe, Crain watched American film director John Huston’s storied 1941 mystery thriller, The Maltese Falcon. Afterwards, when she was scribbling down some ideas, she found herself returning to Humphrey Bogart’s portrayal of Sam Spade. “He’s the quintessential, emotionally detached private investigator,” she says. “I can see a lot of that personality in myself.”
From there, Crain felt compelled to write a song about two people with that disposition falling in love. “I immediately thought, maybe this is where I finally get to use gumshoe,” she says. “It became a song about the mystery of trying to solve interpersonal relationships.” Rendered through a dreamy concoction of guitar, percussion, strings, eerie sound design, and her yearning tones, that fact-meets-fiction scenario became the titular track on Crain’s new album.
From using the dragonfly as a metaphor for flexibility and resilience (“Dragonfly”) to exploring her relationship with the natural world (“B-Attitudes”) and revisiting memories that still haunt her, Gumshoe reveals itself as a mercurial blend of alt-country, Americana, breezy psychedelic rock, and close, bedsit folk. It’s one of those records that feels perfectly designed for the introspection of late-night drives, solo walks, or wherever else you find your moments of reflection.
Co-produced with Brine Webb and Taylor Johnson at Lunar Manor Recording Studio in Oklahoma City, the album documents a period of profound transformation within Crain’s personal life and how she relates to those closest to her. In late April, BGS spoke with Samantha Crain about all of the above and more.
How are you doing?
Samantha Crain: Good, yeah. The town I live in has a big free music festival going on right now. It’s always interesting maneuvering your way around town when it’s happening. I’ve spent my morning trying to get things done. This happens every year. I should really know better by now.
To paraphrase the late, great Sharon Jones, some of us have to learn the hard way.
Yeah. That’s probably a good example of most things in my life.
Do you have a philosophical stance that underpins what you do as a songwriter?
I don’t think of what I do as a songwriter as being separate from how I live my life. I’ve spent so much of my life being a lone wolf, very hyper-independent. Lately, I’ve started to explore the ideas of vulnerability and reciprocity within my personal relationships with my friends and family members. I’m trying to embody that there is no “is” and we can change by the minute.
In my ancestor’s language, the Choctaw language, there are no words for “is” or “are.” That speaks to their value. You can’t ever describe anything with certainty. You can only pair something with descriptors that describe it as it appears in a moment. Living in a less defined way feels more mentally and spiritually sustainable. It’s also more sustainable for me as an artist to embody that flexibility and impermanence.
At this point, you’ve been a musician for over half your life, right?
Yeah. Honestly, I have a pretty poor memory of growing up. I’ve got a bad memory in general. I don’t remember much about my life apart from what I’m doing currently.
Lately, I’ve been thinking a bit more about the relationship between someone’s lifestyle and the music they make.
Sometimes I’m very aware that even if I didn’t have this desire and ability to write songs and make records, I’d probably still be living pretty close to how I am now. I have this very deep curiosity in me to experience as much of life as possible while I’m still on this mortal coil. I don’t know that everybody has that same curiosity or desire, and that’s completely fine. I just think I’m lucky to have an outlet and an instigator to justify how I go about living through music and songwriting.
When you think about making Gumshoe, what are some of the first experiences that come to mind?
The first memory I have from this album is having to set an alarm really early in the morning, so I could have quiet time alone and try to be a lightning rod for whatever was awaiting me. I did that every morning for three or four months to make sure I could get the active writing part in. I remember sitting at the kitchen table in the wee hours of the morning with my iPad and my guitar, trying to make demos and get these songs out.
At the same time, I was working forty hours a week at another job and dealing with all these stressful things that kept happening. I’m still slightly surprised that I was even able to make this album, because over the last two or three years of my life, I’ve had a lot of really difficult things going on. I’ve been dealing with health, interpersonal relationships and family stuff. Amidst all that, I had to find a way to answer the call of active writing time, which felt impossible.
I always get fairly offended whenever it’s been a year or two between records and people want to talk about how long it’s been since I’ve had a record. It’s like, “Excuse me, I’ve just been living my life.” I don’t know what to tell you. It hasn’t felt that long to me. I’ve felt like everything is moving right on time.
There can be a level of cross-cultural confusion around what time even means.
Western societies run on capitalism’s watch. What good are you to those societies if you’re not producing something? It’s just not a value I have in my life, so I find it hard to match that energy.
I like that you made the distinction around active writing time earlier. You’ve got to have space for yourself as well. You can’t give everything away.
Not only can you not give everything away, but you can’t constantly be in bloom. Flowers are not constantly in bloom; there’s a good reason for that. There’s energy that has to be sustained through the seasons of life. If you can’t close up and protect that periodically, you’re never going to make anything for anyone else or yourself.
