‘Urban Cowboy’ at 40: How a Mechanical Bull Changed Mickey Gilley’s Life

Mickey Gilley admits he wasn’t keen on the idea of installing a mechanical bull at his namesake honky-tonk on the outskirts of Houston, Texas. Nor is he shy about admitting just how wrong he was. That rodeo training device transformed Gilley’s Club into a cultural force. “The mechanical bull was never meant to be in an entertainment establishment like ours,” says the 84-year-old country star. “I thought it was a mistake, but it turned out to be a blessing. Without the mechanical bull, we never would have gotten that film with John Travolta.”

Every night there was a line for the mechanical bull. Demand was so high they installed a second bull and briefly considered buying the rights to the device in order to market it to honky-tonks around the country. Those would-be cowboys — called Gilleyrats after their favorite gathering spot — would compete to see who could stay on the bucking bull the longest, and that contest became the centerpiece of James Bridges’ 1980 film Urban Cowboy, featuring John Travolta in his follow-up to Saturday Night Fever. Exchanging the New York City discos for this dusty, Lone Star honky-tonk, he stars as Bud Davis, a small-town kid who moves to the big city and becomes a master of the mechanical bull.

The film culminates in a showdown with his nemesis, played by Scott Glenn, over the affections of a scene-stealing Debra Winger. As drama goes, this test of saddle skill is anticlimactic, as there is nothing at stake beyond macho pride. Bud isn’t fighting to escape his life (as his character in Fever did) nor to stay at Gilley’s. He’s just fighting. Though never quite satisfying as drama, Urban Cowboy is still fascinating 40 years later as a documentary about Gilley’s and the particular culture that grew up around it.

Gilley and his business partner, Sherwood Cryer, opened the place in 1970. At the time Gilley was only a regional star, with his own TV show in Houston and enough name recognition to open a club. (Being cousins with both Jerry Lee Lewis and Jimmy Swaggart didn’t hurt, either.) In 1974 he had a surprise hit with “Room Full of Roses,” which only brought more attention to his honky-tonk. He played there regularly and invited friends to fill in for him when he was on the road. The place grew into something like a theme park, with a dance floor roughly the size of a football field, several bars, tons of games, even a rodeo arena. “This place is bigger than my whole hometown,” Travolta’s character says when he first steps foot in the place.

Urban Cowboy captures the energy of Gilley’s Club in frenetic long takes that put you right at the bar or out on the dance floor. You can almost smell the sawdust and beer. Gilley even performs during a couple of scenes, as does Charlie Daniels, and the shots of couples shuffling across the floor in tight, fluid choreography are among the film’s highlights.

By the time a suspicious fire destroyed Gilley’s in 1990, the place and the film had already left a deep impression in popular culture. It introduced western wear as high fashion: tight jeans and big hats worn by guys who never rode the range (or a bull, for that matter), but still bought into the mythos of the American cowboy. And its soundtrack, featuring Bonnie Raitt, Boz Scaggs, and Kenny Rogers, peaked at No. 3 on the Billboard Hot 100 and produced chart-topping country singles such as “Lookin’ for Love” by Johnny Lee, “Could I Have This Dance” by Anne Murray, and “Stand by Me” by Gilley himself.

For our latest Roots on Screen column, we chatted with the club’s namesake about accidentally recording a hit single, flying with Travolta, and assaulting the sausage king.

BGS: How did you get to a point where you could open a massive honky-tonk with your name on it?

Gilley: I grew up in Louisiana and got two famous cousins, Jerry Lee Lewis and Rev. Jimmy Swaggart. Jerry Lee was my hero, because without him I probably wouldn’t have gotten in the music business. He came to Houston in ’57 and I saw how well he was doing. I was working construction making $1.25 an hour and that’s when I threw my hat in the ring. Seventeen years later I cut “Room Full of Roses” by mistake and it turned out to be my first No. 1 song. After that I got to tour with Conway and Loretta and next thing I knew John Travolta came knocking on my door. Everything broke loose.

How does somebody cut a hit single by accident?

I had a little TV show in the Houston market. One night I walked into Gilley’s and the lady who had the jukebox called me over and says, “Today on your TV show you did my favorite song, ‘She Called Me Baby All Night Long.’” It’s a Harlan Howard tune. She told me she’s in the jukebox business and if I would record that song, she’d put it on every one of her jukeboxes. I said, “Ma’am, I ain’t made a record in probably three years. The show is doing well. The club is doing well. I don’t really make records anymore.” She said, “Just make that one song for me.”

Well, as you know, back then they had 45s and you had to have an A side and a B side. I went in to cut “She Called Me Baby All Night Long” and for the flip side, I picked “Room Full of Roses.” It’s an old George Morgan song from the late ‘40s or early ‘50s. Lorrie Morgan’s father. I started the arpeggio on the piano and got maybe 30 seconds into it and then stopped. My bass guitar player looked over and said, “What’d you quit for?” I told him it sounded too much like Jerry Lee. And he says, “Who cares? Nobody’s going to hear it. It’s a B side!” So I recorded it. Didn’t think anything about it.

I took the record around to radio stations where we were buying time to advertise the club — “Gilley’s! 4500 Spencer Highway! Pasadena, Texas!” — and I asked if they would play the record when they did the spot on the club. I remember Bruce Nelson at WKNR asked me which side I wanted him to play. I said, “Either side you want. Doesn’t matter to me.” He looked at both sides and said, “I think I like that flower song.” He played it and it shot up the charts. Playboy Records picked it up and took it national for me in 1974.

