Last week, Austin City Limits released an excellent bluegrass performance from their Austin City Limits Celebrates 50 Years broadcast, which debuted on April 4 on PBS. Mandolinist Sierra Hull and guitar phenom Billy Strings appeared on the special ACL show, performing a classic bluegrass number, “Midnight on the Stormy Deep,” a traditional song that entered the bluegrass canon via Bill Monroe himself. (Watch above.) It’s a popular duet, whether at jam sessions or on stage, and in this iteration finds the forward-thinking pair of Hull and Strings employing more retro sounds. Both are adept at these tones and textures, but tend to opt for more envelope-pushing picking on their own songs and creations. It’s lovely to hear both players in a bit more reserved a setting, with moments of star power shining through their tasteful playing and careful listening.
It’s striking how crisp, clean, and precise Hull and Strings render the song, but the grit and gristle that we tend to associate with bluegrass – and that “high lonesome sound” – are evident, certainly not in short supply. Hull’s solos are playful with zany touches and bluesy licks. Strings holds down the resonant lead vocal part while Hull adds the high harmony, both singing the lyric entirely in duet, because that’s how it goes! Strings pulls hard through his own solo with his signature confidence and boldness, while reminding his listeners how pivotal an influence Doc Watson has been across his career.
Hull and Strings are no strangers to collaborating, and in many contexts. Remember that time they covered Post Malone together? And well before Postie’s country foray and Strings’ track features on it. Hull has been known to guest on Strings’ shows, and vice versa. Their backstage cover of “What Does the Deep Sea Say” taped at the Ryman Auditorium has hundreds of thousands of views; “Midnight on the Stormy Deep,” meanwhile, has amassed nearly 200,000 views since it landed on YouTube late last week. Plus, Strings fans will recognize the track, not only from the bluegrass songbook, as it were, but from Strings’ own discography as well. He dueted with bluegrass legend and Hall of Famer Del McCoury on a version of the number a few years back. We never tire of it.
Whatever the many factors that led to Hull and Strings picking “Midnight on the Stormy Deep” together on ACL, they all add up to a live performance that’s easy, confident, and fun, and ultimately speaks to the deep and wide roster of young and younger bluegrass professionals who are keeping this music alive and in the limelight. For the coming generations and as-yet uninitiated new bluegrass fans, too.
A year ago today, on April 7, 2024, the American Legion Post 82 in East Nashville was packed to the gills with rabid flatpicking fans, geared up for a special appearance by two of the greats: Billy Strings and Bryan Sutton. Far from their first show together or their first collaboration, it was still one of the hottest tickets in Nashville and fans lined up down the sidewalk and up the drive of the humble Legion for their chance to witness bluegrass guitar history in the making.
To the delight of the many hundreds of thousands who would have but couldn’t also squeeze into the cinder block building known for two-stepping, honky-tonkin’, and bluegrass jams, today Strings and Sutton surprise released a live-recorded album of that evening’s show, Live at the Legion. Available digitally – with CDs and vinyl on the way August 1, and physical pre-order open now – it’s a two-disc, 20-song collection of traditional tunes, medleys, covers, and two of the most personality-rich and unique improvisational voices on the instrument.
Strings makes it no secret that, like many younger guitar pickers in bluegrass and adjacent styles, Bryan Sutton is a hero. The two have collaborated often in the past, formally and informally, getting together for jams and lessons, Strings appearing at and attending Sutton’s Blue Ridge Guitar Camp, performing as a duo at the Station Inn, Sutton guesting on stage with Strings and band, and more.
These are two generational talents, understood within and outside of bluegrass to be standard-setters for the instrument and for flatpicking at large. Together, their musical dialogues are entrancing, exciting, and as charming as they are downright unpredictable. Billy’s power and aggression on the six-string ease, while each player listens ardently and responds to the other with comfortability, or a wink, or a tasteful counterpoint, or an outburst-inducing surprise. Sutton is endlessly lyrical, drawing out such responses from Strings. For their level of chops, the collection rarely strays into self-involved jamming or ego-driven ideas.
Later this year, in September, Strings and Sutton will perform a short series of intimate duo shows to celebrate Live at the Legion – and give any who couldn’t be there in East Nashville in 2024 for the taping of the album another chance to catch the magic. The pair will appear at the Bluegrass Music Hall of Fame & Museum in Owensboro, Kentucky; at Nashville’s Ryman Auditorium; in Chattanooga, Tennessee; and in Boone, North Carolina with accompaniment by Strings’ bassist, Royal Masat. Due to anticipated demand, tickets for any/all of the shows must be requested by April 21, 2025, after which lottery winners will be notified. Sign up to request tickets here.
