Where Business Meets Banjo, Alison Brown Prepares IBMA Keynote Address

The first time Alison Brown gave a keynote address at IBMA’s annual conference in 2002, the bluegrass industry gathering was still held in Owensboro, Kentucky. So much has changed since then, but not everything. Asked about memories from those early conferences, she replies, “Oh, it was like it is now. I always kind of think of it as a family reunion. It was just a slightly smaller family then, but no less enthusiastic or supportive, as far as I’m concerned.”

Brown is one of bluegrass’ most prominent figures, adept as an artist, a producer, and co-founder of Compass Records. She’s also won a mantle of IBMA awards in multiple categories, including Banjo Player of the Year in 1991 and a Distinguished Achievement Award in 2015.

This year she will present a new keynote address, “Four and a Half Things I’ve Learned,” on Tuesday at IBMA’s World of Bluegrass in Raleigh, North Carolina. She spoke with BGS by phone.

BGS: What was it about this opportunity to present the keynote address that appealed to you?

AB: I was thinking about the fact that this is Compass Records’ 25th anniversary, and so I thought that, personally, it would give me an opportunity to reflect a little bit on where we’ve been and what we’ve learned in the process of doing what we’ve been doing over 25 years. And maybe share a few things with folks that could be edifying for them.

You’re seeing this bluegrass world as an artist and producer, as well as a business owner. What do you hope that the creative side of the bluegrass community will take away from your presentation?

Hmmm, maybe a better understanding of the landscape that we’re all trying to navigate. And how to better position yourself for success. I think some of the idiosyncrasies of the business, from the view of the record company — I wouldn’t expect that most creatives would be as immersed in that as we are, running a record label. And so I think if you know the challenges that you’re dealing with, you’re better able to position your music and your career to take advantage of the opportunities that do exist, and stand a better chance to succeeding.

What are some of the bluegrass community’s greatest strengths right now, do you think?

I really mean this — I think that we are incredibly fortunate to have an organization like IBMA that’s kind of the centerpiece of our community, that’s looking out for all of us and keeping the community together. I really think that’s incredibly valuable, even more than people know. Other roots music genres that don’t have that are not as fortunate as our community, in my opinion.

What are some things that the bluegrass community can really take pride in?

I gave the keynote address back in 2002, so this is actually my keynote redux. You know, looking back at that keynote, a lot of what that was about was embracing diversity, and musical diversity. That was 17 years ago and that was a rallying cry at that point in time, but it’s not like it was a revolutionary idea. I’m really proud of our community for the strides that we have made. Expanding the envelope conceptually, welcoming in people whose music may be more on the fringes of bluegrass, and not exactly emulate what Earl and Lester and Bill did in 1945.

So there’s the musical aspect, but there’s also the demographic diversity, like gender diversity and racial diversity. Those are things that are community is still grappling with — but we are grappling with them and I’m proud of us for that.

One thing I’ve noticed over the last 20 years in bluegrass is that the music videos are better, the websites and album covers are modern, and the band photos are more contemporary. How important are visuals, do you think, for a bluegrass artist to get attention from press, festivals, and audiences in general?

I think visuals are more important than they’ve ever been. It’s my experience that people can’t just listen to music anymore. They have to see music. We have people in the studio all the time and you want to play them a new track, and I can just see their eyes wandering around the room, looking for the screen. “Where do I look while I listen to this?” So, I think it’s more important than ever.

I’ve also noticed that some bluegrass labels are choosing not to put their new music on Spotify. Why is it important for Compass to be represented there?

That’s where the audience is moving. Granted, the traditional bluegrass music audience is slower to adopt a new technology than a more youthful pop audience would be, but still we’re seeing our audience move there and it’s a great place for people to discover new music. It’s one of the new revenue sources for selling music. We’re seeing the music industry move more and more into the streaming arena. It would seem to be crazy not to be there, as frustrating as the economics may be.

It hasn’t really been our experience that having bluegrass on Spotify has meant that we sell less bluegrass in physical form. And it only really supports the artists’ efforts because maybe the older audience is used to consuming physically but the young audience is used to consuming through streaming and digital. So if you’re not present in that space, you’re never going to expand your audience into that younger demographic, and obviously an artist needs to grow their audience. You need to keep trying to make the average age of your audience younger, rather than older, just in terms of your own longevity as an artist.

So many bluegrass musicians are friends with each other, as well as colleagues in a sense. In bluegrass, it’s pretty rare to send a business-related email to someone you don’t know. How do you think that familiarity shapes the business side of bluegrass?

I completely agree with you but I’m not really sure how to answer the question, though. I guess I can really only answer it personally — that that is part of what gives me a lot of joy, to be in the business of the bluegrass world, because this community has meant a tremendous amount to me personally. I’ve been in the bluegrass community since I was 12, which is crazy to think about, and there are people that I see at IBMA that I have known since I was 12 years old. I think about how much others have given me as I’ve come up in this music. So to be able to have a hand in making this music stay healthy, and paying it forward, is very meaningful to me.

Looking back, is there advice you wish you’d been given in 2002 that you had to learn the hard way?

That’s an excellent question. That’s probably something I should ponder for my keynote and see if I can come up with a good answer. I guess the one thing that I would say is, big things can happen in small steps. We’ve been pedaling this bike for 25 years, building this label, and it’s amazing to look back over a quarter of a century and see how something that you literally started at the kitchen table can grow into an entity that some would consider to be a significant force in bluegrass music. I mean, I think I might have known that going into it, so it’s not really a revelation. It just takes a long time, but if you continue to do the work to the best of your ability, over that long period of time, at the end you can stand back and you will have built something that is amazing to see, and that it did really happen.


Photo courtesy of IBMA

IBMA Reveals Award Nominees, Hall of Fame Inductees, Distinguished Achievement Winners

Five of the top bands in bluegrass earned IBMA Entertainer of the Year nominations from the International Bluegrass Music Association. The ballot was revealed on Wednesday morning in Nashville.

The Entertainer of the Year nominees are Balsam Range, Sam Bush Band, The Earls of Leicester, Del McCoury Band, and Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers.

Due to a tie, seven titles will compete for the Song of the Year category. The IBMA Awards will take place Thursday, September 26, at the Duke Energy Performing Arts Center in Raleigh, North Carolina, with hosts Jim Lauderdale and Del McCoury.

Mike Auldridge, Bill Emerson, and the Kentucky Colonels have also been named as inductees into the Bluegrass Hall of Fame.

Distinguished Achievement Award recipients include radio personality Katy Daley, Mountain Home label founder Mickey Gamble, former IBMA executive director Dan Hays, The Lost and Found founder Allen Mills, and Japanese language magazine Moonshiner, now in its 37th year covering bluegrass and acoustic music.

The full ballot is below.