What was a typical night like at Gilley’s during its heyday?

After the film Urban Cowboy came out, it was packed every night. I never seen anything like it in my life. It went on for about three and a half years. It was totally jam-packed, seven nights a week. People wanted to be a part of what it was all about. They just came out to have a good time. We had a lot of things in the club you could do, too. We had the two mechanical bulls, plus we had quite a few pool tables spread out through the club. Pinball. Punching bags… you know, things of that nature that people would get a kick out of.

How many stages did you have?

We had just the one big stage for music. Of course, my business partner built a rodeo arena back in ’85 or ’86 and hitched it onto the club, because he wanted to stay ahead of Billy Bob’s down in Fort Worth. The concerts we had in there worked out pretty good, because we had Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, George Jones, George Strait. People like that do real good in a rodeo arena, but other than that, it was just a big building that we didn’t need.

How often were you playing the regular stage?

I worked the club up until 1985. But I got into a squabble with him about the way the club was running and what was going on, and we got in a lawsuit. I got the club closed down, I got my name off of it, and later it was set on fire and burned. It was arson, but I don’t know who did it, you know? It went up in flames and no more Gilley’s in Pasadena, Texas. But we have a Gilley’s in Treasure Island in Vegas. We have two in Oklahoma and one in Dallas.

What do you remember about filming at Gilley’s?

The main thing I remember was that we had to do it during the day, daylight hours, because we operated the club at night as the regular nightclub. They closed all the doors and tried to make it as dark as they could. I remember the director hollering, “More smoke! More smoke!” to make it look more like a night at the club. They’d start early in the morning and go all day, shooting the parts they had to have. I never had been in a film of that caliber before, so it was different for me. But it was fun.

Was the Urban Cowboy Band something you put together especially for the film?

We had a band there that was playing the club, but I took them on the road with me and renamed them the Urban Cowboy Band when the film came out. Paramount Pictures told me it was OK to use it, so that’s what we did. We were awarded a Grammy for the song “Orange Blossom Special,” which I played piano on. But there were some great songs in the film. “Hello Texas” was written by a Texas guy by the name of Brian Collins and sung by Jimmy Buffett. That’s a great song. We also had Charlie Daniels doing “The Devil Went Down to Georgia” in the film.

Your version of “Stand by Me” was a big hit as well.

It was originally recorded by Ben E. King and written by Leiber and Stoller. The song was brought in by the producer, who was wanting to do what he called a “grudge dance” in the film. They picked “Stand by Me” and asked me to do the song. I was a little reluctant but the arrangement they put on it made it a different song than the Ben E. King version. When we got the song recorded, people were raving about it, and it turned out to be a hit. Now I close my shows with it.

What was it like having someone like John Travolta in your club every day? What was he like to work with?

Well, the one thing that John and I had in common was we both loved aviation. At the time, he was working on his pilot’s license, and I got to fly with him. I was so excited about the fact that I was getting to fly with the star of Urban Cowboy. He had just come off of Saturday Night Fever and Grease, so I’m in awe. I’m just an old country boy that’s had quite a few No. 1 songs, but I never had the popularity John Travolta had. He was working on his pilot’s license at the time, so I went up with him a few times. He went on to fly the big jets, which I’m sure is exciting for him. I never got that far in my career. I got to fly some jets, but they were like the LearJet and the Citation — nothing like the 747 he was flying.

How did the success of that movie and the soundtrack change your career?

It changed my life, because the record company put me with a different producer and he started picking songs like “You Don’t Know Me,” “That’s All That Matters to Me,” “Headache Tomorrow (Heartache Tonight),” and “Put Your Dreams Away.” They were all hits for me and opened more doors for me, as far as casino dates in Reno, Vegas, and Atlantic City. I wasn’t just known as a honky-tonk piano player anymore. I was known as a country performer and it gave me a little more clout. I got to play for two presidents. They gave me a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, invited me to come to Hollywood and do some acting roles, and I did The Fall Guy, Fantasy Island, The Dukes of Hazzard, and Murder, She Wrote. I had a scene in Murder, She Wrote where I grab Jimmy Dean, the sausage king! I grab him by the collar and shake him. Sometimes I show that clip in my show and say, “Look at that! I’m trying to shake the sausage out of Jimmy Dean!”

You’re still playing a lot of those songs from Urban Cowboy on tour, right?

Johnny Lee and I have done well by doing the music from that soundtrack and we called it the Urban Cowboy Reunion Tour. I wish we could have gotten more people involved, maybe Charlie Daniels or Bonnie Raitt. But we did pretty good just the two of us. I remember playing a casino down in Louisiana, and at the end of the show I looked at Johnny and said, “Do you realize those people out there dancing wasn’t even born when we did the film?” I think they come out here to see if we’re still alive!


Photo credit: Courtesy of 117 Entertainment

BGS 5+5: Sarah Siskind

Artist: Sarah Siskind
Hometown: Brevard, North Carolina
Latest album: Modern Appalachia

Which artist has influenced you the most … and how?

I would say my biggest overall influence is The Story, which was an alt-folk duo out of Cambridge, Massachusetts in the ‘90s consisting of Jonatha Brooke and Jennifer Kimball. My dad used to bring cassettes home from the library of albums he would read reviews about and pass along ones to me he thought I’d like.

At the time I was way into Indigo Girls and Tracy Chapman (about age 13 or so), so when he first gave me Grace in Gravity by The Story, it unnerved me a little. But, then I woke up one morning and had to listen to it on repeat or I thought I’d die! So I listened to it on repeat. For years. The songs on that album are ingrained in me now. Dissonant harmonies. Bold chord changes. Strong female perspectives.

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

My favorite memory on-stage is when Bonnie Raitt asked me to sing “Angel From Montgomery” with her as a duet for the first time… and then after… she handed her guitar to me and said, “Play one of yours.” I’ll never forget that feeling. I felt like I was flying.

What rituals do you have, either in the studio or before a show?

The most effective ritual for me is to straight up pray. I ask God for peace of mind and for blessings over every note that comes out of my mouth. For Him to guide the show and for me to be a vessel. I also do some floor stretches if I can. When I toured with Paul Brady, I had a mix on my phone I would listen to before every show and it was Snatum Kaur, Lauryn Hill, and Mahalia Jackson; I would do stretches as I sang along.

Which elements of nature do you spend the most time with and how do those impact your work?

Water, definitely. The county where I live in North Carolina has the most waterfalls per capita in the country. However, I absolutely love rivers. When I’m really stuck, or having a rough day, I go to either the Davidson or French Broad River in Brevard, North Carolina, and trail run or just sit and pontificate. Watching the movement of water brings me back to center. The sound even more so. It reminds me how ultimately small we are in the big picture and that this vast earth was created through suffering way bigger than mine.

Since food and music go so well together, what is your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

I love this question. I’m a closet chef. If I could have dinner with any musician, I would have a big southern meal of pulled pork, greens, and pintos with Danny Barnes.


Photo credit: Brian Boskind

MIXTAPE: Penny & Sparrow’s Songs Begging to Be Covered

From Joe Cocker covering The Beatles, Bon Iver covering Bonnie Raitt, Glen Hansard covering The Pixies, and many, many more, WE LOVE COVER SONGS. In fact, one of the most commonly had tour van conversations is “What should we cover next?” (And we deliberate that almost daily.) The art of taking someone else’s song and making it your own is difficult and praise-worthy. … THUS, when The Bluegrass Situation asked us to cultivate a playlist, we knew exactly where to go. So here it is, dear friend!! A list of songs — in our opinion — that are begging to be covered.” — Andy Baxter and Kyle Jahnke, Penny and Sparrow

Eagles – “New Kid in Town”

Like a lot of Eagles tunes, “New Kid in Town” manages to have emotional depth WITH a hook that’s catchy as hell. Not a lot of folks can do that. They did it over and over again. It reminds me of “Fun Times in Babylon” and for that reason I must have Father John Misty cover this as soon as possible. Please make that happen for me, FJM. You would sound delightful. (Andy)

Willie Nelson – “Buddy”

This song was on Parks and Recreation and it made the reconciliation of Leslie and Ron one of the most iconic scenes in TV history. For the month after, I listened to it over and over and over again. After 30 days of it I started to imagine who I wanted to hear cover it. I landed on one of two extremely recognizable (and lovely) voices: Ashley Monroe or Anaïs Mitchell. Please Universe, hear my cry. (Andy)

John Denver – “Sunshine on My Shoulders”

I would love to hear this covered by someone like Daniel Caesar. The melody with some R&B voicing would sound insane. (Kyle)

Miya Folick – “Thingamajig”

This song is admittedly new for me and (before it came along) it had been more than a year since a song made me cry on first listen. This one undid me. Eight straight listens and now I might die unless I hear I’M WITH HER cover this damn song in three-part harmony. (Andy)

Ace of Base – “Don’t Turn Around”

I love a good ‘80s/’90s jam saddened by some sad indie folk. Thinking if James Vincent McMorrow took this and pitched it to his gorgeous falsetto I would listen on every rainy morning and cry just a little. Maybe give it to Jason Isbell and let him turn it into an Americana masterpiece. (Kyle)

Alvvays – “Archie, Marry Me”

A friend of ours called this song a “We’ll be young forever” anthem. It toes some strange line between the grunge pop of “Cherry Bomb” and the new age sad rock of Phoebe Bridgers. I love it and really really wanna hear a slickly crooned version by Sam Smith. Take all my money Sam, just get it done. (Andy)

George Strait – “Lovesick Blues”

I love the yodeling in this one. Basically I want Miley Cyrus to imitate Dolly Parton imitating a ‘90s George Strait. I love this track. (Kyle)

Slim Whitman – “Rose Marie”

This one feels unfairly unknown. How this song got lost in the shuffle of history is beyond us but I damn sure wanna hear The Kernal or Robert Ellis do a version! (Andy)

All-4-One – “So Much in Love”

This could either be an Ariana Grande acapella jam, or in my wildest dreams a Simon & Garfunkel reunion where they folk harmonize it to perfection and the world is happy since they are friends again and that’s all I really want. (Kyle)

Anaïs Mitchell – “He Did”

Lyrically this song is masterful and angst ridden and haunting. As I think about it now, it would be an incredibly tall order to cover this monster, but I genuinely think a blues/soul rendition could be badass. The lyrics of the song mourn and bleed and I kinda wanna hear Cedric Burnside or Leon Bridges take it on. (Andy)

Cutting Crew – “(I Just) Died In Your Arms”

GIVE ME HAIM SINGING THIS SONG AND IT WILL BE THE RESURRECTION OF AN ‘80S POP RELIC!!!! It would also stream millions of times in a matter of days. It’s a jam and they’re the maestros I wanna hear introduce it to the next generation. (Andy)


Photo credit: Noah Tidmore

Baylen’s Brit Pick: Elles Bailey

Artist: Elles Bailey
Hometown: Bristol, England
Latest Album: Wildfire

Sounds Like: Mollie Marriott, Jo Harman, Bonnies Tyler and Raitt, with a touch of Amy Winehouse.