Bluegrass boasts many an iconic duo album, especially focused on the guitar. In the future, will we group Live at the Legion alongside other such definitive recordings as Blake & Rice? It seems almost inevitable. From Blake & Rice to Skaggs & Whitley, Watson & Monroe, and Grisman & Garcia – or even the just-released Carter & Cleveland – it seems immediately clear Billy Strings & Bryan Sutton’s Live at the Legion will be going down in bluegrass history. Tuck into this double album delight to see and hear why for yourself.
After 14 years, one of the biggest and most well-known bluegrass bands in the history of the music, Alison Krauss & Union Station, have returned with a brand new studio album, Arcadia. Released on March 28 to the delight of bluegrass and AKUS fans the world over, the collection doesn’t merely pick up where the group left off with 2011’s Paper Airplane. Instead, Arcadia soars back through the band’s deep and mighty discography landing somewhere, sonically, between So Long, So Wrong (1997) and Lonely Runs Both Ways (2004) – in other words, this iconic bluegrass band made a bluegrass album.
Alison Krauss & Union Station, by many measures, are one of the most prominent bluegrass bands to ever emerge from the genre. With the smashing success of her late ’90s to 2010s projects with Union Station and the incredible momentum behind their particular blend of bluegrass, “mash,” easy listening, country, and adult contemporary, Krauss catapulted to roots music notoriety, becoming a household name. She’d lend her voice to the blockbuster Coen Brothers film O Brother, Where Art Thou?, tour with Willie Nelson and Family, make two smash hit records with rock and roll legend Robert Plant, back up Shania Twain, duet with artists like Dolly Parton, Andrea Bocelli, Kris Kristofferson, Cyndi Lauper, Ringo Starr, and countless others. Was bluegrass, which Krauss had called her musical home since she was a pre-teen fiddle contest phenom, merely a springboard into fame and notoriety?
Of course not. This is the idiom in which Krauss has made most of her art; this is a second language – or perhaps, a first – and the fluency and virtuosity Krauss and her band have displayed are two of the most important bluegrass exports that registered and resonated with the masses who would become her fans. Krauss’s crystalline and powerful voice, sensitive and deliberate deliveries, endless grit, and one-of-a-kind skill for song curation only bolstered the electric, engaging charm of the bluegrass bones endemic in her artistry. It’s no wonder that this iteration of bluegrass ended up becoming arguably the most mainstream and most recognizable in the U.S., if not the world.
So, Krauss spread her wings and flew, carrying those bluegrass sensibilities – however overt or subtle – into everything she made. Whether the clean and country Windy City or the soulful and rockin’ pair of Raising Sand and Raise The Roof with Robert Plant, or the easy and romantic Forget About It, she had new horizons to run towards. But she always brought bluegrass with her. To arena tours, giant amphitheaters, sheds, pavilions, the biggest festivals, and beyond. By the time Paper Airplane took off, many in bluegrass regarded AKUS as bluegrass’s zenith, its peak, its maximum. Would anyone ever go further, achieve more, or play to larger audiences? This, after all, is the woman and band who up until they were bested by Beyoncé herself boasted more GRAMMY wins than any other artist in the organization’s history. Who could ever top them?
Well, it turns out Alison Krauss & Union Station weren’t just blazing a trail only they could trod down. Arcadia, fourteen years on from their most recent studio release, enters a universe – a resplendent ecosystem, a vibrant economy – that wouldn’t have existed if not for this band creating the factors that would allow it to exist. Folks like Billy Strings, Molly Tuttle, Sierra Ferrell, Tyler Childers, Zach Top, and many more have raised the roof on what’s possible for bluegrass and bluegrass-adjacent artists, what heights they can achieve, and what genre and style infusions are acceptable and marketable.
But AKUS and Arcadia, especially by returning to many of the musical markers from their ’90s and ’00s offerings, reenter the world that they created not as legacy artists or sceptered elders. They seem to be quite happy to consider themselves among these fresh giants in or around or from bluegrass as peers, contemporaries. Legends in their own rights, yes, and with a mythical gravitational pull to all of these acts and musicians they have inspired across generations, but Arcadia doesn’t feel stoic or mothballed, or almighty and shrouded by clouds high atop a sacred mountain. There’s mash that sounds direct from the halls of SPBGMA at the Music City Sheraton, there’s tender, longing romance, there’s rip roarin’ fiddle, there are transatlantic touches, there’s a dash of dystopia, and plenty of that iconoclastic melancholy for which Krauss has become known. There’s also a new voice in the mix, IIIrd Tyme Out’s frontman Russell Moore, who sings lead on four of the album’s ten tracks, filling the “big shoes” of former member Dan Tyminski.
