Artist:Noah Guthrie Hometown: Greenville, South Carolina Latest Album:Blue Wall
What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?
It’s hard for me to pinpoint the exact moment. I have been around music in one way or another all my life. I grew up listening to my dad and stepmom sing in studios and my older brother Ian is a drummer and recording engineer. I guess one of the first times I felt like I wanted music to be more than a hobby was when a band that I was in as a teenager played our first show. We had this blues/funk band called Say When and it was me and my brother and our two best friends, Zach and Alex.
We had a show at this place called the Handlebar in Greenville, South Carolina. It’s no longer around but it was popular back then and that night we were playing a Battle of the Bands contest. (This was absolutely a pay-to-play type of scenario but we got to play for a couple of hundred people so we didn’t care.) I was the frontman of this group and I think I realized then that being on stage performing for people was a feeling that I couldn’t get anywhere else. It was a confidence that I didn’t have in my normal day-to-day. I was a pretty shy teen and never quite felt like I could fully express myself unless I was writing or on stage. I could connect with people from a stage in a meaningful way and I fell in love with that feeling. I have been in love with it ever since.
Which artist has influenced you the most…and how?
I think I hear Ray LaMontagne’s influence the most in my music. I have always been a huge fan of all of his work but in particular, I love his album, God Willin’ and the Creek Don’t Rise. That album found me when I was just starting to write music in high school and it really settled in deep. I am pretty sure that I got the CD stuck in my 2003 Kia Sportage and had absolutely no problem with that. Obviously, Ray has so much soul and texture in his voice that it’s immediately recognizable to anyone that hears it. For me though, it’s his words that really sell it. He has a way of writing elegant and poetic verses that somehow still feel grounded and relatable when you hear them. I think that when I started writing music and began searching for my own style, Ray’s music was a giant impact on me back then and still is today.
What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?
My favorite memory on stage has got to be when I sang with Willie Nelson. I remember getting a phone call from my agent in a hotel in Nashville. He asked, “Do you have any interest in opening three shows for Willie Nelson?” I said, “Why are you even asking? Absolutely!” Willie has always been a hero of mine and it was an honor to open a few shows and share my music with his incredible fan base. On the third night, I met Willie and he asked me to come sing the gospel with them at the end of the show. It really was incredible. We sang “Will the Circle Be Unbroken” and “I’ll Fly Away.” Sharing the stage with Willie Nelson and his entire band of legendary players gave me a feeling that I don’t think I will ever forget.
What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?
So far the best advice I have been given is to stay patient and stay true to yourself. I do believe that every artist has their own timeline and their own path. I think that with social media it can be hard to keep perspective and very easy to fall into a kind of comparison trap. You usually only get to see the good things that are happening to other artists, and not the years of grinding it can take to get to those good things. That is something I struggle with on a day-to-day basis if I’m being honest. I think that the best thing that anyone can do is to stay patient and focus on making art that honors who you are and what you believe in.
Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?
I’ve spent my whole life in a small town in Upstate South Carolina. Just a few minutes’ drive from the Blue Ridge Mountains. I spend a lot of time wandering trails and birdwatching in the woods here. I have always found that when I feel my most tired and burnt out, the hills, rivers, and lakes of this region always provide the refresher that I need.
The title track of my new album is called “Blue Wall.” Blue Wall is another name for the Blue Ridge Mountains so one could definitely say that growing up so close to that mountain range has had a very big impact on me and my music. I have always wanted to write a song about my home and the beautiful scenery that surrounds it. “Blue Wall” is my first successful attempt at doing that.
For the first time, we are so excited to bring to you the BGS Radio Hour in podcast form! Since 2017 the BGS Radio Hour has been a weekly recap of the wonderful music, new and old, that we’ve covered here on BGS. Check back in every Monday to kick your weeks off with the best of BGS via the BGS Radio Hour.
Highly awarded modern blues artist — and our current Artist of the Month — Shemekia Copeland brings us a new release, Uncivil War, offering us a number of topical songs with perspectives on gun violence, LGBTQ+ rights, and more.
Leyla McCalla (who you may know from folk supergroup Our Native Daughters) brings us a song from her new Smithsonian Folkways re-release, Vari-Colored Songs: a Tribute to Langston Hughes.
Madison Cunningham is back on BGS with a brand new EP, Wednesday, an interpretation of a handful of cover songs chosen by the California-based singer, songwriter, and guitarist.
Everyone’s favorite roots music brothers — that is, the Avett Brothers — are back with The Third Gleam, a follow up to the first and second Gleam EPs. Much like their earlier sounds, the new record is stripped down, with timely discussions of gun violence, mortality, and the human condition. Check out our conversation with Scott, Seth, and Bob Crawford.
Denver-based singer-songwriter Jeff Cramer brings us an edition of The Shed Sessions along with his band the Wooden Sound, and a wonderful tribute to the late, great John Prine.
Pop string band Mipso is just one of so many great North Carolina groups that we’re proud to feature this month in our Made in NC playlist for #NCMusicMonth!
Julian Taylor was the guest of honor on our most recent episode of Shout & Shine, a series that serves as a platform for Black, Brown, Indigenous, Asian, LGBTQ+, and disabled musicians, who are so often marginalized in genres to which they’ve constantly contributed.
Quintessential banjo legend Tony Trischka was featured this week with a new single from his 2021 release, Shall We Hope, that also features Irish singer Maura O’Connell.
Back in March, the Avett Brothers — Scott and Seth Avett, along with bassist Bob Crawford — were scheduled to leave their homes in North Carolina and head out West, where their longtime producer, Rick Rubin, was waiting at his studio in Malibu. They were in a prolific place at the top of the year, and eager to keep up the momentum. They had just released Closer Than Together, their tenth studio album, in October 2019, and had written and recorded The Third Gleam, the latest chapter in a series of acoustic EPs. They had also written a ton of new material — enough for another album, by Scott’s estimation — and were all set to move forward with it when the coronavirus hit. Everything, including their flights to California, ground to a halt.
The only thing that’s gone according to plan for the Avetts in 2020 is The Third Gleam, and it’s weirdly fitting — fateful, even — that it’s a homecoming in many ways. The eight-song EP was ushered into a tumultuous time they never saw coming, one that’s forcing everyone to stay put, slow down, and count their blessings more fervently than usual. It’s a return to the sparse acoustic arrangements that the Avetts perfected in their early releases before they teamed up with Rubin in 2009 for their mainstream breakthrough, I And Love And You, which brought them into the rock arena.
The Second Gleam came out in 2008 just before I And Love And You changed their lives and their sound, and though they’ve never strayed from their bluegrass and folk framework, they haven’t returned to the simplicity of Scott and Seth working through ideas with only their guitars and each other for company to this degree in over a decade. (Crawford does join them on The Third Gleam; he wasn’t brought in for the first two.)
The Third Gleam was written long before the world abruptly changed, but it touches on themes that bubbled up from the tension and strife that’s shaped recent moments of violence, unrest, uncertainty, despair, and the embers of resilience, hope, and the pursuit of social justice that smolder in spite of all of the above. Gun violence (“I Should’ve Spent the Day With My Family”), facing the unknown with grace (“Victory”), considering mortality (“Prison to Heaven”), and the deep joys and struggles of the human condition (“The Fire”) are all explored here, in soft tones, plaintive strumming, and the meditative plucking of Scott’s banjo.
Each song is striking in its approachable yet profound sincerity, and this less-is-more approach is one they found to be particularly effective in this fractured time. These issues were on their minds before the coronavirus upended life as we know it, but the Avett Brothers find themselves finding new meaning on The Third Gleam back where they started: at home, in North Carolina, trying to make sense of the world with little more than two voices and two guitars in sharp relief. For Scott, it’s simple: “The smallness of the Gleam — that’s where its power is.”
BGS: When I think of the first two Gleams, some of the saddest songs you’ve ever written come to mind, like “If It’s the Beaches,” but also gems that became fan favorites, like “Murder in the City.” How do The Gleam, the Second Gleam and The Third Gleam stand out to you? What sets them apart from the rest of your work?
Scott Avett: If there was a heart or soul or spirit to everything we do, [The Gleams] orbit a bit closer to that. If there’s layers to an entity or a life, this is kind of at the pure center of it. I’m coming up with this theory for some reason right now with you. [Laughs] At the root of the songs, a lot of the songs on other releases, we have wrung them out — put them literally through the wringer — to see what they want to become, what they can become, what we’re trying to hear and get out of them. Are we challenging them or going too far with them? With these, we don’t ever take that journey. It’s much earlier in the inception of the life of the song that we stop meddling with them. There’s a little more to just be with them, which is at the root of things.
Seth Avett: The series itself sort of represents a simplification across many aspects of this whole thing. It represents the clearing out of many great things, many great tools, and many great advantages we have with our band and our resources, and our possibilities. It simplifies the process of collaboration, the process of artwork. It simplifies recording, mixing, mastering and everything else. Across the board, it’s just a process of simplification and reduction, to where the only real star is the lyrics. I think that we’re still attempting to make something that’s engaging, musically, but it’s no secret: what we put our time into is storytelling, writing words and then sharing them onstage. It’s always at the heart of our songs, and so the Gleam is presenting only the heart rather than the entire body in a way.
Bob Crawford: They’re Scott and Seth’s sketchbooks, really. If you knew these guys as well as I do — and I know a lot of people know them very well, because they put it all out there and they always have — but if you love a great painter’s paintings, and you become a connoisseur of that painter’s paintings, their sketchbooks are widely available nowadays, be it Rembrandt or Leonardo da Vinci. That’s how I look at the Gleams, stitched in with the fabric of all our work: they’re basically more broken down, raw thoughts that they guys have. They’ve always wanted these things to be quieter and less. This is the first one, I think, I’ve played on; normally it’s just Scott and Seth doing these. It’s just a chance for them to get quiet, be alone, and be brothers.
You’ve been very busy between Gleams. How has it been to return to this acoustic space after playing arena-ready roots-rock on Closer Than Together?
Seth Avett: What it does for me, personally, is it takes a new inventory of our trust, of our brotherhood — my trust for Scott and his trust for me — with no other real considerations. It’s wonderful to be reminded in such a genuine way, with such gravity, that we still trust each other completely, and we’re not moving forward based only on the efforts of others. We still have each other’s trust and care, and we still hold those things in the highest regard. It’s a funny thing: on the first two Gleams and on this one, when we go into the process of finding out what the songs are going to be, and we present them to each other, there’s very little discussion.
All these full-length records, whether one person wrote the whole song technically or not, the other one will have a certain amount of contribution to it. There’s a lot of weighing: “What does it mean?” “Can it be said better?” “Is this too much, is this too little?” We do consider them in a big way, and we consider the songs on the Gleams in a big way as well — but we hardly talk about it. It’s like, “Hey, here’s four songs that are feeling really good to me and things I want to say,” and the other brother says the same, and that’s it. We just do it. It’s cool.
Bob Crawford: These Gleams give them an opportunity to come together and work together a little more than they have in recent years. We’re coming full-circle because of the pandemic. Since the pandemic, they’ve been living very close together and spending more time together. They were always close as brothers and best friends, but closer, approximately, so they could get together. We were actually about to go to Malibu to record the week the pandemic hit, the week of the shutdown. Ultimately, we tried to do it all these different ways; it just didn’t work out, so it turned into them recording demos themselves, sending me the demos, and me recording the bass and sending them back.
Did any of these new songs pose a new challenge you hadn’t confronted in your songwriting before?
Scott Avett: What’s different about mine — and this is a change for Seth and I — we sort of switched places. Several years ago, I probably would’ve been the one that tended to be more rapid-fire, more erratic. I just chop it up with a lot of syllables and a lot of words. On this one, we switched. We were laughing about it. Seth’s songs have a lot of words and tell stories, they’re narrative, and then mine are very much personal and have a lot less words and a lot more space.
I always look at it that there’s only one character on the record, there’s one character in the story, and the two of us kind of make that character. We would do very different things on our own, probably. There’s a contrast to it, a gemini sort of approach to it I guess. [“I Should Have Spent the Day With My Family”] is a good example of what’s changed for us. It’s minor and subtle to anybody else, but it’s a change for us.
Seth Avett: If you look at The Third Gleam, it’s impossible not to compare and contrast between me and Scott — I know it is, I’m sure all of our fans do it — where the differences between the Seth and Scott songs have never been more laid bare, in terms of the difference of the vibe. Scott’s songs, they just have so much space and breadth in them. I don’t look at “Family” or “Fire” as songs that have a ton of breadth in them; they feel a bit more urgent.
The narratives have a bit more of an agenda. Whereas, “I Go to My Heart,” “Victory,” “Back into the Light,” they have quite a lot of breadth and space, and so I’m seeing a change in him. If we are writing the songs we’re meant to write, and we are giving reverence to our form, then the changes in us are the changes in the song. If you ask, “How have I seen his writing change?” I’m thinking about how he is growing and changing, as a man, as a father, as a brother. It’s all kind of wrapped in one.
The role of advocacy and activism in music has changed, even since you released Closer Than Together, and “Family” is a turning point for you especially, Seth. You mention your wife and child by name in a song about gun violence, and you’ve never done that before. How has it been to anchor the Gleam in this moment in that regard?
Seth Avett: I can’t say that there was a point where I said, “Okay, now I’m going to open the door and start writing these types of songs.” This sort of happened incrementally. A song like “Bang Bang,” there were multiple moments where I’d go to a hotel room, and I’d turn on the television, and it’s just one [show] after the next, from ridiculous garbage to the most eloquent sci-fi — but it’s always the leading man with the gun. It’s always presented with such power, and it’s just ridiculous. The idea of holding a gun to make someone powerful is absurd; it’s preposterous.
I had many moments like that, and then there were many shootings. “I Should Have Spent the Day with My Family” is an obvious, super-literal reaction; “We Americans,” that’s the first four years of a person’s life growing up as an American. I don’t know that there’s one moment where I gave myself permission, but there have been many moments that I consider wholly unavoidable in terms of taking that into the songwriting.
This has been a tumultuous time, so I was curious if you think there’s a connection between that and going back to the foundation with an acoustic EP. Do you find that it was an organic thing to take a step back and retract to that nucleus and get to the root of all things Avett with The Third Gleam, considering everything going on?
Bob Crawford: It’s definitely a time of reflection, and it does make you appreciate all we’ve done, because you don’t know when and how we’re going to do it again. … For me, “Victory” is the greatest song they ever wrote. We only win when we submit; we only find peace when we let go. How do we hold it all together in our hearts at the same time? How do we not lose our minds at that? How do we find true peace inside while there’s chaos flowing back and forth? I think, hopefully, the Avett Brothers can be part of the center of that. If you are the center of that, you’re not polarizing. You can’t alienate anybody. No matter what you know they believe, face to face is how we live the gospel, how we can make real change.
On the national music scene, North Carolina sets itself apart by blending the heritage of traditional roots music with the innovation of modern indie and Americana sounds. The bluegrass canon of North Carolina encompasses pioneers like Charlie Poole and Earl Scruggs, as well as groundbreaking musicians like Elizabeth Cotten, Alice Gerrard, and Doc Watson. Today’s spectrum of talent spans from modern favorites such as Darin & Brooke Aldridge, Balsam Range, and Steep Canyon Rangers, and the progressive perspective of the Avett Brothers, Rhiannon Giddens, Mandolin Orange, Hiss Golden Messenger, Mipso, and many more.
One example of how the state is merging past with present is the recent opening of North Carolina’s only vinyl pressing plant — Citizen Vinyl in Asheville.
According to press materials, the building’s third floor played host to Asheville’s historic WWNC (“Wonderful Western North Carolina”) which was once considered the most popular radio station in the United States. In 1927, the station hosted live performances by Jimmie Rodgers and made his first recordings shortly before he went to Bristol, Tennessee. In 1939, the station featured the first ever live performance by Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys during its Mountain Music Time segment. Citizen Vinyl expects to keep the live music tradition alive in this former newspaper building, too.