Can you talk a bit more about what you were exploring across the album?
The songs I was writing were me trying to wrap my head around what it means to be in really close relationships with people. This was something I hadn’t really let myself do before. I thought it would be really strange if I wrote all these songs about how I’m trying to get better at connecting, or allowing myself to be vulnerable with other people, and then I went and made it how I usually make records – which is a lot of single tracking, or people that are isolated in their own booths. That led us to all recording together in one big live room. That also led me to bring co-producers in, rather than being the main driver of all the ideas. It was really important for me to have the experience of being able to lean on other people. I just felt like I needed to match what was going on with me personally with the recording process as well.
After listening to the album and talking to you, it sounds like you’ve had a heavy few years.
Nobody can tell you about these experiences ahead of time. There are things you have to live through to understand. You can’t tell an eighteen-year-old that their sense of invincibility is an illusion. You can’t talk someone into having that knowledge. It’s just something they have to live long enough to understand.
Imagine how paralyzing it would be to understand these things at a young age?
I think if I’d had a full idea of what this life path – being a singer-songwriter and musician – would look like at the age I started, I don’t know if I would have done it. Now, I don’t regret any of it. I still wake up every day and choose to keep doing this because I love it, but I think the naivety, greenness, and blind confidence of younger people is a massive help in pushing us off in any sort of direction at all.
What do you think have been the significant turning points in your journey through all of this?
There’s an experience I’ve had that happened many times over the last twenty years. As an artist, you get to a point where you have a set of people helping you: labels, booking agents, managers, etc. Inevitably, people end up moving in a different direction. Every time somebody like that has to leave my circle, I feel like I’m being abandoned in some way. What has always somehow happened afterwards is that I’ve always been able to link up with someone else who helps me keep carrying on.
I am forever in awe of that pattern of feeling that I am in the right place, doing the right thing. I don’t just mean this with business people. I really mean this in life as well. A lot of times, the people who end up helping me in my journey as a songwriter and a musician also play a huge part in my life as friends, mentors or things like that. It really gives me a sense of comfort and trust in myself. If you’ve run out of gas and you’re on the side of the interstate with your thumb out, someone is going to come and help you quicker if you have a smile on your face and a positive attitude about it all.
Some people evoke the idea that you shouldn’t go into business without already having an exit strategy in place. Obviously, not many of them are musicians.
I never have an exit strategy. I’m just forced into the next thing.
It’s worth noting that in recent years you’ve been working on film and television soundtrack projects, such as scoring for Fancy Dance and Winding Path.
When you’re working in film and television, the amount of collaboration you have to do is so intense. It’s beyond any level of collaboration I’ve ever done with my own records. A big portion of making my records occurs in solitude. When you’re scoring films, the number of people you have to pass ideas through, or get the OK from, is massive.
Also, all the films I’ve scored for are about community and family in a way. They’re about connection and reciprocity. So far, they haven’t been about the lone wolf character, which I find good. If my first dip into scoring films had been for a detached, lone wolf character nobody understands, I think I could have gotten a bit too emo for my own good. So, I think it’s good that the projects I’ve been brought into so far have been more about connection.
What does it mean to come from Oklahoma at this point in your journey?
It is to exist somewhere you both can’t live without and can’t wait to return to. At the same time, you want to get as far away from it as possible. That dichotomy is the thing that got me on the road as a young person. I don’t want to only understand this one existence, but it’s also one of the only places where I feel like I make sense. If I were going to grow out of the ground somewhere, this is the only place I could envision myself sprouting out of. Unfortunately, being here reminds me of how hard it has become to be in nature. When I say, be in nature, I don’t mean trying to connect with something outside of myself. I feel like I’m a part of the planet’s ecosystem.
Growing up, I spent a lot of time in southeastern Oklahoma, in the Kayami Street River Valley with my cousins. Even as kids, we were living in a respectful communion. We knew if you saw a diamondback rattlesnake, you don’t mess with that rattlesnake. We were taught to walk softly through the forest and disrupt as little as possible, because we were passing through. I’m still in those same physical spaces, but as I’ve gotten older, knowing I’m becoming more and more disconnected from the natural world feels really strange. I haven’t thought about this much, but maybe this is why I feel this pull to remain here. Maybe it is because I haven’t resolved that, or gotten back to a place that feels right in that aspect of my life.
It sounds like there’s a bigger set of questions at work here. I will say this, though: there’s not much that’s more grounding than walking barefoot on the grass or dirt.
It is. I do it every weekend when I do Tai Chi at the park across from my house.
You Gotta Hear This! It’s another excellent roundup of track and video premieres plus new music arriving on digital “store shelves” today. There’s bluegrass, folk, Americana, and more.