In short, Alison Krauss & Union Station may be roots music royalty, but their status has in no way dulled their dynamism. They could rest on their laurels, but Krauss and her cohort are clearly still staring down fresh, new horizons. Could there be a new wind in their sails, as they embark alongside this new class of arena-ready, large scale bluegrassers? Has a tacit permission been given to return to their essential roots? Or maybe it’s just a matter of time. When bluegrass is in you, in the soil from which you grew, it has a tendency to ooze out all along or all at once. That trail of ‘grassy touches is what got Alison Krauss & Union Station here in the first place, and it’s what will bring them through the next fourteen years, too. Whatever sounds, songs, and stories occur between.
Alison Krauss & Union Station are our April 2025 Artist of the Month. Our 3+ hour Essentials Playlist below covers their entire discography, as well as Krauss’ own releases and other collaborations. Stay tuned for exclusive content coming later this month – like our interview with Alison about the album, powering through dysphonia, how she collects songs, and more. Plus, we have a collection of Six of the Best Alison Krauss Covers and our discography deep dive for beginners and longtime fans alike. Don’t forget about our exclusive Toy Heart podcast interview with Alison hosted by Tom Power or our recent interview with Russell Moore himself about how excited he is for this brand new gig. We’ll be diving back into the BGS Archives for all things AKUS, so follow along on social media as, for a month at least, we’ll be a proud Alison Krauss & Union Situation.
A quarter century removed from his passing, John Hartford’s music and overarching legacy may have a stronger hold on bluegrass and American roots music than ever before.
From modern-day stars like Billy Strings and Sam Bush playing his songs in front of thousands each night, to popping up in books, old-time jams, workshops, films, and other functions, Hartford’s songs are officially a part of the Americana zeitgeist.
This trend continues on Julia Belle: The John Hartford Fiddle Tune Project Volume 2. Released February 28, the follow-up to 2020’s inaugural installment of the Fiddle Tune Project features another 17 songs from the always grinnin’, GRAMMY award-winning, steamboat-loving singer – this time performed entirely by women. Nearly 50 artists, musicians, and singers feature throughout, ranging from Rachel Baiman, Phoebe Hunt, Ginger Boatwright, Brittany Haas, and Deanie Richardson, to Allison de Groot, Della Mae, The Price Sisters, Uncle Earl, Kathy Mattea, Alison Brown, and Sierra Hull.
According to Julia Belle co-producer Megan Lynch Chowning (who was joined in that role by Sharon Gilchrist and Katie Harford Hogue, John’s daughter), once the decision was made to move forward with an all-women cast it came time to narrow down who to include on it–something that was as much of a dilemma as it was “an incredibly cool revelation.”
“We decided about halfway through to just make it a reality rather than a selling point,” she jokes. “It’s in the same spirit of whenever you open up a record from the Bluegrass Album Band, nobody says, ‘Wow, what a great all-male band that is!'”
Ahead of Julia Belle‘s release, Harford Hogue, Lynch Chowning, and Gilchrist spoke with BGS about their involvement in the project, preserving John Hartford’s legacy, and favorite moments from recording.
(Editor’s Note: Thefollowingare three separate conversations combined into one and edited for brevity.)
Nearly 50 artists are involved in Julia Belle. How did you go about deciding who to include on the project and which songs they’d play on?
Sharon Gilchrist: It was really important for us to have a multi-generational presence on this record. One of Katie’s personal wishes for the album was that every artist on the record have some personal connection to Hartford. With it being an all-female record, I was also curious to find women who had actually worked with or had some kind of rapport with him. For example, Laurie Lewis, Kathy Kallick, and Suzy Thompson are all on “Champagne Blues” and were all peers of Hartford’s back in the day. Ginger Boatwright actually inspired the song that John wrote which she sings on, “Learning to Smile All Over Again.”
In addition to the sheer number of people involved, I love how you also really allowed them to lean into their own creative tendencies while at the same time staying true to the style and spirit of John Hartford.
Katie Harford Hogue: Since Volume I the whole premise of this album series has been to choose artists that play this vein of music or consider my dad a mentor or someone they look up to. We hand them the book [John Hartford’s Mammoth Collection of Fiddle Tunes] and tell them to choose the tunes that speak to you, then come to the studio and put them through your filter.
For me to tell an artist how to do art – why would I do that? The whole point of being an artist is that you’re putting yourself into it and are using your own expressions, your own metaphors, and your own way of relating to the music. So we wanted their expression in it and the really cool thing is that Dad comes through no matter what we do. His DNA is in these tunes and there’s no way to get them out, not that we would ever want to. Having people come in and just go for it was risky, but an incredibly fun way to make an album.
Megan Lynch Chowning: A lot of the tones, audio, and overall vibe check comes from Sharon, who has been a John Hartford fan her entire musical life and is somebody who is so incredibly in tune with the sounds and feel that comes from his songs. She worked tirelessly listening to everybody’s work before they came in to record to get an idea of what’s going to help each person be the best possible version of themselves while they’re here.