Why You Should Listen: I love a husky voice and Elles Bailey has it in spades. Of course a voice that sounds like it’s had more nights out than me and smoked more cigarettes than Maggi Hambling (art school reference for you there) isn’t enough to make a great album, as wonderful as that voice may be.

So it’s good news that Elles combines that voice with sharp-edged lyrics, a soulful bluesy sound, country roots sensibilities, and top notch musicianship. Combine all that with a contemporary edge and you’ve got yourself a great new hope of British music. The smokey voice, by the way, doesn’t come from either cigarettes or art school; it’s the result of a stint in hospital when she was a child. Elles doesn’t dwell on that though and neither should we. It’s just another reminder of how sometimes light comes from darkness; she’s embraced it, turned it to her advantage.

I’d known of Elles for awhile and played her on my radio shows plenty but I only got to catch her live at the opening party for last month’s Nashville Meets London festival, and she blew the roof off the place. She has an easy, engaging stage presence and is the only artist in three years of the festival to start her set at a grand piano. A grand piano always adds a bit of oomph doesn’t it? She’s also a dab hand at a self-deprecating story, which makes you love her all the more.

All that aside, she could just stand stock still centre stage and sing her songs and that would be plenty, they are that good. Her latest album Wildfire was produced by Brad Nowell, tracked in Nashville, and features Grammy Award-winning guitarist Brent Mason and Musicians Hall of Fame keyboard player Bobby Wood, so all the boxes are checked in the Real Deal category. She’s appearing at The Long Road festival in England in September, thank God it’s an outdoor festival, I don’t think the insurance would cover another roof blown off by Elles Bailey.

As a radio and TV host, Baylen Leonard has presented country and Americana shows, specials, and commentary for BBC Radio 2, Chris Country Radio, BBC Radio London, BBC Radio 2 Country, BBC Radio 4, BBC Scotland, Monocle 24, and British Airways, as well as promoting artists through his work with the Americana Music Association UK, the Nashville Meets London Festival, and the Long Road (the UK’s newest outdoor country, Americana, and roots festival). Follow him on Twitter: @HeyBaylen


Photo credit: Alex Berger

BGS 5+5: Dharmasoul

Artist: Dharmasoul (Jonah Tolchin & Kevin Clifford)
Hometown: Princeton, NJ
Latest Album: Lightning Kid 
Rejected Band Names: Dankasaurus

What’s your favorite memory from being on stage?

Kevin: My favorite memory from being onstage is a tie between playing New Orleans Jazz Fest with the Loyola Jazz Band in 2012 and when an entire audience sang happy birthday to my mom at a show in New Orleans.

Jonah: One of my favorite memories of being on stage was on a tour with Chuck Prophet in Europe a few years ago. We were playing a small festival in Belgrade, Serbia. I was playing a song that’s on our new record solo acoustic (“Addiction”), and the audience was more enthusiastic than I had ever experienced in a room of strangers. It was moving to me to feel that kind of love in a foreign land.

If you had to write a mission statement for your career, what would it be?

Kevin: Since you can fail at what you don’t love to do, you might as well try doing what you love to. If I can’t dance to my own groove, no one is going to be dancing. Serve the music!

Jonah: I resonate with the concept of the Bodhisattva. It is my intention to bring this principle of serving my community and all people and life everywhere so that we — myself included — can wake up from forgetfulness and create a better world for all life forms generations to come. I think music has the power to do that.

If you could spend 10 minutes with John Lennon, Dolly Parton, Hank Williams, Joni Mitchell, Sister Rosetta, or Merle Haggard how would it go?

Kevin: I would try desperately to record a jam session with Sister Rosetta.

Jonah: Definitely John Lennon. I’d like to write a song with him … or maybe play a game. Like ping pong.

Since food and music go so well together, what would be your dream pairing of a meal and a musician?

Kevin: Fried oyster and shrimp po-boy with a hurricane and the Soul Rebels Brass Band

Jonah: I’m gonna go with something I’m looking forward to, which is being at Jazz Fest in NOLA next month eating gumbo and watching three of the most badass women known to music all on the same day — Aretha Franklin, Bonnie Raitt, and Lucinda Williams.

What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be a musician?

Kevin: It had to have been when I saw School of Rock and became obsessed with all the music from that movie. Also, when my Uncle Bill in Chicago gave me my first drum lesson and taught me some Joe Morello licks and a 4/4 Beatles rock beat.

Jonah: I’m honestly not quite sure. As soon as I started playing, at around 13, I don’t think there were any other options for me. Two years later, when I was 15, I met Ronnie Earl at a music store, and he invited me to play on stage with him at the Tupelo Music Hall in New Hampshire. That was a big, reinforcing moment. I didn’t take the SAT in high school because I knew this was my path … I’ve been doing it ever since.

MIXTAPE: Janiva Magness’s Folk Is a Four-Letter Word

I have long known that I am, at times, a highly emotional creature. I’m good with that and ever grateful I have the music to help sooth me through it. Folk music has always been a part of that balm and always had a quiet place in me. Although, over time, the definition of what folk music is has changed, depending in part on its popularity. For me, this is a beginning of some of my always and all-time favorite folk music. These tunes contain both comfort and melancholy — for me, two of the “absolute musts” to great folk songs by great artists. — Janiva Magness

Bob Dylan — “If You See Her, Say Hello”

How is it possible to not love this track? Besides, there is no one who can turn a phrase like Mr. Zimmerman. No one!

Blackie and the Rodeo Kings — “Brave”

Steven Fearing of B.A.R.K. has such a soulful voice and tone, then add Holly Cole’s vocal with him, and I find it a haunting tale of deep and abiding love born of infidelity. It is both comforting and stunning.

Joni Mitchell — “Both Sides Now”

An epic song written by a then very fresh Joni Mitchell with so much wisdom, it seemed impossible to come from such a young woman.

Joan Baez — “Diamonds and Rust”

This classic — and at the time controversial — track about Joan and one other very famous folk singer and their love affair remembered.

Gillian Welch — “Look at Miss Ohio”

Just love this song and, though it’s not one of Gillian’s most played tracks, I have worn this out at home, in the car, and everywhere. I love it because it’s about a beauty queen being herself behind the scenes, and doing wrong — grinnin’ all the while.

Taj Mahal — “Corinna”

I have loved this track since first laying my ears on it in the ’70s. Simple folk blues. It don’t get any better than Taj.

Ry Cooder — “That’s the Way Love Turned Out for Me”

A haunting song originally recorded by James Carr, I believe, and then adapted by Ry Cooder. I just love this version because of its fractured vulnerability.

Bonnie Raitt — “Love Has No Pride”

A song penned by Libby Titus and portrayed by Bonnie. Her early ’70s material is incomparable for me really. This tune is a heart broken in two and laying on the floor right in front of you.

Zachary Richard — “No French, No More”

A haunting and, as I understand it, true tale written by Zachary Richard about his upbringing as a young Acadian boy in the swamps and woods of Louisiana, where his native language was French but, once placed in public school, the children were forced to abandon their language and culture for English.

Bobbie Gentry — “Ode to Billie Joe”

A captivating tale of love gone wrong with two teenagers in the rural South. Bobbie Gentry’s painful and almost detached vocal track make it all the more mysterious

Jackson Browne — “My Opening Farewell”

One of the most beautiful and lonesome songs of all time to me. Love and grief. Nuff said.

From Pop Stars to Pitchforks: A Conversation with Megan Mullally

Some people cover songs and some people downright inhabit them. Megan Mullally and Stephanie Hunt (aka the duo Nancy And Beth) take songs and peel off their clothes, give them a little sweet loving, read them some Proust, show them a few Mel Brooks’ films, and send them back out the door with a smile on their face, a pat on the rear, and a whole new way of seeing the world. Just queue up their version of Gucci Mane’s “I Don’t Love Her” from their new self-titled LP to see why: It takes some wildly dirty, arguably misogynistic lyrics and turns them all into a mischievous, vaudevillian coo that owns the words instead of falling victim to them. It’s also pretty darn funny, but don’t be mistaken: These two women can also sing the heck out of some George Jones.

Mullally and Hunt, both known primarily as actresses — Mullally, most famously on Will & Grace and Hunt, on Californication — have strong performing backgrounds, and though they’re 30 years apart in age, they’re kindred musical spirits. So they formed Nancy And Beth (and no, their middle names are neither Nancy nor Beth; they just thought the combo sounded funny), started performing live together complete with choreography, and created a hit list of songs to cover that range from country classics to blues standards to, yes, Gucci Mane.

Growing up in Oklahoma, Mullally actually got her start as a singer, training herself on her parent’s collection of records, and had her first big break in a Broadway musical back in 1995, before Will & Grace. Nancy And Beth is a serious project — it’s not a novelty act — but it certainly embraces a sense of humor and an era when artists viewed a concert as a place for well-rounded entertainment and that musical theater spirit. 

Your music is both carefully crafted and entertaining. Do you think that’s an approach that has been lost these days? Music is often either very serious and well done or silly and void of meaning — not both.

When I was growing up, there was much more of a mix of music, with someone like Roger Miller being on the more critically legitimate end of the spectrum, but then there were weird “itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny” kind of songs, too. There was this crazy novelty aspect that you don’t hear anymore. Now everything is so dire, and I’ve gone through that phase, too, and that was fun and, who knows, maybe my next record will be like Beyoncé’s Lemonade where I just fucking rake [husband and comedian] Nick [Offerman] over the coals. Well, I guess he has to do something wrong first, which hasn’t happened yet. But there’s always tomorrow. [Laughs]

[Laughs] You’ve always done both acting and singing, but you’re known more as an actress. Why do people make such a big deal out of actors starting singing careers? Doesn’t playing music on stage have an element of theatrics and character play, anyway?

Well, there is a double standard. It’s totally allowed, if you start as a musician. But if people know you first as an actor, then no way. I’m perceived as an actress and suddenly it seems I have a band and, “No, that’s forbidden!” But if you’re a pop star and you decide you want to take a swing at acting it’s like, “Yes, please. Come and collect your Oscar!” Who knows? I stopped caring about it. But I did have a horrible interview with someone nameless for a smaller town paper and the guy didn’t get anything about [the band] — he was like, “It’s called Nancy And Beth. Well, as far as I can discern, none of you are named Nancy or Beth!” I was like, “Um, yeah, you’re right …” [Laughs]

Well, not everyone knows your back-story … or knows how to use Google, apparently. What was the music that you first fell in love with as a kid?

I grew up in Oklahoma and there was only one radio game in town, and they played everything: They had to be all things to all people. I think that influenced my taste for different genres. I know bands that have a distinct sound, but that’s why I like our live show: You go hear a band and, after about five songs, you’re like, “I’m bored.” We’re all over the place, and that’s why shows are so fun and everyone has such a great time. But I loved the Monkees — Davey Jones was my first love, not going to lie. My parents had a lot of Barbra Streisand and Judy Garland because, apparently, my parents were two gay men? But when they would go out, I would put those records on and pick a song and keep playing them over and over until I knew every song on the record, and that’s how I learned to sing. I always loved anything kind of bluesy, Barbra Streisand and Judy Garland fall into that category, I guess, but I had a feel for that. Early Bonnie Raitt and Janis Joplin, they had a bit of a bluesy flavor. I loved early Willie Nelson — I still love him. There’s something a little bluesy about a lot of country music from that era.

Do you enjoy modern country music at all?

I don’t know any of it, because it all sounds like power pop to me. “I got my pickup, I got my dog!” I mean, I love Patty Griffin, does she count?

Probably not! But that’s a lot of diverse influences. How did Nancy And Beth’s sound evolve early on?

[Stephanie and I] are like two little kids playing. I know that neither of us is particularly analytical. But we never had a conversation because we never had to, since it flows really easily and we just do whatever we want. We didn’t have a big “Come to Jesus.” I will say, the most kind of poignant interesting little detail is that we used to open all of our shows — we took a three-year break because of my schedule, but before that when we were performing at Largo [in Los Angeles] — we used to open every live show off-stage with just our tambourine and do that White Stripes song “Little Room.” It kind of sums up everything that is good about the band. And it reminds me of my childhood because I spent a lot of time literally in my room, making up all these elaborate scenarios that I would perfect and show to my mother who would unfailingly tell me I was a genius. I feel like that “Little Room” song is a great description of whatever it is that we are.

Your version of “I Don’t Love Her” is a great summary of what Nancy And Beth does well, too: It’s pretty hilarious, but also smart.

[When] that song popped up and I was like, “What a beautiful song title! So interesting.” Then I heard it, and I was like, “What? No!” And we were just dying. We were sitting on my bed with the lyrics printed out and, oh my God, we were dying. Then we added it to the repertoire and eventually the recording.

It’s a nice reclaiming of some unsavory words used to describe women … by our president, of all people.

Yeah, that is good. And I never change the gender. I want to be as true to the song as I can be and the gender doesn’t matter. That’s more interesting.

Speaking of our president, you’ve met him before: You guys sang the theme song to Green Acres together at the Emmys in 2006. Trump wore overalls while you were dressed quite glam as Karen from Will & Grace, which was perfect. You were competing for something called “Emmy Idol,” and best version of a classic television theme, and we all know how much Trump loves a good competition.

It was a stupid thing to begin with and normally something I would dismiss out of hand, and I was getting ready to do that when they said, “But we want you to do the theme to Green Acres with Donald Trump,” and I was as like, “Oh, wait!” At the time, it was the height of his popularity on The Apprentice, and everyone thought he was hilarious, like someone playing a character — pompous and extremely arrogant — and I don’t think anyone thought he was actually like that. Now we know different. At the time, it seemed like a great idea. It was called “Emmy Idol” and people were calling in and voting, and there was going to be a winner. So we rehearsed, and it was fine. I talked to him a little and was like, “This guy is funny,” since I was giving him a lot of shit and he seemed to roll with the punches. And I was like, “Well, that’s good, he’s playing a character.”

And now we know otherwise …

Well, then the next day the phone rang, and he called and he said, “Listen, we really needed to win that thing and we did, and you were a part of that. And not only did we win, but I heard we crushed it. It’s a landslide.” I thought, “This guy is out of his mind. Who cares?” I just thought it was funny to make Donald Trump wear a pitchfork and overalls. I thought that was funny, and that was the only reason I did it. He really wanted to win that thing, and he got his way. Then, when he was running for president, I was like, “Oh, shit! If he wanted to win Emmy Idol that badly, how much does he want to win this?”

Well, getting Donald Trump to hold a pitchfork was kind of your own win, I think.

And I am proud of that.

Squared Roots: Tift Merritt on the Fearlessness of Linda Ronstadt

In the world of folk-rock, a few artists reap the lion’s share of mentions, with Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, and Jackson Browne, among them. One of the great voices of the genre, though, is Linda Ronstadt. As a singer and song collector, she is all but unrivaled — a point most of her peers would agree with. Starting in the mid-1960s as a member of the Stone Poneys and, later, as a solo artist, Ronstadt made a name for herself on the marquees of folk clubs and rock arenas, alike, thanks to albums like Hand Sown … Home Grown (which some consider the first alt-country album by a female), Silk Purse, Heart Like a Wheel, and many more. Her artistry recognized no boundaries as she recorded with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra, as part of Trio with Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris, and in Spanish. In 2011, however, she announced her retirement brought on by a battle with Parkinson’s disease.

I don’t have any great, huge proclamations to begin with, except that I adore Linda Ronstadt,” singer/songwriter Tift Merritt says with a laugh. And, really, that’s enough. From her debut album, Bramble Rose, to her latest release, Stitch of the World, Merritt has attempted to follow in the footsteps of her musical heroes — women like Harris and Ronstadt — who have blazed a trail of feminine fearlessness. By pretty much all accounts, she has succeeded — a point most of her peers would agree with.

Are you a student of Linda’s work for your own artistry or just a fan for your own enjoyment?

You know, I wanted to talk about Linda because she’s not singing anymore because she has Parkinson’s, so it’s almost more important to talk about her now because of that. I think what we need to talk about with Linda Ronstadt is that, at the height of the singer/songwriter movement, she was the one headlining stadiums with the Eagles and Elton John. I think it’s really important to talk about a woman doing that. She was bringing all these songwriters she knew and loved, and taking their songs and singing them. She was on the cover of Time magazine. She was a girl next door and a member of the band with a very understated sexuality, but she was also an absolute star and a commercial success. I think we tend to think about women with guitars singing earthy rock ‘n’ roll as coffee shop acts or something that’s going to fall apart in your hands. And Linda Ronstadt was kicking everyone’s ass. [Laughs]

[Laughs] What’s interesting is that there’s a quote of hers from 1999, in which she said, “I always mean to be a singer, not a star.” So, even though she achieved that level, like you said, it wasn’t necessarily her goal.

I think that’s why it’s important to talk about, too. Because she is an artist. I think she had a complicated relationship with her success and how she was viewed, sexually, and all of that. But she achieved success through her art. And I know that I first fell in love with Linda Ronstadt records when I was in my early 20s. In fact, when I made Bramble Rose, I wanted to make a record like [Emmylou Harris’s] Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town or I wanted to make a record like Heart Like a Wheel or Silk Purse or one of the early Bonnie Raitt records. Those first records were so raw and heartfelt and just penetrated your bones and brought tears to your eyes.

I remember that was said in the press release for my first record, and one of my first reviews kind of made fun of me for liking Linda Ronstadt. I thought, “Oh my God. This person doesn’t get it.” For me, all of those women, and Linda Ronstadt, especially … this was in the late ’90s or early 2000s. I sort of came of age in the ’90s. Madonna was on MTV in the ’80s. And I needed some female role modes who were more like me, who had something to say, who were not intent on acting outrageously, but really wanted to be storytellers. And who had a lot to say and who were masters of their art. You can tell from Linda Ronstadt’s discography and her work as a writer and a singer, she’s a student of her craft. But she always manages to look so cool in all the pictures of her! And she was in a band, too! You navigate this world of dudes traveling on the road, and she did that with so much grace.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, in listening to her and reading about her, to me, her fearlessness as a singer …

Uh huh. Absolutely!

both in song choices and vocal delivery. You can hear so much in her voice.

She’s totally fearless. Maybe that’s the source of her power because she’s so powerful, as well. I’ve sung along with those records … I had a break up and I ended up putting on those records to comfort myself and I was right back there. I’ve been singing along to those records for such a long time, and her voice is an unbelievable instrument. Unbelievable. It’s silken and velvet, and also as powerful as steel. And it’s fierce. The effortlessness with which she can belt at the top of her range, then go low … any melody is so lucky to end up in her hands. [Laughs]

[Laughs] What does it take for a singer to do what she did — both in terms of breaking down as many genre barriers as she did and finding her way into songs she didn’t write, but might as well have? They sounded like they were fully coming from her.

Right. They were realized through her. I don’t know her, personally, at all. But my impression is that it’s a combination of open-heartedness and intelligence and that fearlessness where you are singing with your heart on the line. Period.

Yeah. You find your way in and bring everybody along with you.

Mmm-hmm.

The other thing I feel like … her identification as a singer and, later, a producer … she was no less revered and respected just because she wasn’t a songwriter.

No. I know.

Except for with the guy who reviewed your record. [Laughs] Do you think that’s changed at all? These days, is being a songwriter, too, a huge part of the credibility factor?

I don’t know. I think the world has room for so many different types of careers. I come at this as a writer. But music is such a powerful thing, and to be able to inhabit that … music is a physical and social medium. To be open enough to let that run through you, it’s really an awesome thing.

I took some time off from touring and I missed that. It’s such a joyful letting go, even if it’s a sad song. And I think that’s what you hear when you listen to Linda Ronstadt. So much power coming through these tiny muscles in your neck. They’re so fragile. They’re the size of a dime. There’s an electric current that seems to jump out of her. Like a river of feeling coming out. I think it’s important to talk about, that music is not about a canvas on a wall. It’s not about words on a page. It is a physical, living, breathing type of media. And to be able to do that seamlessly … I love watching and hearing people who have that gift. And it is a gift.

That’s a great ending, right there.

Well, we just have to mention that “Long Long Time” and “Blue Bayou” are two of the greatest performances of great songs. Ever. [Laughs] That is all.


Tift Merritt photo courtesy of the artist. Linda Ronstadt photo courtesy of Carl Lender.

MIXTAPE: Bruce Warren’s Americana Roots

I was raised in the '70s — the greatest decade of music ever. Here’s a playlist of songs that I put together built on the new and the old, all tied to the music I grew up on — from the singers and the songwriters to the classic rockers, plus some new tunes from musicians carrying on the traditions I fell in love with as a high school kid. — Bruce Warren, Program Director for WXPN

Aaron Lee Tasjan — Memphis Rain”

With repeated listens, Tasjan’s new album, Silver Tears, unfolds like a great book, with great stories and photographs that linger long after the song ends. This is one of them.

Little Feat — Skin It Back”

I had no idea who Little Feat were when I bought their 1974 album Feats Don’t Fail Me Now as a high schooler based solely on the cover art by legendary illustrator Neon Park. But, man, did it change my life. This album is like the grandfather of Americana records, in the purest, broadest sense of the genre as roots music. It was R&B, soul, rock, and gritty and swampy, and this band could play like my nobody’s business. Lowell George on slide and funky guitar and that rhythm section pulsing out deep grooves … Mmm-mmm.

Yola Carter — Fly Away”

One of this year’s outstanding showcases in Nashville at the Americana Festival was British singer/songwriter Yola Carter. She’s sung with Massive Attack, and cites Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris as major influences. She’s a star. Hold on.

The Dream Syndicate — “Tell Me When it’s Over”

Psychedelic, punk, and pre-Americana all coming together in one place at one time on one glorious record — The Days of Wine and Roses by Steve Wynn and his pals, in 1982.

The Allman Brothers — Southbound”

You can make 100 mixtapes of music for driving and this is the song you’d want to put on every single wione of them. Shout out to Chuck Leavell on that piano, though.

Michael Kiwanuka — “Love & Hate”

British soul-folk singer Kiwanuka delivered one of the best albums this year on which he mined the spirit of Marvin Gaye’s What’s Going On and the soul-folk work of Terry Callier.

Terry Callier — 900 Miles” and “It’s About Time”

Speaking of Callier, there are any number of musical places you can start with the Chicago folk/soul/jazz singer/songwriter whose music shared spiritual commonalities with Tim Buckley and his Chi-town kindred spirit Curtis Mayfield. Start with his 1968 The New Folk Sound of Terry Callier, an American music masterpiece not given its full due.

Norah Jones — “Don’t Be Denied”

Norah drops a very respectable cover of a Neil Young song that originally appeared on my second favorite Neil album, Time Fades Away. (My very favorite Neil record being On the Beach.)

Wilco — “Sunken Treasure”

Side three, track one, Being There. For me, the sonic and songwriting genius of Wilco records like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and A Ghost Is Born can be traced back to this song. That final verse, however, is super inspiring, even though the song is an emotional sad sack.

“Music is my savior
I was maimed by rock and roll
I was maimed by rock and roll
I was tamed by rock and roll
I got my name from rock and roll”

John Moreland — High on Tulsa Heat”

Prior to this year’s Americana Music Fest, singer/songwriter John Moreland was barely on my radar. But when Taylor Goldsmith raved about him on the stage of the Ryman during the awards, I went back to my hotel and bought a copy of High on Tulsa Heat. It’s been in heavy rotation on my personal stereo since. Moreland is an amazing storyteller and lyricist. Here’s hoping his music reaches more people.

Bonnie Raitt — “Give It Up or Let Me Go”

Still making music after all these years, Bonnie’s second album, released in 1972, is one of those records you can go back to time and time again, and it continues to sound great. Sure, she covered Jackson Browne, Barbara George, Chris Smither, and Eric Kaz and Libby Titus’s gorgeous “Love Has No Pride,” but it is her self-penned title song that sets the tone of this record.

Mekons — Hard to Be Human Again”

Insurgent country starts here, with Mekons’ punk and country masterpiece 1985’s Fear And Whiskey.

The 2016 Americana Music Awards Winners

The 15th annual Americana Music Association Honors & Awards Show happened last night at Nashville’s famed Ryman Auditorium. Led by host Jim Lauderdale, the festivities honored Bob Weir, Shawn Colvin, Billy Bragg, William Bell, and Lauderdale with Lifetime Achievement Awards.

Each of those recipients also performed, along with Rodney Crowell, Steve Earle, Emmylou Harris, Jason Isbell, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Bonnie Raitt, George Strait, Alison Krauss, and quite a many more backed by a Buddy Miller-led house band. Presenters include Jack Ingram, Timothy B. Schmit, Taylor Goldsmith, Wynonna Judd, the Indigo Girls, Bruce Hornsby, and Joe Henry.

Winners are in bold.

Album of the Year
Something More Than Free — Jason Isbell, Produced by Dave Cobb
The Ghosts of Highway 20 — Lucinda Williams, Produced by Greg Leisz, Tom Overby, and Lucinda Williams
The Very Last Day — Parker Millsap, Produced by Parker Millsap and Gary Paczosa
Traveller — Chris Stapleton, Produced by Dave Cobb and Chris Stapleton

Song of the Year
"24 Frames" — Jason Isbell, Written by Jason Isbell
"Dime Store Cowgirl" — Kacey Musgraves, Written by Kacey Musgraves, Luke Laird, and Shane McAnally
"Hands of Time" — Margo Price, Written by Margo Price
"S.O.B." — Nathaniel Rateliff & the Nightsweats, Written by Nathaniel Rateliff

Artist of the Year
Jason Isbell
Bonnie Raitt
Chris Stapleton
Lucinda Williams

Duo/Group of the Year
Alabama Shakes
Emmylou Harris & Rodney Crowell
Lake Street Dive
The Milk Carton Kids
Tedeschi Trucks Band

Emerging Artist of the Year
Leon Bridges
John Moreland
Margo Price
Nathaniel Rateliff & the Night Sweats

Instrumentalist of the Year
Cindy Cashdollar
Stuart Duncan
Jedd Hughes
Sara Watkins