Artist:You, Me, Everybody Hometown: Ngaruawahia, Waikato, New Zealand Latest Album:Southern Sky (January 2021) Latest Single: “Heart of Stone” (June 3, 2025) Rejected Band Names: Captain banjo & the Bluegrassketeers
What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?
I remember playing a gig on Valentine’s Day way back in 2013 at Matterhorn in Wellington. There was a huge crowd there and at some point, towards the back of the room, there was a major kerfuffle. Medical staff were on the scene, but the band just kept on playing, having no idea what was actually going on. At the end of the show it was revealed to us that somebody had actually gone into labour, giving birth just outside the venue. I believe that my music had a hand in creating life and am disappointed that the baby was not named in my honour. – Rob, bass
Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do they impact your work?
I have been ocean swimming for about six years now, after decades of not being a swimmer at all. My wife and I each have a swim buddy and we go year-round. The blast of cold water has been a welcome grounding for us both as we lost our son a few years ago. I made it through with water and music: the cold Pacific ocean for clarity and sanity, the band for the transcendent moments of joy that only music can bring. – Nat, banjo
What’s the most difficult creative transformation you’ve ever undertaken?
Playing music from such a young age has meant I have gone through many musical changes. The hardest change in my music career has been going from spending all my time playing music through my teen years to working a full-time job. Transforming my mindset to find balance has been tricky and still is, but music will always be a very big part of my life. – Sam, mandolin
What is a genre, album, artist, musician, or song that you adore that would surprise people?
I am a big-time house music appreciator, so as a bluegrass musician and fan, I think people are surprised to find this out. The two genres don’t really share any instruments in common, but if you strip them back they do have similarities, which is why I think it really resonates with me. Who knows, maybe I will try adding some Roland drum machines to the next YME next bluegrass hit! – Laurence, guitar, vocals
If you didn’t work in music, what would you do instead?
I’m a teacher, Rob’s a teacher. We all have jobs outside of music. For a long time I thought that meant that I couldn’t call myself a musician, but I’ve long ago stopped making excuses about this. So many musicians need other jobs to pay their bills. I taught drama and I’ve found more and more that the creative processes I’ve undertaken with my students now really plays into my writing process and the collaboration we do as a band. We work really hard to try everyone’s suggestions before saying no to something – you don’t know it won’t work until it actually doesn’t. All of my skills tend to come out in everything I undertake. – Kim, guitar, vocals
It’s Friday, so we’ve got a passel of new songs and videos just for you. You Gotta Hear This!
Kicking us off, Nashville-based Americana duo Haunted Like Human bring their new single, “Married in Savannah,” about change, growth, and vowing to break generational cycles. It’s a thoughtful track with a beat and vibe that lean forward expectantly – or, perhaps, still hopefully. Meanwhile, Lauren Lovelle shares a song that she released earlier this week, “Anxiously Attached,” a two-steppin’ honky-tonk number about repeated disappointments in love and relationships that’s perfectly lonesome and self-deprecating.
Aptly timed for our current heat wave, Hawaii-born country artist Maoli drops his new album Last Sip of Summer today, and you can hear “Better Off on a Beach” below. While you sweat through these high temps, hit play and lean into his mainstream island-drenched country sounds while you imagine the sand between your toes. Plus, keeping the summer mood going, roots rockers Little Feat have released a brand new video for “4 Days of Heaven 3 Days of Work,” the groovin’ opening track from their new album, Strike Up The Band, which was released last month.
Mandolinist Danny Roberts shares a new instrumental tune below, too. “Leitchfield” is a pulsing, acrobatic original mandolin composition that pays homage to Leitchfield, Kentucky, a place Roberts calls “the fiddling capital of Kentucky.” (He should know, too, as he holds a Key to the City!) His labelmate and fellow mandolinist Darren Nicholson also has a new single today, “I’ve Got No Tears Left to Cry.” It’s a lonesome fast waltz that follows Marty Stuart’s sage advice to always trust a simple song.
To wrap us up, check out singer-songwriter Jackson Scribner’s “Depression Kids,” the title track for his just-announced album that was unveiled earlier this week. “…Although [depression is] looked at in a negative manner most of the time,” Jackson says, “it’s something that can bring us all together.” Packaged in vibey steel guitar and equal dashes of Americana and indie folk, the song ends up where our collection this week started, finding traces of hope in perhaps unlikely sentiments.
Of course we think this is a lovely round-up of new music, but you ought to decide for yourself. After all, You Gotta Hear This!
Haunted Like Human, “Married in Savannah”
Artist:Haunted Like Human Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee; originally Fayetteville, Georgia (Dale Chapman) and Milton-Freewater, Oregon (Cody Clark) Song: “Married In Savannah” Album:American Mythology Release Date: June 27, 2025 (single); October 17, 2025 (album)
In Their Words: “‘Married in Savannah’ is a song about growing up and realizing that you’ve grown into someone very different than the people that you thought that you knew. The song unfolds as the narrator looks at their relationship with an old and dear friend that they’ve drifted apart from. She was fiery and passionate and felt stifled by the expectations of the posh Southern family that she came from. The two spent their younger years vowing to break cycles and craft lives of their own, but the narrator now finds that their friend has seemingly become all of the things that she used to hate. Our narrator has to sit with the questions that they won’t ever get answers to, like whether the friend’s spirit was broken or if it was all just youthful naiveté that she set aside as she matured. They mourn the loss of the friend that they knew and the future that she could have had.” – Haunted Like Human
Track Credits: Byron House – Bass Paul Eckberg – Percussion Charlie Lowell – Keys Eleonore Denig – Violin Cody Clark – Guitar, vocals Dale Chapman – Vocals Engineered and mixed by Mitch Dane. Mastered by Veronica Conners.
Little Feat, “4 Days of Heaven 3 Days of Work”
Artist:Little Feat Hometown: Bill Payne – Emigrant, Montana; Kenny Grandy – Los Angeles, California; Sam Clayton – Fallbrook, California; Fred Tackett – Los Angeles, California; Scott Sharrard – New York, New York; Tony Leone – New York, New York Song: “4 Days of Heaven 3 Days of Work” Album:Strike Up The Band Release Date: May 9, 2025 Label: Hot Tomato
In Their Words: “‘4 Days of Heaven 3 Days of Work’ is the opening track on our new album. The ‘Gonzo Funk’ in the song’s lyrics and groove exemplify our lineup’s take on the classic Feat boogie. It is also the only tune on the album that was co-written by Bill, Tony, and I. All the riffs and lyrical imagery could only have come out of the three of us throwing ideas around together. Once the band got a hold of it, it went to a whole other level. This one was a true collaboration in service of the song.” – Scott Sharrard
Lauren Lovelle, “Anxiously Attached”
Artist:Lauren Lovelle Hometown: Newton, Kansas Song: “Anxiously Attached” Album:Other Dreams EP Release Date: June 25, 2025 (single); September 9, 2025 (EP)
In Their Words: “[‘Anxiously Attached’ is] about begging for the bare minimum, putting your partner on a pedestal, and in turn, repeatedly disappointing yourself. I find myself laughing during that ‘dammit I gotta work the dinner shift’ line, because I often am playing a gig right after working a dinner shift.” – Lauren Lovelle
Maoli, “Better Off on a Beach”
Artist:Maoli Hometown: Maui, Hawaii Song: “Better Off on a Beach” Album:Last Sip of Summer Release Date: June 27, 2025
In Their Words: “‘Better off on a Beach’ is such a vibe. There’s something magical about the beach – it’s like time slows down, and everything just clicks into place. Honestly, I don’t know a single person who isn’t better off with their toes in the sand. Being from Hawai‘i, I’ve always felt a deep connection to the ocean. The sound of waves rolling in, the warm sand beneath your feet – it takes you to a different place mentally. This song brings all of that home for me. It’s about letting go of your worries, surrounding yourself with good friends, and soaking up the good times. It’s about leaving your troubles behind… back where the pavement ends.” – Maoli
Darren Nicholson, “I’ve Got No Tears Left to Cry”
Artist:Darren Nicholson Hometown: Canton, North Carolina Song: “I’ve Got No Tears Left To Cry” Release Date: June 27, 2025 Label: Mountain Home Music Company
In Their Words: “I heard Marty Stuart say once that you should always trust a simple song. That stuck with me. So, ‘I’ve Got No Tears Left To Cry’ is just that. It’s a blunt goodbye letter from a jaded lover who is completely over being burned one too many times. It’s a ‘moving on’ song. Musically, it’s a traditional sounding piece that is reminiscent of classic bluegrass and honky-tonk music. It’s written to sing with big harmonies and Kevin and Avery nailed those. I am very proud of this cut and think bluegrass fans will enjoy it!” – Darren Nicholson
Track Credits: Darren Nicholson – Mandolin, lead vocal Mark Fain – Upright bass David Johnson – Acoustic guitar Deanie Richardson – Fiddle Avery Welter – Harmony vocal Kevin Sluder – Harmony vocal
Danny Roberts, “Leitchfield”
Artist:Danny Roberts Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee Song: “Leitchfield” Release Date: June 27, 2025 Label: Mountain Home Music Company
In Their Words: “When I wrote this tune, I didn’t have a title in mind and needed to come up with something to call it. While listening to the song and pondering on a name, I got thinking about the fact that my lifelong friend, Jimmy Mattingly, played fiddle on it. That led me down the path of recalling us growing up on adjacent farms, going to school and playing music together which gave me the idea that it would be cool to have a song named after our hometown of Leitchfield, Kentucky. Leitchfield/Grayson County is the fiddling capital of Kentucky and has produced many fiddlers and other musicians over the years and I’m very proud to call it home. I was honored to receive the Key to the City from Mayor Harold Miller at last year’s Twin Lakes National Fiddler Championship and I’m dedicating ‘Leitchfield’ to all the wonderful folks there.
“It was so much fun getting to record this with some of the greatest musicians I’ve ever picked with – Jimmy Mattingly, Tony Wray, and Andrea Roberts, and I appreciate them helping me bring this tune to life. I hope everyone enjoys it!” – Danny Roberts
Track Credits: Danny Roberts – Mandolin Andrea Roberts – Bass Tony Wray – Acoustic guitar, banjo Jimmy Mattingly – Fiddle
Jackson Scribner, “Depression Kids”
Artist:Jackson Scribner Hometown: Melissa, Texas Song: Depression Kids Album:Depression Kids Release Date: June 25, 2025 (single); September 19, 2025 (album) Label: State Fair Records
In Their Words: “I wrote this song on a bunch of sticky notes on my bedroom floor, thinking about the different ways I feel depression. It occurred to me that no matter what sort of depression people are dealing with, everyone deals with it. Everyone’s in the same giant boat. In a way, although it’s looked at in a negative manner most of the time, it’s something that can bring us all together.” – Jackson Scribner
Photo Credit: Darren Nicholson by Jeff Smith; Jackson Scribner by Brendan Blaney.
We know we’re not the only ones constantly clamoring for more bluegrass, string band, and old-time music on television – especially primetime and late night. So last week, on Monday, June 16, we and roots music fans across the country were delighted to find a superlative bluegrass song broadcast on Jimmy Kimmel Live!
Actor, comedian, and banjo renaissance man Steve Martin and his pal, preeminent five-string picker and record label executive Alison Brown, brought another of their musical collaborations to the world from the Kimmel stage in Hollywood. Joined by Tim O’Brien singing lead and playing mandolin, Robbie Fulks on guitar and harmony vocals, Christian Sedelmyer on fiddle, and Garry West on bass, the sextet performed “5 Days Out, 2 Days Back.” (Watch below.)
Martin and Brown have worked together quite a bit (watch a couple of past BGS posts highlighting their work together here and here) and have a seamless musical rapport, even in this instance pairing his clawhammer with her three-finger style and low-tuned banjo. Their songs are often hilarious, or sweet, or intricate, and always whimsical. “5 Days Out, 2 Days Back” is about the call of the road, the life of an itinerant musician, and the push and pull between longing for the horizon and missing one’s home and loved ones. By the track’s conclusion, we find the singer passing along the life he loves, however bittersweetly, to his own child – whatever the pros and cons. O’Brien offers the lyrics in his classic, laid-back and reedy voice with Fulks lending a sharp, ‘grassy tenor.
The song’s arrangement is intricate and technical at times, but flows easily on down the highway; it’s orchestrated and well-rehearsed for television, but feels down-to-earth and intuitive at the same time. This balance is a hallmark of Martin’s roots music forays, whether with Brown and company, the Steep Canyon Rangers, and beyond. You can sense the intention in each lyric, each note, and the flow of the number. But, ultimately, the result is each of these impeccable musicians getting out of the way of the first-rate song.
Martin, Brown, Fulks, and band (sans O’Brien) appeared just two days after their Kimmel appearance at the Hollywood Bowl for Rhiannon Giddens’ American Tunes (see exclusive BGS photos of the event here), making for a musically lush few days of bluegrass and roots music in Southern California, on the airwaves and wafting on the breeze over the Hollywood hills.
Artist:My Brother’s Keeper Hometown: Cincinnati, Ohio Latest Album:Wartime Cartoons Personal Nicknames (or rejected band names): Most of the band goes by our given names. Titus, Joshua, Adam, and Benj(amin), but our bass player “Wyatt” has been holding strong to the nickname “Sawmill” and has a “Sawmill” vanity license plate on his Ford Focus to prove it.
Answers provided by Benj Luckhaupt.
Which artist has influenced you the most – and how?
I’m sure any artist would say “it’s hard to choose” and I’m going to say the same. Brian Wilson, Chris Thile, Alison Krauss, Tony Rice are all so formative to us, but as a songwriter I would say Bruce Springsteen has inspired me above all. His melodies are insanely catchy, his lyrics are gritty and literary. I appreciate his ability to be both subtle and straightforward, sometimes in the same sentence. He tells you the facts and then makes you think about the implications. Bruce also covers such a wide range of the human experience. His music is a great blueprint for the “song first” approach and I really try to incorporate that into my writing, even in the bluegrass medium. I want to write simple songs that make you think. There’s also such a variance in sound (think between Nebraska and Born in the USA) and yet it all works. I could nerd out about this forever.
What other art forms – literature, film, dance, painting, etc. – inform your music?
Definitely film and literature. We look to film often to inspire our visuals. We have a music video that is very Wes Anderson-esque, and the visuals for the album cover of Wartime Cartoons were inspired by the starkness of show Severance. There are certainly a few songs inspired by movies. A song called “The Banshees” on our last album was inspired by the landscape and darkness of a movie called The Banshees of Inisherin.
Literature, song and poetry are all so closely related. Leonard Cohen was a great author outside of songs. Spending a lot of time in books has had major influence on my writing, directly and indirectly. I love to start my day with a book about religion or history and end my day with a book about music or musicians. Sometimes I try to do an audiobook in between. Just taking in all those beautiful words is such a wonderful way to increase your vocabulary and worldview.
Titus and Wyatt are both photographers, and I think that art form opens up creative pathways as well, and of course contributes to the visuals of the band.
What has been the best advice you’ve received in your career so far?
This kid told me to think about what I’m thankful for and write about that. That was great advice. He was like 5 or 6 years old and I do think about thankfulness every time I write. Out of the mouth of babes.
What is a genre, album, artist, musician, or song that you adore that would surprise people?
Most people are pretty surprised when they find out that we love hip-hop and mainstream pop. They’re even more surprised when we tell them that our music is inspired by those genres. I’ve even had people say things to me like, “I like all music except for that rap crap” and I’m always like, “Oh, really? Because I love it!” Some people are even surprised when they hear how much we love The Beach Boys.
Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?
I’d like to sit down with Tony Rice and eat whatever fish he just caught and fried up. I’m sure we wouldn’t talk much, but we’d probably listen to Miles Davis and I’m sure I would learn a lot.
Oh, WOW! A bonus, surprise episode with Watchhouse? Yes! And it is a treat.
We are pleased to have Jacob Sharp of Mipso as our guest host in conversation with his friends Andrew Marlin and Emily Frantz of Watchhouse, talking about their new studio album, Rituals. The record was co-produced with Ryan Gustafson of The Dead Tongues and finds the North Carolina duo exploring themes of identity, awareness, and evolution.
We are so pumped about this pairing on the pod! We are also huge fans of Jacob’s music – with Mipso as well as in his solo endeavors – from his attitude to his vibes. Not to mention how super talented he is. This is a really fun conversation between some old pals. Jacob was based in California, but now moving back to North Carolina, so it’s cool to have a little homecoming for these North Carolinians. Thanks for listening!
Writer Marty Godby called it “The convergence of 1975.”
The elements: a band that would only be together for 10 months, a benevolent venture capitalist who loved bluegrass, and an upstart record label from Boston. The resulting product was unprecedented and unforgettable: The New South, Rounder Records 0044. Bluegrass fans know it simply as “0044.”
The New South of this recording was J.D. Crowe on banjo; Tony Rice on guitar; Ricky Skaggs on mandolin; Bobby Slone on bass; and Jerry Douglas on Dobro. The impact of that configuration and the album were stunning. Yet, within a year of the recording, Rice would leave to become a founding member of the David Grisman Quintet. Skaggs and Douglas formed Boone Creek. Crowe and Slone continued performing together for years.
Both the origin story and legacy of 0044 have inspired great narratives, probably more than any other bluegrass album. Bill Nowlin, one of the three founders of Rounder Records, wrote three articles for BGS on the album’s 40th anniversary. They offer a step-by-step look at what happened in 1974 and 75, plus hilarious and poignant anecdotes and quotes.
J.D. Crowe, already revered for his banjo playing and baritone singing, led a band called The Kentucky Mountain Boys. From 1968, they had a six-nights-a-week gig at the Red Slipper Lounge in a Lexington, Kentucky Holiday Inn. Crowe added non-traditional bluegrass instruments and songs to the Holiday Inn repertoire. This was as much to please a diverse audience as it was to keep the musicians from getting bored. In 1971, Crowe changed the band’s name to The New South.
Of the name change, Rounder’s Marian Leighton Levy said, “It was obvious that this was a new kind of bluegrass.” From a broader view, “It was an era when the South was, in a way, trying to self-consciously reinvent itself as a new, modern place. And they [The New South] were kind of the musical representation of that wider political context.”
It was the ’70s, and change was brewing – even in the tightly controlled world of country music, Levy noted. Around the same time, Willie Nelson and his Outlaw Country compatriots were reaching out to new songwriters and moving away, physically and musically, from “the factory system of Nashville publishing companies.”
In 1974, lead singer Larry Rice left the New South and brother Tony took over singing lead. Ricky Skaggs’ pure tenor mixed with Rice’s unmistakable mid-range voice, creating a new, dynamic tension for their duets and trios. In the summer of that year, Crowe and the band toured without any product to sell. At the annual Gettysburg Blue Grass Festival, Crowe, his friend and manager, venture capitalist Hugh Sturgill, and the young founders of Rounder Records initiated “The Great Convergence” – an agreement for a studio recording. An innovative contract led to the first New South album.
THE BLUEGRASS WORLD EXPLODED
As soon as they heard the test pressing, the Rounder founders knew they had something remarkable on their hands. “Jack Tottle [who, along with John Hartford, wrote liner notes for the album] was stunned, and he kept saying, ‘This is one of the most amazing records ever made.’ And he was not given to exaggerating,” Levy said.
“It was clear. It was crisp … and the more you played it, the more you wanted to hear it.”
0044 came out in the spring of 1975. Levy said by festival season, other bands were playing the tunes from the record “pretty much note for note.” One observer said that at one festival, almost every band on stage played “Old Home Place.”
So, what is it about that record? Let’s start with the musicians. Skip Heller, who initiated the 0044 Real Gone Music reissue, said everyone in that group of players “would talk about it like it was high school prom and their first love … they had all been in good bands before, but this was the first time they had been in a band that was as great as anything in bluegrass music had ever been.”
Levy said, “They absolutely knocked each other out. … And I think that long before anybody heard the record, they knew the band would stand the test of time – because of all of them, not just one person.”
The record’s title was The New South. Only after the first printing sold out, three band members had moved on, and it was time to redo the cover (read about the cover photo – a great story in itself), was it retitled J.D. Crowe & the New South. Crowe, born in 1937, was the venerated elder and a banjo icon. After entering Jimmy Martin’s boot-camp-of-a-band at age 18, he developed impeccable timing, his own take on Scruggs-style banjo, and excellence as a baritone singer. And he knew how to pick his band members.
The influences of Tony Rice (age 24 at the time) on bluegrass and related music are limitless – from cementing the role of guitar as a lead bluegrass instrument, to modeling impeccable rhythm playing and singing, to excelling in so many genres outside the bluegrass boundaries. At 21, Skaggs had the instrumental chops, a stunning voice and the instincts to become successful in both country and bluegrass. Rounder’s Ken Irwin attributes much of 0044’s innovation to Skaggs, including bringing a teenaged Douglas into the mix.
Douglas is to Dobro what Rice is to lead guitar. Fifty years later, after 14 GRAMMY awards and countless other honors, he continues to inspire and encourage musicality and creativity in Dobro playing. Touring with Alison Krauss since 1998, it’s likely that he has been heard live by more people than any other resophonic guitar player. Of the veteran, Bobby Slone, Mullins said, “Everyone in the band wanted to make sure that Bobby got a lot of credit. … He was such a rock solid force on that band, not just on bass, but as far as camaraderie was concerned.”
By the time The New South entered the studio, Crowe, Slone, and Rice, later joined by Skaggs, had spent hundreds of hours performing together at the Holiday Inn. Individually, they were superb musicians. Together, they were as tight as a band could be.
THE SONGS
Long before 0044, Crowe had blasted out from under bluegrass constraints, incorporating songs like Fats Domino’s “I’m Walkin,” and at Larry Rice’s suggestion, The Flying Burrito Brothers’ “Sin City.” The songs on 0044 were just a small set of a huge repertoire. While the unconventional musical choices sparked controversy among traditionalists, they also sparked a flame of excitement that spread quickly and widely.
In 1975, Mullins said, Ralph Stanley & the Clinch Mountain Boys, Jimmy Martin, and Bill Monroe were still “killing it” at festivals with their first generation bluegrass sound. “On the other end of the spectrum, Seldom Scene recorded Live at the Cellar Door,” an immensely popular recording, that year. Like the Country Gentlemen, the Scene had been recording songs totally out of the bluegrass box, using bluegrass instrumentation, but with an emphasis on rich melodies and harmonies, rather than just the drive of traditional bluegrass.
Mullins said, “You go to Crowe, who’s got the street cred from all his records with Martin, but he’s also looking ahead, and so he’s able to get it all in there. A lot of bands were playing to one side or the other … but to have one that hit right in the middle, right at that time, was unreal.”
“When they saw J.D. Crowe’s name up front, and they knew that he had played banjo with Jimmy Martin on all those records they had loved for 20 years, it probably made some of those hard-edged fans pay more attention,” he said.
Whatever the dynamics of the time, The New South became synonymous with great bluegrass. And 0044 made Ian Tyson’s songs forever acceptable in bluegrass jams.
ON AND ON
Kristin Scott Benson, six-time IBMA Banjo Player of the Year, was born the year after 0044 came out. Benson said she was about nine the first time she saw J.D. Crowe. He was playing with the Bluegrass Album Band, “and that was a formative experience. That band was so explosive, and the crowd had an air of chaos, because everybody was so excited to hear the band. Every time Tony Rice ended a solo, you couldn’t hear any music.” (Because of the crowd noise.)
It would be four years until she picked up the banjo, and two more years until she learned about The New South album – and what it meant to a banjo player.
On 0044, she says, “If you just talk quintessential banjo solos, you’ve got ‘I’m Walkin’ and ‘You Are What I Am.’ His tone is aggressive. It’s just such confident, groovy, greasy, pristine banjo. It’s impossible to overstate how good it is and how influential it is.”
“But I think you should listen to his contributions on the less banjo-friendly songs [‘Home Sweet Home Revisited,’ ’10 Degrees’], because Crowe was great at that. He was a magical backup player.”
Billy Failing, who currently plays banjo with Billy Strings, agrees. Failing started out his banjo life drawn to more progressive players like Béla Fleck. But, he said, “As time goes on, the more I circle back to J.D. Crowe. I think of how much of a gold standard he is for bluegrass banjo, and how interesting his playing is.”
“He’s considered a traditional player,” Failing continued, “but then I’m always hearing some lick that surprises me. It’s been a gradual thing, but it becomes more meaningful as time goes on. I was just listening to The New South album, and on ‘Cryin’ Holy’ – it’s just so slamming! He’s turned it up to 11 constantly on that one.” And, like Benson, he points out what he calls Crowe’s “intricate touch” on banjo.
“It’s such a cool kind of push and pull between whether he’s out front or whether he’s playing backup … it catches your attention in such a cool way.”
Benson said, “It’s easy just to be drawn to those obvious picks [like ‘Old Home Place’] but the album is so much deeper than that. This particular band presented a tightness and a level of execution that was new – I don’t think there had been a bluegrass record up until that point that was so well done.”
“The vocals, the arrangements are so well thought out. Everybody’s playing so well together. It was just a special moment and a special group of people, and I think it raised the bar for bluegrass albums,” she said, and made an imprint on so many contemporary musicians.
Benson poses the question, “Who’s the most influential modern bluegrass guy? It would have to be Tony Rice, because he affected the genre with his rhythm guitar playing, which is phenomenal. And that type of rhythm playing affects the entire groove of the band. It became the new standard, what most people go for.”
“Never discount the importance of his rhythm,” she continued, “and then obviously his lead playing, but also his singing and his material choice … so if someone pinned me down and I could only name one, he might be the guy.”
Failing, speaking of his bandmates, said, “Everybody’s inspired by The New South. I hear Billy [Strings] constantly talking about his inspiration by Tony Rice, and Jarrod [Walker] by Ricky Skaggs.” (Walker wrote liner notes for the Real Gone Music re-release.)
Mullins noted that the Rice/Skaggs blend – a lead singer with a baritone-range voice coupled with a high tenor – established a hair-tingling blend that continues to be emulated, from Ronnie Bowman and Don Rigsby in Lonesome River Band through Alison Krauss’ duets with Dan Tyminski and Russell Moore.
Benson said, “It’s an important record for the genre as a whole, and it’s also an important record to me, personally, and really, to any banjo player who is serious about learning. It’s one of those essential albums.”
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
First, how did it come to be widely known as 0044? Well, nobody’s sure. Irwin and Levy remember being in the very early stages of their operations at the time – with both a new label and a new distribution company. All three Rounders had been totally immersed in music, but they were learning the business as they went, developing it on their own terms.
Levy speculated, “It is possible that it went back to when we were just calling records by their numbers,” when there just weren’t that many products. “So, it may have been something we started when we were talking, and other people picked up on it, not intentionally. And we thought it was sort of humorous.”
And how did members of Emmylou Harris’ Angel Band get left off the credits, as well as the fact that J.D. played guitar on it? John Lawless goes into depth in his fascinating Bluegrass Today article.
HAPPY 50TH BIRTHDAY
As the liner notes to the Real Gone Music re-release say, “Virtually no other album anywhere in history is known to its audience by its label number. Not Kind of Blue, nor Pet Sounds, Glenn Gould’s Goldberg Variations, none.”
That says quite a bit about the recording’s importance. So does the fact that two labels are issuing re-releases this year.
The Real Gone Music edition is pressed on gold-colored vinyl for its golden anniversary. Both re-releases contain two cuts not included on the original product: “Why Don’t You Tell Me So?” and a version of “Cryin Holy” with Emmylou’s voice in the mix.
Failing sums up what 0044, J.D. Crowe, and the musicians he surrounded himself with mean to him and to many of the pickers making the best music today.
“Every time I circle back to the Bluegrass Album Band, The New South, and J.D. Crowe, I’m reminded, ‘that’s how it’s done!’”
It is positively astounding to me that Special Consensus has been running the road for 50 years. When bass player Marc Edelstein and I decided to make the band a full-time entity, we thought it would be for two or three years and then we would return to “normal life.” Instead of getting the music bug out of my system over the years, traveling throughout our country and around the world only intensified my love of playing bluegrass music.
Been All Around This World is Special C’s 20th band record and our eighth on the Compass Records label. Our wonderful producer Alison Brown has helped raise the bar for the band – resulting in the band receiving eight IBMA Awards and two GRAMMY nominations.
Reflecting on the band’s golden anniversary, I looked back over our body of recordings and selected 15 songs that we are especially proud of – songs that received awards, that did very well on bluegrass music airplay charts, or consistently received (and continue to receive) requests at our live shows.
I appreciate this opportunity to present these songs from every era of the Special Consensus. It has been an honor to play banjo alongside such phenomenal musicians on these songs. I hope you will enjoy! – Greg Cahill, banjo player and founder
“Dream of Me” (1983; not on Spotify)
“Dream of Me” appeared on our Blue Northerns recording, released in 1983, and featured Chris Jones on guitar/lead vocal, Paul Kramer on mandolin/vocals, John Rice on electric bass/vocals and fiddle, and yours truly on banjo. Yes, electric bass! We were quite happy with the band sound for this second band recording – and who would not be happy when hearing Chris Jones sing every time we performed.
“Freight Train Boogie” (originally released 1986, re-recorded for 2000’s 25th Anniversary)
Released in 1986, this title song featured Dennis White on guitar, harmonica, and lead vocals, our honorary band member Ollie O’Shea on fiddle, Tim Wilson on mandolin/vocals, Scott Salak on acoustic bass, and yours truly on banjo/vocals. This song was requested for years, and we were very honored that our friend, the great Jethro Burns, wrote the liner notes for the album.
“Fourteen Carat Mind” (1991, re-recorded for 2010’s 35)
From our Hey, Y’all release, this track featured the fabulous singing of Dallas Wayne and always received a strong response. The song also featured Dallas on bass, Marty Marrone on guitar/vocals, Al Murphy on fiddle, Don Stiernberg on mandolin, and yours truly on banjo/vocals. The folks in Finland admired his voice as much as we did and lured him to their country to record and perform after hearing him on tour there with Special C. He and his wife lived there for seven years.
“Ten Mile Tennessee” (1996)
From our Strong Enough To Bend release in 1996, this featured the smooth lead vocals of guitarist Bobby Burns with Diana Phillips on bass, Colby Maddox on mandolin, and yours truly on banjo. This beautifully written song continues to be requested at our shows to this day and we are always happy to sing it.
“Another Day With The Blues” (1998)
“Another Day With The Blues” was brought to the band by Andrea Roberts, our bass player at the time, and she sang lead on the song that appeared on the 1998 Our Little Town recording. Chris Walz played guitar/vocals, Colby Maddox played mandolin, and I played banjo/vocals. We recorded the song in the key of C and Andrea wanted me to use the capo at 5th fret, but I did not want to do that. She felt it would sound much grassier, given the melody and flow of the song, so I relented, put the capo on the 5th fret, and it was the first Special C song to ever chart on the Bluegrass Unlimited Top 30 songs chart.
“Carolina in the Pines” (2010)
This was a massive “hit” song for Special C, from our 2010 Pinecastle Records release, Route 10. Josh Williams sang lead and played mandolin, Jamie Clifton played guitar/vocals, Tim Dishman played bass/vocals, and I played banjo. This song received so much attention that we are still referred to as the “Route 10 Band” – and we not only keep the song in the band stage repertoire, we recorded it again for the new Been All Around This World release.
“Today Has Been A Lonesome Day” (2005)
This song was always a show-stopper when Ron Spears sang it at the top of his lungs, usually at the end of a set. Although there were several songs on this 2005 Everything’s Alright recording that consistently received requests, Ron’s amazing singing on this song made it an event! Justin Carbone is on guitar, Tres Nugent is on bass, and I played banjo.
“Wild Montana Skies” (2014)
Included on the 2014 Compass Records Country Boy, A Bluegrass Tribute To John Denver recording, this track features mandolin player Rick Faris singing with Claire Lynch. Dustin Benson played guitar/vocals, Dan Eubanks played bass, Rock Ickes played Dobro, and I played banjo. This song became a favorite of our fans and received a lot of airplay. It also won the International Bluegrass Music Association’s Recorded Event of the Year award.
“She Took The Tennessee River” (2018)
This track comes from the 2018 Compass Records recording Rivers and Roads, which won the IBMA Award for Album of the Year and was GRAMMY-nominated for Best Bluegrass Album. Becky Buller and Jon Weisberger wrote the song and Becky played fiddle on the track along with Nick Dumas on mandolin/vocals, Rick Faris on guitar/vocals, Dan Eubanks on bass, and I played banjo. We were honored to have Bobby Osborne join us for a verse on this one.
“Squirrel Hunters” (2018)
Also from our Rivers and Roads album, “Squirrel Hunters” was one of John Hartford’s favorite tunes to play and, with the help of his daughter Katie, our producer Alison Brown, and some technology, John introduces the tune and plays the first fiddle solo on the recording. Rick Faris is featured on guitar, Nick Dumas on mandolin, and Dan Eubanks on bass along with Alison Brown on twin banjo and 10 String Symphony (Christian Sedelmyer and Rachel Baiman) on fiddles. This recording won the IBMA Collaborative Recording of the Year Award.
“Alberta Bound” (2023)
From our Great Blue North Compass Records release, this song spent a few months in the number 1 position on the Bluegrass Unlimited Top 30 Bluegrass Songs chart and shared the very first IBMA Video of the Year Award with Authentic Unlimited. We consistently receive requests for this song that features mandolin player Michael Prewitt on lead vocal with Greg Blake on guitar/ vocals, Dan Eubanks on bass/vocals, me on banjo along with our Canadian friends Ray Legere on fiddle and Pharis and Jason Romero, John Reischman, Patrick Sauber, and Trisha Gagnon on vocals. The song also won the IBMA Collaborative Event of the Year Award.
“Snowbird” (2023)
Also from the Great Blue North, this recording is one of our most requested songs and also appeared on the Bluegrass Unlimited Top 30 Bluegrass Songs chart. The recording features IBMA 2023 Male Vocalist of the Year Greg Blake on lead vocals and guitar, Michael Prewitt on mandolin/vocals, Dan Eubanks on bass/vocals, Claire Lynch on harmony vocals, and me on banjo. Beautiful song!
“What Am I Doin’ Hangin’ ‘Round” (2025)
Alison thought this Michael Martin Murphey song made popular by The Monkees would be a great showcase for Chris Jones’ smooth vocals. All of us loved the idea and we had a blast in the studio recording this one with Greg Blake trading lead vocals with Chris, and Rick Faris and Dallas Wayne joining Dan and Brian on harmony vocals.
“I’m Always On A Mountain When I Fall” (2025)
We really wanted to showcase Dallas Wayne’s fabulous vocals on the new project and what better way to do that than by featuring him on a song made popular by Merle Haggard. Dallas sang in country music clubs in Chicago for years before joining Special C and he left the band to lead a country band in Finland. When he stepped up to the mic and launched into the first verse, we all were literally spellbound. It was truly amazing to watch and hear him so effortlessly deliver such an incredible performance.
“Wish We Had Our Time Again” (2025)
This was the grand finale of sorts for our 50th anniversary album. Even though it’s about a past relationship, the sentiment in this John Hartford-penned song somehow seemed perfect for us. Standing next to former bandmates Chris, Dallas, Robbie, Rick, Josh and Ashby in the studio – people who have remained best friends over so many years – along with my more recent best friends Dan, Greg, and Brian, literally brought tears to my eyes. Made me realize how fortunate I have been to have these phenomenal musicians and producer Alison as best friends forever in my 50 years of making music “all around this world.”
Editor’s Note: Each issue of Good Country, our co-founder Ed Helms will share a handful of good country artists, albums, and songs direct from his own earphones in Ed’s Picks.
Born and raised in a border town in Texas, singer-songwriter William Beckmann perfectly illustrates how Mexican folk, Tejano music, and country have always been closely intertwined. Latin folk is Americana; mariachi and Norteño are country. With Good Country like his, that connectedness feels intuitive – and obvious. Beckmann’s new album arrives June 20.
Rhiannon Giddens & Justin Robinson, founding members of revered string band the Carolina Chocolate Drops, reunite on a new old-time album, What Did The Blackbird Say to the Crow, which celebrates North Carolina repertoire, fiddle, banjo, and front porch pickin’. I’m excited to join them both – and many other special guests like Steve Martin, Amythyst Kiah, Leyla McCalla, and more – at the Hollywood Bowl on June 18 for a special one-night-only edition of their Old-Time Revue.
“Uneasy listening” or “bluegrass soul,” whatever you call their style of music, the SteelDrivers are a bluegrass institution. Their new album, Outrun, is their first with Sun Records, an excellent label match for a group that combines bluegrass, blues, country, and soul with music that’s equally at home in Nashville, Memphis, Muscle Shoals, and beyond. Love this band of ringers!
There’s a new sort of Americana/country/Gen Z folk brewing between social media and music cities like Nashville, Chicago, and LA – and Jack Van Cleaf is at the center of its rise. Is it alt-country? Is it contemplative bedroom folk? Is it indie rock? Is it singer-songwriter Americana? It’s all of the above. Check out his latest LP, JVC, to discover your own terms for his striking style.
My old pals Andrew and Emily were a pick last year when they guested on “Pink Skies” on Zach Bryan’s smash hit album, The Great American Bar Scene. Now they’re back with a full-length album of their own, Rituals, out today! We’ve been covering and collaborating with Watchhouse for over a decade, so stay tuned for more celebrations of the new record coming soon to BGS and Good Country.
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Photo Credits: William Beckmann by Connor Robertson; Rhiannon Giddens & Justin Robinson by Karen Cox; The SteelDrivers by Glenn Rose; Jack Van Cleaf by Joseph Wasilewski; Watchhouse by Jillian Clark.
Tim O’Brien & Jan Fabricius‘ new album, Paper Flowers, represents something of a double collaboration. While O’Brien has achieved many accomplishments in his long career, Paper Flowers stands as his first official album collaboration with his wife, Jan, although she has written and performed with him over the past decade.
Secondly, Paper Flowers is the result of the couple’s ongoing collaboration with the legendary singer-songwriter Tom Paxton. Twelve of the album’s 15 songs are the product of these regular Zoom sessions. Paxton had known the couple for years from traveling in similar musical circles, but their virtual songwriting dates arose after mutual friends Cathy Fink and Jon Weisberger asked O’Brien and Fabricius if they would consider co-writing a song with Paxton for the Bluegrass Sings Paxton project that they were then just getting off the ground.
The first song the three of them wrote together, “You Took Me In,” wound up on that 2024 release. “We wrote the song really quickly and we’re really happy about it,” O’Brien shared on a phone call between concerts with Fabricius in New Mexico. “It did jump start the process.”
O’Brien has found this collaborative process particularly productive. “Writing songs on your own, for me, sometimes I labor over them for months,” he elaborates. “But with a co-write, it seems like your time is precious. The idea that you’re together in the same space…and you want to get to the crux really as quickly as possible. And in general, it’s a liberating process. It’s like fishing. You’re pulling these things out of the water and you see, ‘Oh, there’s a good one. Here’s a good, good size one.’”
You can easily sense the musical liberation on Paper Flowers. The album stands as perhaps O’Brien’s most musically diverse work across his celebrated career. While still securely rooted in an acoustic foundation, the record contains a variety of music styles, including the boogie-woogie jaunt “Blacktop Rag Top,” the gospel-tinged “Back To Eden,” and the New Wave-y rocker “Down to Burn.” Fabricius discovered that these songwriting sessions can lead to some interesting results.
“It amazes me how we’ll have an idea and then by the time the whole song’s molded and done, it may be totally different, take you down a different path than you thought you were going,” she says. One example of this twisty path of songwriting came when the couple shared with Paxton the story of an armadillo that they were battling in the yard of their Nashville home – including the animal’s miraculous escape from a raccoon trap. Paxton, who was at a laundromat at the time, immediately saw it as a song premise. The highly comical “Lonesome Armadillo” relates the misadventures of an armadillo that’s stranded in a laundromat. It’s trying to bum a quarter to get back to Amarillo after failed attempts to become a Nashville music star, including getting kicked out of the Ernest Tubb Record Shop and not getting to meet award-winning bassist (and longtime O’Brien collaborator) Mike Bub.
Fabricius also credits Paxton for coming up with a key lyrical detail – a peanut butter sandwich – in “Covenant,” a heartbreaking song about parents losing a child in a school shooting that was inspired by the 2023 Covenant School tragedy in Nashville. She recalls, “When he said, ‘Well, let’s say this kid has got a peanut butter sandwich in the backpack,’ at first I thought: ‘Huh?’ And then I thought, ‘Oh boy, that really does bring the reality to it.’ We’re just putting ourselves into the parents’ shoes a little bit, you know, and what can you say? It’s hard to put the words to it, so less was more.” O’Brien adds that these “visual references and physical details are sometimes better than trying to moralize or anything.” He also drew a parallel to the subtleties involved in cooking: “If you make cornbread, you don’t want to stir it up too much. It doesn’t work as well if you stir it up too much.”
Detailed lyric writing is something Paxton very much believes in. “It’s not just a tree; it’s an oak tree,” Paxton believes. “It’s not just a street, it’s Cornwall Street. You get them closer to life when you notice the particulars of life and the sandwich in the kid’s backpack is a given and it’s up to you to see it.”
The importance of details also was central in the creation of the track, “Yellow Hat.” Paxton came to one session stating that he wanted to write a song about a hat. Not just any hat, but a yellow hat. This sense of specificity certainly lent an air of realism to the tune, which deals with a couple aging gracefully. The lyrics come off as being so relatable and authentic that people think it is about O’Brien and Fabricius. O’Brien says that he has alerted audiences that it is not them in the song by announcing: “This is about an old couple, not us; (they’re) moving out of their house, not our house.”
“He hasn’t bought me a yellow hat!” Fabricius chimes in.
Paxton, in fact, often arrives to the Zoom with a premise or a phrase that he is eager to work on. Fabricius recalls him saying: “’This idea has been driving me nuts all week. It’s about a guy who really loves his wife but all he does is complain about her.’ And we were off and running.” After coming up with lyrics for this premise, O’Brien and Fabricius realized the next day that the song was very husband-sided, so they wrote a verse from the wife’s perspective. “And (Tom) was really happy with it,” Fabricius reveals. And well, he should be. The tune, “This Gal Of Mine” sits nicely with Tennessee Ernie Ford/Kay Starr’s “You’re My Sugar” and John Prine/Iris Dement’s “In Spite Of Ourselves” as a classic battling couples country tune.
There are times too when ideas come out of nowhere – or close to nowhere. At one of their virtual meetups, O’Brien was sitting around riffing on the guitar and, as he recalls, “Tom says, ‘Boy, the more you play that, the more it sounds like you’re playing ‘fat pile of puppies.’” And thus, the song “Fat Pile of Puppies” was born. While the tune may initially sound like a light romp simply about adorable little dogs, “Fat Pile of Puppies” (at one time considered for the album’s title) holds a deceptive depth to it. The crucial lyric “Falling in love is what I fear” could easily be describing the emotions for another human as much as for a dog.
“It’s kind of a love song in a way,” Fabricius confides. The writing of this song also came as O’Brien and she were still mourning the loss of their 17-year-old dog; however, they have since acquired a new pup named Nellie Kane (yes, after the O’Brien-penned Hot Rize track).
Real-life inspirations serve as the source for several other songs on this album. “Father of the Bride,” for example, was written for Fabricius’ son when his daughter was getting married. The humorous “Atchison” was inspired by a trip the couple took to Kansas, where Fabricius is from. She has a cousin who actually lives in Atchison, and during the visit, O’Brien exclaimed: “I have never been to Atchison.” The phrase stuck in their heads, giving rise to the album’s catchy lead-off track, which not only references the great train tune “On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe,” but also affords O’Brien the opportunity to break out a Jimmie Rodgers-like yodel.
It’s not surprising, however, that the couple wound up choosing “Paper Flowers” as their title track, because it serves as something like their courting song. The tune came about after they came across O’Brien’s old notebooks (the “little $2 notebooks you could put in your shirt pocket,” as he described them) in which he had written his early love notes to her. Fabricius saved the postcards and paper flowers that he had sent her. One of the notes contained the sentence: “one for you and one for me and one for the miles in between,” which got transformed into one of the song’s key lines.
“We still have the paper flowers on the mantle,” Fabricius shares. “And they made for good cover art.”
The tracks that the couple wrote without Paxton, “I Look Good in Blue” and “Down to Burn,” are both true stories, although not drawn from their own lives. “I Look Good in Blue” is a gin-soaked portrait of a honky-tonk piano player whose family told O’Brien and Fabricius about this woman whose wish was to “save that (Bombay) Sapphire bottle and pour my ashes in.” Another song drenched in alcohol, “Down to Burn” was written after the couple encountered a quintet of drunk women on a “girlfriends’ getaway.” The tune, which exudes an ’80s New Wave party vibe, provided O’Brien the chance to dust off his electric guitars. “The great part is seeing Tim in our music room putting electric guitar on (the song). He had more fun with that,” Fabricius shares. O’Brien admits, “I sweated over it more than I had fun. I did enjoy that. I have several electric guitars, and I don’t know how to operate them, and it made me try to learn more. I kind of got a couple of them working pretty good.”
O’Brien has won two GRAMMYs and made a lot of music in his over 50 years as a professional musician. Toward the end of our conversation, he shared some of his thoughts about the role of music and musicians in society. “The music is, in a broader sense, like the human song. It’s like creative force, like a tree growing or grass growing. It’s going to happen and we’re the vehicles – the musicians – the people who play music and we just organize it in some way to let it be there…
“The human race could not function without music,” he continues. “It’s used for various things. It’s used for ceremony. It’s used for dancing. It’s used for entertainment. It’s used for communication… I mean Bob Dylan, he wrote ‘Blowing in the Wind.’ He was writing what he saw, what was already going on. It wasn’t like he invented that. He’s the channel.” O’Brien then paused before adding, “It’s a nice thing to be in the channel and kind of push it along.”
Chances are you’ve cultivated a few personal routines to help you navigate the world: one for daily life, one for weekly, monthly, and so on. There’s also likely a handful of individual habits that affect how you choose to go about your routine. The former, at times, can influence the latter, fitting within each other like a pair of nesting dolls, adjacent and similar in their roles.
Then there are rituals. Though these three recurring sets of actions – routines, habits, and rituals – would seem like easily overlapping bedfellows, rituals carry an intrinsic quality the other two lack: mindfulness. Rituals bear a sense of intention like the other two, but it’s often coupled with an element of symbolism or custom. It’s not just a matter of doing something and saying it’s done; there are other connotations or expectations that may influence why doing it matters.
Holding this notion in mind, it’s Rituals that Andrew Marlin and Emily Frantz of North Carolina duo Watchhouse have decided to name their new album. Through its 11 tracks, the married musicians posit an abundance of questions and actions, their contemplations placed in settings that are as clear as a simple back porch and as abstract as a space “through the looking glass,” “beyond this to and fro.” Settings that exist outside of not only any kind of routine, but separate from time and space all together.
Though Watchhouse’s new writings don’t seem to present rituals in their conventional form, the title still feels wholly appropriate. Marlin and Frantz’s reflections, wistful pining, and open-ended ruminations don’t lead to a sense of clear, expected structure that rituals would traditionally provide, but each song is lined with an abundance of intention, mindfulness, and hope for various outcomes. Sometimes these are overtly stated – Oh,I’m dreaming of a life with you in the sun/ And I hope our time together has only just begun… – and sometimes they are dressed in metaphors: Go fire your cannonball, go and fire away/ When the ashes fall we’ll start a brand new day.
There are defined ideas that Watchhouse put forth on the album: identity and awareness, the distinction between patterns and truths, how to develop a positive relationship with change, and what it means to evolve. All the same, while our internal responses to these songs may change over time, the very act of revisiting, replaying, and reconsidering their meanings, and how we are affected by them, can be a form of ritual in its own way.
Amid an extensive tour that will take them all over the U.S. and into Canada through summer and fall, Watchhouse spoke with BGS about their collaborative dynamic, how their individual artistic instincts influence the direction of a song, and the prevalence of duality in the album – as well as in their lives.
It’s been about four years since your last album and eight years since both your lives changed from bandmates to family. Given that Rituals focuses on patterns and the perception of change on our lives, how has the ever-growing longevity of your union in marriage — and all the ways marriage transforms a relationship on its own — changed the way you perceive and interact with the music making process?
Andrew Marlin: When you hit the road and join forces with other people to play music, it’s kind of like stepping outside of the norm and stepping outside of the daily life to go up there and almost take on a role or take on a character in order to get inside the music. You kind of just forget everything that the day often requires of you, because all of a sudden those requirements aren’t there. It’s just the stage and the music and the people that are there rooting for you to go deep, you know?
I think finding that zone with Emily has had its challenges in the past, because we’re so closely tied to each other. We raise kids together and we live together, and so doing all this traveling together and playing music together too, it makes it harder – or made it harder for me at the beginning, I think – to leave the daily routine and expectations behind on stage and just shed all of that and take on that character. It’s one thing to look at your bandmates’ eyes and get a little nod or whatever’s happening during the music. It’s kind of like this understanding of, “I’m not here right now. This is just me playing music.”
Getting to that zone with Emily, now that we’re 16 years into it, has taken a while to get to that point to where it’s an acceptance of all of it, instead of just leaving things behind to get on stage. It’s like we’re carrying all of it with us at all points in time. People that come to see us get a real and honest version of ourselves, trying to go deep in the music but also being completely aware of each other too.
Emily Frantz: I was just thinking about how much things changed in 2020 and 2021, living our mundane day-to-day lives in our house, and the transition back into being on the road again and touring. We’ve obviously been doing that for a few years now since COVID, but that experience made us relearn what the relationship is between our daily life at home and touring and [figuring out] how can they coexist in a healthy way.
Ironically, the album’s opening track, “Shape,” avoids the traditional shape or structure of a song (all verses, no chorus) while the actual narrative of the song embraces ideas that lean into a sense of purgatory and a nebulous state of being — the very opposite of what would help establish a sense of shape, boundaries, identity, direction, patterns, or truths. What were the mental and emotional motivations that inspired you to take the song in this direction?
AM: It’s like establishing the shape or the pattern in order to separate yourself from it. That’s what a lot of those verses are doing, kind of outlining the things that often make me feel like I’m in a box and I’m trying to get outside of that box. The only way to do it – because there’s no real form to it – is to imagine the parameters, imagine the spaces that it ends up kind of confining you in, in order to step outside of those [boxes]. I think that was the intention with “Shape.”
EF: And the way that “Shape” came into its final form, at least final the way it appears on the record, was a lot of the things that you said about it: It didn’t ever really conform and it got rearranged and had things added and taken away from it so many times, a lot more so than other songs. But it always did feel like the backbone of this record in a lot of ways, which is why it felt really right as the opening track of this record.
AM: If there was a shape to define that song, I’d say it’s a spiral.
How have you fit rituals into your lives and have they helped you maintain a sense of stable continuity as a family and as musicians?
AM: I feel like since having kids, the day has taken so much more form. Because I think that, and Emily [is] really brilliant about this, giving structure to the day is super helpful for them. So that they don’t have to wonder what’s happening, so that they can really pay attention to what is happening. I’ve watched both of our kids blossom in that environment. Emily’s really good about helping to create that and make sure we stick to it. Carrying that on the road has been really helpful, too and something that I didn’t realize I was going to benefit very much from. Because I definitely, when left to my own devices, am like a sheet left out to dry – just flapping in the wind. To have a little bit of structure to the day, and have to enter into these mental zones with the kiddos, has added a lot of mental structure to my existence. I think that’s the biggest thing for me.
And within that, it’s about realizing what the day actually requires of me, instead of what I imagined today to be expecting of me. Finding those real anchors and a little more gravity to the things I’m working on have helped me shed old expectations of myself and what I think I’m supposed to be doing. I think that’s what led us to be okay with changing the band name and changing up some of the sounds and approaching this thing we’ve been doing for a long time in a whole new way.
EF: I think the thing that we are [focusing on] 16 years in is finding where the balance is between freedom and artistic expression, and also just daily life and figuring out how to have those two things like coexist and make each other better and not be in a constant sort of push and pull.
The first verse in “Beyond Meaning” is intriguing. The statement of your “gentle” disposition is nice, but its seemingly conditional nature gives pause — particularly when considering that life is noisy and out of our control more often than not. What is it that you’re trying to say about your own identity and awareness of how you cope with the noise and bustle of everyday living?
AM: I feel like what I was getting at is to view it as though it’s external noise. But it’s actually internal noise. That’s often the thing that keeps me from my peace and keeps me from being gentle. It’s my own defenses and my own self-consciousness that end up creating all of this noise. It paints the external noise in a negative light. When I can control that and remember to keep my own defenses at bay and be open and actually present, the idea that maybe this external noise is not a malicious one keeps me gentle and then often what comes from that is a gentle interaction. So it’s more about controlling the internal noise in order to actually experience the external factors.
Out of the 11 songs on the album, Emily is the primary vocalist only for “Firelight.” Why was Emily the right fit to sing the story of this one song? And more broadly, what went into your shared thought process on when, and for how long, you two would sing together? Is it a purely harmony and arrangement-based decision, or do the emotions of a song influence how each vocal arrangement is structured?
EF: A lot of times it can be pretty cut and dry. If we’re deciding who should sing lead on a song, it might just have to do with the range or the key, where we think it sounds good. Sometimes that plays into it maybe even more than the lyrics or the subject matter. With Andrew doing the songwriting, he’s always been more of the primary lead vocalist. Oftentimes, by the time we’re arranging a tune and finding out how we want to present it, it’s very cemented in his voice. But then a lot of times, there will be tunes that we’re struggling with and we’re not quite finding it. By switching out who’s singing, it reframes the whole song and allows us to not just change the lead vocalist, but to find a whole different zone for the song in terms of what we hear and how it gets arranged and recorded. That was the case with “Firelight.” We had so many different versions of that song over the years leading up to recording – different time signatures, different instrumentation – and that was one of the last ones that came together for this album. Most of it got done after the initial tracking session because we were searching on it for a long time and I think I like it more and more the longer I sit with it, the more I hear it.
AM: Often people do want to know why Emily’s not singing more tunes or why the roles are what they are. But I think it’s really important to shine a little light on what Emily does behind the scenes when she’s not singing. The way she plays rhythm and plays violin or whatever instrument she’s on, it ends up being this anchor for everyone in the band. The way that offers complete structure to what we’re doing and allows everything else to sway around that a little bit, I feel like even when she’s not singing, her musical voice is such a strong presence in the music. I’ve heard her say this before, like when she’s playing violin, she’d rather not sing lead because it’s almost like having to sing with two voices. That became part of the structure of what we’ve been doing all along, not just with the lead vocal. The feel of the song and the rhythm and the chord structure and the flow of it all often is hinged on what Emily ends up doing. I think that’s just as important as her taking a lead vocal.
EF: I’ve really, over the years of us playing music together, come around to enjoying singing lead when we find the song that feels good in my range. But for the most part, I’d rather be singing harmony to Andrew and that definitely brings me just as much, if not more, fulfillment than singing lead on a song.
“Endless Highway (Pt. 1)” and “Sway / Endless Highway (Pt. 2)” leave a much heavier state of reflection than that of “Patterns,” the song you chose as the album’s finale. Were the lighter tone of the music and the lyrics a driving factor for why these last three songs are in this order? Did you want to avoid an ending that leaves the listener with a more uncertain emotional state?
AM: I’ll start off by saying Ryan Gustafson, who produced this record with us, actually ended up coming up with this track order. Having not listened to it that way and then taking Ryan’s perspective on it, it was like being able to listen to these songs in their entirety for the first time. All of a sudden, I was getting feelings from these recordings that I hadn’t gotten yet.
“Endless Highway (Pt. 1)” is a heavier song and talks about a really traumatic event that Emily and I went through and that long drone at the end of it kind of dances around the dread of that. Then into “Sway,” it’s more of a coming out of that [feeling]. How do we peek our heads out of the hole once we’ve gone down and slowly crawl back out? To finally get into “Endless Highway (Pt. 2),” where it feels like a real revelation and a real triumphant part of the record? So, you get to the top of the mountain on this song. But I do believe that while those revelations come, we get to the top of those mountains, everything’s clear, and there’s so much lightness and clarity around us, we still have to wake up the next morning, make coffee, make breakfast, get kids to school, go and run errands and carry that little mountain of revelation with us everywhere we go.
I think that the heaviness and the profoundness of that idea ends up giving way to these smaller, mundane parts of our life. That’s what “Patterns” feels like to me. It’s an admission that if we can hold on to those little revelations and the clarity they offered us, hopefully it’ll keep us light by offering us that little reminder of hope.
EF: Going back to what Andrew was just saying about having these big events or these heavy, emotional things happen, and then having to go on with our lives, and the push and pull of that – there’s frustration and beauty in it. I love the order of those [last few] tracks, because I feel both the “Endless Highways” and “Sway” are songs that were written in the middle of this album being written and there’s a lot of anguish from a lot of different sources in those songs. And then “Patterns” was the last song that was written for the album before we recorded it, so it feels like it has a certain clarity to it. Going down in the trench and making your way back up, even though it’s still really just posing a lot of the same questions [as the beginning of the album], but from a more settled state of mind.
What truths about yourselves and how you view the world have you discovered and accepted since finishing Rituals? How many of the questions you’ve posed through these songs do you feel you’ve managed to settle on answers for?
AM: I don’t think I would often look closely enough at how I was making a person feel, as much as I would look at the way the person was. I think that’s becoming more of my truth these days, just to trust that showing up open-minded with awareness and consciousness, focused on experiencing rather than projecting, is probably the closest to any truths that have come out of writing these songs and getting to the end of this record. The takeaway is that it’s not like we found answers, necessarily.
EF: It’s all just a pursuit, always.
AM: You know, it’s not always about finding answers. It’s about finding out–
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