Then there’s the issue of none of these songs – at least the fiddle tunes – having any chords assigned to them. When John wrote them there were no chord progressions, so every artist had to write their own. That in itself was a big part of people getting to take each song in their own directions. It was amazing to watch over and over again, and Sharon handled it all like an absolute rock star.
While some people’s legacy fades over time, it seems like John Hartford’s only grows stronger. What are your thoughts on that and how this project aims to further propel that legacy forward?
KHH: I’ve heard it said before that the way he communicated wasn’t limited to a particular generation. I don’t know if it was the way he thought about things or if some of the ways he did things were more universal. … You can go back to the masters of music and art – da Vinci, Bach – and their methods of creativity are still very valid now, they simply don’t go out of style.
When you hone into the foundation of it the relevancy goes with it, because everyone’s just going back to what’s real, which is what I think my dad also did. He was very true to the way he made music and the way he thought. A lot of people trying to make a career might stop and think, “What does the public want?” or “What do the masses want and how can I provide for them?” There’s nothing wrong with that, but there is another way to do it, making the music you want to make and not worrying whether or not it’s commercially viable.
That being said, “Gentle On My Mind” [Hartford’s most successful song, written in 1966] was very helpful in allowing him to do that full-time. Most everyone else has to get a full-time job and do the music on the side to stay true to themselves, but he got the best of both worlds in that way. He was able to take the success of that song and then go do his art with his heart and soul in it. I mean, who else writes about steamboats? Who else would write about the things that he wrote about and try the things he did on stage or just go out on a limb? And it all worked! In a way, everything aligned for him. That’s why I think he continues to be so relevant – he took a big risk and it paid off.
MLC: In the very first meeting the three of us had to discuss Volume II, preserving and carrying on the Hartford legacy was the focus of what we were trying to accomplish. On any given day you’ve got Billy Strings and Sam Bush playing John Hartford songs in their live shows. The biggest takeaway I have from this whole thing is John Hartford’s unceasing dedication to learning. He started transcribing and learned to write standard notation after he was diagnosed with cancer and instead of saying, “Oh no, I’m sick and this is going to slow me down,” he took it as a sign to move forward and learn a bunch of new things. That’s what led to him becoming obsessed with the fiddle, traditional styles and all that. That to me is the whole message behind these albums, that there’s so much more to do and so much more to write, play and learn. That’s been the most inspiring thing about being a part of this project.
SG: He was both a student and innovator of traditional music who forged his way forward by not sounding anything like anybody else. John is one of the largest beacons shining the way forward on how you do that.
What were your favorite moments from recording these songs? I personally can’t get enough of “Spirit of the South.”
KHH: What was so fun for me about these sessions was that even in rehearsals everyone was shredding. Upon walking in the room you’re hit with this energy and you just want to jump in. It was so exciting talking with everyone and feeling their joy around each song. Then there were the stories from Ginger Boatwright and Kathy Chiavola – both good friends of my dad – and Alison Brown telling me about his influence over her on the banjo.
Not being a musician, that all fed me, because that was a part of my dad’s life that I wasn’t necessarily connected with very much when he was alive. But now I can hear his music and I can see what he was doing and it just has a whole different impact on me. I’ve now had my own kids, raised them, done some things, and can relate more to what he was doing, so every time someone comes back to the studio and records a song, tells a story or talks about his influence, it feel like there’s a drawing of Dad and everyone’s going in and adding details that I hadn’t known about before or that just flesh out the picture that little bit more.
MLC: One favorite was getting Katie’s mom and John’s first wife, Betty, to sing on “No End of Love,” which is a song that John wrote for her. She is an incredible musician who first met John when they were both up for a radio show slot in the St. Louis area. After they got married Betty put her singing career on hold to manage the family, so being able to get her in the studio to sing that song with Katie and her granddaughter Natalie [Hogue] on guitar and hearing her voice – which has been on hold for a long time as she lives other aspects of her life – gave me chills. To me, stuff like that is the essence of folk music and why we do what we do in terms of keeping these songs and traditions alive.
Megan, didn’t you play John’s Tambovsky & Krutz violin on “No End 0f Love”? What was that experience like?
MLC: I actually have John’s fiddle here at my house and play it in the John Hartford Fiddle Tune Project live show, so I’ve been handling it for a while now. Talk about chills – it’s the fiddle he used the last five or so years of his life. It was his main fiddle for the “Down From the Mountain” shows and The Speed of the Old Long Bow record. It’s actually the fiddle on the cover of that album. Katie called me last year out of the blue and said she was moving houses and had taken the fiddle from one closet to another before questioning why it was there in the first place and not in my hands being played at these shows.