Kicking us off, Kentucky’s Bibelhauser Brothers enlist their hero and friend Sam Bush on their rendition of “One Tin Soldier,” from their upcoming album, Down The Road. As an added bonus, Aaron Bibelhauser and Sam Bush had a nearly hour-long chat about the track, too – you can find and watch that video below. Also in a bluegrass space, Irish ‘grasser Danny Burns offers his cover of “Brother Wind,” a modern classic written by Tim O’Brien. Dan Tyminski joins Burns on the track, which does O’Brien and Darrell Scott’s versions of the song justice, for sure.
Alt- and indie-folk outfit JOSEPH return with new music, bringing us a video for their new track, “Bye and Bye,” borrowing a classic and often ecclesiastical line to explore growth, loss, and the drawn out transformations life brings each of us – while tipping their hat to a bar by the same name. You can also hear Appalachian mountain music duo the Wildmans perform “Autumn 1941,” a song co-written by Berklee’s Mark Simos and Roger Brown that touches on the harrowing reality of eugenics in the mountains of the Southeast.
East Nashville’s favorite band of lovable bluegrass delinquents, East Nash Grass, released a new single earlier this week, too! Don’t miss the excellent and lovely “Followin’ You,” written by ENG guitarist James Kee and new Travelin’ McCourys fiddler Christian Ward especially for Maddie Denton to sing. Plus, Nick Dumas is readying a bluegrass album, offering our readers a peek at a new video for “Where Have You Been,” a song about how sometimes folks you love “go away” without actually leaving.
There’s still more fantastic roots music, though! Award-winning fiddling phenoms Deanie Richardson and Kimber Ludiker are teaming up on a twin-fiddle album coming soon from Mountain Home Music Company; you can hear “Cacklin’ Hen,” the first offering from that project, below. And, wrapping us up this week, Jessica Willis Fisher went into the studio with Bryan Sutton playing guitar and mandolin to record the heartfelt and touching, “Seeds,” a country/Americana flavored track about interrupting generational cycles of pain and trauma and refusing to reap the seeds someone else may have sown in your heart and mind.
It’s quite the collection of music, and, as we say every week: You Gotta Hear This!
Bibelhauser Brothers, “One Tin Soldier” (Featuring Sam Bush)
Artist:Bibelhauser Brothers Hometown: Louisville, Kentucky Song: “One Tin Soldier” featuring Sam Bush Album:Down The Road Release Date: May 15, 2025 (single) Label: Common Loon Records
In Their Words: “Our latest collaborative effort, ‘One Tin Soldier,’ marks the first studio version of the familiar song that features Sam Bush singing and playing mandolin. The Father of Newgrass jumped right in as an honorary Bibelhauser Brother on this fourth single from our forthcoming album, Down The Road, slated for release this October. (I actually had a candid, nearly hour-long conversation with Sam on video to chat about the track – check that out here.) With his help, we’ve made an honest attempt to frame this song as a missing link in ‘newgrass’ history, connecting the dots between some larger-than-life personalities quintessential to the evolution of the bluegrass world. Much like many of our heroes, we’d like to keep the traditional torch burning bright, while igniting our own flame, fusing elements of blues, country-rock, and soul with our primordial bluegrass sensibilities.” – Aaron Bibelhauser
Track Credits: Sam Bush – Mandolin, vocal Adam Bibelhauser – Vocal, bass Aaron Bibelhauser – Vocal, guitar Steve Cooley – Banjo Jeff Guernsey – Fiddle
Danny Burns, “Brother Wind” (Featuring Dan Tyminski)
Artist:Danny Burns Hometown: Donegal, Ireland Song: “Brother Wind” featuring Dan Tyminski Album:Southern Sky Release Date: May 16, 2025 (single); August 22, 2025 (album) Label: Bonfire Recording Co.
In Their Words: “I first discovered ‘Brother Wind’ on the Transatlantic Sessions on BBC many moons ago. I’ve had the great pleasure of knowing Tim O’Brien and working with him — he was one of my very first collaborators in Nashville when we cut a few songs at John Prine and Ferg’s Butcher Shoppe [studio]. I asked him about ‘Brother Wind’ and he said, ‘Yeah, you should cut it.’ So, we did — tried to stay true to his original version while adding something new. Having Dan T. come in and sing on it brought it to another level of cool.” – Danny Burns
Track Credits: Danny Burns – Vocals, guitars Dan Tyminski – Vocals Ethan Burkhardt – Upright bass Billy Contreras – Fiddle Matt Menefee – Banjo, mandolin Cody Kilby – Guitars Jerry Roe – Drums
Video Credit: Shot by Ryan Kay at the Station Inn, Nashville, Tennessee.
