Joe Pug will not engage in the left-brained vs. right-brained debate. His artistry and pragmatic business sense have lived in actual parallel through his music career. His songwriting and creativity are fueled by passion and result in dramatic and exciting songs, as on his new album Sketch of a Promised Departure. He’s stayed ahead of the curve and created an ecosystem where self-reliance, growth and business thrive especially with his latest venture, The Nation of Heat Vault, that has every album, podcast, and newsletter up behind a paywall. In our interview, we dig into his creative process, family life and artistic balance while creating his latest project.
The album was made on his own time at his new home studio, which he’s been working on for a decade. His reflection on having complete control over the music production is one of relief and joy in that he was able to take as long as he wanted. In this episode, we go through several songs on the album, remarking on songs like “Then the Rain,” which shines in its simplicity just like many songs of Lucinda Williams’, one of his biggest inspirations. We also talk about his journey into adulthood when he moved to Chicago, a chapter in his life he writes about in detail on the new album. He talks about what he hopes for his own young kids’ futures and how parenting has changed since he first became a dad seven or eight years ago. And of course, we talk about his fantastic podcast, The Working Songwriter, and how being an interviewer has changed his attitude about being the interviewee.
Last month, Sister Sadie took the stage at Nashville’s Station Inn to showcase and celebrate their latest album, No Fear. And although the title itself could be an ode to the group’s unrelenting urge to hop genre fences – from bluegrass to country to pop and back again – it’s also a nod to the resiliency of the band itself.
With No Fear, Sister Sadie showcase three-part, songbird harmonies backed by a keen musical aptitude that’s equally distributed throughout the quintet. The 13-song LP combines the “high, lonesome sound” of bluegrass with a blend of country and pop sensibilities a la The Chicks, Little Big Town, or Pistol Annies.
“There’s a space for bluegrass meets Americana meets country meets pop — that’s what I’m manifesting,” says fiddler and de facto band leader, Deanie Richardson.
To note, the Station Inn appearance was a full-circle sort of thing for the ensemble. First coming together at the storied venue by pure happenstance in December 2012, Richardson, banjoist Gena Britt, and former members guitarist Dale Ann Bradley, bassist Beth Lawrence, and mandolinist Tina Adair were simply a collection of pickers and singers from different circles in Music City.
That initial gig went extremely well, so much so that more shows were booked and things started to unfold into a full-fledged band – albeit one where the members still held day jobs and were raising families. But, the music felt right and so did the performances, so why not tempt fate and see where this ride may go?
Well, what a ride it has been thus far. Appearances on the Grand Ole Opry. Three IBMA awards for Vocal Group of the Year (2019, 2020, 2021) and one for Entertainer of the Year (2020), with Richardson taking home Fiddle Player of the Year in 2020. And a Grammy nomination for Best Bluegrass Album for the 2018 release, Sister Sadie II.
But, in recent years, three of those founding members — Bradley, Lawrence, and Adair — left to pursue other projects, which, in turn, posed one lingering question to Richardson and Britt — where to from here?
“When we started 12 years ago, when we hit that first note at the Station Inn, we felt this magical chemistry in the band,” Richardson says. “Somehow, every time we reinvent this [band], I still feel that magical chemistry when we play music.”
Instead of throwing in the towel and saying it was good while it lasted, Richardson and Britt forged ahead, come hell or high water. They regrouped and reemerged into this next, unknown chapter. Soon, Jaelee Roberts and Dani Flowers came into the fold, both bringing songwriting prowess as well as providing guitar and vocal harmonies to ideally complement Britt. Then, in 2023, bassist Maddie Dalton hopped onboard.
“It’s an eclectic group of ladies and of musical tastes,” Richardson says. “Our home, our hearts and our souls are in bluegrass music. That’s what we love, that’s our passion, but there’s a lot of room for growth there.”
The new album, it’s not bluegrass. It’s not country. It’s just good music. In my opinion, it would be a shame to pigeonhole your music.
Deanie Richardson: Well, that would be our dream, Garret, for someone to not try to put some sort of label or pigeonhole it into somewhere. But, unfortunately, it happens. We went in there with great tunes and just let them arrange themselves, let them work themselves out in the studio. And this is what we got. So, I didn’t go in with bluegrass in mind. I didn’t go in with country in mind. I just went in with all my pals, people I love — great players and great songs.
Is that more by design or just how things have evolved?
DR: I think that’s how it’s evolved. That was not the original [Sister] Sadie. That’s this combination of girls right here. When you have personnel changes like we’ve have along the way, the energy changes — everything shifts.
Gena Britt: You have to reinvent yourself.
DR: You’ve got to figure out where you land when Jaelee Roberts comes in and changes everything. And then you’ve got to figure out where you land when Dani Flowers comes in. And Maddie Dalton. We’ve had three new members. That changes the energy. It changes the vibe. It changes the feel. It changes the vocals. It changes everything. This whole band has grown organically over the last 12 years. This is just where it is right now. We’re about to go in and record a new one and, shoot, it may sound like ZZ Top. I don’t know — you never know.
And I have a lot of solidarity with that, the attitude of just go in and see what happens, see what sticks and see what works.
Dani Flowers: Every single person in this band is a big fan of good writing and good songs. Just trying to serve the song and make sure it had what it needed rather than trying to put any one certain song in a box that it might not fit in.
How does that play into personal goals with the band’s expectations? There’s a lot of a crossover factor in the music. I hear just as much country as I do bluegrass in there.
GB: We’re just going for what we feel. We want to be excited about the song as we want everybody that’s listening to be excited. When we’re in the studio, these songs were brought to life in such a great way.
With the new members, what was kind of the intent coming into the group?
Jaelee Roberts: When I was asked to audition, I was kind of flabbergasted, because I looked up to Sister Sadie. These are all my heroes playing together in a band. And I had grown up around them. It was such a surreal feeling to get to audition. I get to not only learn more from them than I was already learning from them, but I get to part of that and grow with them, bring my spin on stuff.
DF: It was definitely a no-brainer for me when it came to joining the band. I’ve known Deanie since I was 16 or 17, Gena since I was 19 or 20. I’ve always admired them both. They’re incredible at what they do. It was really great for me. I was in the music industry for a while. I had a record deal. I wrote for a publishing company. And then, I had a kid and kind of stopped doing it all for a while. So, to join a band full of women that I already love was a great way to get back into playing music.
And with founding members of a band leaving, there’s this creative vacuum that can occur, where maybe there are more opportunities for other people to step up.
DR: Oh, that’s so great, because it’s true. With the personnel changes we’ve had, there’s been more opportunities for different styles, different vocalists, different everything. It’s crazy how that energy shift just redirects everything. You find a new tunnel or rabbit hole to go down or a new vision. It’s super fun to hear those potential songs and figure out whose voice is going to work. If you listen to a song, it actually tells you where it wants to go.
GB: This band is kind of a melting pot. We all bring such different things to the band. And then, when you put it all together and mix it all together, it’s this great recipe for things that are magical. It’s just heartwarming, too. We actually hangout together when we’re not playing on the road — not a lot of bands do that.
With the band shakeup and everything that’s happened to Sister Sadie in recent years — winning the IBMA for Entertainer of the Year, switching record labels to Mountain Home — what made you decide to keep it going? Was there a moment of maybe shutting it down and doing something else?
DR: One hundred percent. You’re on it. With the last personnel change, Gena and I were on the phone like, “We’re 10 years into this thing. Is it time to call it? Maybe it’s just time.” This band happened by just a group of friends getting together and playing the Station Inn. Then, “Hey, that went really well. Let’s playing the Station Inn again.” Then, Gena starts getting calls from promoters. Do a few shows. Then, Pinecastle says, “Hey, let’s do a record.” We do a record. We do another record. We get nominated for a Grammy.
But, we’ve never really gone in 100 percent. It’s just been organic. I’ve got a ton of things going on. I’ve got a seven-year-old. Gena’s got a job and two kids. It’s never like, “Let’s form a band and let’s go do this.” It was always sort of The Seldom Scene thing — we’ll play when it makes sense. And then, I was like, “What if we give this thing everything we’ve got? What if we put in one 110 percent? What if we got a team? What if we got a manager? What if we got a new record label? What if we got a booking agent? Let’s devote one year to this 110 percent and see what happens” — that’s where we are.
I’m 52 years old. I’ve been doing this and on the road since I was 15. This is the best record we’ve ever done. Going all in was the best choice that we could’ve made.
In the latest episode of Toy Heart, we explore the roots and evolution of bluegrass in the modern era by examining the story of legendary bluegrasser, singer-songwriter, and recording artist, Laurie Lewis.
From her tales of growing up in Berkeley during what Lewis jokingly calls the “folk scare” of the ’60s to finding the joy of music through her father’s classical background and eventually becoming a pioneer for women in the genre, her lifelong career in American roots music is a perfect example of how the innovation and tradition-bending tendencies of bluegrass’s first generation continue full force today. Lewis’s musical transformation over the course of her life shows the entrancing power of bluegrass to steer and alter the course of hers and so many others’ lives.
In our Toy Heart interview, Lewis chats with host Tom Power about the magnetic pulls of Chubby Wise’s fiddle tunes, of albums by the Greenbriar Boys, and of a formative live show by the Byrds. She talks about studying modern dance, “disappointing” her father by “rebelling” and choosing folk music forms over classical, and what eventually led to late-night jams, fiddle contests, and navigating the Bay Area’s bustling bluegrass, folk, and women’s music scenes.
Their conversation closes with a reflection on the ways bluegrass has affected Lewis the most, and, how it continues to shape the identities of its artists and listeners with an intractable, ineffable pull. Power and Lewis point out how current generations – from Molly Tuttle to Tatiana Hargreaves, both mentees and collaborators of Lewis – continue in these same traditions. Plus, Lewis shares what it was like to tour and sing with Dr. Ralph Stanley, himself.
This Toy Heart episode dives deep into the many layers of the genre, helping to demonstrate just some of the many ways bluegrass interweaves itself into musicians’ and fans’ personal and musical identities. Lewis shows there are countless joys in staying true to one’s artistic vision amidst an industry that is always in flux; her insights offer a soulful perspective on continuity and change within the genre, echoing the sentiments of a community that, much like a family, supports and evolves with its members – and that continues to rightly hold Lewis up as a trail-breaker and standard-bearer for the entire genre.
Singer-songwriter Hannah Connolly, originally from Eau Claire, Wisconsin (the same as Justin Vernon and the Bon Iver crew!) has just released her second solo album, Shadowboxing. Written to reflect on musical and life transitions, it was recorded in beautiful Idyllwild, California, just outside of her new hometown of Los Angeles. While in that mountain town, Hannah reconnected with nature through hiking, finding joy in connecting with her friends and collaborators in music.
The process of making Shadowboxing, which was celebratory and fun, was crucial for Connolly’s mental health in music. Her debut album, 2020’s From Where We Are, centered around the trauma and healing she and her family faced after her little brother, Cullen, was killed by a drunk driver in 2015. Born with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, Cullen was the life of the party and a bright light in every room he entered. Being able to process and mourn his loss through the making of her first record was not only extremely difficult, but also very necessary for Hannah. In our Basic Folk conversation, we talk about who Cullen was and how he continues to influence Hannah’s life and music. These days, Hannah is looking for the fun and lightness again, which is exactly what her little brother would want her to do.
Even though Connolly’s visual storytelling and folky roots are strong, they are no match for her love of emo music, which has influenced her since she was a teenager. She even performed, recorded, and toured in an emo band prior to “going solo.” Hannah gets into her emo past, her childhood stint in musical theater and, of course, cheese curds in this new episode of Basic Folk. She also gives us the all important updates on her wedding planning! She recently got engaged to Eric Cannata of the alternative rock band, Young the Giant. I’m so happy for Hannah, not only for her future marriage, but also for creating this joyful new album.
Bestie Lizzie No has just released their career-defining new record, Halfsies, and we are 100% here for it on our 250th episode! Lizzie, who co-hosts Basic Folk, put her entire being, identity, and creativity into this project. There’s a lot going on with their main character, the avatar Miss Freedomland, and we’re getting to the bottom of it in our conversation.