Here at BGS, we’ve been committed to North Carolina music from our launch, notably with our Merlefest Late Night Jams, which are always worth staying up for. And how much do we love the IBMA World of Bluegrass week in Raleigh? Looking back on our archive, we gathered these songs from the artists we’ve covered over the years — and looking ahead, you’ll see all-new interviews with the Avett Brothers and Mipso, examine the classic country stars with roots in North Carolina, and spotlight some rising talent with video performances at the state’s most scenic destinations.
In the meantime, you can discover more about the North Carolina music scene through their website and on Instagram at @comehearnc
Editor’s note: This content brought to you in part by our partners at Crossroads Label Group.
This week on The Show On The Road, a conversation with Nicole Atkins, a singer/songwriter out of Neptune City, New Jersey who has become notorious for making her own brand of theatrical boardwalk soul.
The Show On The Road host Z. Lupetin fell in love with Atkins’ newest, harmony-rich record, Italian Ice, which came out spring 2020 and was recorded in historic Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Both rumblingly ominous and joyously escapist, standout songs like “Domino” make the record a perfectly David Lynch-esque summer soundtrack of an uneasy 2020 scene that vacillates between fits of intense creativity and innovation and deep despair. Toiling below the radar for much of her career, Atkins is finally enjoying nationwide recognition as a sought-after writer and producer; Italian Ice was co-produced by Atkins and Ben Tanner of Alabama Shakes.
While some may try to shoehorn Nicole Atkins into the Americana and roots-rock categories, one could better describe her as a new kind of wild-eyed Springsteen, who also mythologized the decaying beauty of New Jersey’s coastal towns like Asbury Park, or a similarly huge-voiced, peripatetic Linda Ronstadt who isn’t afraid to mix sticky French-pop grooves with AM radio doo-wop, ’70s blaxploitation R&B and airy jazz rock like her heroes in the band Traffic. If you watch her weekly streaming variety show, “Live From The Steel Porch” (which she initially filmed from her parents’ garage in NJ, but now does from her new home in Nashville), you’ll see her many sonic tastes and musical friends gathering in full effect. Italian Ice features a heady collection of collaborators including Britt Daniel of Spoon, Seth Avett, Erin Rae, and John Paul White.
After playing guitar and moving in and out of hard-luck bar bands in Charlotte and New York — many of which that would find any way to get rid of their one female member — Atkins’ bold first solo record Neptune City dropped in 2007 and three more acclaimed LPs followed, including her twangy, oddball breakout, Goodnight Rhonda Lee in 2017 on John Paul White’s Single Lock Records.
Much like the tart and brain-freezing treat sold on boardwalks around the world, Atkins’ newest work is a refreshing and many-flavored thing and demonstrates that, in a lot of ways, the show-stopping performer, producer, and songwriter has finally embraced all the sharp edges of her personality.
Artist:The Avett Brothers Hometown: Concord, North Carolina Song: “Victory” Album:The Third Gleam Release Date: August 28, 2020 Label: Loma Vista Recordings
In Their Words: “The Third Gleam was finished before a virus and its carnage swept through humankind in the spring of 2020. It was finished before the most recent injustices against Black lives inspired outrage and a much-needed call for social reform and revolution. Through the fever pitch of fear over the pandemic, outcry in the wake of widely observable bigotry, and mourning over the death caused by both, we are united in conflict… put to task in the arenas of our fortitude, our morality, indeed the strength of our own souls, individually and collectively. It is a time of heightened experience; heightened response; heightened resolve. If you are reading or hearing this statement now, you are a part of it.
(Editor’s Note: Read more from their statement below.)
“And yet, neither of these massive fundamental concerns are entirely new to us. Sickness… in body and in mind are old news for our species, and in truth have found us susceptible throughout our complex history. And so our plagues, biological, behavioral and systemic, are intrinsically a part of us. We navigate them poorly at times and heroically at others.
“To the point of this writing, as it pertains to the announcement of a record release, it barely warrants mentioning that an eight-song collection is a whisper of an offering in a time of blaring considerations. As I mentioned before, Scott and I finished this album just before these two fundamental concerns overtook nearly the entire planet. Consequently, as the timeline goes, the songs were not informed specifically by the urgent and pivotal concepts which are now center stage. However, as these factors have been and will remain a part of us as a whole, independent of a specific moment in history, the songs of this particular piece do connect somehow to this particular time. Our personal perspectives and experiences are inherently the common thread, which is an element we have found to be imperative in our process of making art. Even so, there are themes which have made their way into this chapter of songs that are undeniably universal, and anchored in our current world…
“Isolation, resilience, frustration, confusion, contemplation and hope are here, both in regards to our own lives and as a consideration of the human experience in general. There is humor and love, both for life itself and as it binds a pairing of people. We touch on historical prejudice, faith, economic disparity, gun violence, incarceration, redemption, and as is increasingly standard with our records, stark mortality. This is by no means a record defined by any specific social or cultural goal, nor is it informed by a singular challenge posed to humanity. It is merely the sound of my brother and I in a room, singing about what is on our minds and in our hearts at the time…sharing it now is about what sharing art is always about: another chance that we may partake in connecting with our brothers and sisters of this world, and hopefully joining you in noticing a speck of light gleaming in what appears to be a relatively long and dark night.” — The Avett Brothers
The Avett Brothers are back with a mission statement for their next release, Closer Than Together, arriving on October 4. But what’s the inspiration behind “High Steppin’,” their first video from the album?
A release announcing the video describes it this way: “The video for ‘High Steppin” shows Scott Avett as a ‘rhinestone cowboy’ and Seth Avett as what some could describe as ‘death’ as his passenger. The two ride together and encounter a stop in the road where Bob Crawford and steppers are waiting for them. In a spoken word interlude Seth Avett notes that ‘you can only live one day at a time, only drive one hot rod at a time, only say one word at a time, only think one thought at a time….’ A meaningful commentary on life that finishes with a hopeful ending.”
Check out the video for “High Steppin’,” then check out the statement posted below.
A statement from Seth Avett:
The last thing the world needs is another piece of sociopolitical commentary. We, as a species that boasts at least some semblance of consciousness, are entering an odd new form of fatigue: one that encompasses not only our observance of the behavior of others (nefarious and otherwise), but also our seemingly unlimited endurance to loudly judge and wax philosophically about it. Of course, in each instance, regardless of its nature or circumstance, our own personal opinions are presented as the clear, correct, and only perspective on any given subject. We speak as if we are not one body, though we are. We judge as if we don’t value the judgment of others upon us, though we do. We forget to put our feet into the shoes of our neighbor, and curse them for making the same ancient mistake.
My brother and I have never been more aware of our own failings in the department of golden-rule navigation. We see it in ourselves and we are accustomed to seeing it in our neighborhood, our state, our country, our planet. We speak daily with each other about the lunacy of the world in which we live… the beauty of it, the mystery of it, the hilarity and the unspeakable calamity of it. We talk about God and community and evil and what forgiveness is and what it means to aim for unconditional love in a land (and body) full of conditions. Sometimes we feel better just from speaking about it with a loved one. Sometimes we don’t and we go to our little bunks on the tour bus and continue to process the latest example of fear-inducing news that our phones have indiscriminately handed us. We then simultaneously endeavor to forgive ourselves for being in the fortunate position of having bunks in a tour bus to lie down on. In whatever way we process both personal and universally-affecting events, at some point, these conversations grow melodies and find themselves stepping back into our lives in the forms of songs.
As our records tend to be, the newest — entitled Closer Than Together – is certainly led by the personal narrative of our own lives. In this way, there is no massive departure from our continued artistic language. This chapter however, perhaps in part because of our age or our time, wanders inevitably into hallways both social and political. These are songs developed through and inspired by not only what we see inside our homes and our travels, but by the connections we are blessed to nourish, the conversations by which we are surprised and intrigued, and by the far-reaching experiences of our distant brothers and sisters. We are family men with good and evil in our hearts, and the pains and joys in this world are mirrored on the small scale of our own personal existence. The songs herein are reflections of what we are. ‘We’ meaning Scott and me. ‘We’ meaning this family and this band. ‘We’ meaning the strangers we’ve had (and will have) the honor of encountering all over the world. ‘We’ meaning ‘We the People.’
We didn’t make a record that was meant to comment on the sociopolitical landscape that we live in. We did, however, make an album that is obviously informed by what is happening now on a grander scale all around us…because we are a part of it and it is a part of us. Closer Than Together is a record of obvious American origin — a creation that fittingly could only come about through hard work, measured freedom, awe-inspiring landscapes, and perfectly flawed individualism.
The Avett Brothers will probably never make a sociopolitical record. But if we did, it might sound something like this.
Pete Seeger would have turned 100 this month, but he fit well over a century’s worth of impact into the ninety-four years he had. His accomplishments as an activist, musician, folklorist, and organizer have long been numerous enough to fill an anthology—and this month, Smithsonian Folkways has finally released one, complete with six CDs, a 200-page book, and twenty previously unreleased recordings.
The release, Pete Seeger: The Smithsonian Folkways Collection, is just one way to celebrate his centennial. Fans and admirers have also marked the occasion with “Spirit of Seeger” concerts nationwide, and a special set at this summer’s Newport Folk Festival, an event where Seeger’s impact is perhaps most evident.
But Pete’s legacy is about more than a single release or celebration. Jay Sweet, executive producer at Newport Folk and a friend to Seeger, says the late folk music icon wouldn’t want any fanfare for his birthday—he’d rather see a new generation put that energy towards helping others. Here, in the first of a two-part interview, Sweet recalls conversations and memories with Seeger and discusses the way Pete’s egalitarian spirit and fiery pursuit of truth continues to propel the Newport Folk Festival forward.
BGS: You met Pete for the first time after he was a well-established icon in the American folk scene. What was that like for you?
Sweet: They say to be careful when you meet your heroes. For me, with Pete, it was the exact opposite, and it was mostly because he wasn’t Mister Positive. When I met him in his late eighties, he was a bit of a curmudgeon. I actually really liked that. He was feisty, he was disgruntled with the state of everything that was happening in the world, and he was questioning why the younger generations weren’t doing more. I think he kind of considered them soft, and I liked that he was calling it like it was.
Did that attitude reveal itself more as you grew closer over the years?
A story that I love happened few years after I met him, at Newport the first time I brought the Decemberists there. I was really excited to see them—they were going to do a funny reenactment of Dylan Goes Electric, including Pete with an axe. (I’d even told them it’d have to be kind of tongue-in-cheek, because, y’know, uh, Pete’s here.) But during the set, I get this security guard running up to me: “We’ve lost Pete. You told us to keep an eye on Mr. Seeger. We don’t know where he is.” Then, immediately, there’s another security guard running up to me. “There’s somebody in the scaffolding up on stage left, thirty-five feet up in the air. We’ve asked him to come down, but the music has started and we don’t want to interrupt the band on stage. What do we do?”
So I go, and I look, and lo and behold—in his Wranglers and a purple-pink button-down work shirt, with his little hat—was Pete Seeger at ninety-plus, thirty-five feet up in the air, looking down at the Decemberists. I remember being terrified, thinking, Well, the best thing to do is to not scare him, to wait til he comes down. There were no stairs or anything, he had just climbed.
So when he got down, I was like, Pete… what?! And he said, “I was so sick of people asking me to take pictures with them and sign autographs. You told me that this band had a lot of good stuff—that their music was based in old-time sea shanties, had all these metaphors, took from these old tales. And I was fascinated. I had to see it. And they’re fantastic!” And I just remember thinking, I know Newport is onto something when Pete Seeger is climbing the scaffolding to be left alone, just to see good music.
I’ve heard that it was actually Pete’s idea, decades ago, to pay all of the performers the same fee to play—$50. And I know that’s not how it works now, but—
It’s pretty close! [Laughs]
What elements of that spirit are still around?
Well, we perhaps overpay up-and-coming artists — those who need it, really, in order to be able to take the dog-crap offers they get all over the place and still survive. If we don’t overpay them, we give them the opportunity to collaborate with somebody that is gonna help their star shine a little brighter, give them a platform to succeed. With anybody bigger than that, we basically ask to take a zero, or even more than a zero, away from their normal asking fee. And then we make a donation in their name to something that they believe in.
And the reason that works is because there’s an understanding. You can look at, say, the Avett Brothers, who I booked three or four times before they ever headlined. Hozier — his very first, basically, gig, in the United States? It was Newport. Courtney Barnett and Leon Bridges and Margo Price, all these amazing people that came to Newport before they became the names that you might recognize. We need to support the hell out of them, and not just for altruistic reasons. Bands like the Avett Brothers and Wilco and Hozier and the Alabama Shakes and My Morning Jacket, you don’t get those bands to come back year after year if you didn’t support them when nobody else did.
And I think that is all about that $50 model, and a general understanding of it. Fleet Foxes’ Robin [Pecknold] said it really well on a PBS special: He said, when we first came here, they didn’t pay us much, but we hadn’t proven ourselves. Then I think they paid us the exact same amount when we came back to Newport to headline. The interviewer was confounded by that, he asked — why? And [Robin] essentially said, “Because now there’s another band that Jay needs to book. They’re the Fleet Foxes from ten years ago, and they need that help. Me playing it, it’s a giving back.”
And that? It’s very rare. But it comes from the spirit of Pete saying that regardless of whether you’re Bob Dylan at the height of his popularity or church singers from Appalachia, you’re getting fifty bucks. That we’re-all-in-this-together mentality comes from that fifty dollars. And if during my tenure, if the whole thing is as close as I can get to the ideal of Pete Seeger, the better off the festival will be.
What were some of your last interactions with Pete, and how do they affect the way you move forward with Newport?
My last conversations with Pete were much more interesting than my first ones, in some respects. One is that he said to me, “Jay, if you’re not upsetting someone, you’re doing it wrong.” That’s a mantra I keep with me — a what-would-Pete-say kind of thing. That’s what makes Newport, this festival that Pete basically co-founded with George Wein, iconic in American music and around the world, even though it’s so small—why its name gets continuously mentioned in the same breath as the Glastonberrys and Bonnaroos and Coachellas. I remember him saying, “You’ve gotta keep challenging the ears of our audience. Unless you’re upsetting a certain faction, you’re doing it wrong. Take the opportunity.”
About four months before he died, he asked me, “How are you going to keep booking people that speak truth to power, speak on the human condition? Who is doing that now?” I said, “Well, at this point Pete, it’s hip-hop.” I sent him some lyrics—just lyrics at first, no music—and he wrote back and said, “These are fascinating. Does any of this stuff get radio play?” And I was like “Actually, no. It’s somewhat like when you started the festival.” Because when people like Pete and Joan Baez and others had lyrical messages that, due to the lingering effects of McCarthyism, were not “fit for radio,” Newport was created out of that blacklisting.
Pete figured, if I can’t get my message to the masses via these mediums, I’m just gonna do it in person, all over the country and all over the world. I’ll take it to union halls and VFWs and town assemblies, and whatever it is—gymnasiums at public schools. The festival was basically just a massive culmination of the grassroots effort to play for the island of misfits. So I think there was a lot of connection there, for him, with hip-hop—Kendrick Lamar, Chance the Rapper. It was fascinating to me. But white Pete was alive, we could never bring that to fruition for him. Bring somebody to Newport in a free rhyme, just a beat and somebody freestyling. I think he actually would have climbed that scaffolding again: “Leave me alone—I want to go see this truth.”
When it comes to roots music, the MerleFest 2019 lineup is tough to beat. From bluegrass heroes to country legends, along with a number of perennial favorites like the Avett Brothers, this year’s four-day event promises to be one for the record books. Where to begin? Check out the BGS daily preview below.
Editor’s Note: MerleFest 2019 will take place April 25-28 in Wilkesboro, North Carolina. The Bluegrass Situation is proud to present the Late Night Jam on Saturday, April 27. Get tickets.
THURSDAY, APRIL 25
Headliner: Wynonna
No one else on earth has a voice like Wynonna. Of course she got her start in the Judds, which brought an acoustic flavor back to mainstream country music in the 1980s. She’s also frequently cited Hazel Dickens and Alice Gerrard as among her earliest musical influences. You’ll surely hear the hits, yet a new record deal with Anti- means that more music is on the way.