Nick Dumas, “Where Have You Been”
Artist:Nick Dumas Hometown: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Song: “Where Have You Been” Album:Where Have You Been Release Date: May 16, 2025 Label: Skyline Records
In Their Words: “Everyone has been in that place – where someone close to you just isn’t there like they used to be, even if they haven’t gone anywhere. This song really struck me because of how real and universal that feeling is. And when Jim Van Cleve came in to mix it, he completely brought out the emotional tension in a way that blew me away. There’s this haunting, almost cinematic atmosphere that he created in the mix – it’s ominous, raw, and it elevates the story in a way that made me hear the song differently. It gave the whole track this weight, like you’re walking through fog trying to find someone.” – Nick Dumas
Artist:East Nash Grass Hometown: Madison, Tennessee Song: “Followin’ You” Album:All God’s Children Release Date: May 13, 2025 (single); August 22, 2025 (album) Label: Mountain Fever
In Their Words: “East Nash Grass was touring Ireland the first time I heard the demo recording of ‘Followin’ You,’ which I was told that our guitar player, James Kee, and our good songwriting pal and fiddler, Christian Ward, had written for me to sing on our upcoming record, All God’s Children. We were on the way to our next gig, driving through scenery too incredible to describe, and I was enchanted by an iPhone recording of Christian playing the guitar and singing this new song. The chorus is simple: following you. That’s all. And right there, in the beauty of simplicity, I understood that we had all been brought together to make this music to share, not because someone told us to or because of any hidden agenda; but purely because there was no other option for us.” – Maddie Denton
Track Credits: Harry Clark – Mandolin James Kee – Guitar Jeff Partin – Bass Maddie Denton – Fiddle Cory Walker – Banjo Gaven Largent – Dobro
JOSEPH, “Bye and Bye”
Artist:JOSEPH Hometown: Portland, Oregon Song: “Bye and Bye” Release Date: May 16, 2025 Label: Nettwerk Music Group
In Their Words: “This song is about being a woman in her late thirties with none of the results she expected from the plans she made – no husband, no house, no kids, no religion. The start of the song came one night when I was getting dinner with my then-girlfriend Talia at a bar called the Bye and Bye on Alberta St. in Portland. Our sister Allie had just quit the band, I was about a year past my divorce, I had a hunch the relationship I was in couldn’t keep going in its current form. I told Talia, ‘I feel like, in a way, I just died. Like everything I am – every bit of identity I’ve had – is over.’ I started crying in the way that isn’t tidy so I ran to the bathroom and let the tears rip. It had been a rough few days and as I sat on the toilet lid bawling I opened my notes app and typed ‘Crying in the bathroom of the Bye and Bye/ Saturday’s mascara in my eye/ it’s Tuesday.’” — Natalie Closner
Artist:Deanie Richardson & Kimber Ludiker Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee; Silver Spring, Maryland Song: “Cacklin’ Hen” Release Date: May 16, 2025 Label: Mountain Home Music Company
In Their Words: “I’ve been a Kimber Ludiker fan for many, many years now since I heard her play at the Grand Master’s Fiddler contest. I was a judge that year and she completely blew me away. I think Kimber is one of the most tasteful, versatile fiddlers that we have in bluegrass music today and the work she’s done with Della Mae speaks volumes for her integrity and her talent. Kimber and I have been talking about doing a twin fiddle record for at least three years now and we’re so glad that we found a home and so glad that we found a place to record this record. Mountain Home has been so generous and good to me and allowed Kimber and I the space to come record this twin fiddle record. And we took it back-old school — just twin fiddles through the whole thing and we’re super excited for you guys to hear some fun music.” – Deanie Richardson
“Deanie Richardson has long been one of my favorite fiddlers and has always been my favorite to play with. We’ve been dreaming about a twin fiddle record for years and Mountain Home is the perfect label to share our excitement and vision. With our bands Della Mae and Sister Sadie, we’ve both had a long commitment to showcase and create a platform for women in this music, and we’re excited to add our fiddling to the canon of tunes in our music. I especially hope young girls will be excited to have more and more recordings of instrumentals played by women to inspire their learning.” – Kimber Ludiker
Artist:The Wildmans Hometown: Floyd, Virginia Song: “Autumn 1941” Album:Longtime Friend Release Date: July 11, 2025 Label: New West Records
In Their Words: “‘Autumn 1941’ is a song Roger Brown, former Berklee College of Music President, co-wrote with Berklee songwriting professor Mark Simos. Mark has written for Alison Krauss, the Infamous Stringdusters, and Del McCoury. Del recently released the other song in this series titled ‘Working for the WPA.’ The ‘Autumn 1941’ story hails from Roger’s North Carolina Appalachian roots, it was passed down through his family and while some of the specifics remain unknown, different versions of this story of eugenics prove to be true across Appalachian regions and more largely other minorities throughout American early-mid 20th century history. Stories of this same movement took place in Virginia and communities like Floyd, our hometown. Once we got into the studio with this song, it just flowed and out of it came a haunting authenticity we hadn’t yet discovered in our music.” – The Wildmans
Jessica Willis Fisher, “Seeds”
Artist:Jessica Willis Fisher Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee Song: “Seeds” Album:Blooming Release Date: May 16, 2025 Label: Bard Craft Records
In Their Words: “When we’re young, much of our life is shaped in ways we can’t control. Seeds are planted in our life and when we grow up, we can be left reaping the effects of toxic generational patterns. A big part of my life the last few years has been weeding out so many beliefs and habits that, if left to continue to grow, would choke me to death in many ways. Some days are harder than others and I still have doubts that rise up about which way to go in life, how to best move forward, how to heal from the abuse I experienced when I was younger.