Our hero’s journey begins even before the main character is born. Her inception grew out of disdain for childhood beauty pageants – which Lizzie’s mother actually won back in the early ’60s at a now defunct amusement park called Freedomland. And, there are photos of Little Catherine Quinlan with a look of disgust on her five-year-old face. Lizzie grew up with this story and as she got older, she began to think hard about societal expectations and the stock put into women and children’s emotional expression through their faces. Lizzie also grew up hearing and saying the word “No,” hence the stage name.
Enter Miss Freedomland! (Also the name of Lizzie’s new record label.) She has been tasked with a journey to become free, which will require inner healing, exploration of self-identity, and giving up performance of gender that just feels wrong. The album starts with our main character trying to level up (because, yes, this is a video game) with her own self-expression, revisiting past traumas and shedding the baggage and hot garbage that got her trapped in the first place.
In our conversation, we go track by track through this showstopper of a record and even get some solo live performances. I hope you enjoy exploring Lizzie’s world as much as I did. These songs are brilliant and the concept executed remarkably. Thanks to Studio 9 in North Adams, Massachusetts for the use of their beautiful studio!
Dinty Child, founding member of Session Americana, the beloved Boston roots music collective who’ve accidentally been a band for 20 years, has just released his second solo album, Letting the Lions In. The new songs feature co-writing on all tracks between Dinty and Boston area songwriters like Mark Erelli, Kris Delmhorst, and Dave Godowsky. A self-proclaimed slow-writer, the majority of these songs were written on the annual Sub Rosa songwriting retreat Dinty runs on Three Mile Island (no, not that Three Mile Island) on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. Owned by the Appalachian Mountain Club, Dinty’s family has been working at the island for over 100 years. Dinty currently serves as the off-season manager, putting his musician and carpenter skills to good use hosting songwriter friends at said retreat – like Rose Cousins, Rose Polenzani, Rachael Price, Miss Tess and many more, as well as Miles of Music, a summer camp run by Dinty, Kristin Andreassen, and Laura Cortese.
Letting the Lions In was co-produced by Zachariah Hickman (Josh Ritter, Ray LaMontagne) and recorded at Great North Sound in Parsonsfield, Maine over the course of three days in the spring of 2021. Dinty says, “I often trade construction work for studio time there.”
During our conversation, we dig into why these songs needed to be recorded. Our consensus is that legacy and spreading joy to his community are the top two reasons. Also, Dinty, who says an annoyingly large percentage of his songs start as dreams, talks about what kind of sleeper he is, what’s with the lion, and his thoughts on drinking – thanks to the handful of alcohol songs on the new album. Dinty is a dear friend to the podcast and an important part of the New England musical landscape, we’re thrilled to have him on the show!
Tyrone Cotton, a decades-long mainstay of the Louisville, Kentucky music scene, just released his debut album, Man Like Me. A quick listen to these songs reveals an artist who has spent decades steeped in roots music. Lizzie No spoke with Tyrone and Ray Rizzo, one of the album’s producers, about Tyrone’s journey as an artist and the making of Man Like Me.
Tyrone grew up listening to his grandfather and his friends in the neighborhood playing guitar. With his $60 guitar in hand, Tyrone headed off to music school, studying classic guitar under David Kelsey. At first a shy performer, he leaned into his craft and into the supportive musical community he found in Louisville. Cotton has become a stalwart of the local music scene, playing club shows and a standing gig at a local senior center where he brings the house down with soul classics.
This is where producer Ray Rizzo enters our story. A Kentuckian since the age of 11, he was well-versed in the Louisville music scene when he came across Tyrone and his music at The Rudyard Kipling, a club in town. Ray’s admiration for Tyrone’s songwriting and musical instincts was a guiding principle as they went into the studio to record Man Like Me. Rizzo had spent years watching Cotton perform and wanted to make sure that he captured the magic he had witnessed so many times. If the confident, eclectic roots of Man Like Me are any indication, Tyrone Cotton has more stories to tell and we will be lucky to listen. What makes this album special is what makes the best Americana albums special: a patchwork of influences and traditions, the best of contemporary recording techniques, and a singular storytelling voice.
Canada’s Talia Schlanger is best known for her work in broadcasting, guest-hosting Q with Tom Power on CBC and Alec Baldwin’s “Here’s the Thing” podcast, as well as having taken over for David Dye on NPR Music’s World Cafe from WXPN in Philadelphia. Before all that, Schlanger was an actor and singer in many theater productions including Mamma Mia, Queen’s We Will Rock You, and Green Day’s American Idiot. While she has found much success in her two previous careers, something has been pulling on Talia for years. She wanted to write, record, and perform her own music. She had something to say and made the brave leap into the unknown, leaving her coveted role at World Cafe in order to say it. This culmination of events has led Talia to her debut album, Grace for Going.
In our conversation, Schlanger shares insights into her upbringing in Thornhill, Ontario within a Jewish family deeply rooted in faith and family heritage. She reflects on the impact of her grandparents, Holocaust survivors whose stories shaped her childhood. Talia also talks about her unique journey from performing eight shows a week in theater productions to becoming a distinguished radio host. Her evolution as a singer, her bravery and some important boundaries have allowed her to find her authentic voice while maintaining a crucial work-life balance. Throughout the interview, she touches on themes of personal growth, acts of kindness, and her commitment to learning and curiosity, offering a fascinating glimpse into the life and career of this remarkable person.
Dive into the enchanting world of Elise Leavy – who hails from picturesque Monterey, California – through her latest album, A Little Longer. Leavy’s artistic journey is steeped in the influences of her magical childhood surroundings. Her life growing up was filled with music and art, thanks to her mom’s painting and her stepdad’s own musical talents. Growing up with a deep appreciation for nature and a belief in faeries, Leavy shares how these elements shaped her musical perspective.
As we explore Elise’s musical evolution in this episode of Basic Folk, we touch on her experiences with live performances, overcoming stage fright, and the art of songwriting. Her unique approach to music, drawing from her magical way of thinking, is reflected in her exploration of various musical instruments – from accordion to guitar, piano, fiddle, and more. We also uncover the impact of her time at summer camps, which fostered a sense of community that continues to shape her artistic expression to this day.
This episode delves into the intriguing intersection of Leavy’s musical journey with homeschooling, highlighting the unconventional path she took to prioritize her love for songwriting and music making. She left public school in eighth grade to focus on her craft and built her schedule around attending music camps. She would go on to study at New England Conservatory and she lived briefly in New York. After several years in Nashville, she has recently found herself living in Lafayette, Louisiana.
The songs on Leavy’s new album, A Little Longer, were mostly written while she was based in the Northeast. In our conversation, Elise opens up about her connections to music, magical creatures, and the harmonious blend of romance and fantasy in her musical creations.
Sarah Jarosz is what happens when young women are taken seriously. A huge part of the mandolinist’s story is that she had supportive male mentors and that has added to her confidence. We all know the age old story of “Young woman shows promise, gets exploited by the patriarchy and it affects her work.” We need to hear stories like this. Starting in her hometown of Wimberley, Texas, just 45 minutes outside of Austin – the live music capital of the world – Sarah found the mandolin at 10 years old. Labeled a prodigy, and thanks to the encouraging spirit of folk music, she found mentorship with seasoned professionals like David Grisman, Ricky Skaggs, Tim O’Brien and Béla Fleck. Following her time at The New England Conservatory of Music, she moved to New York and would go on to collaborate with people like Chris Thile in the Live From Here House Band and her trio I’m With Her, featuring Aoife O’Donovan and Sara Watkins, and won four Grammys.
After making the move to Nashville, on her latest album, the very impressive and sonically expansive Polaroid Lovers, Jarosz collaborated with producer Daniel Tashian, which originally was just a low-stakes co-writing project. The success of her first co-writing experience with Daniel led her to pursue other songwriting sessions with Ruston Kelly and Natalie Hemby. The collaboration found on the record has opened Sarah up to new sounds and new experiences. In our conversation, we talk about Sarah stepping into her own voice with confidence on this record and knowing her musical self enough at this point in her life. She describes her experience with confidence using the Dunning–Kruger effect, in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities. AKA “fake it till you make it,” AKA “leap and the net will appear.” She also talks about her parents’ influence on her early musicality and how her mom is doing with her cancer remission. An overall theme of this conversation is that Sarah never lost sight of her goal: Keep it all about the music and don’t let noise get in the way of your important work.
Photo Credit: Shervin Lainez
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