Don’t miss: Junior Brown can wow a crowd with his “guit-steel” double neck guitar, not to mention wry tunes like “My Wife Thinks You’re Dead.” Dailey & Vincent know a thing or two about quick wit, with their fast-talking banter tying together a repertoire of bluegrass, country, and gospel. Accomplished songwriter Radney Foster issued a new album and a book – both titled For You to See the Stars – in 2017. North Carolina’s own bluegrass combo Chatham County Line kicks off the day, likely with a few familiar tunes from their new album, Sharing the Covers.
FRIDAY, APRIL 26
Headliner: Tyler Childers
With the album Purgatory, Tyler Childers captivated fans who demand authenticity from their favorite artists. The acclaimed project falls in that sweet spot where Americana, bluegrass and country music all merge gracefully. Yet the sonic textures of “Universal Sound” show that he’s not stuck in the past. In a crowded field of newcomers, Childers’ distinctive singing voice and incisive writing set him apart.
Don’t miss: If you’re into guys who write quality songs, then you’re in luck. Leading up to Childers’ set, fans can dig into the likes of Amos Lee, The Milk Carton Kids, The Black Lillies, American Aquarium, and Steve Poltz. If bluegrass is more your style, check out Mile Twelve and Junior Sisk & Ramblers Choice in the early afternoon. Before that, make the most of your lunch break with country music from Michaela Anne and Elizabeth Cook. The Chris Austin Songwriting Competition is worth a stop, too.
SATURDAY, APRIL 27
Headliner: Brandi Carlile
Brandi Carlile catapulted into a new phase of her career by singing “The Joke” on the Grammys this year, not to mention winning three awards before the show. However, dedicated fans have followed her ascent since her auspicious 2005 debut album and its exceptional follow-up, The Story. She’s a master at engaging a crowd and a Saturday night headlining slot at MerleFest is yet another feather in her cap.
Don’t miss: Doc Watson himself would have approved of all the bluegrass artists on Saturday, such as Sam Bush Band, The Earls of Leicester, the Gibson Brothers, and Molly Tuttle. Keb’ Mo, Donna the Buffalo, and Webb Wilder converge upon Americana from different originas, yet they are united in their ability to electrify a crowd – even at a mostly acoustic festival. Folk fans should swing by The Brother Brothers, Carolina Blue, Driftwood, Ana Egge, Elephant Sessions, and The Waybacks. The Kruger Brothers always offer a pleasurable listening experience, too. Still not ready for the tent? Drop by the Late Night Jam, hosted by Chatham County Line and presented by yours truly, BGS. You won’t want to miss the set of special collaborations and true, on the spot, one of a kind jams with artists from all across the festival lineup.
SUNDAY, APRIL 28
Headliner: The Avett Brothers
The Avett Brothers elevate the MerleFest experience by bringing together a multitude of influences, from string bands to stadium rock. The charming track “Neopolitan Sky” dropped in February, employing a Tom Petty vibe and a surprisingly scaled-back production, as well as the sibling harmony that’s central to their sound. The North Carolina natives are proud fans of Doc Watson, so here’s hoping for “Shady Grove” to go along with fan faves like “Live and Die,” “Murder in the City,” and “I and Love and You.”
Don’t miss: The Del McCoury Band always brightens a Sunday afternoon with traditional bluegrass and any number of hollered requests. Steep Canyon Rangers will deliver a set inspired by the North Carolina songbook. After that, the ever-prolific Jim Lauderdale will take the stage with a set drawing from his country and bluegrass career. Early risers will be treated to morning music from Lindi Ortega, who hit a career high of creativity with her newest album, Liberty. Also of note: Jeff Little Trio, Andy May, Mark and Maggie O’Connor, Peter Rowan, Scythian, Larry Stephenson Band, Yarn, and all the good vibes that MerleFest has to offer.
For nearly 50 years, Asleep at the Wheel have been anything but that. Since the Western swing outfit formed in 1970, members have come and gone, but bandleader Ray Benson — he of the towering 6’7” frame — has remained the one constant. The Texas institution now boasts musicians from Wisconsin, Washington, and beyond, with influences that inform an ever-widening soundscape. As Benson writes in the prologue to his 2015 book with Dave Menconi, Comin’ Right At Ya: “I’ve always played retro music that’s out of step with the mainstream, but that hasn’t kept me from being ahead of the curve on a lot of things.”
Asleep at the Wheel’s newest album, New Routes, touches on Cajun swamp, Irish traditional music, gypsy folk, and more. Although the band has released multiple tributes to Western Swing star Bob Wills, their new project closes with “Willie Got There First,” a clever tribute to Benson’s longtime friend, Willie Nelson. Written by Seth Avett and recorded with Scott and Seth Avett, the song claims that Nelson has already written and sung practically every feeling that needs to be written and sung.
That may be true, yet one of the band’s sultry new numbers, “Call It a Day Tonight,” marks the first time Benson has written with a member of Asleep at the Wheel since the 1980s. In this case, it’s Katie Shore, an accomplished singer and fiddler who joined Benson for a chat with the Bluegrass Situation.
What was the collaborative process like for “Call It a Day Tonight”?
Ray Benson: It was the first time I had ever co-written with somebody and could use texting and mobile phone.
That would make such a difference.
Benson: Yeah, you didn’t have to be in the same room, or make a tape and send it in the mail.
Katie Shore: For me, one thing that’s hard about writing with someone is I still have to go be alone with it. I think that Ray’s kind of similar. We had time to be apart and we ended up sending ideas back and forth, so the song wrote itself. We were really on the same page. … That’s the thing about this record—it was everybody bringing a piece of yourself and an idea. We recorded close to 30 songs at the end of it, and then had to whittle it down.
Benson: We haven’t been able to do anything more because we’re working: Getting up every day, getting on the bus. It’s been a month-and-a-half tour and a month before that.
That kind of daily grind, for anyone who’s creative, can take that impulse or spark out of the desire to write.
Shore: We spend a lot of time cruising down the road and I’m always trying to write little ideas or jot things down. But we don’t really have any space to get any instruments out, which all of us that write in the band kind of need.
Benson: But then again I wrote a melody today. I was waiting for our hotel room, and it’s like, “Ok, file that away.”
I know that it’s possible to write on the road, but I think there’s a certain kind of mental space you lack too when you’re on a bus.
Benson: Oh yeah. Just energy too. All you want to do is get a little bit of rest, shower, get your clothes on, get something to eat, and then go do the show. [“Call It a Day,”] it’s a good one though.
It is a good one, and I was also dumbstruck by the rhythm and feel you’ve got on “Pass the Bottle Around.” That deep, gritty sound.
Benson: I spent a lot of time in the Cajun world back in the ‘70s. I had this idea — I was listening to Blind Willie Johnson — and I started singing. Suddenly, I realized I had taken inspiration from him. You know, I wrote that for Emily Gimble, who’s Johnny Gimble’s granddaughter. She sang with us for a while. I had this idea for her, then I realized it’s for me. I remember when I brought it to the band, they said, “We’ll put saxophones on it.” I said, “No, no, no, this is swampy.”
It reminded me of Tony Joe White, but I love how you’re taking it in this whole contemporary direction.
Benson: Tony Joe came and played with us on my birthday last year. That’s as high a compliment as you could’ve paid me. I love Tony Joe. He’s the funkiest white man I ever met.
That’s the truth! The album’s title, New Routes, seems to juxtapose the ending song with its suggestion that everything’s been written — at least by Willie Nelson. Do you think there are still new avenues to explore?
Benson: Oh yeah. I started Asleep at the Wheel 48 years ago, and it’s always been a collective. The direction of Asleep at the Wheel is the direction that the personnel are capable of doing. This bunch really have a creative energy that’s going to create a whole lot of cool stuff with the Western swing mode, the gypsy swing mode, rockabilly. That’s what Asleep of the Wheel has always been about—that wide range of Americana music.
What do you look for in terms of your collaborators?
Benson: What we have, which is great talent and contribution. We might be the primary writers, me and Katie, but the other guys write too. Even if they don’t write, the arrangements they do…
Shore: Everybody is such a serious musician in this band. I think that is what’s kept Asleep at the Wheel going for 50 years—a lot of great players have come in and out of this band. What’s cool is a lot of us have been friends for a long time, even some of the younger folks in the band. Everybody comes from a different influence, and yet we all grew up loving the same stuff. It’s cool to see Western swing evolve. Ray hires people for what they can do, and everybody’s really different. We’re kind of a hodgepodge.
Benson: It’s a tapestry, not a hodgepodge. [Laughs]
You said you started off with 30 songs for this album. What was the recording process like?
Benson: Some of them are half-finished and sitting in the can at the studio. I know we’ll use some of them because it was hard to whittle it down to the 10 or so. Then with the Avett Brothers, Seth sent me that song [“Willie Got There First”], and I said to him, “Hey guy, we oughta do this sometime.” He and Scott got together and said, “Alright, we’re going to come down and do it with y’all.”
It is really magic and then to get Bobbie, who is Willie’s sister, and Mickey Raphael, who I’ve known before he joined Willie Nelson. I hadn’t recorded with Mickey since 1974 and it was really neat to have this homage to Willie, and of course Willie being the funny sonabitch that he is, I sent him the song before I recorded it and I said, “What do you think about it?” and he said, “It’s so hard to be humble.” He’s so funny. He’s still got that great quick wit.
I know you have a long history with Willie, but what brought about this tribute? Seth really just came to you with a song?
Benson: I had met them a number of years ago and we were kindred spirits in our love of roots music, so we became friends. [Seth] had read my book with Dave Menconi and we started texting back and forth. He sent me that song because it’s very sweet of him to do that; he knows my relationship with Willie.
In fact, that’s how they met. The Avett Brothers were coming through town and I was putting together that show with George Strait and everybody [an all-star fundraising concert for Texas wildfire relief in 2011]. I said, “Hey, you’re coming through town anyway. You can come up and sing ‘Will the Circle Be Unbroken’ with Willie and us. We became friends. It’s the same thing as the people who drew their inspiration from roots music but create their own modern music.
And they came down to Austin to record the song?
Benson: Yeah, we booked a show with the Avetts and Asleep at the Wheel. That’s how we made it possible for them to come down. They were very generous, and they happened to be coming through Texas in that time period, and it all worked out. As my friend Big Boy Medlin says, “Everything works if you let it.” You have to trust the cosmos is going to come your way when it’s supposed to.
I love that it’s a family reunion in a few different ways.
Benson: Yeah, that’s funny because we cut the track and we were done, and I said, “Seth, I’m going to try and get Bobbie and Mickey to do this.” He said, “Let’s do it. That makes this history as opposed to just another song.” I’m usually against those kinds of songs that mention the name of the song and get so corny, but to me it was poetry. You’ve got poetry, let’s go with it.
Photo credit (live shot): Patrick Carnahan Photo credit (posed shot): Asleep at the Wheel
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