“That vulnerability and honesty felt important to include on this record which centers around healing and growth.” – Jessica Willis Fisher
One of my most consistent sources of inspiration, when it comes to writing and recording my own songs, is the music of my friends and contemporaries. JVC is an album made amongst friends and the songs were written, if not with their direct help, by the grace of a friend’s emotional support or a colleague’s awe-inspiring set during a time of my life that otherwise felt lonely and lifeless.
In the spirit of that, here’s my Mixtape of 12 songs from contemporary inspirations of mine, whether I know them well or not at all, many of them local to the Nashville scene. – Jack Van Cleaf
“Afterlife” – Joelton Mayfield
This playlist is in no particular order, except maybe when it comes to this song. “Afterlife” was my most-streamed song last year, and Joelton Mayfield is one of the few artists I’ve considered dropping everything for and driving eight hours to catch a set (particularly when he opened for Robert Earl Keen in Winston-Salem). I’m lucky to be close enough in his orbit to catch most of his shows in Nashville, and they never cease to amaze me. If I want my faith in the importance of music restored, I go see a Joelton Mayfield show.
“Laughing Out Loud” – Ethansroom
I’ll never forget when my best friend sent me this song he just wrote. I was holed up in a motel next to my restaurant job in Carlsbad, California, while my family was all down with COVID. He sent me this as a voice memo and I listened to it as I was getting ready for bed; then I listened to it again. It gripped me from the get-go and it still amazes me. I have the privilege of playing nearly every show and recorded track I’ve ever put out alongside Ethan Fortenberry. His musical prowess is only rivaled by his capacity for love, as evidenced by his latest record. This song will always be one of my favorites.
“Lying Lately” – Emma Ogier
Emma Ogier is opening on tour for us this May and it is no exaggeration to say I feel lucky to see her in venues this size while it’s still possible. Emma’s brother, Aidan, also an extremely talented player and writer, is a good friend and introduced me to her music when he invited me to their show in San Diego, when I was living there. Anyone who has seen Emma live knows how powerful her performances are. Songs like this, and the trove of unreleased music I’ve heard her play, keep me inspired and constantly on the edge of my seat for the next line she delivers.
“Groundhog Day” – Nic Fair
I saw Nic play a Halloween set at the East Room just over a year ago and I’ve been itching to see another show of his since. His vocal runs will stun you first, but directly after that you’ll be immersed in his lyrical world of unexpected images and keen metaphors as exhibited in “Groundhog Day,” one of my personal favorites that I remember clearly from that Halloween show.
“Tomatoes” – Briston Maroney
Briston Maroney has just come out with an amazing new album. I was lucky enough to get the sneaky link and I’ve listened to it front-to-back over and over again for the past few weeks. To me, JIMMY seems like a perfect balance between where Briston’s been and where he’s going. I hear familiar traces of songs like the ones on “Carnival” while enjoying something totally brand new: like the narrative moment in this song when Briston talks about “picking out his grave at the graveyard” – it’s fresh and I’m addicted to it. I’ve felt very fortunate to have lots of meaningful conversations with Briston about life and art over the years; he continues to inspire me as a friend and from a distance, as an outside observer of his brilliant work.
“co-pilot” – Val Hoyt
I pursued Jack Schneider, guitar virtuoso and tape enthusiast local to East Nashville, to record my live acoustic album because of his work on Val Hoyt’s Muscle Spasms. This record is full of beautiful songs, masterfully written and recorded. Val’s guitar performances coupled with his unique melodic and lyrical approach to songwriting stops me in my tracks. This song has me singing along in my car every time it finds its way, inevitably, to my monthly playlists. It’s the lyrics and Val’s vocal performance that get me, but Jack Schneider’s guitar solo being possibly my favorite acoustic guitar solo I’ve ever heard doesn’t hurt, either.
“Camcorder (recovered)” – Macho Planet
It’s no secret to most of the indie singer/songwriter scene in Nashville, but Macho Planet’s ‘Still, You Don’t Joke About It’ is near flawless. It’s an album I come back to again and again and hold in the highest regard as a blueprint for a successfully crafted full-length record. I find a new gem every time. “Camcorder” could be considered the hit off the record, boasting the most streams. It was my gateway song into Austin’s music, and it functions as a great introduction to an equally magnetic catalogue of songs that will remain special to you long after the first listen.
“Ovid” – Annie DiRusso
I had been bumping the singles to Annie DiRusso’s debut album, Super Pedestrian, for months leading up to its release; it was no surprise to press play on her record on release day and be greeted by this rock masterpiece. The opening line draws me right in (still have no idea what it’s about) and the very relatable reprise keeps coming back again and again every time I hop in the car. It’s one of those lyrics that leaves me surprised I haven’t heard it before, because it feels timeless: “Always looking for something to change my life/ Never wanna hear nothing to change my mind.”
“Heaven Is” – Melanie MacLaren
Melanie does an incredible job of writing Americana songs that carry the torch of greats like Gillian Welch while bringing something totally new, fresh, and honest to the table. Her lyrics are a well-balanced mix of captivating imagery and straightforward truth telling. “Heaven Is” is an awesome example of her ability to make a listener enjoy a song that forces them to face their own mortality.
“high achiever” — Charli Adams
Charli sang on one of the songs on my record, JVC. She lent her voice to the bridge of the second song, “Piñata.” I asked her to do this because Charli’s voice is one of my favorites in the singer-songwriter world. It’s completely unique to her, incomparable to anyone else I can think of. On top of this, Charli’s long been an inspiration to me in her songwriting. Her EP, nothing to be scared of, is a vulnerable look at childhood and self-growth that spares not difficult topic. “high achiever” is one of my slow-burning favorites.
“I Like to Worship the Devil” – Dan Spencer
This man is a master of writing lyrics that engage a sense of humor while still remaining totally sincere and heart-wrenching. Some of the best theological lyrics I’ve heard, put forward so casually, come from Dan Spencer’s songs. This one gets me singing along every time. (Dan’s voice is probably the only one that can get me to sing, full-heartedly at the top of my lungs, “Pissed my pants and shit the bed.”)
“Neighbors” – Future Crib
I was fortunate enough to see Future Crib at their album release show at The Blue Room in Nashville, just a couple weeks before I played mine there. I don’t hesitate to say that they may be the best band we have today. The love amongst the members and in the music they make is so palpable that it’s hard not to feel. Every time I see a show of theirs I feel I’m a part of something important. The performance of this one at their release show, and the energy in the crowd, was particularly memorable.
“If the world is my oyster I’ve been poking at it with a plastic fork,” sings Olive Klug on “Taking Punches from the Breeze,” the first track off their second album, Lost Dog, which released April 25. Klug writes with a mesmerizing combination of levity and intensity about a slightly off-kilter world. Through closeups on minute, funny, and revealing moments in life, they illustrate how schisms can be beautiful, too, if you see them right.
Though often joyful and whimsical, Lost Dog isn’t always rosy. On it, Klug works through immense life and perspective shifts. Their takes on breakups – “The butterflies have all got broken wings” (“Cold War”) – and depression – “When my friend hangs up / and my mind turns gray” (“Opposite Action”) – are refreshing not for their angst but for their realism. But nowhere is their combination of playful, revealing storytelling more evident than on “Train of Thought,” their love letter to their neurodivergent brain.
There’s a train in the sky in the middle of my mind and it’s flying off a one-way track And they try to button up my suit and tie in an attempt to hold me back But I’m this strange old conductor wearing pearls and a backwards baseball cap…
Klug grew up in Oregon and studied psychology in college, intending to work towards a master’s degree and career in social work. Not long after graduation, the COVID-19 pandemic hit and they lost their job. Like so many others, Klug ended up at home, on TikTok. There, music took off fast, and their song “Raining in June” scored them an audience. From there, life hit warp speed – a record deal, a move, a music career, a new relationship – and then it fell apart.
Now older and recalibrating, they’re releasing their second album, Lost Dog (their Signature Sounds debut), about aging with a neurodivergent brain, leaning into their differences, and coming to terms with not having everything figured out.
Your first album, Don’t You Dare Make Me Jaded, came out in 2023 and now we’re talking about your new album, Lost Dog. You’ve lived a lot of life between recording the two albums and you’re clearly writing from a different place this time around. What’s changed for you between those two projects?
Olive Klug: I was 23, 24 when I really started to pursue music as a career. I was not particularly young, but I was kind of naive in the music industry world. I blew up pretty quickly after giving it a go and then moved to LA and signed a record deal. When I look back, I had a lot of hubris, I was very self involved. I was living in LA. It was very exciting. I thought “I’ve made it.” I was making all my money off of music. [But] I was dropped from that record label directly after the release of that album, Don’t You Dare Make Me Jaded, which I think now is kind of like funny and ironic and is hilarious.
That’s funny, “Damn, I said don’t.”
So I was dropped from that label and I also went through a breakup. I had these two years of riding this crazy high and then everything came tumbling down at the same moment. I realized that that whole era of my life was a little bit gilded; that relationship wasn’t right for me, that record label wasn’t right for me. But I looked like I had it together on the outside.
All of that made me dig pretty deep into what I wanted out of my life. It was a moment of soul searching and a moment of having to believe in myself, understand who I was, and motivate myself to keep going in music, because there was nobody around me believing in me anymore.
The past two years have been this wild journey of figuring out what I want, figuring out who I am, and maturing and leaving that hubris behind – and [leaving] that life behind. Since that happened, I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, I recorded a bunch of songs, I wrote a bunch of songs. I bought a van. I now live in my van, but I still don’t really have things totally figured out. I’m still lost at times. I think that’s the reality for a lot of people my age.
I’m in my late 20s now and I think that this album is really about the moment that I woke up. I was 27 and things were less figured out than they were when I was 24. That’s where the Lost Dog title comes from, feeling like I am getting older yet I am still feeling like a lost dog, wandering around the country.
There is so much pressure in this world to have it figured out or to be one specific way, and it feels like you’re pushing back on that and saying you don’t have to do that if it’s not right for you.
I’m not really trying to make a statement. My first album, I tried to tie all of my songs up in this neat little bow to be like, “Here is the message that I want to send with this song.” This next album is much more unfiltered. It’s just what came out of me. This is my experience. I’m not trying to reassure anybody with these songs.
You’ve said that this album is about aging as a neurodivergent free spirit. Particularly talking about “Train of Thought,” where you’re leaning into the chaos you feel inside your brain sometimes, instead of trying to hide it. What about that experience felt like what you needed to write about on this album?
I spent my adolescence trying hard to fit in. I had my little secret moments at home. But at school and in my regular life, I got good grades. I dressed up in a way that I thought would be rewarded [at] school. I still was very [much] conforming to my gender, and I tried really hard to be “normal.” I was scared of what would happen to me socially if I did not try to fit in, even though there was this part of me that really wanted to be different.
It wasn’t until my adulthood that I felt the freedom to experiment more with my identity and experiment more with rejecting those norms. I think that’s totally the opposite of what a lot of people experience. A lot of people, when they’re a teenager, they rebel and they dress really crazy and they try to be as weird and challenge the norms as much as possible. I didn’t start doing that until maybe even slightly after college. Since then, it’s been a deep spiral down into allowing myself the freedom to really be myself.
I didn’t understand that I was neurodivergent. I didn’t understand that my brain worked a little differently than other people. Now I’m like, “Well, what do I have to lose? I’m just going to be totally myself.” Having this community of people who are my listeners and fans who really like that about me, and who really celebrate that about me, has been really healing. I think that a lot of artists and writers are neurodivergent in some way and the superpower of it is that’s what allows us to write the way that we do. That’s what [“Train of Thought”] is about, allowing myself to stop trying to put myself in a box and let the chaos of my mind roam totally free.
I’m curious about “Taking Punches from the Breeze,” which is you letting yourself wander in a different way. There are these great lines in there like, “…If the world’s my oyster I’ve been poking at it with a plastic fork.” I don’t think anybody has ever presented that concept before in that way.
I wrote that one living in an apartment in LA by myself. And I love living alone. It’s like the best for my creative flow. But I was really sad. It was in the aftermath of that breakup and being dropped from the record label where I wrote these songs. “Taking Punches From the Breeze” was one of the first ones I wrote. That and “Cold War” were the beginning of this Lost Dog era, so to speak. I got really high one night, to be so honest with you. I was in my apartment and I had just gone on– you know when you have your first date after a breakup? I was on this first date after a breakup. I feel like I am pretty good at asking other people questions and I was asking this person all these questions. Then they would turn around and ask me those questions and I’d be like, “God, I don’t know what I’m doing right now.”
When I’m doing shows, I’m like, “Oh, I’m a Gemini. That’s why this album is the way it is.” I think it’s true, it’s about holding a lot of dualities. A constant disorientation is what I’ve really felt for the past two years. But there’s a lot of fun and joy and possibility in that constant disorientation. It can be hard at the same time.
The other side of the duality, or another part of the duality, is “Opposite Action,” where you’re really pretty down in the middle of the album. Tell me about writing that song.
That was also in that time. I think it was late summer, I was in my apartment in LA feeling weird. I was a psychology major, and I learned about DBT [Dialectical Behavioral Therapy]. That song borrows from a DBT concept called opposite action. I remember having questions about it when I learned about it. But it’s basically the concept that you do the opposite of what your instincts are telling you to do: If you are feeling particularly depressed, you’re supposed to take a deep breath and try to do the opposite. So if you wake up and you want to lay in bed all day and do nothing, you’re supposed to force yourself to go out and be social, go to the park, go to the beach.
I was like, “I’m gonna go to the beach, even if it’s by myself. I’m gonna try to plant things in my backyard.” It was all these things that I was trying to do to make myself feel better, but then feeling really frustrated, because I was taking good care of myself and I still felt bad.
How the song really started was, as a touring musician, so many of the things that people tell you to do to establish some sort of stability and happiness are just impossible to do. Growing plants is something that I would love to be able to do. I can’t do that, because I’m not at my house most of the time. I came back from a trip or a show or something and I had tried to grow jalapeños and tomatoes in my little back patio area. They had died.
That to me is one of the things that really sticks out about your music. You have this way of dialing in on these minute observations. Is that how your brain works all the time? Is that how you’re seeing the world?
I don’t know, maybe. I don’t know how people see the world differently or not. But my writing does feel sort of matter of fact to me oftentimes. So maybe that is how I see the world.
It’s matter of fact, but it’s really joyful.
I think a lot of Lost Dog is coping with those decisions I can’t really take back. If I had gone down that traditional path, if I had gone to grad school, become a therapist, I would have health insurance right now, I would have job security right now. There would be a lot of things that I would have right now that I lack in my life. It is scary to be even a semi-successful musician. I have no certainty. It’s really, really hard to feel any sense of stability or certainty. And to not have any health insurance and to not have any benefits, and all of that stuff, it can be really scary. I wish that small working artists had that. It makes me feel like I’m never going to be able to really have a family, if I go keep going at this rate, I am never going to be able to go to the dentist.
That’s the thing that I really wish more people understood. You’re looking at this artist on stage every night and you relate to their music, they’re still on the road maybe 200 days a year. They don’t have that personal life stability. They don’t have that health insurance often. Even if you think they’re well known, the margins are so crummy and what it takes is so intense.
But if I had not taken this risk, I would always wonder what would have happened. I’m really glad I took the risk. It’s such an incredible payoff. One thing that I can always feel when I’m on stage every night is I have the most fulfilling career ever. That is something that I will never question.
People are like, “I want to have a job that has meaning and that feels aligned with what I’m good at and who I am.” Every night I go on stage, I’m getting paid to do the thing that I feel like I am meant to be doing and that is really worth it. Maybe one day that will include some stability.
We’re figuring it out, one day at a time. Sometimes life can go by so fast, one can forget to savor the moment.
These songs keep us present and feeling alive. Our new album, Growing Pains, talks about the highs and lows of life and the emotions that come along with balancing your career and mental health. This collection of songs is what we’re currently listening to as it’s all happening. – Trousdale
“There’s A Rhythm” – Bon Iver
“Can I really still complain” just hits me so hard. The chord progression, the tempo, the production– everything about this song gets me into a meditative zone of presence and reflection. – Georgia Greene
“Sapling” – Foy Vance
“I wished I could go back in time, but all I could do was apologize. Right then, your eyes were healing…” I mean come on. – GG
“Molly I’m Coming Around” – Annika Bennett
This song just feels like a warm blanket of truth – being honest with yourself and others. – GG
“Don’t Stop” – Fleetwood Mac
This one was definitely a sonic inspiration for the album. It has such a positive vibe and message and helps remind us that there’s always another day to try again. – GG, Quinn D’Andrea, Lauren Jones
“Green Light” – Darlingside
This song just feels like a meditation, the chord progression feels like it’s existed forever, and the lyrics feel like they could be spoken as a prayer. Could listen to this song on loop forever. – QD
“Let’s Be Still” – The Head And The Heart
I need a constant reminder to move slower. This song is perfect for that. – LJ
“My Love For You Is A Straight Line” – Ken Yates
This song feels like coming home to myself. – LJ
“Never Been Better” – Ben Abraham
Coming from an artist who also understands the grind of this life we’ve chosen, I feel like Ben puts this feeling perfectly. Sometimes when we’re overwhelmed it’s just helpful to hear that exact feeling validated and put into words. – QD
“Look Up” – Joy Oladokun
I love this song when I need a reminder to zoom out. We can get so caught up in the everyday stress, and the words of this song coupled with the arrangement is the perfect opportunity to remember that this life is so much more than that. – QD
“You Make Me Feel Like Dancing” – Leo Sayer
Listen to this song for an immediate dose of serotonin. – LJ
Photo Credit: Alex Lang
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