To play it on [“No End of Love”] was funny, because it sounds a lot different than my fiddle even though both were set up by the same person. It always felt comfortable to play, but the first few months I had it it was kind of dead from sitting in a closet for two decades. Since I’ve been playing it regularly it’s really come to life. Just the metaphorical part of this fiddle coming to life at the same moment these tunes are being brought into the world is special. It’s how I believe everybody who has the opportunity to be involved in traditional music should be thinking about it. We should constantly be honoring the stuff that came before us while also bringing it into new spaces.
Katie, you mentioned not being too connected to your father’s music when he was still alive, but what do you remember most about those times?
KHH: People saw his stage persona when he was out, but even when he was home he was still playing. He didn’t go home and just say, “Oh, I’m tired of that.” He played some more. “Obsessive” is not too strong a word to use when it came to the way his brain worked about music or art. It would be Thanksgiving or Christmas and he’d be working out melodies in the living room with Benny Martin simply because they enjoyed it.
Later on, my wedding reception was held at my dad’s house and we had originally set up music on a sound system so as not to burden him, but he, my brother, and my uncle ended up all grabbing their instruments and playing as a trio for it. He wasn’t a musician because he was trying to be famous; he was a musician because he couldn’t not be one. As much as his right hand was a part of him, his fiddle and his banjo were a part of him too.
What has working on TheJohn Hartford Fiddle Tune Project taught you about yourself?
MLC: These experiences have taught me that I’m capable at parts of this job that I previously shied away from. I grew up as a contest fiddler; that was my background. Because of that I was very good at learning specific arrangements of things and then executing them with precision. While that’s all great and fine – one: it’s not a very good living, and two: it’s not all that great for having a very broad musical vision or sense of yourself. That’s why I started playing bluegrass and working for country artists. My skills and musicianship both expanded, but working on these albums – both as a player on Volume I and as a producer/player on Volume II – I’ve learned much more about my internal ability to hear things I didn’t know that I could hear and to make decisions I didn’t know I could make.
It reminds me of this exercise that John Hartford used to do with people at his jams or in his band – called the “window exercise” – where everybody who’s playing has to do something different than everybody else and then has to change that thing every eight bars. If you’ve got five or six people sitting around in a circle, one person can be chopping, one person can be playing longbows, melody, harmony, shuffle pattern… but only for eight bars. It requires you to not only come up with new things, but also be aware of what everyone else is doing simultaneously.
It was a musical brain exercise he invented that we teach at our workshops and sometimes even at the live show. To me, working on these albums has been like a real-life window exercise. It feels like even from beyond the grave John Hartford is challenging me to go bigger, be more creative, and more aware all the time. He’s just expanded who I am as a musician and what I now know that I’m capable of that I didn’t know I was capable of before. It’s weird to be grateful to someone who’s been dead for 25 years, but that’s how I feel because I’m a different person and a different player than I was before I started this.
SG: It showed me the importance of being hands-off with other people’s musicianship and to give them every opportunity to bring as much of themselves to any project as possible. That’s when you’re going to get the best music out of somebody. This project was a lesson in learning to do that, but also knowing when to jump in and direct or provide guidance when necessary.
Katie did a great job of that as well. This whole project is her brainchild and was a huge undertaking and the coolest part is the way she’s doing it. She’s doing it just like her dad. He would be so honored and pleased to see her fostering that in his own tunes and giving others the opportunity to share in and carry on that tradition.
KHH: I was a stay-at-home mom when my kids were born and poured a lot into them growing up, but once my youngest got to high school I began backing off and looking to do some of the things I’d been putting off. Coincidentally, the fiddle tune project was coming to fruition around the same time.
It was like walking out on a limb – especially as an older woman – to go out and start on some of these things not having been in the industry or corporate world in quite a while, but I did it. I have learned so much about not just the music industry, but things like how to use computer software like Photoshop and Illustrator and doing video for social media. It’s a lot of fun and something I’m very proud to be able to say that I did. I want to encourage other women to do the same. Don’t worry about what other people are saying, what you’ve done before, how old you are or what stage of life you’re in – don’t let anyone devalue your experience. If you’ve got an idea, go do it!
From the onset of the Chatham Rabbits‘ new record, Be Real With Me, the North Carolina-based husband and wife duo are at a crossroads of sorts.
On one hand, its opening track, “Facing 29,” is filled with the despair of growing older, but on the other it also relishes in the wisdom and knowledge that comes with making it another year around the sun, as one half of the pair Austin McCombie sings of “Grabbing 30 by the strap of his boots.”
That relationship with age, the maturity that (typically) accompanies it, and the people that come and go along the way are a constant through line of the album in what Sarah McCombie describes as a journey of self discovery. “This is very much a millennials record,” she says.
Their fourth album, Be Real With Me is the duo’s most personal and vulnerable yet, a touch that’s already resonated well for them through things like 2020’s COVID-inspired 194-show Stay At Home Tour and an appearance on PBS’ limited series On The Road. “I strongly believe that putting the fans first, instead of the industry or the mystique of being an artist, has been what’s carried us to where we are now and keeps us motivated,” Sarah asserts.
The album is also set to be their most sonically diverse to date, with drum machines, synthesizers, pedal steel, and other new layers being brought into the mix. Ahead of its release, we spoke with the McCombies about the varying means of growth and evolution within it, how a pen pal inspired one of its songs, the family farm that keeps them grounded when not touring, and more.
You mentioned this being a very “millennial” record due to the heavy themes of growing up and growing away from certain people or things. Are there any other big themes that help to tie these songs together?
Sarah McCombie: Another thing that came up a lot when I was writing the songs for this record is the way we often tell others we’re doing the best we can even when we’re not, which is the case on songs like “Collateral Damage” and “Gas Money.” Sometimes you’re just completely maxed out with nothing left to give a situation other than just being a hindrance to yourself.
I thought about that a lot on “Matador,” which I wrote from a place of repeating the patterns of trusting people too fast or getting into situations that aren’t healthy, ignoring red flags along the way. Looking back, if I slowed down or was more mature I never would’ve found myself in those situations in the first place.
It all ties into the overarching theme of growing up, looking yourself in the mirror, and having these real, maturing moments. Sometimes we have to go through tough experiences to come out the other side. Where we’re at now, in our late 20s and early 30s, is when you typically come to grips with a lot of that and being real with yourself, like the album title suggests, so you can move forward in an authentic way.
Speaking of moving forward in an authentic way, your song “Gas Money” came about through an organic exchange with a longtime fan of the band that has evolved into your close pen pal. Care to explain?
SM: In the past, I’ve overcommitted or maxed myself out with friendships due to music, moving, or other circumstances that I can no longer be there for in the way I used to be. So when my pen pal Eve, who’s going to be 87 this year, sent me one of her letters containing a card with an orange sticky note with a $20 bill on it that said “for gas money for the long road home,” I knew I had to get it in a song. It’s such a cool line that reminded me of Patty Griffin’s “Long Ride Home” and turned into a story about wishing you could give more or that a friendship could be more, but you’re just maxed out at your current life stage and cannot possibly give more to that relationship.
Whether it’s pen pals like Eve or just the personal way you interact with your fans in general, it seems like both have gone a long way in pushing your career forward, in some cases almost more than the songs themselves.
SM: I couldn’t agree more. We draw so much inspiration for our music from our fans. None of what we do would be possible without them keeping us going. In addition to “Gas Money,” there’s a song on our 2022 record called “You Never Told Me I Was Pretty” that a fan also inspired.
Regarding “Gas Money,” I think there’s also a beauty in not wanting to over promise and under deliver in a relationship while still wanting to make a connection or stay in touch. And what kinder thing [is there] to do than pop a $20 in the mail in a letter to say, “Hey, I’m reaching out because you mean something to me”? I remember sending Eve the press release for the song when it came out to let her know how she inspired the chorus and to invite her to our next show in Charlottesville near where she lives. She got back to me saying she’d love to, but she’s already committed to a date that night. I thought it was so sweet how she let me down respectfully and had her boundaries about it, because that is something that’s a big part of this record as well.
Another big part of not just this record, but your lives as a whole is the family farm you live on in North Carolina. Mind telling me about that and how your work on it inspires and informs your music?
SM: The farm has been in my family since 1753, but we bought it from my grandfather a couple years ago, right before he passed away. It used to be 640 acres, but is 65 now; we still own the original cabin and home site, horses – it’s like its own entity.
It’s taught me that working really hard feels really good on a blood, sweat, and tears level. Moving fences, hauling water, and other physical work feel great to accomplish, but so do the aspects of planning ahead and working with others to build a vision. It’s very similar to how we collaborate in the band with other musicians or with graphic artists and other creatives. On that note, we work with another couple who are Angus beef farmers to help keep up our property, because it’s so much land and we’re gone so much of the time. No matter what though, the intentional behavior of putting time and effort into something, whether that be our land and the farm or songwriting and interacting with our fans, is definitely a place where you reap what you sow.
In addition to what we’ve already discussed about the record’s themes of growth, I’ve also seen you describe this project as a “new chapter” for the band. How so?
SM: We’re writing a lot more about ourselves and present-day experiences and less about older stories from our family. I went through a big phase earlier on writing Civil War-era ballads, but now we’re getting more comfortable being vulnerable with our fans and writing about our relationships and what we’re individually going through, which is huge.
Sonically, we’ve had the pleasure of working the last two years with Ryan Stigmon, an incredible pedal steel player who now tours with Zach Top. Getting to play with the pedal steel and its ambient sounds overlaid on guitar and banjo was really fun, new, and different for us. We also brought in a keys player on this record and have been touring with one as well. And “Gas Money” is an example of where we used a drum machine for the first time. We were taking a lot of ’90s pop influence from artists like Robyn and Annie Lennox. It’s led to us becoming more aware of how people are coming to see our shows and like our music because of the song, not because of the genre. We don’t care about labels, we just want to write what feels good.
Another new route y’all take on this album is with the song “Big Fish, Small Pond,” the band’s first instrumental. What led to its creation?
SM: Austin came up with the melody and we tracked it completely live in the studio, Small Pond, that we named the song after. We had an octave mandolin, banjo, guitar, and upright bass on it that we jammed on after popping gummies one night sitting around our microphones. It was around midnight or so and we got into this state and played through it a bunch of times until we got the right take.
It never had any lyrics – an instrumental is just something Austin and I had always wanted to try. We both typically just get by playing our instruments and take much more pride in our songwriting, but we still wanted to try our hand at it and challenge ourselves to place in the middle of the record that would be a breather – or intermission – from everything else we’re singing about.
Since you just mentioned that song being like an intermission, tell me about the song sequencing and how that’s helped to shape this record?
Austin McCombie: We’re really diligent about the song order. It’s not a perfect chronological order, but it does start with the first song written for this record, “Facing 29,” which helps to set the tone of getting older. As the record goes on, we also strategically placed the instrumental in the middle as a breather followed by some heavier songs like “Did I Really Know Him,” “One Little Orange,” and “Pool Shark’s Table.” It was a fun way to show how after all this reflection, we can still look in the mirror and acknowledge that we’re young, have problems, and may not be ready to change it all yet. Sometimes you have these heavy conversations where you leave trying to work on yourself and other times you table things because you aren’t ready for it, and that’s fine too.
What has the process of bringing Be Real With Me to life taught you about yourselves?
AM: It’s pushed me to realize I have more musical ability than I thought, in terms of co-producing and playing so many different instruments. In our genre you have the Andrew Marlins and Billy Stringses of the world and other folks who absolutely rip, but Sarah and I don’t really fit into that category. While that’s still true, it’s been fun to push ourselves with this record, which has given me more motivation to continue leaning into our songwriting in a deeper, more meaningful way than just a fun story about our family members. There’s still room for that, but clearly the magic is happening for us when we dig deeper.
SM: It’s taught me how to confront things I’m uncomfortable with and to not hold back as much. For instance, the song “Collateral Damage” starts with me singing, “I want my freedom and I want a baby.” It makes me cringe just saying it, but that song and phrase has wound up being a big talking point amongst fans and one of our most well-received songs during shows.
What do you hope others take away from listening to this record?
SM: I hope this record feels relatable to people in our age demographic and others wanting to look back on that time in their own lives, serving as a reminder that we’re all just trying to figure things out. It may be difficult, but if we can be real, honest and vulnerable with each other then it will ultimately help us be in a better place.
Yesterday, the 67th Annual GRAMMY Awards show was held in Los Angeles, handing out dozens of awards across the primetime broadcast and premiere ceremony while highlighting the city’s ongoing response to last month’s extreme wildfires, which displaced hundreds of musicians, artists, industry professionals, and creatives. The marquee event was kicked off by Dawes – whose sibling frontmen, Taylor and Griffin Goldsmith, had homes, their studio, and countless instruments and equipment destroyed in the blazes. They performed a moving rendition of “I Love L.A.” with a host of special guests.
Throughout the show, audience members were encouraged to support MusiCares Fire Relief, a collaborative fundraiser launched by the Recording Academy and MusiCares in partnership with Direct Relief, the California Community Foundation, and the Pasadena Community Foundation to help expand wildfire relief efforts across the broader Los Angeles community. Despite the somber shadow cast by the disaster over LA and its creative community, the show was convivial, joyous, and restorative – and included more than a few show-stopping and jaw-dropping moments.
As usual, the crème de la crème of roots musicians could be found across both the pre-telecast and primetime awards, scooping up golden gramophones in seemingly endless varieties of categories. The evening’s big winners in the Country & American Roots Music categories included superstar Beyoncé, who finally picked up her first Album of the Year win, as well as becoming the first Black woman to ever win Best Country Album. She also won the trophy for Best Country Duo Performance with Miley Cyrus for “II Most Wanted,” bringing her GRAMMY Awards totals to 99 nominations and 35 wins – the most wins of any recipient in the history of the awards.
Sierra Ferrell, a West Virginia native and firebrand bluegrass and country starlet quickly on the rise these past handful of years, was indisputably the day’s other big winner, scoring in each of the four categories in which she was nominated. She quickly followed her very first GRAMMY win with three more, landing awards for Best Americana Album, Best American Roots Performance, Best Americana Performance, and Best American Roots Song – an honor she shares with her co-writer, musician, songwriter, and vocalist Melody Walker (Front Country, BERTHA: Grateful Drag).
The award for Best Bluegrass Album was yet again snatched by the world’s premier flatpicker, Billy Strings, for Live Vol. 1, logging his second win at the GRAMMYs after seven nominations over the last five years.
Pop phenom Chappell Roan won Best New Artist, Kacey Musgraves took home Best Country Song for “The Architect,” Chris Stapleton racked up his 11th GRAMMY win for Best Country Solo Performance, and Woodland, the latest album by Gillian Welch & David Rawlings, was recognized as Best Folk Album. Chick Corea won a posthumous award – Best Jazz Instrumental Album – for Remembrance, a duo project helmed by banjoist Béla Fleck that was released in honor of his hero, friend, and collaborator.
The GRAMMYs yet again demonstrate that the impact of bluegrass, folk, Americana, and country on the mainstream music industry cannot be overstated. Congratulations to all of the winners and nominees for the 67th GRAMMY Awards!
“16 CARRIAGES” – Beyoncé “I Am Not Okay” – Jelly Roll “The Architect” – Kacey Musgraves “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” – Shaboozey “It Takes A Woman” – Chris Stapleton
Best Country Duo/Group Performance
“Cowboys Cry Too” – Kelsea Ballerini with Noah Kahan “II MOST WANTED” – Beyoncé featuring Miley Cyrus “Break Mine” – Brothers Osborne “Bigger Houses” – Dan + Shay “I Had Some Help” – Post Malone featuring Morgan Wallen
Best Country Song
“The Architect” – Shane McAnally, Kacey Musgraves & Josh Osborne, songwriters (Kacey Musgraves) “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” – Sean Cook, Jerrel Jones, Joe Kent, Chibueze Collins Obinna, Nevin Sastry & Mark Williams, songwriters (Shaboozey) “I Am Not Okay” – Casey Brown, Jason DeFord, Ashley Gorley & Taylor Phillips, songwriters (Jelly Roll) “I Had Some Help” – Louis Bell, Ashley Gorley, Hoskins, Austin Post, Ernest Smith, Ryan Vojtesak, Morgan Wallen & Chandler Paul Walters, songwriters (Post Malone Featuring Morgan Wallen) “TEXAS HOLD ‘EM”– Brian Bates, Beyoncé, Elizabeth Lowell Boland, Megan Bülow, Nate Ferraro & Raphael Saadiq, songwriters (Beyoncé)
Best Country Album
COWBOY CARTER – Beyoncé F-1 Trillion – Post Malone Deeper Well – Kacey Musgraves Higher – Chris Stapleton Whirlwind – Lainey Wilson
Best American Roots Performance
“Blame It On Eve” – Shemekia Copeland “Nothing In Rambling” – The Fabulous Thunderbirds featuring Bonnie Raitt, Keb’ Mo’, Taj Mahal, & Mick Fleetwood “Lighthouse” – Sierra Ferrell “The Ballad Of Sally Anne” – Rhiannon Giddens
Best Americana Performance
“YA YA” – Beyoncé “Subtitles” – Madison Cunningham “Don’t Do Me Good” – Madi Diaz featuring Kacey Musgraves “American Dreaming” – Sierra Ferrell “Runaway Train” – Sarah Jarosz “Empty Trainload Of Sky” – Gillian Welch & David Rawlings
Best American Roots Song
“Ahead Of The Game” – Mark Knopfler, songwriter (Mark Knopfler) “All In Good Time” – Sam Beam, songwriter (Iron & Wine featuring Fiona Apple) “All My Friends” – Aoife O’Donovan, songwriter (Aoife O’Donovan) “American Dreaming” – Sierra Ferrell & Melody Walker, songwriters (Sierra Ferrell) “Blame It On Eve” – John Hahn & Will Kimbrough, songwriters (Shemekia Copeland)
Best Americana Album
The Other Side – T Bone Burnett $10 Cowboy – Charley Crockett Trail Of Flowers – Sierra Ferrell Polaroid Lovers – Sarah Jarosz No One Gets Out Alive – Maggie Rose Tigers Blood – Waxahatchee
Best Bluegrass Album
I Built A World – Bronwyn Keith-Hynes Songs Of Love And Life – The Del McCoury Band No Fear – Sister Sadie Live Vol. 1 – Billy Strings Earl Jam – Tony Trischka Dan Tyminski: Live From The Ryman – