Sawtooth
Country Soul

To say Kashus Culpepper’s life has changed over the last five years is an understatement. A former state champion wrestler, firefighter, and EMT, the Alabama native developed a raspy, smoke-and-voodoo vocal while stationed in Spain with the U.S. Navy in 2020, forced to pass the pandemic in his bunk. Since then, he’s knocked over one milestone after another.

With a distinctive mix of country, blues, Southern rock, and soul, the 27-year-old cites Robert Johnson, Bill Withers, and Hank Williams as inspirations and is now bringing his roots-renegade instincts to mainstream fans. Despite only releasing his first official track in June of 2024, the music industry short-timer has earned big-time appreciation.

That includes the respect of heroes like Elton John and John Mayer, a Grand Ole Opry debut, tour dates around the country, and inclusion on 2025 “artist-to-watch” lists at GRAMMY.com, Apple, Billboard, Pandora, and more. Culpepper just finished a run of dates with Leon Bridges and he’ll hit the road with Whiskey Myers in June before joining tours by Sierra Ferrell, Darius Rucker, and others later on in the summer. It would all be overwhelming, if he had time to think about it.

“I’ve just been taking it day by day,” Culpepper tells Good Country with a hearty laugh, waiting to perform at a community festival in Arkansas last month. “I think that’s the best course of action. Don’t think too far in the future and just take each show, each writing session, each recording session one at a time. Just pray everything works out and keep going. … Because when things started happening, I was like, ‘Oh, snap.’”

We wanted to get to know Culpepper before anything else “happens,” and figure out what’s fueling the hype. As it turns out, this all-natural talent is just going with the flow.

I read that you didn’t even start playing guitar until you were in Spain for the Navy, right? What made you want to do that?

Kashus Culpepper: Yeah, in Spain we got shut down and I didn’t have nothing else to do, man. I mean, literally I was bored out my mind. It’s a different type of boredom, because during COVID you couldn’t do nothing. It’s not like you can just go outside or go to a bar or hang with your friends. We couldn’t do nothing. So this was a weird point in my life and my buddy had a guitar in the barracks. I was like, “Well, this is a perfect time. I literally have nothing to do.” I just went on YouTube and looked up covers I wanted to learn. Music has always been something I go back to whenever life is hard. So I resorted back to music and that ended up leading me to learn guitar, eventually learn to write songs.

Thank God for YouTube, huh?

Shout out Marty Schwartz!

You seem to have a lot of diverse tastes, but that bluesy, soulful country thing – why did that speak to you?

I think maybe that’s just my music taste. My first taste of music was gospel, and I’m from Southern Alabama, so gospel there, it’s really rootsy already. It already sounds like a folk song. And the way they sing it sounds so bluesy, like old Son House type of vibes. From there I got into blues music outside of church. I got into country music and R&B and folk music a little. I’m all over the place when I listen to music. I can go from Allman Brothers to a Conway Twitty song really quick.

But I know you like John Mayer and all that stuff, too, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love so many of those rock artists, ZZ Top, Led Zeppelin, Skynyrd. People ask me all the time my influence and I’m just like, “Bro, it’s so hard to name everybody.” John Mayer was a huge thing for me. Recently I went back to Norah Jones, I’m like, “Man, I used to love this record.” But with my music, at the end of the day, it’s just centered on my lyrics. I just want it to feel as rootsy as possible, because all the music I come from – blues, folk, R&B, soul, gospel – it’s all roots music at the end of the day.

Your voice is so good at expressing these really raw emotional states, I think. Is that how you are naturally? Or does that only come out in your music?

Most of the time? Honestly man, it’s just with the music. It’s hard to open up to the people. I think for me music has been great, just to express how I actually feel through my singing and my lyrics. I don’t usually just tell people.

So you’re from Alabama. After the Navy, did you go home and keep playing?

I got out the Navy in 2022 and by that point I already had gigs booked on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I was booked at all these casinos, all these bars. I was booked out for a year in advance. I got out and went straight to full-time doing cover band shows pretty much for another year, until I literally couldn’t take any more of it. Then that’s when I decided I really want to write songs. Literally, I decided “I’m going to move back home to save as much money as I can and move to Nashville.” I was home for maybe a week or two and posting a lot on TikTok and I remember I was in my mom’s living room. I posted a TikTok, I went out because I had an interview for a job, I got back home, and it had reached 100,000 views. From there it was just, “Oh, snap. It’s going on.”

@kashculpeppermusic Replying to @Casey Wayne One week till “Man of His Word” drops! Appreciating all the support on this one❤️ Pre-save link in bio🔥 #country #singersongwriter #original #kashusculpepper #newmusic #livemusic #countrymusic #countrymusiclover #tour #soul #newcountry ♬ original sound – Kashus Culpepper

That’s awesome. Congratulations on how that all turned out. I think one reason for it might be that your music seems so unconventional, almost untamed. Maybe because you did it on your own? Do you feel like fans are hungry for that?

I think so. We talked about John Mayer. John Mayer is kind of like that. He’s all over the place. Sometimes he’ll do a blues song and then straight up pop, and then an R&B song with Leon Bridges. I think people just love that from artists. Artists just being artists. Just do whatever the song feels like. That’s how I feel with songs.

“A Man of His Word” is super soulful, with lots of that gospel influence and a big raspy vocal. Tell me about being the man a girl deserves. Where’s that theme coming from?

I wrote that song with Natalie Hemby and at the time we was just talking about life. The song is from a perspective of a guy looking into a girl and she’s going through hardships, because she don’t have a man of his word. She’s drinking a lot, doing a whole bunch of stuff. The song has a lot of me in it. I grew up with a single mother and you don’t know how those things can affect you without having somebody in your life you can trust. You get the feeling you can’t really trust nobody, because that’s not part of your life, and that leads to mental health problems or substance abuse. You don’t even notice it at the time, until you look back and you’re like, “Dang, that’s why I feel that way.”

After that comes “Broken Wing Bird” with Sierra Ferrell and it’s on the opposite end of the spectrum. Very threadbare and folky, right?

Oh man. So I’m a huge fan of Willie Nelson. One of my favorite songs is “Funny How Time Slips Away” – I just love so much the crooner era that he was doing – and I wanted a song that felt like that.

I wrote the song about somebody that’s not really good for you and you just keep taking ‘em back regardless, because you love them and no matter what they do, you’re always going to. So she’s like my broken-winged bird – no matter what she does, she’s flying back and I’m always going to help her out and then she’ll probably be on her way again.

It’s been good getting to know you a little. Big picture, what do you hope people take away from your music?

I think overall, I hope they can see I’m just an artist trying to express the way I see things, and I hope in some way they can find music that can fit every part of their life. Whether they’re trying to have a good time out partying, or if they want to soak into the sadness of a lover they lost, I just hope my music can fit some aspect of their life. And I hope they can enjoy it.


Photo Credit: Cole Calfee

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Mavis Staples Finds a Place to Call Home in Frank Ocean’s “Godspeed”

Mavis Staples counts herself among the legion of Frank Ocean fans and she’s just released her rendition of “Godspeed” as a sign of her admiration. Of course Staples is an iconic voice of her generation through her groundbreaking music with the Staple Singers on “I’ll Take You There,” as well as the family group’s participation in the 1960s civil rights movement alongside Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. For this heartfelt track, Staples and producer Brad Cook bring in songwriter and Youth Poet Laureate Kara Jackson for spoken word vocals.

Channel Orange was my first introduction to Frank Ocean and I was just amazed at the writing and soulfulness coming from his voice,” Staples said. “And I loved Blonde when that record came out. That first line in ‘Godspeed’ of ‘I will always love you’ just crushes me every time I hear it… or sing it. It’s just such a beautiful song and he sounds amazing on it so I was a little nervous if we could pull it off. I was honored to sing his words.”

This weekend in Canada, Staples will sing at jazz festivals in Ottawa, Toronto, and Montréal before crossing back over the border for shows in Knoxville, Tennessee, and Brevard, North Carolina. After a number of American concerts in July, she’ll pause just long enough to celebrate her 86th birthday. Then she’s bound for dates in Norway, the Netherlands, and Sweden in August, with even more stops scheduled throughout the U.S. through early October.

Yes, she’ll take you there… but only if you can keep up. Check out the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame member’s cover of Frank Ocean’s “Godspeed” released by ANTI- Records below.


Photo Credit: Myriam Santos

BGS 5+5: The Last Revel

Artist: The Last Revel
Hometown: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Latest Album: Gone For Good (out July 18, 2025)

Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?

I grew up fly fishing, hunting, and camping in my home state of Wisconsin. Those experiences have turned into passions of mine in my adult life and are about the only other thing in my life that I feel a hyper-focused mental clarity like I do when I’m performing onstage. I cherish them both equally and I wholeheartedly feel that one informs the other. I began writing “Go On,” a song on our forthcoming record, while on a solo mule deer hunt near my current home of Livingston, Montana. The verses seemed to pop up fully formed. I still have a voice memo on my phone of me humming lines from the song while hiking down a mountain in the dark. For me, there is a clear path between being deeply immersed in an outdoor experience and being able to hear ideas and inspiration from my subconscious mind. I feel lucky to now live in a state like Montana where the opportunities for great outdoor experiences are endless. – Ryan Acker

What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?

The best advice I ever received was kind of in passing on a long drive between a few tough shows on tour in the early days. We were all talking about how hard some shows can be, especially when there’s very few people there. It can be difficult to put your whole heart into it and when you do, it can feel exhausting. So we were all talking about it. Vinnie’s family owned a restaurant when he was young and his mom used to say, “You win people over one plate of pasta at a time.” I have thought about this phrase on a regular basis for years to stay inspired about the shows and the songs regardless of turnout or enthusiasm from the crowd. It helps to remember that at least one person there is enjoying our version of pasta. And it helps me stay passionate about what we are sharing rather than worrying about how it will be received. – Lee Henke

If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?

If I didn’t work in music, I think I would be an excavator. I think in order to move dirt, dig holes, and grade slopes all day everyday you would almost have to achieve a Buddha-level zen to sustain your well being. It would also give me time to focus on something simple and seemingly endless, which can be soothing for my brain. There is also something mystical about making something beautiful out of dirt. We always talk about the magic of making something out of nothing in the band so I guess that’s maybe why I think I would be a good excavator in another life. Or maybe retirement. – Lee Henke

Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

Italian tavern food with Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds in the corner.

There is a little tiny village called Compello Monti at the end of the road, way up in the mountains on the border of Italy and Switzerland. It is just at the edge of the tree line and built around a waterfall that drops through the middle of several blocks of stacked buildings, because of that everything is covered in dew. It is a place that is shrouded in moss and held together by benevolent ghosts. In the center of the town there is a little tavern that will serve you a five-course dinner in striking Italian fashion – that is to say, simple, robust, and perfect – with libations to match for an extraordinarily modest price. I recall having the most incredible antipasti, followed by a simple plate of linguine al pomodoro, and porchetta, the last time I was there. I would love to enjoy that meal with a great heaping portion of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds playing in the corner mostly for themselves, serving up deep, dark, lovely sorrow for us all to enjoy. – Vinnie Donatelle

What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?

There is often a lot of time to kill backstage and at a certain point I started randomly making up nonsensical and sometimes libidinous songs to kill the time, have fun, and try to get my guys laughing. Ryan pointed out recently that when I do that I get all the yips out and tend to play better sets. Since then I’ve tried doing that before anything important, like interviews or studio time, and it actually does seem to make a world of difference. – Vinnie Donatelle


Photo Credit: Christopher Murphy

Watchhouse Found New Rituals Amid the Push and Pull of Change

Chances are you’ve cultivated a few personal routines to help you navigate the world: one for daily life, one for weekly, monthly, and so on. There’s also likely a handful of individual habits that affect how you choose to go about your routine. The former, at times, can influence the latter, fitting within each other like a pair of nesting dolls, adjacent and similar in their roles.

Then there are rituals. Though these three recurring sets of actions – routines, habits, and rituals – would seem like easily overlapping bedfellows, rituals carry an intrinsic quality the other two lack: mindfulness. Rituals bear a sense of intention like the other two, but it’s often coupled with an element of symbolism or custom. It’s not just a matter of doing something and saying it’s done; there are other connotations or expectations that may influence why doing it matters.

Holding this notion in mind, it’s Rituals that Andrew Marlin and Emily Frantz of North Carolina duo Watchhouse have decided to name their new album. Through its 11 tracks, the married musicians posit an abundance of questions and actions, their contemplations placed in settings that are as clear as a simple back porch and as abstract as a space “through the looking glass,” “beyond this to and fro.” Settings that exist outside of not only any kind of routine, but separate from time and space all together.

Though Watchhouse’s new writings don’t seem to present rituals in their conventional form, the title still feels wholly appropriate. Marlin and Frantz’s reflections, wistful pining, and open-ended ruminations don’t lead to a sense of clear, expected structure that rituals would traditionally provide, but each song is lined with an abundance of intention, mindfulness, and hope for various outcomes. Sometimes these are overtly stated – Oh, I’m dreaming of a life with you in the sun/ And I hope our time together has only just begun… – and sometimes they are dressed in metaphors: Go fire your cannonball, go and fire away/ When the ashes fall we’ll start a brand new day.

There are defined ideas that Watchhouse put forth on the album: identity and awareness, the distinction between patterns and truths, how to develop a positive relationship with change, and what it means to evolve. All the same, while our internal responses to these songs may change over time, the very act of revisiting, replaying, and reconsidering their meanings, and how we are affected by them, can be a form of ritual in its own way.

Amid an extensive tour that will take them all over the U.S. and into Canada through summer and fall, Watchhouse spoke with BGS about their collaborative dynamic, how their individual artistic instincts influence the direction of a song, and the prevalence of duality in the album – as well as in their lives.

It’s been about four years since your last album and eight years since both your lives changed from bandmates to family. Given that Rituals focuses on patterns and the perception of change on our lives, how has the ever-growing longevity of your union in marriage — and all the ways marriage transforms a relationship on its own — changed the way you perceive and interact with the music making process?

Andrew Marlin: When you hit the road and join forces with other people to play music, it’s kind of like stepping outside of the norm and stepping outside of the daily life to go up there and almost take on a role or take on a character in order to get inside the music. You kind of just forget everything that the day often requires of you, because all of a sudden those requirements aren’t there. It’s just the stage and the music and the people that are there rooting for you to go deep, you know?

I think finding that zone with Emily has had its challenges in the past, because we’re so closely tied to each other. We raise kids together and we live together, and so doing all this traveling together and playing music together too, it makes it harder – or made it harder for me at the beginning, I think – to leave the daily routine and expectations behind on stage and just shed all of that and take on that character. It’s one thing to look at your bandmates’ eyes and get a little nod or whatever’s happening during the music. It’s kind of like this understanding of, “I’m not here right now. This is just me playing music.”

Getting to that zone with Emily, now that we’re 16 years into it, has taken a while to get to that point to where it’s an acceptance of all of it, instead of just leaving things behind to get on stage. It’s like we’re carrying all of it with us at all points in time. People that come to see us get a real and honest version of ourselves, trying to go deep in the music but also being completely aware of each other too.

Emily Frantz: I was just thinking about how much things changed in 2020 and 2021, living our mundane day-to-day lives in our house, and the transition back into being on the road again and touring. We’ve obviously been doing that for a few years now since COVID, but that experience made us relearn what the relationship is between our daily life at home and touring and [figuring out] how can they coexist in a healthy way.

Ironically, the album’s opening track, “Shape,” avoids the traditional shape or structure of a song (all verses, no chorus) while the actual narrative of the song embraces ideas that lean into a sense of purgatory and a nebulous state of being — the very opposite of what would help establish a sense of shape, boundaries, identity, direction, patterns, or truths. What were the mental and emotional motivations that inspired you to take the song in this direction?

AM: It’s like establishing the shape or the pattern in order to separate yourself from it. That’s what a lot of those verses are doing, kind of outlining the things that often make me feel like I’m in a box and I’m trying to get outside of that box. The only way to do it – because there’s no real form to it – is to imagine the parameters, imagine the spaces that it ends up kind of confining you in, in order to step outside of those [boxes]. I think that was the intention with “Shape.”

EF: And the way that “Shape” came into its final form, at least final the way it appears on the record, was a lot of the things that you said about it: It didn’t ever really conform and it got rearranged and had things added and taken away from it so many times, a lot more so than other songs. But it always did feel like the backbone of this record in a lot of ways, which is why it felt really right as the opening track of this record.

AM: If there was a shape to define that song, I’d say it’s a spiral.

 

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How have you fit rituals into your lives and have they helped you maintain a sense of stable continuity as a family and as musicians?

AM: I feel like since having kids, the day has taken so much more form. Because I think that, and Emily [is] really brilliant about this, giving structure to the day is super helpful for them. So that they don’t have to wonder what’s happening, so that they can really pay attention to what is happening. I’ve watched both of our kids blossom in that environment. Emily’s really good about helping to create that and make sure we stick to it. Carrying that on the road has been really helpful, too and something that I didn’t realize I was going to benefit very much from. Because I definitely, when left to my own devices, am like a sheet left out to dry – just flapping in the wind. To have a little bit of structure to the day, and have to enter into these mental zones with the kiddos, has added a lot of mental structure to my existence. I think that’s the biggest thing for me.

And within that, it’s about realizing what the day actually requires of me, instead of what I imagined today to be expecting of me. Finding those real anchors and a little more gravity to the things I’m working on have helped me shed old expectations of myself and what I think I’m supposed to be doing. I think that’s what led us to be okay with changing the band name and changing up some of the sounds and approaching this thing we’ve been doing for a long time in a whole new way.

EF: I think the thing that we are [focusing on] 16 years in is finding where the balance is between freedom and artistic expression, and also just daily life and figuring out how to have those two things like coexist and make each other better and not be in a constant sort of push and pull.

The first verse in “Beyond Meaning” is intriguing. The statement of your “gentle” disposition is nice, but its seemingly conditional nature gives pause — particularly when considering that life is noisy and out of our control more often than not. What is it that you’re trying to say about your own identity and awareness of how you cope with the noise and bustle of everyday living?

AM: I feel like what I was getting at is to view it as though it’s external noise. But it’s actually internal noise. That’s often the thing that keeps me from my peace and keeps me from being gentle. It’s my own defenses and my own self-consciousness that end up creating all of this noise. It paints the external noise in a negative light. When I can control that and remember to keep my own defenses at bay and be open and actually present, the idea that maybe this external noise is not a malicious one keeps me gentle and then often what comes from that is a gentle interaction. So it’s more about controlling the internal noise in order to actually experience the external factors.

Out of the 11 songs on the album, Emily is the primary vocalist only for “Firelight.” Why was Emily the right fit to sing the story of this one song? And more broadly, what went into your shared thought process on when, and for how long, you two would sing together? Is it a purely harmony and arrangement-based decision, or do the emotions of a song influence how each vocal arrangement is structured?

EF: A lot of times it can be pretty cut and dry. If we’re deciding who should sing lead on a song, it might just have to do with the range or the key, where we think it sounds good. Sometimes that plays into it maybe even more than the lyrics or the subject matter. With Andrew doing the songwriting, he’s always been more of the primary lead vocalist. Oftentimes, by the time we’re arranging a tune and finding out how we want to present it, it’s very cemented in his voice. But then a lot of times, there will be tunes that we’re struggling with and we’re not quite finding it. By switching out who’s singing, it reframes the whole song and allows us to not just change the lead vocalist, but to find a whole different zone for the song in terms of what we hear and how it gets arranged and recorded. That was the case with “Firelight.” We had so many different versions of that song over the years leading up to recording – different time signatures, different instrumentation – and that was one of the last ones that came together for this album. Most of it got done after the initial tracking session because we were searching on it for a long time and I think I like it more and more the longer I sit with it, the more I hear it.

AM: Often people do want to know why Emily’s not singing more tunes or why the roles are what they are. But I think it’s really important to shine a little light on what Emily does behind the scenes when she’s not singing. The way she plays rhythm and plays violin or whatever instrument she’s on, it ends up being this anchor for everyone in the band. The way that offers complete structure to what we’re doing and allows everything else to sway around that a little bit, I feel like even when she’s not singing, her musical voice is such a strong presence in the music. I’ve heard her say this before, like when she’s playing violin, she’d rather not sing lead because it’s almost like having to sing with two voices. That became part of the structure of what we’ve been doing all along, not just with the lead vocal. The feel of the song and the rhythm and the chord structure and the flow of it all often is hinged on what Emily ends up doing. I think that’s just as important as her taking a lead vocal.

EF: I’ve really, over the years of us playing music together, come around to enjoying singing lead when we find the song that feels good in my range. But for the most part, I’d rather be singing harmony to Andrew and that definitely brings me just as much, if not more, fulfillment than singing lead on a song.

Endless Highway (Pt. 1)” and “Sway / Endless Highway (Pt. 2)” leave a much heavier state of reflection than that of “Patterns,” the song you chose as the album’s finale. Were the lighter tone of the music and the lyrics a driving factor for why these last three songs are in this order? Did you want to avoid an ending that leaves the listener with a more uncertain emotional state?

AM: I’ll start off by saying Ryan Gustafson, who produced this record with us, actually ended up coming up with this track order. Having not listened to it that way and then taking Ryan’s perspective on it, it was like being able to listen to these songs in their entirety for the first time. All of a sudden, I was getting feelings from these recordings that I hadn’t gotten yet.

“Endless Highway (Pt. 1)” is a heavier song and talks about a really traumatic event that Emily and I went through and that long drone at the end of it kind of dances around the dread of that. Then into “Sway,” it’s more of a coming out of that [feeling]. How do we peek our heads out of the hole once we’ve gone down and slowly crawl back out? To finally get into “Endless Highway (Pt. 2),” where it feels like a real revelation and a real triumphant part of the record? So, you get to the top of the mountain on this song. But I do believe that while those revelations come, we get to the top of those mountains, everything’s clear, and there’s so much lightness and clarity around us, we still have to wake up the next morning, make coffee, make breakfast, get kids to school, go and run errands and carry that little mountain of revelation with us everywhere we go.

I think that the heaviness and the profoundness of that idea ends up giving way to these smaller, mundane parts of our life. That’s what “Patterns” feels like to me. It’s an admission that if we can hold on to those little revelations and the clarity they offered us, hopefully it’ll keep us light by offering us that little reminder of hope.

EF: Going back to what Andrew was just saying about having these big events or these heavy, emotional things happen, and then having to go on with our lives, and the push and pull of that – there’s frustration and beauty in it. I love the order of those [last few] tracks, because I feel both the “Endless Highways” and “Sway” are songs that were written in the middle of this album being written and there’s a lot of anguish from a lot of different sources in those songs. And then “Patterns” was the last song that was written for the album before we recorded it, so it feels like it has a certain clarity to it. Going down in the trench and making your way back up, even though it’s still really just posing a lot of the same questions [as the beginning of the album], but from a more settled state of mind.

What truths about yourselves and how you view the world have you discovered and accepted since finishing Rituals? How many of the questions you’ve posed through these songs do you feel you’ve managed to settle on answers for?

AM: I don’t think I would often look closely enough at how I was making a person feel, as much as I would look at the way the person was. I think that’s becoming more of my truth these days, just to trust that showing up open-minded with awareness and consciousness, focused on experiencing rather than projecting, is probably the closest to any truths that have come out of writing these songs and getting to the end of this record. The takeaway is that it’s not like we found answers, necessarily.

EF: It’s all just a pursuit, always.

AM: You know, it’s not always about finding answers. It’s about finding out–

AM/EF: It’s figuring out what the question is.


Photo Credit: Jillian Clark

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Gary P. Nunn on Only Vans with Bri Bagwell

Today, I interview a legend! Gary P. Nunn joins the pod to talk about the Texas Country Music Cruise, writing a book, friendship with Willie Nelson, drummers and Texas Music Heritage.

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First thing: obviously the audio here is not ideal, and I really apologize. I was at a songwriting retreat in the sticks, so from my end, there was a lag and also some audio that cuts in and out. But when you get the chance to interview Gary P. Nunn, you take it! So even though I was not purposefully interrupting Gary P — I would never — it does happen due to the delay in audio. This legend is so unbelievably kind, open, fun, and genuine. We talk about his book At Home With The Armadillo, which I own and adore, and his new record To Texas With Love which is also fantastic. We talk about Willie and Jerry Jeff Walker, writing the epic song “London Homesick Blues,” all of the success around his song, “The Last Thing I Needed, First Thing This Morning” (which I had to sing in front of him at Steamboat, terrifying), and how he has stayed super independent through all of the changes in the music industry.

Gary P. and I share a love of red wine, and I spill the beans that I will be joining the Texas Country Music Cruise in Fall of 2026! You can see me there next year and Gary P. this year! Head to TexasCountryMusicCruise.com to book that right away!

Thanks to Gary P. Nunn for hanging in there with me through the audio mishaps, and go to GaryPNunn.com for all of his merch, tour, videos, you name it! And Gary P! Release that photobook!


Photo Credit: Valerie Fremin Photography

Finding Lucinda: Episode 4

Ismay uncovers a fascinating seldom heard recording of Lucinda from a radio show in 1981, leading them down a path to discover the musical influences in Lucinda’s early Life. Meeting with members of the Grammy Award-winning band Los Texmaniacs, Ismay goes out on a limb and seeks to recreate that radio session in the famed Cactus Cafe.

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Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is slated for release in the fall. Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay.
Final song by Los Cenzontles Cultural Academy
“Libro Abierto (ft. Flaco Jimenez)”
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Music Supervisor: Jonathan McHugh
Austin, Texas recordings at The Cactus Cafe
Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Eugene Rodriguez, Matt Bizer, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here.

Basic Folk: Dar Williams (Reissue)

(Editor’s Note: Welcome to our Reissue series! For the next several weeks, Basic Folk is digging back into the archives and reposting some of our favorite episodes alongside new introductions commenting on what it’s like to listen back. Enjoy!)

Dar Williams, originally from Mount Kisco, New York, grew up in an era and a household where everyone was tearing down the old ways of doing things, and learning new ways of expressing themselves. For Williams this meant participating in theater and learning to play instruments. She attended Wesleyan University where she studied theater and religion. A deep engagement with matters of the heart and spirit continues to permeate her work today.

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After college Dar found herself in Boston, immersed in the singer-songwriter scene. She wrote and released her album The Honesty Room, which changed everything. That album started her on a path to becoming a venerated performer in the folk space. She was on the original Lilith Fair lineup, which included too many musical legends to name here. It was a dream come true to talk with Dar about that experience, about what it might take for another Lilith Fair to happen, and about the current climate for women in the music industry.

Dar’s latest album, I’ll Meet You Here, was released on October 1, 2021. This beautiful collection of songs was mostly recorded pre-COVID, but then hit a number of road bumps on its way to release. It deals with time, acceptance, places, and small towns, topics about which Dar Williams is a master storyteller.


Photo Credit: Ebru Yildiz

Finding Lucinda: Episode 3

Ismay visits cornerstone music venue The Hole in the Wall in Austin to interview Charlie Sexton, the producer and songwriter who’s best known as a guitarist for Bob Dylan. They discuss Charlie and Lucinda’s first gig together in 1979 when he was just a kid. Charlie shares insights into Lucinda’s remarkable songwriting, as well as the emotional struggles musicians face with self-doubt.

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Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is slated for release in the fall. Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay.
“Sundays” written by Lucinda Williams.
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Music Supervisor: Jonathan McHugh
Austin, Texas recordings at The Hole in the Wall.
Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby.


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here.

ISMAY on Only Vans with Bri Bagwell

Today we make a new friend! ISMAY is an outstanding human and artist based in California who happens to have a podcast of her own on The BGS Podcast Network! We went wayyy over on time so you’re welcome and I hope you enjoy learning about ISMAY as much as I did!

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ISMAY is an alternative folk music project driven by California-based singer/songwriter Avery Hellman. Avery does it all: curates a music festival called Woollystar, releases amazing records (go listen to ISMAY’s Desert Pavement LP now), and is currently working on a project documenting the early-musical footsteps of Americana icon Lucinda Williams. We dive into that immediately, and bring up Charlie Sexton, an amazing producer who was in Bob Dylan’s band and co-founded the Arc Angels. The Finding Lucinda podcast they recorded on this journey is out NOW everywhere you listen, and is presented by our same amazing podcast network, The Bluegrass Situation! Growing up on a farm in Sonoma County, California, with a grandfather who founded the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival, ISMAY is an incredible product of that farm and musical lifestyle. You’re gonna “flip” when we talk about Avery’s phone, and we were instant friends!


 

You Gotta Hear This: New Music From Jaelee Roberts, Moira Smiley and More

Ready for some new songs of the summer? Don’t miss these new tracks from exceptional bluegrass talents Jaelee Roberts and The Kody Norris Show, New England-based songwriters Moira Smiley and Naomi Westwater, rising country duo the Kentucky Gentlemen, and fellow Kentuckian Jeremy Short with special guest Tommy Prine. It’s all below in our latest edition of You Gotta Hear This!

Jaelee Roberts, “Love Gone Missing”

Artist: Jaelee Roberts
Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee
Song: “Love Gone Missing”
Release Date: June 6, 2025

In Their Words: “I co-wrote ‘Love Gone Missing’ with my friend Theo MacMillan (we wrote ‘Something You Didn’t Count On’ and ‘November’ on my debut album). We were swapping around ideas during a writing session and ‘Love Gone Missing’ is the result of that and I really love it! The entire song is written from the perspective of the girl but that isn’t revealed until the last verse which gives the story a different twist. This song has hopeful lyrics about losing the person you love but knowing there’s a chance to get them back. ‘Love Gone Missing’ came together so beautifully in the studio with Cody Kilby on guitar, Andy Leftwich on mandolin, mandola, and fiddle, Ron Block on banjo, and Byron House on bass (and producing), along with Grayson Lane singing harmony. I really hope that y’all enjoy this song and the story it tells!” — Jaelee Roberts

Track Credits:
Jaelee Roberts – Vocals
Cody Kilby – Guitar
Andy Leftwich – Mandolin, mandola, and fiddle
Ron Block – Banjo
Byron House – Bass
Grayson Lane – Harmony vocal


Moira Smiley, “We Are Timeless”

Artist: Moira Smiley
Hometown: Bristol, Vermont
Song: “We Are Timeless” (featuring Shruti Ramani)
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Label: Whim Records

In Their Words: “By February, it was clear to me, living as I am in rural America, that a Pride anthem was going to be an important part of what I would sing this year, 2025. It was life-affirming to film the video with Fiona Small and finish the track in our tiny town with dancers & friends showing up in their fiercest finery and joy against the worry and cold. My friend Shruti and her fiancée Kia wrote the second verse after I shared with them my own story in verse one. We shared our personal journeys knowing that so many humans have harrowing journeys discovering our sexuality and the rules of gender as we become our most grounded and expressive selves. Queerness has shown us ALL – across the eons – that it is sacred to investigate how we express our love most fully and authentically.” — Moira Smiley

“During our first live filming session with Kai and Moira, I was reminded of Brandi Carlile’s stunning music video for ‘The Joke,’ where very real, sensitive humans lip-sync the words of the song so that we understand that this is their song too. GRATEFUL to the movers, musicians, and creators who showed up with open hearts, curious minds, and fierce authentic presence.” — Fiona Small, filmmaker

“Writing these words with Moira felt like opening a channel to something bigger than both of us — a collective memory, a song that reaches back and stretches forward.” — Shruti Ramani

Track Credits:
Written & Arranged by Moira Smiley.
Sung by Moira Smiley & Shruti Ramani.
Lyrics by Moira, Shruti and Kiarah O’Kane.
Kai Fukuda, piano; Seamus Egan & Moira Smiley, percussion & bass. Kristina Stykos & Moira Smiley, edit/mix/master

Video Credits:
Vermont Dancers (in order of appearance): Moira Smiley, Kai Fukuda, Leonore Tjia, Jacqueleen Bordjadze, Laurel Jenkins, Sonnie May Jenkins-Kent, Sophia Calvi, Leila Hon, Marek Zajac, Jenesis Artis, Fiona Small.
Co-directed by Moira Smiley & Fiona Small


Naomi Westwater, “The Empress”

Artist: Naomi Westwater
Hometown: Mashpee, Massachusetts
Song: “The Empress”
Album: Cycle & Change
Release Date: May 9, 2025

In Their Words: “As a New Englander, I’ve found that around the end of the summer, people get anxious about the days getting shorter and the cold coming in. This song is an acceptance that all seasons are sacred and so we shouldn’t fear them. It’s also a declaration of my own sacredness. Written in a field of goldenrod and inspired by The Empress tarot card, this song welcomes in the acceptance, the trust, and abundance the previous song lacked.” – Naomi Westwater

Track Credits:
Ben Burns – Drums
Cooper Evello – Percussion
Don Mitchell – Producer
Talia Rose – Seagull M4
Chris Sartori – Electric bass, upright bass
Naomi Westwater – Songwriter, producer, vocals
Dan Cardinal at Dimension Sound in Boston, MA – Mastering engineer
Andrew Oedel at Ghost Hit Recording, West Springfield, MA – Recording engineer
Philip Weinrobe at Sugar Mountain, Brooklyn, NY – Mixing engineer
Video Credits: Shot by Naomi Westwater with help from Dan Blahnik. Video edited by HipStory.


The Kody Norris Show, “Wild Mountain Rose”

Artist: The Kody Norris Show
Hometown: Mountain City, Tennessee
Song: “Wild Mountain Rose”
Album: Highfalutin Hillbilly
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Label: Rebel Records

In Their Words: “‘Wild Mountain Rose’ came to me from a great friend and fellow songwriter, Conrad Fisher. In my opinion, this song embodies the true simple essence of bluegrass music! We’ve held on to this song for a couple years now, waiting for the right time and right album. I think it fits well on Highfalutin Hillbilly and feel that this song will be around for a long time to come!” — Kody Norris

Track Credits:
Kody Norris – Guitar & Lead Vocals
Mary Rachel Nalley-Norris – Fiddle, Mandolin & Harmony Vocals
Josiah Tyree – Banjo & Harmony Vocals
Charlie Lowman – Bass
Jason Barie – Twin Fiddles


The Kentucky Gentlemen, “To Kill Me”

Artist: The Kentucky Gentlemen
Hometown: Versailles, Kentucky
Song: “To Kill Me”
Album: Rhinestone Revolution
Release Date: June 6 , 2025
Label: River House Artists

In Their Words: “This song ‘To Kill Me’ is for the fighters, the ones who’ve been dragged through hell and still come out swinging with a smile. This is about freedom from fear, from limits, from anything that tries to bury you before your time. It’s proof that we’re still standing.” – The Kentucky Gentlemen


Jeremy Short, “Let It Shine” feat. Tommy Prine

Artist: Jeremy Short
Hometown: Eastern Kentucky
Song: “Let It Shine” feat. Tommy Prine

In Their Words: “A lot of people will come and go in your life, no matter how hard you try to hold onto them. And sometimes focusing on holding on so tightly gets in the way of appreciating moments while they’re happening.

“On the road we meet a lot of really cool people, a lot of really cool, super talented artists, club owners, you name it. But then in a matter of hours you pack up, load out and head on to the next city. You always hope you’ll make it back there sooner than later, that those people will also remember those interactions, that the connections will last and they will want to come back and hang again or play another show together, that’s one of the best parts of getting out there and seeing the world. But because of the briefness of your time together, it’s also easy to get lost in thoughts of ‘Does this really matter?’, ‘Will they even remember me?’, ‘Am I just spinning my wheels?’, so when I wrote this song, I think I was really just trying to find that balance.

“Tommy is a top notch songwriter, man. I still really want to get in there and write one from scratch with him instead of him coming in as a feature on mine. Being the son of one of the greatest songwriters in the world, I’m sure it didn’t hurt – but man, he’s carving his own path, his own way, with his own style and it’s great music. I’ve been spinning his songs since way before I met him, and I’m super grateful to have had the opportunity to work with him and get to know him a little bit.” — Jeremy Short

Track credits:
Jeremy Short – Vocals, Guitar
Tommy Prine – Vocals
Katie Barker – Vocals, Bass
Ron Rite – Vocals, Guitar
Shane Diesel – Vocals, Drums
Johnathan Smith – Keys

Written by Jeremy Short
Recorded at The Pine Box (Nashville, TN)
Produced, Recorded & Mixed by Justin Francis
Mastered by Raelynn Janicke @ Infrasonic Sound Recording INC


Photo Credit: Jaelee Roberts by Eric Ahlgrim; Moira Smiley by Fiona Small