Artist:The Hillbilly Thomists Hometown: We are originally all from Washington, D.C., where we formed, though as priests we are now assigned in many different areas, mostly on the East Coast. Latest Album:Marigold
What other art forms – literature, film, dance, painting, etc. – inform your music?
Our band name is taken from a letter of the Southern Gothic artist, Flannery O’Connor, in which she says that some readers think that she is a Hillbilly nihilist, whereas in fact she is a Hillbilly Thomist. A “Thomist” is a follower of the thought of St. Thomas Aquinas, who was a Dominican priest. We are members of the same religious order and play folk and bluegrass music so the name seemed perfect. Flannery kept peacocks in her garden, as they are a medieval symbol of the resurrection, so that is the band symbol.
What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?
Actually, since we are members of a Catholic religious order, we have a lot of rituals. It’s an ordinary part of our life already to pray the psalms together, say mass together, and of course we keep that up when we are doing our music. It can also be important for some of the fans, many of whom like this Catholic bluegrass vibe, but many of our fans are not Catholic, and appreciate the fact that we wear monastic habits, including on stage. The lyrics of our songs can be humorous or serious, but often have a kind of reference to religious takes on life. We did not really plan this as a strategy, but just started composing music out of interest or as a serious hobby and it has been popular with others.
Genre is dead (long live genre!), but how would you describe the genres and styles your music inhabits?
The band has a lot of styles and definitely assimilates different genres: folk, Americana, bluegrass, country, blues, gospel, and old-time material. Several different members of the band write songs, different in style, and we almost all sing, with pretty complex harmonies at times. Influences include Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, The Byrds, Ricky Skaggs, Gillian Welch, but each of these more according to the spirit than the letter.
What is a genre, album, artist, musician, or song that you adore that would surprise people?
We agree on the value of reggae and jazz and during breaks the band sometimes plays Bob Marley for amusement.
If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?
We actually all have full time jobs, mostly as priests teaching or working in campus ministries. We record the albums and tour in the summer during downtimes.
(Editor’s Note: Only Vans with Bri Bagwell is the latest addition to the BGS Podcast Network! Read more about the podcast coming on board here. Find our episode archive here.)
Fellow Texan, country musician, and podcaster Jarrod Morris joins Only Vans on this week’s episode to discuss being “cool,” hygiene, meat, and the origins of farriery. This is a hilarious and honest conversation and it was so great getting to know Jarrod.
Are you enjoying brat summer? We sure are, too, but as Teddy and the Rough Riders declare with their new video dropping today in You Gotta Hear This, “Catfish Summer” is what it’s really all about!
That’s not all our premiere round-up holds this week, either. We’ve got new videos from folks like guitarist-songwriter Joy Clark and Texan-Los Angeleno Silas Nello, and a new track has been unveiled by Americana duo Ocie Elliott, too.
Don’t miss bluegrass offerings from up-and-comers and legends, both. Jaelee Roberts brings a new single, “Between The Two Of Us,” East Nashville mainstays Greenwood Rye premiere “Down to the River,” and the Queen of Bluegrass herself, Rhonda Vincent, pays tribute to her homeland of Missouri with a song co-written by Opry star Jeannie Seely and Music Row stalwart writer Erin Enderlin. Vincent’s new album, Destinations And Fun Places, hits store shelves and digital platforms today.
To round out this edition of our weekly collection of premieres, don’t miss Moira Smiley’s rendition of the classic Jean Ritchie song, “Now Is The Cool Of The Day,” which debuted on the site earlier this week in honor of Farmworker Appreciation Day. It’s all right here on BGS and You Gotta Hear This!
Joy Clark, “Lesson”
Artist: Joy Clark Hometown: New Orleans, Louisiana Song: “Lesson” Album:Tell it to the Wind Release Date: October 4, 2024 Label: Righteous Babe Records
In Their Words: “My grandma is and was my root and when she passed, I thought about the gems she imparted to me in her 86 years of life. She’d say to me ‘Get your lesson!’ I’d sit at her table and talk to her. I came out to her at that very table. She accepted me. After she died, I sat down with my producer Margaret Becker to write, and the lyrics just rolled out; capturing the way my grandma lived her life. She taught me to treat everyone with kindness and to strive for peace while never backing down from a good fight. It’s a timely ‘Lesson’ for this country as we fight to take our rightful place in the struggle for freedom.” – Joy Clark
Video Credits: Directed and shot by Jared LaReau, Something Human. AJ Haynes – Creative Assistant
Ocie Elliott, “Adelina”
Artist:Ocie Elliott Hometown: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Song: Adelina Release Date: August 9, 2024 Label: Nettwerk Music Group
In Their Words: “‘Adelina’ is about a fictional heroine inspired by a combination of legendary musicians and personal idols –people who hone that extra something inside of them to carve their way through the barriers of the tangible world, prying doors open for others in their wake. In comparison to some of our previous recordings, the final result of ‘Adelina’ reflects the way in which it was put together – with a lot of play, compromise, reinventing, and scrubbing at the built-up grime and loose ideas to make a smooth surface for finer grit to be poured back in. To us, it feels louder, more immediate, and present. It’s a song you play when leaving somewhere – a ‘windows down, future open and ready’ kind of song.” – Sierra Lundy and Jon Middleton, Ocie Elliott
Greenwood Rye, “Down to the River”
Artist:Greenwood Rye Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee Song: “Down to the River” Album:Hideaway Release Date: August 9, 2024 (single); August 23, 2024 (album)
In Their Words: “‘Down to the River’ was one of the first songs I wrote when I moved to Nashville in 2020 and the first original song we started playing live as we started Greenwood Rye during the pandemic as the house band for Jane’s Hideaway in Nashville. I wanted to write the quintessential song for what we were trying to do as a band. It is a fun, funky groove with a singable chorus, has a jamgrass style instrumental bridge, and plays around lyrically with some bluegrass themes. I was thinking a lot of ‘Old Home Place’ and how the narrator is blaming others for his problems. So, I came up with the idea to have a character who takes responsibility for his actions. He ‘runs off to the vineyards’ rather than the ‘taverns took all his pay.’ But there is also a level of hubris in the narrator, as he feels like he can just go ‘down to the river’ every time he does someone wrong ‘again.’
“The track features Sasha Ostrovsky (Darius Rucker, Bering Strait) on dobro.” – Shawn Spencer, guitar, vocals, songwriter
Track Credits: Written by Shawn Spencer. Shawn Spencer – Guitar, vocals Cat McDonald – Fiddle, vocals David Freeman – Mandolin, vocals Taylor Shuck – Banjo Sasha Ostrovsky – Dobro Larry Cook – Bass
Produced & mixed by Billy Hume. Mastered by Pete Lyman. Matt Coles – Additional engineering Recorded at Compass Records.
Silas Nello, “Holy Ghost Blues”
Artist:Silas Nello Hometown: Los Angeles, California via Dallas, Texas Song: “Holy Ghost Blues” Album:From West Hollywood Release Date: August 9, 2024 (single); September 13, 2024 (EP) Label: Blackbird Record Label
In Their Words: “It came to me in a dream – a sort of fantasized crossroads moment of how mankind trades this for that and we don’t realize until the deal is already done. I wrote this song at the wet bar of my then 1980s home just north of Dallas sometime in 2016.” – Silas Nello
“The video was meant as a portrait of Silas Nello. We went around Los Feliz, West Hollywood, and Wild Horizon Sound, documenting his travels like a ‘day in the life.’ We broke the fourth wall with Silas acknowledging the camera and the audience throughout the piece. What this created was an intimate moment where we’re spending time with him but he was also spending time with us.” – Taylor Hungerford, filmmaker, Silverspark Printworks
Track Credits: Written by Silas Nello. Silas Nello – Lead vocal, background vocal, acoustic guitar, harmonica, tambourine Produced by Claire Morison & Silas Nello. Recorded at Wild Horizon Sound. Recording engineer, mixing engineer, and mastering engineer – Claire Morison
Video Credit: Taylor Hungerford, Silverspark Printworks
Jaelee Roberts, “Between The Two Of Us”
Artist:Jaelee Roberts Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee Song: “Between The Two Of Us” Release Date: August 8, 2024 Label: Mountain Home Music Company
In Their Words: “‘Between The Two Of Us’ was written with my friends Donna Ulisse and Kristen Bearfield. When we got together, we agreed that we’d like to write something up-tempo and happy, and ‘Between The Two Of Us’ is the result of that session. It truly is a happy song about love lasting between two people and what you have to do to achieve that. Getting to hear this song come together in the studio was really amazing, and I am so thrilled with the end result. The musical arrangement provided by Ron Block, Andy Leftwich, Cody Kilby, Byron House, Justin Moses, Stuart Duncan, and John Gardner absolutely made this song even more special than I could have imagined! To top it off, Stephen Mougin and Kelsi Harrigill joined me on harmonies and their voices were the perfect touch to convey the message of the song. I hope y’all enjoy this love song that is filled with words of hope, joy, and encouragement.” – Jaelee Roberts
Teddy and the Rough Riders, “Catfish Summer”
Artist:Teddy and the Rough Riders Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee Song: “Catfish Summer” Album:Down Home Release Date: October 11, 2024 (album) Label: Appalachia Record Co.
In Their Words: “This one is about visiting my mom’s side of the family who live in Rockmart, Georgia. I was 12 or so and didn’t really wanna visit my grandma Lou-Lou that summer. But instead, my mom dropped me and my cousin off at my uncle Bubba’s house for a few weeks, and he lived in an amazing hillbilly shack on the side of a catfish pond with about ten dogs, deep in the woods. Greatest summer ever! From childhood bummer to high time.” – Ryan Jennings, Teddy and the Rough Riders
Rhonda Vincent, “I Miss Missouri”
Artist:Rhonda Vincent Hometown: Greentop, Missouri Song: “I Miss Missouri” Album:Destinations And Fun Places Release Date: August 9, 2024
In Their Words: “My Grand Ole Opry sister Jeannie Seely started writing ‘I Miss Missouri’ for me several years ago. She lost everything, including the lyrics she had written, in the Nashville flood of 2010. Fast forward to February 29, 2020, the night she made my greatest dream come true and invited me to be a member of the Grand Ole Opry. We have since become close friends, and after the Opry invitation she said the lyrics started coming back to her.
“She invited Erin Enderlin and I to join her in writing the song. ‘I Miss Missouri’ was the inspiration for creating a ‘destinations’ project, with all the songs representing a destination.” – Rhonda Vincent
Track Credits: Written by Jeannie Seely, Erin Enderlin, and Rhonda Vincent. Adam Haynes – Fiddle Rhonda Vincent – Lead vocal, mandolin Mickey Harris – Bass Zack Arnold – Guitar, harmony vocal Aaron McDaris – Banjo Jacob Metz – Resophonic guitar
Moira Smiley, “Now Is The Cool Of The Day”
Artist:Moira Smiley Hometown: New Haven, Vermont Song: “Now Is The Cool Of The Day” Album:The Rhizome Project Release Date: September 6, 2024
In Their Words: “August 6th is Farmworker Appreciation Day, and I didn’t know that until this year. I am writing this as I sit on a hill above the rolling Vermont farmland where I grew up being a young farmworker and musician. In honor of this day, I’m releasing one of my favorite songs of all time – and the best one I know for reminding us to slow down and remember our roles as carers and tenders of this beautiful planet and the people around us. This week, I’m showering appreciation on the people that grow and tend food in my area; buying from small farmers, donating to the Open Door clinic that serves the medical needs of immigrant agricultural laborers. This gentle video hopes to slow your pace, and bring you along with me in acknowledging that farmworkers make our nourishment possible. Let us thank them.” – Moira Smiley
On his 2022 album Black Banjo, Tray Wellington thwarted stereotypes and pushed the boundaries of what bluegrass music can be. On his new EP, Detour To The Moon, he picks up right where he left off, weaving in jazz, hip-hop, country, and more into his trailblazing banjo bangers.
The meshing of influences on the seven-song project serves as a segue between full-length records; the EP is the first of a planned conceptual series showcasing the picker’s sonic and personal evolution.
“I want to keep pushing myself and growing until I’m at my max potential, and I don’t feel like I’m anywhere close to reaching that yet,” Wellington tells BGS of the project’s concept. “So if we’re talking in terms of the universe, I want to get way past the moon, because we’ve already been there and because my influences are constantly evolving and I want to be able to reflect on all of it.”
Although he’s most proficient on banjo now, Wellington’s musical development began years prior on the guitar – until he stumbled upon Doc Watson’s music while browsing his grandfather’s record collection. By middle school, the Western North Carolina native had joined a mountain music club that traveled to local communities playing traditional bluegrass music. Eventually one of his teachers, Josh Church, introduced him to the banjo and he never looked back.
“I’d never heard him play banjo to that point, but he pulled it out that day and started playing ‘Salt Creek,’” Wellington recalls. “I was instantly hooked by its sound and fell in love. From there he taught me a song or two, leading me to beg my mom for a banjo over the summer before starting ninth grade.”
Since taking to the banjo Wellington has grown to be one of it’s most promising young pickers, most notably winning the International Bluegrass Music Association’s 2019 Momentum Award for Instrumentalist of the Year, graduating from East Tennessee State University’s Bluegrass, Old-Time and Roots Music Studies program, and helping to form New Dangerfield — a Black roots supergroup also comprised of vocalist/multi-instrumentalist Kaia Kater, bassist Nelson Williams, and fiddler/vocalist Jake Blount.
That promise shines bright throughout Detour To The Moon, which sees an equal mix of him creating his own instrumental soundscapes as well as taking other’s songs, like Duke Ellington’s “Caravan,” “John Hiatt’s “Lift Up Every Stone,” and Kid Cudi’s “Pursuit Of Happiness,” and making them entirely his own.
In particular, Wellington says that Cudi’s certified diamond hit, first released in 2009, was one that he had to record upon first hearing it in 2023, due to its message of drug abuse and escapism that he resonated with deeply.
“That, and witnessing the profoundly positive impact it had on others of lifting them out of the dark places they were once in, is what made me want to record it,” Wellington explains. “If a tune has that much power, it deserves to be re-recorded and spread to as many new audiences as possible.”
In addition to pushing boundaries with his music, Wellington also pushed them with his own creative abilities on the artwork for Detour To The Moon, which he made himself. The first-time occurrence is one that he was thrust into after a graphic designer he had commissioned back out of the project as a deadline for their work was fast approaching. Rather than hire someone new to complete the work or delay it (and risk pushing back the entire project as a whole), he began completing it on his own. Featuring Wellington standing stoically with his banjo on a cratered moon surface with a looming purple glow, the artwork is a display not only of his creativity, but the improvisation and ingenuity that also make him a top notch musician.
“It took me 30 hours to create,” Wellington says with a chuckle of making the artwork. “I had to imagine the concept and find reference pictures before sketching ideas and putting it all into Photoshop. It took a long time, but I’m proud of how it turned out and now I have this new skill I can continue to hone and potentially help other artists with as well.”
Aside from Wellington’s ingenuity coming out in the EP’s cover art and in its choice of songs, it’s also displayed in the players who joined him on the project. For the first time in his three studio albums Detour To The Moon includes drums courtesy of the Steep Canyon Rangers’ Michael Ashworth. It also features fellow Asheville mainstay Drew Matulich (The Grass Is Dead) on guitar. Pedal steel guitarist DaShawn Hickman, vocalist Wendy Hickman, and Kater were other contributors.
Those pivots came after Wellington went into the recording process, planning for the players joining him to be exclusively from his traveling band – bassist Katelynn Bohn, mandolinist/fiddler Josiah Nelson, and Nick Weitzenfeld. While it does include each of them on all or a portion of the project, it also blossomed into something bigger that celebrates not only Wellington’s sonic evolution, but the many ways that Black music of old still shares with that of the present.
Connecting those dots and pushing for more diversity within bluegrass and roots music have long been part of Wellington’s creative work. While he’s done more than his part to advance those efforts, he says it’s going to take much more to see representation where it matters most – the audience.
“I’ve seen a lot more Black and other people I didn’t usually see before picking up a banjo, fiddle, or mandolin and playing bluegrass music in the last five years, but in the grand scheme of things it’s still a very small number of us,” asserts Wellington. “It’s on the venues, labels, artists, fans – all of us – to get involved and push for change because at the end of the day nobody wants to go out to shows where they know they won’t feel comfortable at.”
Anna Tivel and Jeffrey Martin have both released new albums in the past year that have knocked us right over. Living Thing is the most recent Anna Tivel record and Thank God We Left the Garden is the latest from Jeffrey Martin. Of all the singer-songwriter interviews and musician conversations we’ve done over the course of the pod, these two kooks have been a popular pair on this Basic Folk podcast. Their inspiration, musician life stories, and music career development have been fascinating journeys, Jeffrey being a former high school teacher and Anna spending her formative years intensely playing the fiddle before moving to Portland, Oregon at the age of 18.
In our conversation, the pair speak to several hot topics like, “Do you write about your neighbors,” “How’s your physical body at processing stress,” and “What is the point of your newsletter?” We dig right into it in true folk music podcast fashion, and these two are not holding back. If you are looking for some top notch advice, music collaboration ideas, and the latest in folk music trends – it remains to be seen whether you will find that here. What you will find are two very deep and thoughtful musicians sharing what goes on in their lives and hearts and in their designated work spaces. Spoiler alert: Anna’s office has five massive papier mâché eyeballs.
Photo Credit: Anna Tively by Cody Onthank; Jeffrey Martin by Jeffrey Martin
As the frontman/guitarist of The Wood Brothers, Oliver Wood is well versed in the art of roots experimentalism, but even that genre-blurring trio can’t satisfy all of his curiosity. With his second solo album, Fat Cat Silhouette (out now), the singer-songwriter set out to reach a new creative plane of existence.
Featuring nine playful, untethered tracks exploring pure sonic adventurism, the set became a case study in songwriting for songwriting’s sake; it’s a joyful mix of folk, jazz and free form pop. Recorded analog to tape by Wood Brothers percussion polymath Jano Rix, it features guest appearances by Katie Pruitt and Los Lobos saxophonist Steve Berlin, and some of the most irreverent, open-minded musical journeys ever taken. Each day, Wood would wake up, grab a coffee and sit down in a comfy chair, looking out the window to write whatever crossed his mind. The result was musical mood-shift, just a refreshing as it is insightful.
Ahead of another Wood Brothers tour, BGS talked with the artist about clearing his creative mind and getting “weird.”
It seems like you were purposely expanding your horizons on this second solo record, right? Why did you want to open up the floodgates?
Oliver Wood: I don’t know, it just felt like time to do that and time to experiment. … The Wood Brothers, we put out an album last spring and when we were done, I guess I was just still writing tunes. But also, I’ve always just liked in the last few years to make it a point to collaborate with some people outside of the band. And then production-wise, I felt like we’ve just done this album with The Wood Brothers a certain way, and a lot of times we react as artists and as writers. You sort of react to what you did before, and you try to be different, even though there’s not necessarily an exact sound in mind. It’s like, “What can we do that’s weirder?”
I love that idea of being a little weird, because why not, right? But the funny thing is that as a band, The Wood Brothers does not exactly seem limiting in terms of creativity.
No not at all.
So was there just still more in you, that had to get out creatively, or what?
I think so, yeah. And I’m sure there’s a subconscious part of me that wants to figure out what is my musical identity. I know what it is within The Wood Brothers. That’s sort of our bread and butter, but when I do my own thing, I feel like I can do whatever I want. … Maybe nobody will even hear it, so why don’t I just do get as weird as I want to get?
In the album bio, you talk about practicing songwriting without self-judgment and I think that’s a cool idea. Can you explain what that is to you and how you go about getting there?
Yeah. I think that is, first of all, almost impossible. However, maybe putting myself in a frame of mind that I was under less pressure to make something that people would like helps get there. It’s all subconscious, but when we’re with The Wood Brothers, even though we’re not trying to please anybody but ourselves, we do have to make our living, so in the back of our heads it’s like, “Oh, this song will sound good at Red Rocks or the Ryman Auditorium.” In other words, “People are going to love this.” I can’t help but think that in the back of my mind probably. But as far as writing without judgment and what that looks like? I think it looks like trust. I think it looks trusting that oftentimes your first instincts are right.
You don’t have to fix something or change something. You can trust that your soul and realness is going to come out if you just let it, and you write something down or play something, rather than going over it and editing it. I feel like I did that a lot with lyrics on this record. I wrote some things and I was like, “That doesn’t make any sense.” I caught myself thinking that, and then I was like, “Screw it. I trust that that’s what my subconscious told me to write. And it’s real.” I don’t think you really have to try to do that. In fact, the more you try, the less authentic it might be.
What came out is these nine tracks that to me are really playful and enthusiastic. What do you like about where the sound went? You definitely took some leaps.
Well, I talked with [album producer and fellow Wood Brothers member] Jano a lot about maybe being a little bit less on the drum set side, a little more on the percussion side. He is my favorite drummer ever, but sometimes I get tired of drum sets. I mean I love classic rock ‘n’ roll and R&B drums, all that stuff. But sometimes when you think about it, it sounds like everything else. So it was like “What if we didn’t have that?” There was one point where it’s like, “Jano, why don’t you do that percussion part vocally?” With the song “Whom I Adore,” not only did he play the Sitar and the tambourine, but he also did this weird shaker part with his mouth. Sometimes when you avoid one thing, you have to innovate to replace it with something else. And that was kind of the idea.
I use this really dull, rubber-bridge guitar on a lot of the songs, so there’s some more atypical guitar sounds. And of course, Steve Berlin and the bari-sax was a really cool thing. There was one section where we were wishing we had a horn section and instead Jano and I just sang all the parts. That was for “Star In the Corner,” and we just sang them like idiots – like fake opera singers! It’s kind of silly, but it was like, “That’s cool. And we haven’t done that before.”
That to me was the way to go to be non-judgmental, to be like you called it, playful. Sometimes you feel like you can control something and make it just perfect. But the opposite of that is letting go and trusting that if you try something, it may or may not turn you on, but when it works, it’ll surprise you and delight you. And that’s so much more fun than trying to control something and never quite being happy.
Tell me about the track “Little Worries.” This contains the album title, Fat Cat Silhouette, which is so fun. How does that song speak to the project overall?
Some of the themes, I feel like bloomed from that song. I have a ritual where I’ll go downstairs in the morning and have a cup of coffee in this armchair, which is right by a window facing my front yard. And I usually go down there and I write and sometimes I just write in a notebook, just sort of freeform. Sometimes it’s working on a song, but it’s wide open and several of these songs kind of started that way.
The idea of the Fat Cat Silhouette was really just an actual thing. I’m sitting there in that chair with my cup of coffee and I have these semi-transparent sheer curtains, and there’s a cat sitting there looking out the window. Sometimes for me – and I’m pretty sure for a lot of other songwriters – you don’t know what you’re going to write about, but you may see something that gets you started. And so the beginning of that song is literally me describing sitting in the chair with my cup of coffee and there’s a fat cat silhouette in the window.
That sort of observation, oftentimes if you write it down, can lead to a story. The first song on the album, “Light and Sweet,” happened the same way, sitting in the same spot looking out the window and there’s a sparrow. I started the song and then I started fantasizing. He’s on the phone with his lawyer talking about his divorce with his soon to be ex-wife.
[Laughs] You don’t hear many songs about bird law.
Exactly! But with the “Little Worries” song, I think writing that song and writing in general every morning is a good way for me to deal with anxieties and overthinking things. And that kind of turned out to be what that song was about.
How about “Yo I Surrender.” This is another track about giving up control, but also I think the most fun on the record. I love how you said it has the worst guitar sound ever. Why does that work for you?
That’s one that Jano and me and [bassist] Ted [Pecchio] were warming up one day, and we just started playing that groove. We just had fun playing that groove and I saved it on my phone, and then Steve Berlin from Los Lobos was in town with his bari-sax, and we invited him to come into the studio, help us finish writing that song. So the four of us sort of arranged the music and parallel to that, I was starting to think about the lyrics. I was also reading some cool books that were giving me some cool vocabulary words that I was like, “I just want to use that word. I don’t even care if it fits. I don’t even care if it makes sense.” It was definitely one of those things where it was musically such a group effort, and then lyrically one of those things – let it be weird, let it be ambiguous. I think some of my favorite songs that I’ve heard over the years are always a little bit ambiguous.
Artist:The Down Hill Strugglers Hometown: Brooklyn, New York Latest Album:Old Juniper Personal Nicknames (or rejected band names): We are sometimes mistakenly called the Down Home Stragglers.
Editor’s Note: Answers have been provided by band member Eli Smith.
What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?
Lots of great memories there. Being on stage at the Jalopy Theatre, the Brooklyn Folk Festival, or Washington Square Park Folk Festival with Walker, Jackson, and our dear bandmate, now gone, John Cohen would probably be my favorites.
It was also wonderful to play at the Library of Congress, in that hallowed hall. And the Oldtone Music Festival is an important one for us.
What’s the most difficult creative transformation you’ve ever undertaken?
It’s been interesting running the Brooklyn Folk Festival all these years, and now running the Jalopy Theatre’s record label, Jalopy Records, while also maintaining a musical life with the Down Hill Strugglers and solo, under my own name. Many musicians are also producers, as I am. It can be a challenge to switch back and forth between those mindsets, but it is satisfying to see both types of work progress. Finally, it’s all about sharing good music, however you can.
Genre is dead – long live genre! – but how would you describe the genres and styles your music inhabits?
We are working in the field of traditional music from the United States, with an ear also turned to traditional music from all over the world. One song I wrote, that’s on our new album, was inspired by a 78rpm record from Central Asia re-issued on the Secret Museum of Mankind series. It had a sound that stuck in my head and made sense to me. We changed it around until it became our own song in our own style. That seems natural.
The Down Hill Strugglers is an old-time string band. However, old-time music is a catch all for historic American folk music. It encompasses fiddle music, banjo tunes, guitar picking, songs & ballads, blues, religious music, work songs, and more; diverse music ministering to different parts of life.
What is a genre, album, artist, musician, or song that you adore that would surprise people?
Longmont Potion Castle has remained popular with the Down Hill Strugglers, driving around on tour, for years. That’s some funny stuff…
If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?
I might drive a cab, or something like that. I’d have great music playing in the cab and deck the vehicle out my own way. It’d be nice. Also, I’d do more organizing work as a leftwing activist. And I used to be a clerk in record stores. The best job I had was at the Arhoolie store, Down Home Music, in El Cerrito, California.
Artist:Moira Smiley Hometown: New Haven, Vermont Song: “Now Is The Cool Of The Day” Album:The Rhizome Project Release Date: September 6, 2024
In Their Words: “August 6th is Farmworker Appreciation Day, and I didn’t know that until this year. I am writing this as I sit on a hill above the rolling Vermont farmland where I grew up being a young farmworker and musician. In honor of this day, I’m releasing one of my favorite songs of all time – and the best one I know for reminding us to slow down and remember our roles as carers and tenders of this beautiful planet and the people around us. This week, I’m showering appreciation on the people that grow and tend food in my area; buying from small farmers, donating to the Open Door clinic that serves the medical needs of immigrant agricultural laborers. This gentle video hopes to slow your pace, and bring you along with me in acknowledging that farmworkers make our nourishment possible. Let us thank them.
“Ever since I learned Jean Ritchie’s song, ‘Now Is The Cool Of The Day,’ as an 11 year-old, it has played in my head while traveling through fields and pastures, working in my own garden, or worrying about the climate crisis. The words throughout her beautifully crafted song form and melody call on us to steward the earth (and take care of each other). Although she had that call coming from ‘my lord,’ I always felt that call coming straight from the earth itself. I love that these words urgently and gently remind us that we are tenders, not just extractors, consumers, and producers.
“American icons Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta founded the National Farm Workers Association in the early 1960s and it became the powerful United Farm Workers union, UFW. Huerta coined the phrase, ‘Si, se puede’ (‘Yes, we can’) and has been a lifelong advocate for labor rights, women’s rights, and civil rights with her efforts resulting in legislative victories for farm workers. Chavez’s leadership brought national attention to the plight of farm workers and helped secure better wages and working conditions through strikes, boycotts and other measures.
“The official Farmworker Appreciation Day got moved to August 6th by Bill Clinton’s administration, and I’m glad that we get to percolate and act on our appreciation while in this most fruitful of seasons, August. I hope you’ll join me by giving extra love to the farmers and farmworkers whose work nourishes you!” – Moira Smiley
Photo Credit: Fiona Small Video Credit: Fiona Small
Running has been a way for me to balance the highs and lows of the music industry. It gives me time to process my thoughts and decisions, and it’s also the perfect time for me to discover new music. In a chaotic world, running helps clear my mind and give me better energy throughout my day. I like to change up what I listen to, but below are a few of my go-to favorites. – Old Sea Brigade
“Starburster” – Fontaines D.C.
This was one of those songs that instantly grabbed me the moment I heard it. When I’m out running, I like to find songs where the beat is consistent. I think the scarcity of the instrumentation lets the drums and vocals just put you in a trance. It’s a perfect pace setter to start out your run.
“Midnight Rider” – Allman Brothers Band
Though I live in Sweden now most of the year, this song always brings back memories of growing up in Georgia. My mom’s from a small town in south Georgia called Brunswick and to get there from Atlanta (where I grew up), we’d always stop for a while in Macon, GA, home to the Allman Brothers. Every time I hear this song I oddly feel nostalgic for those blistering hot July drives through south Georgia to visit my grandparents. It’s a nice memory of home when I’m on a run through the streets of Gothenburg.
“New Noise” – Refused
Switching gears here… but I grew up playing in heavy bands and Refused were a pivotal band to me within hardcore music. I think this is the perfect mid-run song to help kick in those endorphins.
“You Think I Ain’t Worth A Dollar, But I Feel Like A Millionaire” – Queens of the Stone Age
A lot of times when I’m running, I like to daydream I’m the drummer in a heavy band. There’s definitely been a number of occasions where I’m air-drumming to this one on a run. Hopefully, no one has that on video.
“Seventeen” – Sharon Van Etten
The lyrics to this song hit me with every line. Such a beautiful song with an equally magnificent production. The driving drums make it perfect for a run.
“Centurion” – King Buffalo
This song hits so hard, plus I love a good stoner rock jam. Fun one to run to.
“Run To Your Mama” – Goat
I love the Black Sabbath feel here and the consistent guitar rhythm. Sets a nice pace for running
“Under The Pressure (Live)” – The War on Drugs
I like to time this to be one of the last songs of my run. When the guitar solo hits at the end, it’s absolutely amazing. What an incredible live band.
“Punk Rock Loser” – Viagra Boys
I love this band. I was a little late to the party, but this was one of the first songs I heard from them.
“Broken Man” – St. Vincent
I’m obsessed with St. Vincent’s production on this one. I love how drastic the new instruments are introduced here.
(Editor’s Note: To mark the occasion of Bonny Light Horseman’s brand new double LP, Keep Me On Your Mind/See You Free – which were released in June – we invite our readers to be as flies on the wall during a special exclusive interview, an entertaining and joyful conversation between the members of this folk supergroup, Eric D. Johnson, Josh Kaufman, and Anaïs Mitchell.
Read about the band’s memories of their first gigs played for money, about popular bands they don’t really “get,” and so much more below. Plus, dig into their deep and broad discography – together and separately – with our in-depth exploration of their catalog of recordings here.)
Eric D. Johnson: We totally love each other a lot and we spend a lot of time together and we talk about everything, and I know everything about you guys, pretty much. I got some deep shit on you guys!
But, one question that I didn’t know the answer to, because I have a really funny answer for it is, what was the first show that you ever played where you got paid money? Do you remember?
Anaïs Mitchell: Oh wow!
EDJ: Can you guys remember that?
Josh Kaufman: I can remember. I don’t know if it was the very first, but it was certainly early. I played a yogurt shop in Port Jeff. I definitely played a lot of Grateful Dead songs. I think I played “Peggy-O” and like “Friend of the Devil.” I may have tried an ambitious solo acoustic version of “St. Stephen.”
EDJ: Tell me more though, was it a band? Was it you solo? And did you go just under the name Josh Kaufman?
JK: Just me. I don’t know if I was even booked. I don’t know. I may have just shown up.
EDJ: And what was the yogurt shop?
JK: I can’t remember the name of it either. I feel like I have a couple of friends that definitely would remember and definitely were there. That was the ‘90s, that was the era of the yogurt shop. It was basically a cafe, but let’s face it, it was a yogurt shop. I don’t know what I got paid, but I did get paid. I was probably 16; at a yogurt shop playing Grateful Dead songs for money.
AM: I want to see you then, Josh!
EDJ: I totally want to see him! I want to find the bootleg of that show. How did you get hooked up with the yogurt gig?
JK: Well, I was kind of in bed with big yogurt–
EDJ: You’re a big deal going way back–
JK: Going way back now! Well, how did I know about [it]? I think my friend Kevin Jones worked there. I think this is what happened. My friend Kevin Jones worked there, who you guys will meet when we play in California, because he just moved to the Bay Area. He’s going to come to our show. I think they were looking to up their game [at the yogurt shop]. And he was like, “Let’s see what happens. Let’s bring in a professional.” It must have been such a hot mess.
EDJ: I bet you were good from the jump. That’s my guess.
JK: That’s generous.
EDJ: Anaïs, what about you?
AM: I think the first time I made money for music was [when I was] 18 years old and I took a gap year. I was going to go to school, but I took a gap year and then I moved to Boston. You guys know this. I know you know this about me.
JK: You were a waitress.
AM: I was a waitress. Right. At this diner and then later as a waitress at this Cajun/Mexican place, which really sucked. It was in Central Square and I remember I had that job, because I quit it when I realized that I could make money playing in the subway. I could make equal money to what I made as a waitress. Basically, I would go down – I want to say that I played an Ovation Guitar. I’m sorry. [Laughs]
EDJ: Classic! Love this. I’m just gonna say: Ovation Guitar; yogurt shop. Just as visuals.
AM: Totally. [Laughs] I love this. They go together.
JK: You can actually eat yogurt out of an Ovation Guitar.
EDJ: They are designed for eating yogurt out of – in the ‘90s!
AM: I had a little portable [amp], my first amp. I just started playing electric on tour with you guys, but that’s not my first amp. My first amp was a little Crate amp. Do you know what those are? It was bright yellow. And it was cool. For plugging in your Ovation Guitar when you played in the subway, they were amazing.
So I did that. And the cool thing was I was really just getting going. I had written maybe a handful of songs – that I’ve repressed [since]. Like they were really not good, but if you’re playing in the subway, the audience turns over every 10 minutes. I played the same songs. I would just play them again and again. It was mostly my new songs that I had written. And I think I played a couple of folk songs that I learned from the Rise Up Singing folk music bible.
EDJ: But were people like throwing in money? What was your haul? Not because I care that much about money, but I’m just asking, is this your first profesh gig? Do you have your case? Do you have a little hat box?
AM: You got your case open and you put a couple dollars in there. You put like a five [dollar bill] to show people that. You don’t put coins, because then that’s what people put. I actually can’t remember, with inflation, like, what was that? I want to say I would go down there for an hour or two and make fifty to a hundred bucks.
JK: Oh, that’s really good. That sounds really good to me.
AM: That’s why I quit my waitressing job! I was like, this sucks. I’m just gonna do this.
EDJ: You’re 18, what is that, the year 2000?
AM: Or something… it was ‘99. Yes.
EDJ: Okay, sick. With inflation, I think that’s good. I think you did really well
AM: I might be misremembering, might be adjusting for inflation [wrong] in my memory.
JK: I think I got paid, by the yogurt shop, like $46 or something like that, which when I think about it now it’s almost like the tooth fairy or something. I think somebody just felt bad for me. They’re like, “This is 36, 46 bucks, just take it, go.” You know that, “Here’s some gas money.”
EDJ: I like that it was $46.
JK: I don’t think it was $50. I think I’d remember it if it was $50. That would have seemed like a lot of money to me. I will say, the guitar I was playing, Eric, and Anaïs, would have been the same guitar that I still play – the Guild that we made our records with and that Eric played on our recent tour.
AM: I spent some time with that guy.
Eric, I want to hear your story.
EDJ: I got you gonna beat financially by a couple bucks. When I was like 17, my friend Steve and I decided I was going to join Steve’s band just as a singer, but I was too scared to just sing and stand there. I did not know how to play guitar. So, I got a crash course in guitar from Steve. Steve came to one of our shows last summer, I think, or two summers ago when we opened up for [Bruce] Hornsby.
Steve gave me a crash course in guitar, but I didn’t really know how to apply guitar chords to cover songs, you know? I was like, “I guess I’m going to have to write.” I immediately became a songwriter, because I was too dumb to learn how to play a Pink Floyd song or something like that.
All of a sudden we became this folk duo that played a mix of covers and originals, as I was learning chords. I learned how to play some covers. I think “Ripple” by the Grateful Dead was the first – speaking of Grateful Dead, Josh. We played at this cafe in our little downtown of our funny little suburb called Caffe Trieste. It was actually really cool. It was very ‘90s. When I remember it, it smelled like clove cigarettes in there and herbal tea. It was literally a coffee house, like from the old times where you smoke cigarettes and drink coffee at night and watch music. I’m not saying it was like Greenwich Village or something like that, but it was cool.
We would play there, but for no money. That was kind of like open mics and stuff like that. We played “Tangerine” by Led Zeppelin and we played “Ripple” by the Grateful Dead. I think we played “Wish You Were Here.” And then we played sort of a smattering of my originals, which were terrible.
But, I was at home [one day] and this is in 1993. My mom was like, “You have a phone call.” And it was some lady and she says, “My daughter, Katie, she’s turning fourteen and she’s a huge fan of your music. And will you play her birthday party?” And I was like, “What?” We don’t have a band or like fans or anything like that. But apparently this girl had seen us at a school assembly – where all we played was the Cheers theme – and she’s turning fourteen. I was like, “What type of money do you usually get for things like this?” But I sort of fumbled and before I could finish and name a price, she was like, “Would $150 be good?”
That was like an unfathomable amount of money. But she also wanted us to play two sets and play for like literally two hours in their living room. We had about 20 minutes worth of material.We went to the house. Her dad owned an automobile dealership, so the house was nice. It was a room full of thirteen and fourteen year old, she was a freshman and we were seniors. I just remember that. So maybe she was turning fifteen.
When we walked in, it was like Beatlemania. They like, screamed and stuff. There were parents, friends, and stuff who were there and they were kind of these wealthy people. My house was very unsophisticated and it felt like we had sort of stepped into this sophisticated realm of our like dumb little suburb. These were the elites! We played our show, only we had not learned more songs in order to play. So we did the Anaïs thing, but without the audience turnover. We just played things over again. And they asked us to play “Rocky Raccoon” by the Beatles. Then there was a set break and we had no more songs. We went out to Steve’s Jeep and got super high and then came back in and just played literally the same set again and doubled up on “Rocky Raccoon.” We played it four times in one night.
Anaïs Mitchell: What were you wearing? Did you dress up?
EDJ: I’m sure I was wearing something weird. I had a very schizophrenic style at the time. It was the ‘90s! I would wear plaid ‘60s golf pants, but I had this shirt that was a bread truck delivery shirt that had the name “Byron” on it like a name tag. My hair looked like Jason Priestley from 90210. I hadn’t honed my style yet, but I’m sure I just tried to dress up cool.
It was quite a first taste.
AM: That’s amazing. You might be the only band to play “Rocky Raccoon” four times in a show.
JK: The Beatles never played it one time in a show, I don’t think. So you beat the Beatles.
EDJ: Someone asked me this question recently – and you don’t have to answer with a modern band, because it could be more controversial – but what’s a band that’s iconic, that people love, that you’re like, “Not that…”
JK: Oh, Annie has a list of these they’re called like, unimpeachable bands that she doesn’t want to listen to. That she wants to impeach.
AM: I want to know her list!
JK: For instance, I think the Stones are on there. She’s like, “I mean, sure, the Stones are great or whatever, but I don’t want to listen to them.”
EDJ: For the Situation readers, by the way, this is Annie, Josh’s wife [we’re talking about]. Annie Nero.
JK: Yeah! But, for my own… let me think about that for a second.
AM: I have one, maybe. Maybe it’s going to be the same.
EDJ: Mine’s a little bit The Smiths – I actually think that the band sounds great. It’s sort of like The Doors, for me, where I’m not as into the front person [as I am the band], and I have to believe in the front person.
My other one is that I love Bob Dylan, but he’s like my 18th favorite songwriter. It’s still really high up there in the pantheon of songwriters, but probably a very low ranking as far as Dylan goes. I know Dylan’s a big one for you, Josh, but for me I have seventeen others I put above him. That’s an arbitrary number, but yeah.
AM: I was gonna say Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. I’d be interested in hearing Annie’s whole list, ’cause I do wanna say, I feel like it’s a gendered thing. I’m not even gonna be eloquent about it, but I do think we have deified certain male artisan bands.
Where it’s like, “Aren’t you into this?” And I’m like, “Actually no.” But I sort of feel like they’re unimpeachable. Like I’m supposed to be like, “Oh yeah, CSNY!!” But my feelings are complex about CSNY, because I love Neil Young and I love Graham Nash. I think it’s really David Crosby – rest in peace – that like, for somehow I’m [hung up on]. I read about how he produced the first Joni Mitchell record and, for me, Joni’s like the top of the totem. Reading about their dynamic, back in the day [is troubling.]
Everyone loved Crosby. She had to kind of be like, “Oh my God, it’s Cros!” You know, but she was Joni Mitchell! I couldn’t really feel that stuff. Yeah, that’s gonna be my band. It’s frustrating.
Sorry, we canceled. [Laughs]
EDJ: No, I think CSNY is a reasonable one!
JK: I was gonna say The Who, honestly. The Who are awesome and everything and certainly there’s ‘60s garage [rock] stuff that’s fun and everything.
EDJ: I think it’s okay to throw fire at those guys. Dylan can take it and be pissed. They can fucking take it!
JK: I guess I feel like that’s lazy of me.
I think Anaïs’ comment about this sort of Mount Rushmore of at the time, early 20s baby boomer white men [was well made]. When they were very young with guitars, for some reason, we’ve decided that those guys are the best.
EDJ: It’s like the Rolling Stone magazine “top 40 cool guys” list. It’s like a mural at a guitar center in suburban Atlanta that you stopped at on tour.
But also Anaïs, sidebar, in my seventeen songwriters above Dylan, Joni Mitchell is my number one, so…
JK: She’s at the top of my list for sure, but I think in the top zone. I don’t know if they’re like tiered necessarily, because since it is art and stuff, it does sort of depend on the opening that I have for it on any given day to enter my heart.
AM: I got a couple more. You guys, this is going to be wild. Well, maybe not. I mean, you guys know me pretty well, because it’s some of these things, the music is undeniable and has shaped other music, but it’s not for me, you know? I would put the Beatles in that category.
JK: I was waiting for you to say that!
AM: I would put both [CSNY and the Beatles] in there. And I sort of appreciate it when I hear it. Like when I hear it coming out of someone’s car or on the radio or whatever, but I will never put that music on myself.
EDJ: I feel like with Beatles, if it didn’t catch you at a certain moment it’s a tough, massive thing to dig into. I didn’t get into Joni until I was 30, and it was like one of the pivotal musical moments of my life.
That’s not to say, “I think you have to be 38 to get into Joni,” but I think for whatever reason, she’s so deep and cool and crazy that I think it took me having a little life behind me to sort of understand what it was about. Someone who had seen clouds from both sides now, like at that point, it hit me like super hard.
I think Beatles, talk about iconography and stuff like that! It’s like, I totally get it. But I can’t. I love the Beatles. It exists in my musical and our band’s musical DNA. I’m never not thinking about like a McCartney melody.
AM: I had some grand thought while you were just saying that, about when you encounter music and when it speaks to you. Because yes, if you’re fourteen, if you’re fifteen discovering Ani DiFranco as I was. She became like my whole raison d’etre, but then for someone discovering her later, at a different time in their life or whatever, it’s different. You had to be a certain age to get the Joni.
And, I wanted to talk about the Grateful Dead because, like the Beatles, I might’ve put them in [this category] if we had spoken a different time, but now I know and love you guys. I sort of became like a late-blooming deadhead, because of your love for the dead. I really got into it and really into the lyrics. I genuinely, really appreciate that music now, in a way that I didn’t like, ten years ago. Part of that is because I love you guys.
I kind of love how your love for people then transfers to your love for the things that they love. And that then becomes a thing that you love.
JK: I totally feel that. I’m not going to name any names here, because I feel like it could be misconstrued, but I do feel like I remember early on going out and opening up for bands with friends and at the beginning of it having already made up my mind about this music or something. But then, getting to know these people intimately over the course of a month and having these accelerated friendships as a result of being around each other every day and sort of falling for what they’re doing a little bit. Or maybe, at least being way more open to it than I ever would have been just hearing it on the radio or hearing it in a friend’s car.
So much music [from] growing up I associate with people that I love, for sure. Getting into Bob Dylan ‘cause I love my dad. At a young age like, “This guy’s obsessed with this guy!” And I guess I’m kind of obsessed with this guy who’s into this guy.
A funny one for me is They Might Be Giants. I love the songwriting of They Might Be Giants and I love that band so much, but I wouldn’t expect one of you guys to get into it now if you weren’t into it when you were fourteen. You know what I mean?
EDJ: I love the point you made Josh, about touring with bands or something, especially in the indie rock days, where you’re really like up in each other’s grills. You bond in a kind of a different way. …
You guys, we have four minutes left. What are your top three favorite foods, Josh.
JK: My top three favorite foods, um… Today I would say, I like Szechuan Chinese food. I like Greek food. And I like Italian food. You know, all the classic Northern Italian things and all the Roman pasta stuff. I mean, who am I kidding, right?
I’m going genres, not dishes, because for me, it’s definitely more about a palette than it is about a specific [dish]. You know, grilled fish and lemon and tomatoes and cucumbers. If I want something in that zone, then I want Greek food. If I want spicy, zingy Szechuan peppercorn, it doesn’t really matter what it is, it could be like shrimp or tofu or chicken, or it could just be string beans. I just get in the mood and go in that direction.
EDJ: Anaïs, what do you got?
AM: I just got so hungry when you described the fish with the lemon and then the tomatoes, Josh. Now that’s what I want. All right. The first thing I’m going to say is Josh’s food. I want not what you just said, but food that Josh Kaufman cooks. I would like the fluffy eggs that you make sometimes. And also one time you whipped up a chicken soup. Do you remember that? You just whipped it up so fast and it was the best chicken soup I’ve ever had.
JK: Oh, I love that. That’s so sweet. I love cooking for you guys.
AM: I also love and I recently had– do you remember the place Wang’s in Park Slope? It’s kind of like fried chicken, Southern stuff, but then also is it Korean?
JK: Korean fried chicken? I think, right?
AM: I had something like that with Ramona, my older daughter recently, and I was like, “Oh my God, this is very delicious.”
Eric, you tell us yours.
EDJ: Oysters, shrimp cocktail, nachos… uh, buffalo wings. And that’s it. Love you guys.
AM: Love you.
EDJ: Love you. Hopefully it’s all turned out awesome and we have so many cool things to talk about. I’ll see yous on Thursday night!
JK: I love you guys so much.
Photo Credit: Jay Sansone.
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