ENTERTAINER OF THE YEAR

Balsam Range
Sam Bush Band
The Earls of Leicester
Del McCoury Band
Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers

VOCAL GROUP OF THE YEAR

Balsam Range
I’m With Her
Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver
Russell Moore & IIIrd Tyme Out
Sister Sadie

INSTRUMENTAL GROUP OF THE YEAR

Sam Bush Band
Michael Cleveland & Flamekeeper
The Earls of Leicester
Ricky Skaggs & Kentucky Thunder
The Travelin’ McCourys

NEW ARTIST OF THE YEAR

Appalachian Road Show
Carolina Blue
High Fidelity
Mile Twelve
Billy Strings

SONG OF THE YEAR (7 nominees, due to a tie)

“Dance, Dance, Dance”
Artist: Appalachian Road Show
Writers: Brenda Cooper/Joseph Cooper/Steve Miller
Producers: Barry Abernathy, Darrell Webb, Ben Isaacs
Executive Producer: Dottie Leonard Miller
Label: Billy Blue Records

“The Girl Who Invented the Wheel”
Artist: Balsam Range
Writers: Adam Wright/Shannon Wright
Producer: Balsam Range
Executive Producer: Mickey Gamble
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

“The Guitar Song”
Artist: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers with Del McCoury
Writers: Bill Anderson/Jamey Johnson/Vicky McGehee
Producer: Joe Mullins
Associate Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

“The Light in Carter Stanley’s Eyes”
Artist: Peter Rowan
Writer: Peter Rowan
Producer: Peter Rowan
Associate Producer: Tim O’Brien
Label: Rebel Records

“Next Train South”
Artist: The Po’ Ramblin’ Boys
Writer: Mac Patterson
Producers: The Po’ Ramblin’ Boys, Dave Maggard, Ken Irwin
Label: Rounder Records

“Take the Journey”
Artist: Molly Tuttle
Writers: Molly Tuttle/Sarah Siskind
Producer: Ryan Hewitt
Label: Compass Records

“Thunder Dan”
Artist: Sideline
Writer: Josh Manning
Producer: Tim Surrett
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

ALBUM OF THE YEAR

City on a Hill
Artist: Mile Twelve
Producer: Bryan Sutton
Label: Independent

Del McCoury Still Sings Bluegrass
Artist: Del McCoury Band
Producers: Del and Ronnie McCoury
Label: McCoury Music

For the Record
Artist: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers
Producer: Joe Mullins
Associate Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

I Hear Bluegrass Calling Me
Artist: Carolina Blue
Producers: Bobby Powell, Tim and Lakin Jones
Executive Producers: Lonnie Lassiter and Ethan Burkhardt
Label: Pinecastle Records

Sister Sadie II
Artist: Sister Sadie
Producer: Sister Sadie
Label: Pinecastle Records

GOSPEL RECORDING OF THE YEAR

“Acres of Diamonds”
Artist: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers
Producer: Joe Mullins
Associate Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

“Gonna Sing, Gonna Shout”
Artist: Claire Lynch
Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

“I Am a Pilgrim”
Artist: Roland White and Friends
Producers: Ty Gilpin, Jon Weisberger
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

“I See God”
Artist: Marty Raybon
Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

“Let My Life Be a Light”
Artist: Balsam Range
Producer: Balsam Range
Executive Producer: Mickey Gamble
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

INSTRUMENTAL RECORDING OF THE YEAR

“Cotton Eyed Joe”
Artist: Sideline
Producer: Tim Surrett
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

“Darlin’ Pal(s) of Mine”
Artist: Missy Raines with Alison Brown, Mike Bub, and Todd Phillips
Producer: Alison Brown
Label: Compass Records

“Earl’s Breakdown”
Artist: The Earls of Leicester
Producer: Jerry Douglas
Label: Rounder Records

“Fried Taters and Onions”
Artist: Carolina Blue
Producers: Bobby Powell, Tim and Lakin Jones
Executive Producers: Lonnie Lassiter and Ethan Burkhardt
Label: Pinecastle Records

“Sunrise”
Artist: Sam Bush & Bela Fleck
Producers: Akira Otsuka, Ronnie Freeland
Label: Smithsonian Folkways Records

COLLABORATIVE RECORDING OF THE YEAR

“Burning Georgia Down”
Artist: Balsam Range with Atlanta Pops Orchestra Ensemble
Producer: Balsam Range
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

“Darlin’ Pal(s) of Mine”
Artist: Missy Raines with Alison Brown, Mike Bub, and Todd Phillips
Producer: Alison Brown
Label: Compass Records

“The Guitar Song”
Artist: Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers with Del McCoury
Producer: Joe Mullins
Associate Producer: Jerry Salley
Label: Billy Blue Records

“Please”
Artist: Rhonda Vincent and Dolly Parton
Producers: Dave Cobb, John Leventhal, Frank Liddell
Label: MCA Nashville

“Soldier’s Joy/Ragtime Annie”
Artist: Roland White with Justin Hiltner, Jon Weisberger, Patrick McAvinue, and Molly Tuttle
Producers: Ty Gilpin, Jon Weisberger
Label: Mountain Home Music Company

MALE VOCALIST OF THE YEAR

Shawn Camp
Del McCoury
Russell Moore
Tim O’Brien
Danny Paisley

FEMALE VOCALIST

Brooke Aldridge
Dale Ann Bradley
Sierra Hull
Molly Tuttle
Rhonda Vincent

BANJO PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Gina Furtado
Mike Munford
Noam Pikelny
Kristin Scott Benson
Scott Vestal

BASS PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Barry Bales
Mike Bub
Beth Lawrence
Missy Raines
Mark Schatz

FIDDLE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Hunter Berry
Becky Buller
Jason Carter
Michael Cleveland
Stuart Duncan

RESOPHONIC GUITAR PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Jerry Douglas
Andy Hall
Rob Ickes
Phil Leadbetter
Justin Moses

GUITAR PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Kenny Smith
Billy Strings
Bryan Sutton
Molly Tuttle
Josh Williams

MANDOLIN PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Alan Bibey
Sam Bush
Sierra Hull
Ronnie McCoury
Frank Solivan

Béla Fleck and the Flecktones Forge Their Own Path

What’s on Béla Fleck’s mind?

Balloons.

Just the day before, his Nashville house was filled with them, as well as with a few dozen kids. It was the 6th birthday of the eldest of two children of the three-finger-style banjo maestro and his clawhammer-style counterpart, frequent recording and touring partner and wife Abigail Washburn.

But the days surrounding this have also had a party vibe. He’s been in rehearsals with his cohorts in the beloved jazz-and-way-beyond Flecktones, in preparation for a tour marking the band’s 30th birthday.

Working again with harmonica player/pianist Howard Levy, bassist Victor Wooten, and the singular electro-acoustic percussionist known as Futureman (a.k.a. Wooten’s brother Roy), digging deep into their group catalog of complex flights of fancy mixing daredevil chops, musical depth, and persistent whimsy has been a blast.

“They’re the same guys they were when I first met them,” he says, speaking from home. “Curious, interested, ever-expanding, ever-pulling me with them. There’s a very special bond we have together. I’m realizing it more and more as years go by, one of the great relationships in our lives, musically and personally.”

They’re even pulling out such rarely played and decidedly difficult gems as “Jekyll and Hyde (and Ted and Alice)” from the band’s second album, 1991’s Flight of the Cosmic Hippo. It’s challenging and exciting, enlivening the qualities that made this alchemical combo of characters special from the very start. Futureman, he says, is an “empath and enabler — musical enabler, brings consciousness underneath you.” Victor Wooten too. Levy is “the crazy ideas on top. He’s the brains of the outfit.”

Fleck’s role? “Somehow I thought I was the heart of it, limiting it but making it more understandable for the common man — I was the common man in the band, surrounded by these crazy guys.”

But with a moment to reflect on their collective history and achievements, he finds descriptions of the magic they work together to be elusive.

This is where the balloons come in.

“It has to have heart, has to have melodies, some harmonies,” says Fleck, who turns 61 in July. “Couldn’t just be a groove or a shred-fest. That’s the power of the band. The tunes are strong, good things to pour everyone’s musical power into. Like a balloon. It’s an empty piece of rubber. But these tunes I’d written, we filled them up with Futureman and Victor and Howard — the balloons get real handsome. With the balloons at the party, it occurred to me that you fill them up and they become joyful. That’s what this music is.”

They’ll be sharing that joy on the road now, including two shows of particular import. This 30th anniversary tour began with a big “Friends and Family” kickoff May 30 at Red Rocks near Denver, the friends and family here including Washburn, saxophonist Jeff Coffin, Dobro genius Jerry Douglas, and the Colorado Symphony. And on June 8 they will be taking a cherished headlining slot at the Hollywood Bowl’s vaunted Playboy Jazz Festival.

The Playboy slot is, to Fleck, a particularly meaningful recognition.

“It’s one of the neat things to being around 30 years,” he says of that booking. “From the start I was begging to play it and they said, ‘Yeah, we’ll put you on at noon’ and we’d play once every four years or so. Now we’re in the headlining slot and we’re legacy artists.”

Sure, the Flecktones have had several albums go to the top of the jazz sales and airplay charts and they have won two Grammy Awards for contemporary jazz album, with Outbound in 2000 and The Hidden Lands in 2006. And last year the band was given the prestigious Miles Davis Award by the Montreal International Jazz Festival. And Fleck has found himself partnering regularly on recordings and tours with some of the greats of jazz, one in particular in an ongoing partnership. “I’m playing with Chick Corea, which is ridiculous, on a regular basis,” he marvels, having just returned home from a tour with the ceaselessly groundbreaking pianist.

But, while belated acceptance in the jazz world is frustrating, he understands. See, banjo is pretty much standard in any jazz band… in 1919. In 2019, not so much. Even after 30 years of forging a path for banjo in modern jazz, Fleck remains singular. Asked about others doing anything comparable today, he’s kinda stumped.

He cites New Orleans’ veteran Don Vappie, but he’s generally in the mode of traditions going back to those earliest years of jazz. There’s Matt Davis, a converted jazz pianist who’s on the faculty of the University of Michigan. And there are others who use some jazz chops and sensibilities while not strictly playing that style of music, notably Tony Trischka, Noam Pikelny, Alison Brown, and Pat Cloud.

“But yeah,” he says. “They’re rare.”

Not to mention that the Flecktones as a whole is anything but standard jazz, with a truly eccentric approach and reach into a lot of styles. The 3-CD Little Worlds set from 2003 showed a boundless range that felt to some at once excitingly delightful and confounding.

On the other hand, not fitting in any category is par for the course for Fleck. He’s made a career of it, holding the record for the most categories in which he has been nominated for Grammys, 16 total. The most recent win is a best folk album trophy in 2016 for Béla Fleck & Abigail Washburn.

He’s a charter member, he quips, of the “Modern American Attention Deficit Disorder Musicians.” There are really only two others he’d put in that association: Jerry Douglas (whose fusiony Jerry Douglas Band may be the only thing out there comparable to the Flecktones) and Chris Thile (who’s resumé runs from Nickel Creek to ongoing collaborations with classical cellist Yo-Yo Ma and jazz pianist Brad Mehldau).

There’s one side of his musical hexadecagon he’s underserved for a while now, though. Ironically, it’s the one that first brought him fame when he emerged as a precocious New York City musician in the ‘70s and ‘80s.

“On the bluegrass side, people go, ‘Whatever happened to Béla Fleck? He could have been a great bluegrass player.’” he says. “Someone told me he had heard that. That was when I was at the top of my game, selling out stadiums with the Flecktones on tour with the Dave Matthews Band.”

Well, it has been 20 years since his last true bluegrass album, the on-point-titled The Bluegrass Sessions. And the one before that, the breakthrough Drive, came in 1988, a year before the Flecktones genesis. Well, as it happens, Fleck has a new bluegrass album in the works with a cast of musicians including such longtime buddies as Douglas, mandolinist Sam Bush, Jerry Douglas, bassist Mark Schatz and fiddler Stuart Duncan (all of whom were on the 1988 album) and a mix of fellow veteran stars (bassist Meyer, mandolinists David Grisman and Chris Thile) and relative newcomers (fiddlers Billy Contreras and Michael Cleveland, mandolinist Dominick Leslie, and guitarist Cody Kilby).

The timing? Just seemed right, he says.

“Now the years have gone by and I didn’t have a place for bluegrass to fit in,” he says. “But I had these tunes burning a hole in my pocket and thought I would really love to have a place for them. These sessions have been a knockout. These are hard tunes. And we’re having a blast. It’s as good as I’d hoped.”

The results will be out sometime next year. But first there’s this Flecktones balloon to float.

“One thing I will guarantee you is you will never hear anything else like it,” he says. “There is nothing else like the Flecktones in the world. I promise that. And I am very proud that were are that, and that we are back together.”

Dale Ann Bradley Hears the Truth in ‘The Hard Way’

Dale Ann Bradley has made a lasting impression with bluegrass listeners as a solo artist, as well as a member of the all-female band Sister Sadie. And before that, she recorded and performed with the New Coon Creek Girls in Renfro Valley, Kentucky, where she established a foundation that would carry to her multiple performances on the Grand Ole Opry and five IBMA awards in the female vocalist category.

An approachable artist who describes her audiences as “my people,” Bradley is quick to admit that her musical path hasn’t always been easy – in fact, her new album is named The Hard Way, a nod to the Jim Croce song she covers, “The Hard Way Every Time.” But in spite of that title, it’s a beautifully subdued project that stands among the most satisfying of the Kentucky native’s long career. That’s as much due to her gentle singing as her gift for finding songs that suit her.

Bradley invited the Bluegrass Situation to chat prior to a Nashville show earlier this month at the Station Inn.

BGS: I wanted to start by asking about the production on this record, because to me it sounds very crisp. It seems like there’s a “less is more” approach.

Bradley: It is. I have learned, on some things, that’s the correct approach. This one’s more guitar-oriented than a lot of them I’ve done – since [1997’s] East Kentucky Morning. Because I had such good guitarists play, it really didn’t need to be souped up. And the lyrics are so story-telling that the song, and the great musicians that I had, found their own way and their own place to be. … This is the third one I’ve produced and I’m always scared to death! I never take that for granted because it’s just like painting a picture or having a young’un! [Laughs] You don’t know what’s going to happen.

What is it about production that makes you want to keep coming back into that role?

If I want to try something, to able to do it. Even though I know that sometimes it works and sometimes it don’t. I have the utmost respect for any producer that I’ve had because I’ve had the best there is. … From Sonny Osborne, I learned that a good performance is a lot better than everything being technically perfect. He drilled that into my head – it’s all about emotion. With Tim Austin, I learned drive and punch with the guitar, and he helped me a lot with my guitar playing. And with Alison Brown, I learned not to be afraid of creativity. Put it down, and if it works, it works. And if it don’t, then you’ll know not to do it the next time. She’s so creative. I’ve worked with three different producers with three different outlooks, and learned from all of them.

“The Hard Way Every Time” is a beautiful song, with a lot of truth in there.

It is for me. The generation that I come from, we’re all at that point where we’re looking back, and we think, “Well, I sure did that the hard way.” Kept doing it and kept doing it. I hope it reaches a young generation. It seems to be, but I think there’s something in there hopefully for everybody.

How do you find the songs you want to record?

All the memories… I may not be able to recall what I had for lunch or breakfast, but a song will stay with me. Songs that have been poignant in my life have been so much so that I’m never going to forget them. I don’t cut cover tunes just to be different. I do it because it shows how talented these musicians are. … And I want to show that in music it doesn’t really matter what genre it is. If it really breaks your heart or makes you happy, it’s all good. Then there are songs that I want to do in the bluegrass style because I didn’t want to do them in the other style.

I’ve often thought that there might not be any song that’s off limits for you. Is that true?

Well, it was close this time. I’ve never been as scared as I was with “Wheel in the Sky.” I really belabored it. Everybody was saying, “Let’s cut it,” but what do you do after Steve Perry’s cut something? Or Journey’s played it, you know? Then I got to looking at it some more. That was probably the last song that I picked. And I got to listening to those lyrics, and I thought, Bill Monroe would have wrote that: “Winter’s here again, O Lord…”

And I’ve done that with other songs, like “Summer Breeze.” The lyrics are just about life and emotions, and it’s important to me. I love novelty, funny little songs but I just really like the ones that have a message, or maybe leave one.

How did the guitar come to be your instrument?

It was probably going to be the only one that I had any possibility of getting. I would have loved to have had a banjo and mandolin, but I finally got a little ol’ cardboard, classical-style guitar that somebody ordered from a catalog. I knew I might get that one if I pressed enough. If I pressed too hard, I wasn’t going to get nothing! But I had a love for it. And still do.

I never was around anybody that played, is the thing. I had a friend who was my age, and we wrote songs together. He was very talented and he didn’t play bluegrass-style. He was a Jim Croce fan, so he would play that and I was so mesmerized, but that was the only guitar influence I had until I came to Renfro Valley. They were all seasoned Central Kentucky musicians and I learned so much from them.

You were at Renfro Valley for years, and then you became a bandleader. What do you remember most about that time? What was that transition like for you?

It was a transition that had to take place, before I would have ever gotten out of the community I was from. I learned a lot about the history. I learned Bradley Kincaid songs and who Bradley Kincaid was, and how Renfro Valley is such a treasure. I loved it and I got to perform country and gospel. I started singing traditional country there, and then the entertainment director would let me do traditional bluegrass songs with the country band. And that worked out good.

When that position with the Coon Creek Girls came open, I was tickled to death to get that. … Renfro Valley is in “The Hard Way Every Time.” Major, maybe over 50 percent! [Laughs] But I learned, and I’m thankful now that I learned those hard life lessons with good people that had hearts. I was thrilled to work there. The talent there in the late ‘80s and ‘90s – I’m telling you, it was as good as you’d hear anywhere.

And then you decided you wanted to be in front, and go on tour?

Well, what happened was, the Coon Creek Girls had been together for years and everybody got married and had babies. I still didn’t want to step completely out, so we called it Dale Ann Bradley and Coon Creek. And then things changed from there, and I signed with Compass, and then it grew its way into me totally being responsible. [Laughs] Good, bad, and indifferent!

What is some of the best business advice you’ve ever gotten.

[Laughs] Don’t spend your money! Cut corners, but not so much where you make somebody uncomfortable. But when you can, cut corners. Don’t buy what you can’t pay for. And work hard. Respect your money. I had to learn that the hard way, too — that’s the other 50 percent of The Hard Way!

Who would you say are some of your heroes?

Oh, Dolly Parton of course. I loved John Duffey and John Starling. What got me really hooked on bluegrass was that I’d hear Ralph Stanley and Bill Monroe on the radio — and Lester and Earl on The Beverly Hillbillies when I got to see that. Dolly was a hero, and the Seldom Scene, The Country Gentlemen, Charlie Waller, so many in the country field, too. Dolly could do anything. Bluegrass was naturally there, with her being 80 miles across the mountain from where I was from. And I loved Glen Campbell – he was another one that could do everything. So many that you can’t name.

So many of those artists you named have an incredible ear for a song.

They do, and it’s a gift that they can sing anything. And I adore Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, and Ray Charles. You can’t stay on this earth and get any better than that.

You’ve won some IBMA Awards, and Sister Sadie earned a Grammy nomination this year. I would imagine that aspiring musicians may look to you as a role model. Do you see yourself that way?

Well, I don’t feel that I’m even worthy enough to put myself up as a role model. But if they like this style of music, I want to be somebody that makes them unafraid to express themselves. And I’ve always tried to treat people as good as I can. In those two ways, I hope that I am. In other ways, everyone’s got to walk their own journey, you know?

The IBMA Awards now have women winning the instrumental categories. As a woman in bluegrass yourself, what does an accomplishment like that mean to you?

Well, obviously it’s good that the mindset has changed, in order to really study the female musicians because some of them are quite great. The thing that worries me a little bit is that I don’t want it to matter if it’s male or female, if you’re a good player. I know so many females who are wonderful players and I don’t think we should get it just because we’re women. Let’s get it on our playing and our accomplishments. I don’t get into that (mentality of) “you’ve got to let me play because I’m a girl!” [Laughs] I’ve never been thrown out of a jam session, but I ain’t been in too many either.

Do you see a difference from when you started until now?

Definitely. I see girls cutting their gig, is what I see. Learning. And playing and singing and writing. I do see a female presence strongly coming in there. There was a time of course, I know not so very long ago: “Well… girls can’t sing bluegrass.” Now that needed to go!

I’d like to see the festival scene open those doors more.

Yeah, they’ve moved up to about two girl acts. And I didn’t really realize that was the case, because in the ‘80s and ‘90s, the Coon Creek Girls were the girl act. [Laughs] And I thought, “We’re getting hired, what’s the problem?” “Well, you’re the only girls!” [Laughs]

Going back to the title of this record for a second, I know there’s a lot of hard work that goes into a career like yours. But what would you say is the reward in that?

Oh gosh. There’s been so many. The reward was that I was able to do it. I was able to sing from the very first venue until now. I got the opportunity to sing and to write and to express myself in a musical way. I’ve met the most precious angels — and a lot of musicians have. They’re angels themselves. So many good friends that have been so good and gracious and merciful to me. And along with that, it provided a way for me to support myself and my son. That’s the reward. That right there is everything.


Photo credit: Pinecastle Records

MIXTAPE: Wood & Wire’s Grammy-Nominated Faves

Welcome to our guide to The Grammys! You may (or may not) be surprised to learn that our musical tastes span far beyond the beautiful world of bluegrass music. Below you’ll find some of our favorite tracks from the Bluegrass category along with many other tracks from various nominees. This took us a while and was nearly impossible to narrow down. We could have easily made this list a lot longer. For now, enjoy some highlights and we’ll see you in L.A.! — Tony Kamel, Wood & Wire

(Editor’s Note: Wood & Wire’s
North of Despair is nominated for a Grammy in the Best Bluegrass Album category.)

The Travelin’ McCourys – “Southbound”

We’ve been fortunate to get to play some shows with these guys over the last few years. They’re great people and awesome bluegrass pickers but this album showcases their versatility beyond just bluegrass while remaining undeniably true to the bluegrass style.

Kacey Musgraves – “Slow Burn”

Kacey received four nominations, including Album of the Year, for her album Golden Hour. Whether you consider it country or not it doesn’t really matter. From front to back the album is absolutely flawless.

Kendrick Lamar & SZA – “All the Stars”

This song is so catchy and so good you’ll want to start it over again once it ends. It also has landed four nominations including Record of the Year.

Brandi Carlile – “The Joke”

A poignant and powerful song by an incredible singer/songwriter. Don’t stop with this song because the entire album is amazing.

Zedd, Maren Morris & Grey – “The Middle”

Are you someone who doesn’t listen to pop songs that much? Forget about all of that and give this song a listen. It’s a perfect pop song.

Marcus Miller: “Trip Trap”

Bassist Marcus Miller is the Boss, the GOAT and a very bad boy. His unbelievable album Laid Black (up for best Contemporary Instrumental Album) is Marcus in peak form, start to finish. Don’t take our word for it, listen to the opening (live) track “Trip Trap.” You’ll find that Marcus is talking to you on that bass. Turn it up.

Mike Barnett: “Mary and the Soldier”

When we saw this title on Mike’s album, we were eager to listen to his interpretation. His fiddle playing is so tasteful, and his arrangement is so musical, we truly feel that the purity and passion of this traditional music has been understood, matched and advanced. And who better to sing than Tim O’Brien? Mike joins us in the Best Bluegrass Album category with his record, Portraits in Fiddles.

Margo Price (Feat. Willie Nelson) – “Learning to Lose”

By now, you all know who Margo Price is. It’s funny that she’s up for Best New Artist considering how long she’s been doing her thing–and what a wonderful thing it is. Willie Nelson is also up for a few and we figured it would be nice to share this beautiful song they recorded together, featuring a classic Willie guitar solo on his beloved classical guitar Trigger.

Julian Lage – “Splendor Riot”

Known for his guitar chops and background in jazz this album is truly unique. At times country or R&B it also sometimes sounds like a rockin’ indie album…Only instrumental.

Childish Gambino – “This is America”

The song alone is a monumental work and a powerful commentary on American society. It is also nominated for best music video for a good reason. Go watch the video.

Cedric Burnside – “Death Bell Blues”

Start to finish, this record is incredible. This guy has channeled some of the absolute greats in his delivery and recording style, including his father (blues drummer Calvin Jackson) and grandfather (the great R.L. Burnside). But make no mistake, Cedric has his own groove and own style. Benton County Relic is up for Best Traditional Blues Record and man it’s a doozie.

Special Consensus (w/ 10 String Symphony, Alison Brown, & John Hartford) – “Squirrel Hunters”

Greg Cahill and crew really crafted a gem of a record with Rivers & Roads. It’s chock full of some of the best playing we’ve heard. However, it’s hard to resist choosing this version of one of our favorite fiddle tunes, in which the band (plus our friends Rachel Baiman & Christian Sedlemeyer, as well as Alison Brown) built the recording around a previously unreleased track of our one of our favorite musicians of all time, John Hartford. Just awesome to hear it brought to life this way.

Sister Sadie – “Raleigh’s Ride”

Aside from being amazing singers, these ladies sure can pick. This is one kick-ass instrumental! We’re thrilled to share this category with them.

Los Texmaniacs – “Mexico Americano”

Shout out to some of our fellow Austinites. This heartfelt song speaks for itself. Their record Cruzando Brothers is up for Best Regional Mexican Music Album and it’s awesome.

Lady Gaga – “Shallow”

Not much to say here. We love Lady Gaga. Quite the vocal performance.

Brad Mehldau Trio – “De-Dah”

This trio has achieved acclaim in the jazz world and beyond for their compositions and performances. Though Brad himself is nominated for his solo on this song the band is jammin’ right there with him the entire time.

Punch Brothers – “All Ashore”

Of course Punch Brothers are amazing musicians but what’s more impressive is their limitless ability to take the bluegrass quintet to new realms.

Post Malone – “Psycho”

Post Malone grew up in Grapevine, Texas, and released his first major hit on SoundCloud. This is his second album which showcases his vast blending of musical styles and influences.

Others that we love: Mary Gauthier, Loretta Lynn, John Prine, Fantastic Negrito, Travis Scott, St. Vincent, Loretta Lynn, Leon Bridges, The Wood Brothers… so, so many more.

John Jorgenson Revisits His Southern California Bluegrass Roots

John Jorgenson is not only a man of many talents, he’s a musician with many interests. Perhaps you’ve heard his gypsy jazz, or remember when the Desert Rose Band — a neo-trad country group that included Jorgenson, Chris Hillman and other luminaries of the California country and country-rock scene — was riding high at radio, or perhaps you saw him playing an indispensable role in Elton John’s touring band. As Jim Reeves might have put it, he’s done a lot in his time.

Even so, you might not know that John Jorgenson is also a bluegrass guy — unless, that is, you saw him on the road with Earl Scruggs during the legend’s final touring years, or happened to buy his 2015 box set, Divertuoso, which included a disc of bluegrass alongside one of gypsy jazz and another of eclectic, electric music. Earlier this year, that disc was issued as a standalone album, From the Crow’s Nest. Featuring the regular (and equally eclectic) members of the John Jorgenson Bluegrass Band (J2B2) — Herb Pedersen, Mark Fain and Jon Randall — it’s a delicious collection that scatters well-known songs (Pedersen’s “Wait a Minute”; Randall’s “Whiskey Lullaby” co-write; and the Dillards’ “There Is a Time”) among a trove of newer material, much of it written or co-written by Jorgenson.

From the Crow’s Nest ought to go some distance in alerting wider audiences to a new standard-bearer for a style of bluegrass that, while its roots trace back to the early 1950s, hasn’t gotten the attention it deserves. Though Southern California is a long way from the Grand Ole Opry and other spawning grounds for the original bluegrass sound, it served in the post-World War II years as a magnet for job seekers from both sides of the Mississippi River, and that meant bluegrass pickers, too — and so, when we met up, that made for a good starting point for our conversation.

Listening to your album reminds me that you are a product of a Southern California roots music scene that included bluegrass from early on. How did you get exposed to it?

Probably the first time was when a band came to my high school and I thought they were from another planet, because I’d never heard anything so fast in my life. I played music already — I played classical music, and rock — but that was sort of an anomaly, and then I didn’t really see it again for a while.

I came to it sort of in a backwards way. I had a scholarship to the Aspen Music Festival. They brought me in as a jazz bass player; they wanted to start a jazz program. And I accepted the scholarship as long as I could also be in their classical program, playing the bassoon. Well, I had my tuition paid for, and my room paid for, but I didn’t have money for meals. So I needed to figure out how to make some money, and then I saw an ad that said: Wanted: strict jazz player for immediate gigs. So I checked out an upright bass from the school and went to this audition. And they weren’t playing jazz — what they were playing was David Grisman’s first album. This was the summer of 1978, so this album was new. I’d never heard it.

So they’re playing all instrumental stuff and I thought, OK, I really like the sound, especially of that mandolin. I liked the flatpicking guitar, too. I was already a guitar player, but I just loved the mandolin. When I got home that summer, my neighbors had a Gibson A model and I borrowed it. Not too long after that, I ran into a friend who had been instructed to put together a band that could play bluegrass and Dixieland to cover two different areas of Disneyland. And he asked, “Hey, do you know anybody that could play bluegrass fiddle and Dixieland cornet?” And needing a job at the time, I said, “I can play mandolin and clarinet.”

And then I kind of learned backwards, whatever I could. I learned from New Grass Revival, and then Bill Monroe, and Flatt & Scruggs, and the Stanley Brothers, and the Osborne Brothers. And all the others — Tony Rice, Sam Bush, the Bluegrass Cardinals, whoever was playing around at the time. Larry Stephenson was playing with the Cardinals at that time, and I remember I was — I don’t want to say shy, but I’m shy around people I don’t know. And to me at the time, they were real bluegrass musicians and I was a pretender. I sort of felt an attitude from some people, too, but he was not like that at all. He was really friendly.

Did playing bluegrass at Disneyland motivate you to build connections with the larger bluegrass scene, or was it a standalone kind of gig?

Actually, when we first started, we were terrible! We learned three songs and then we’d play those, move to a different place and play them again. But everyone was ambitious, so we all practiced; we learned songs, we got better. And then we started to play out around Los Angeles. I think the first time we played out as an act, we opened for Jim & Jesse at McCabe’s [Guitar Shop]. There was also a venue called the Banjo Cafe, with bluegrass every night, on Lincoln [Boulevard] in Santa Monica. So the Cardinals played there; Berline, Hickman & Crary would play there; and touring acts, too — Ralph Stanley would play there. And a young Alison Brown, a young Stuart Duncan.

I know that there are a lot fans of Desert Rose Band among bluegrassers, and some gypsy jazz fans, too, but for a lot of people, you came onto the radar when you were going places with Earl Scruggs — 15 years ago, maybe? How’d that come about?

Actually, it was because of Brad Davis. He was playing with Earl, and we were kind of guitar geek friends. We ended up sitting next to each other on a plane one time, and were chatting, and he said, “I’m playing with Earl Scruggs,” and I said, “I’d love to do that.” He said, “You know, they like to have an electric guitar, maybe there might be a spot.” He really set that up for me.

I said, “OK, I’m happy to play electric guitar, but I would really love to play the mandolin.” So I would bring both, and if I played too much mandolin, Louise [Scruggs] would say, “John, don’t forget that electric guitar.” Then they said, “Don’t you play saxophone? We used to have that on a song called ‘Step It Up and Go.’” So I said, “What about the clarinet? It’s not quite so loud.” And as it turns out, Earl said his favorite musician was Pete Fountain, and he loved the clarinet. So every time after that, Gary Scruggs would call me up: “Dad says don’t forget the moneymaker.”

The J2B2 record was originally part of a box set — a disc of gypsy jazz, one of bluegrass, one of electric stuff. So you have these different musical itches, and some musicians would choose to try to synthesize these things into something new and different and unique, but you seem to have an interest in keeping them each their own thing. Why is that?

It’s because, to me, the things that I love about bluegrass are what make it bluegrass. I love the trio harmony, I love these instruments, the way each instrument functions in the band. And I love gypsy jazz, and some folks might say they’re closely related — they’re string band music, they both have acoustic bass and fiddle and acoustic guitar, and each instrument has a role. There are a lot of similarities, but the things that I like about each one are what make them different. I think each music has an accent, and a history and a perspective, and I really want to be true to those, because those are the elements that touch my heart.

I feel like what I do and what this group does is quite traditional, compared to a lot of people. It’s not jamgrass. It’s not Americana. It’s bluegrass. There are folk elements, and all those other things, of course. But really, my touchstones for that style of music are all the classics: the trio harmonies of the Osborne Brothers, and the slightly softer Seldom Scene and Country Gentlemen sounds, the early Dillards, the Country Gazette, and the whole Southern California sound… you don’t think of Tony Rice’s roots as Southern California, but they are.

And probably at one point, if I could have sounded like I was from Kentucky, I wouldn’t have minded that. But at the end of the day, well, I love Bill Monroe as much as the next guy, and I’m going to take inspiration, but I feel like I’m part of a lineage of bluegrass that’s just as viable as any other, and why not have that sound be a part of me?


Photo credit: Mike Melnyk

IBMA Awards 2018: Read the Full Winners List

Some of the most decorated artists in bluegrass, such as Balsam Range, Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver, and the Travelin’ McCourys, picked up even more International Bluegrass Music Awards on Thursday night (Sept. 27) in Raleigh, North Carolina. Other top winners included longtime favorites like Joe Mullins & the Radio Ramblers, Special Consensus, and Becky Buller.

Instrumentalist awards were presented to Michael Cleveland (fiddle), Sierra Hull (mandolin), Justin Moses (Dobro), Ned Luberecki (banjo), Tim Surrett (bass) and Molly Tuttle (guitar). Hot Rize, the IBMA’s first-ever Entertainer of the Year recipient in 1990, hosted the show.

The recipients of the 2018 IBMA Awards, presented by the International Bluegrass Music Association, are listed below:

ENTERTAINER OF THE YEAR:
Balsam Range

VOCAL GROUP OF THE YEAR:
Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver

INSTRUMENTAL GROUP OF THE YEAR:
The Travelin’ McCourys

SONG OF THE YEAR:
“If I’d Have Wrote That Song” – Joe Mullins & The Radio Ramblers (artist), Larry Cordle/Larry Shell/James Silvers (writers)

ALBUM OF THE YEAR:
Rivers & Roads – Special Consensus (artist), Alison Brown (producer), Compass Records (label)

GOSPEL RECORDED PERFORMANCE OF A YEAR:https://thebluegrasssituation.com/?p=10924&preview=true
“Speakin’ to That Mountain” – Becky Buller (artist), Becky Buller/Jeff Hyde (writers), Crepe Paper Heart (album), Stephen Mougin (producer), Dark Shadow Recording (label)

INSTRUMENTAL RECORDED PERFORMANCE:
“Squirrel Hunters” – Special Consensus with John Hartford, Rachel Baiman, Christian Sedelmyer, and Alison Brown (artist), Traditional arranged by Alison Brown/Special Consensus (writers), Rivers & Roads (album), Alison Brown (producer), Compass Records (label)

EMERGING ARTIST OF THE YEAR:
The Po’ Ramblin’ Boys

RECORDED EVENT OF THE YEAR:
“Swept Away” – Missy Raines with Alison Brown, Becky Buller, Sierra Hull, and Molly Tuttle (artists), single release, Alison Brown (producer), Compass Records (label)

FEMALE VOCALIST OF THE YEAR:
Brooke Aldridge

MALE VOCALIST OF THE YEAR:
Buddy Melton

BANJO PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Ned Luberecki

BASS PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Tim Surrett

DOBRO PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Justin Moses

FIDDLE PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Michael Cleveland

GUITAR PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Molly Tuttle

MANDOLIN PLAYER OF THE YEAR:
Sierra Hull

Previously-announced inductees into the International Bluegrass Music Hall of Fame – Ricky Skaggs, Paul Williams, Tom T. and Dixie Hall – were honored at this evening’s show.

At the Special Awards Luncheon earlier in the day, the recipients of the following awards were announced:

BLUEGRASS BROADCASTER OF THE YEAR:
Steve Martin (Northern Kentucky-based host of Steve Martin’s Unreal Bluegrass)

BLUEGRASS EVENT OF THE YEAR:
Bluegrass on the Green; Frankfort, Illinois

BEST LINER NOTES FOR A RECORDED PROJECT (tie):
Craig Havighurst – The Story We Tell by Joe Mullins & The Radio Ramblers
Peter Wernick – Carter Stanley’s Eyes by Peter Rowan

BEST GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR A RECORDED PROJECT:
Lou Everhart
A Heart Never Knows by The Price Sisters

BLUEGRASS PRINT/MEDIA PERSON OF THE YEAR:
Neil Rosenberg

BLUEGRASS SONGWRITER OF THE YEAR:
Jerry Salley

SOUND ENGINEER OF THE YEAR:
Ben Surratt

Special Consensus, ‘Squirrel Hunters’

There’s a phenomenon that certain bluegrass instrumentals experience when, for however brief or extended a time, you hear them almost everywhere played by almost everyone. Tunes like the key-of-B barnburner “Rebecca,” or John Reischman’s “Salt Spring,” or David Grier’s legendary reharmonization of “Angeline the Baker” come to mind. Whether during a lap of your favorite festival’s campground jams or wandering the halls of the IBMA World of Bluegrass host hotel, while each of these numbers enjoyed their respective heydays, you could hear them emanating from almost every single circle of pickers. The old-time tune “Squirrel Hunters” hasn’t just been relegated to one single moment; it’s a pickin’ marvel unto itself. Old-time, mash, straight-ahead bluegrass, jamgrass — they all claim “Squirrel Hunters.”

In this host of renditions, one by Chicago-based bluegrass outfit Special Consensus stands out. Not only because John Hartford’s buzzy baritone introduces the track (as if to remind us that “Squirrel Hunters’” moment has been decades and decades long), but because the entire ensemble artfully reimagines a tune that could much more easily be found stale and tired. Rachel Baiman and Christian Sedelmeyer, the fiddley duo 10 String Symphony, kick off the song alongside Hartford’s fiddle, making a technological cameo. The band jumps into a bushy-tailed clip with another guest — the album’s producer, Alison Brown — on a low-tuned banjo (continuing the nods to Hartford), playing call and response, her postmodern five-string against Greg Cahill’s traditional-while-psychedelic approach. A round of breaks, a melodic bass solo, and an epic rearrangement of the chord changes later, you’ll barely realize you’ve listened to a four-minute-long tune without even a hint of a yawn. And that, right there, is why this “Squirrel Hunters” moment goes on and on.

That Ain’t Bluegrass: Bobby Osborne

Artist: Bobby Osborne
Song: “They Called the Wind Maria” (originally from the 1951 Broadway musical, Paint Your Wagon)
Album: Original

Where did you first hear this song?

The first ones I ever heard do it were the Browns — Jim Ed and Maxine Brown. I kind of liked it then, but my brother and me didn’t want to cover it right then. It’s been a long time ago since I heard it. This project that Alison [Brown] came up with, with me and Compass Records, I thought about that song. My son and me were trying to get some songs together so we put it down on the list. The chord progression on it and the song itself, I’ve always really liked it. Of course, the Browns did a great job with the recording they had on it. I never did hear anybody else, maybe I didn’t listen, but I didn’t hear anybody else do it.

When I put it down on the list, Alison wrote me back, she said, “That was one that I wanted you to do!” [Laughs] So that turned out real good. Then I had to learn the thing, then. The melody and the harmony and all that on it. To me, it was just right down my alley.

What about the song made you think it would be such a great fit for bluegrass?

Well, it’s different from what most people would do, I think, in the story of it. A lot of people nowadays are doing arrangements like that, something similar to the way the melody and the harmony goes with that song. A lot of people are doing stuff that they didn’t do back when the Browns did it. If you went into a key that wasn’t just G, C, and D, you lost a lot of people, way back then. Nowadays, why, it’s not unusual at all.

My brother and me did some things — I don’t know if we were the first or not — but a lot of people in country music were doing that [sort of a thing]. But, as far as bluegrass goes, most of the time it was just plain Monroe-type music, Flatt & Scruggs, and the Stanley Brothers. A lot of folks didn’t go to those keys — what I always called it, the off-keys — with the melody of a song. My brother and I, we got tied in with that harmony we’d come up with and the endings that we had, everything just fit right into the melody of “Maria.” I was really familiar with that type of thing.

Fans might think, “He’s changed that around. I don’t like that kind of music.” But the song was written like that, so you can’t deny that. It fit us so good. Alison said it was always one of her favorite songs, too. Her being the producer, she asked me to do that, and it just tickled me to death. The more we worked with it, the better it got. It turned out to be a great recording.

You and your brother have always covered non-bluegrass songs throughout your career, and it’s kind of a tradition in bluegrass to take songs from outside the genre and repurpose them for bluegrass. Why do you think this is a tradition and why have you always made a point of recording these types of songs throughout your career?

You remember the song, “Once More”?

Yeah, of course!

We were doing just plain bluegrass, you know, Monroe-type and Flatt & Scruggs. Just G, C, D, bluegrass — three chords to it. Well, we were up in West Virginia, and a man up there by the name of Dusty Owens had a band and he had written that song, “Once More.” He had recorded it on a little label up there. He gave me one of the copies of it and, when I listened to it, I felt that would be a great thing for us to do with the harmony that we had. When we first recorded it for MGM Records, they were strictly [having us record] three-chord bluegrass.

I got the words to “Once More.” We had a couple hundred miles to drive home from Wheeling, and Red Allen was with us at the time — it was just three of us. We got to singing it just like we would normally do any other song, but there was just something missing with it. Of course, we were just doing regular harmony singing then. We had never featured a high lead on a thing in the world. My voice being the type that it was, it was made for high lead. We were just sitting in the car driving along. We didn’t have any instruments or nothing. We were just trying to learn the song. All of a sudden, I don’t know, I started singing the lead in a way-up-higher register. Red Allen was a tenor singer when he came to work with us, so he just started singing the tenor, but then it was the low part. My brother was good on the parts and chimed right in with the middle part and, boy, when we got to singing it like that, we knew right there we had run into some kind of harmony that we had never heard before. We had 200 miles to go and we sang that song all the way home so that we wouldn’t forget what we had learned. That’s how we came across that type of harmony.

When we went to Nashville to record again, we were dead set on putting that on a record, because that was brand new and it was different from Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, and all that. It was so different from anybody. Wesley Rose was the A&R guy for MGM at that time, so we approached him with that type of harmony, and he looked at us and said, “You can’t do that. That’s some other kind of music and harmony besides bluegrass.” We had a talk and talk and talk. He said, “You put something like that out after what you’ve already done, you’re liable to lose your recording contract.” We were so set on it we said, “We’ll just take a chance on it, if you don’t care.”

When we recorded it, we had been using everything regular bluegrass people used — fiddle, mandolin, guitar, banjo, and bass. We figured the snare drum was perfect with bluegrass. We went back to [Wesley] and said we wanted to add dobro and drop the fiddle. Well, he had a fit over that, too. We hesitated to mention that there was one thing we’d like to do with the rhythm on it, the snare drum, but just the brushes. The guy says, “You’re getting completely away from bluegrass!” Well, no. It’s just going to match our singing. We finally talked our way into him letting us do “Once More” just like the recording is now. He was not happy with that at all.

Well, we all know how that turned out!

[Laughs] Back then, I think it was on the top 40 country, I believe. It made number 15 or 16 on the charts. We never heard another word out of Wesley. [Laughs] That right there led us into going deeper and deeper into that kind of harmony. It became our trademark.

What’s your favorite thing about performing “They Called the Wind Maria”?

I kind of like the hesitation between each line, you know? I like that because we were kind of used to that kind of thing and changing from one key to another. That’s one of the main things that really took the song off with me. The hesitation between each set of two lines. Then the tune of it, the melody to the song. When we put the three parts to it, it really dressed it up and made it even different from what the Browns did.

Now you know that ain’t bluegrass, right?

Well, after what me and my brother have done, there’s not much we can say to argue with what anyone thought! [Laughs] People still ask us about it.

When we switched from MGM to Decca Records, Owen Bradley was the producer over there. He knew about us and he latched onto [what we were doing] in a hurry. He said, “Do what you want to do. You know more about what you want to do than I do.” We got a taste of country to go along with the bluegrass, and he went right along with us. It really worked out pretty good. When we were allowed to just do what we wanted to with the harmony, the instrumentation, and the lyrics to the songs, when we got into that, it became a standard thing for the Osborne Brothers. A lot of other people jumped on that type of harmony in a hurry. It became a standard thing about every one of them wanted to do.

I love that on your latest record, Original, you’re carrying on that tradition of doing songs that some people might not expect to be on a bluegrass record.

Oh yeah, that was a thing we knew [from the begining] with one playing the banjo and one playing the mandolin and singing [in the Osborne Brothers]. There’s no way we’d ever get away from the sound of bluegrass instruments. What we had in mind was to play those instruments and make them fit with what we were doing. We were putting bluegrass and country music right together, and people just loved it. Our harmony singing fit bluegrass and country music, both. In one sense of the phrase, we had it made right there.

Hangin’ & Sangin’: Old Salt Union

From the Bluegrass Situation and WMOT Roots Radio, it’s Hangin’ & Sangin’ with your host, BGS editor Kelly McCartney. Every week Hangin’ & Sangin’ offers up casual conversation and acoustic performances by some of your favorite roots artists. From bluegrass to folk, country, blues, and Americana, we stand at the intersection of modern roots music and old time traditions bringing you roots culture — redefined.

With me today at Hillbilly Central, Old Salt Union!

All: Hey!

John, Justin, Jesse, Rob, and Ryan.

Jesse Farrar: That’s right. That’s right.

Ryan Murphey: That’s a first!

Is it?

RM: People usually mix it around a little bit.

Heck no, I’m a professional here, guys. I do appreciate the alliteration of it all, so that is helpful.

JF: It’s like a sonnet!

So you guys have your latest record, it’s a self-titled release. Fourth release? Not fourth album, necessarily, but fourth release.

JF: Yeah it’s the fourth release, ‘cause we did a vinyl as well, a four-track vinyl. So, yeah, it’s our fourth release.

First on Compass Records.

JF: First on Compass Records, that’s right. And it’s self-titled as it’s kind of a culmination of all the stuff we’ve done prior. We reimagined it here in Hillbilly Central, and we rearranged it and re-recorded a lot of it, so it was kind of a “Best Of” if there ever was one.

Yeah, I was wondering about that, in terms of whether you felt like those older songs didn’t get a fair shake the first time around, or they had evolved some as you’ve played them over the years?

JF: Both really, yeah, I think we play 250 shows a year, so every night you’re trying to spice it up. Some things stick, some things don’t.

Alison Brown produced this one. You guys met her a few years back. So what is it about how she gets what you guys are doing? Is there something special about that?

JF: I just know from personal experience, she has such an open, creative mind and so, when you sit down with her at a table like we did, it’s really, really inspiring because you just bounce new ideas off of her and she doesn’t turn any ideas down. She’s open to explore. And I think artists, in general, sometimes don’t necessarily explore. Even if they don’t like an option or even if it’s not maybe their first option, they’ll kind of shut it down. But Alison’s very good at exploring these options, and not only that, but she has such a great ear and she’s such an amazing musician. So not only will she explore this idea, but she’ll find a way to make it really work.

Yeah, I was gonna say that, to me, the producers who are artists as well, because, this is actually quoting her, they’ve been on both sides of the glass, so they know how to extract a performance, they know how to take a song in a different direction instead of what’s brought.

Now you said you guys do 250 dates a year. … I think being road dogs is what develops a band and a fan base. Tell me where you started and the process and what that’s done both for the chemistry and the whole thing?

JF: Not to berate or bash anyone, necessarily, but we hit the ground running and we never really looked back. And I do agree. I come from kind of a musical family, so I saw these other guys in my family do that, which is, you just put your pedal to the floor and you just go. And that’s how you develop a sound, that’s how you develop a fanbase, that’s how you develop everything. And you see some bands skip that step. Whether they have financial backing or whatever, they kind of skip those hard times. I think those are vital to really find out who you are as individuals and as artists as a whole.

Other than pure sweat, what do you think it takes to rise above the fray in the world of string bands? Because there are a lot of dadgum string bands.

RM: There definitely are. I mean there’s the obvious that everybody tells you — persistence. I mean expecting to get knocked back, and you just have to keep pushing, keep chomping at the bit, keep continuing, progressing, and growing, and it’ll come.

JF: I think, musically speaking, there’s some people that kind of close off walls. They say, “Well, we’re a string band. We can’t go this direction. We can’t explore these ideas.” And that’s never been the case for us. I think the thing that maybe separates us is that we’re really open to anything. If John writes a song or Justin writes a song and it’s this crazy polka, we’re gonna explore it. I think that’s why working with Alison worked so good, as well, because we kind of had that same mindset. But, yeah, you’re right, there’s all sorts of string bands we run across every single night, a different breed, a different flavor. Yeah, persistence, and I think having fun and enjoying the music that you’re playing plays a big part. I think that translates to the audience members, sitting at home on a computer or at the venue.

There are a lot of different influences that you’re folding in here. But you had to start with a foundation of bluegrass, right? Or no?

RM: Kind of the opposite, almost. At the time we started, Justin had been playing mandolin for a few months, I had just bought a banjo, John was playing classical music, and Jess was pursuing his hip-hop career. [Laughs]

JF: Rob’s been in the band for over a year now. He’s the most recent member, but he probably came into it with the most bluegrass mindset, as far as pieces of the puzzle connecting. He kind of had a bluegrass mindset whereas I was doing hip-hop, alternative, classical, and I was a jazz major, and Rob was also a jazz major. So we had all these different things and we thought, “How can we take these instruments and let all of those genres kind of bleed into it?”

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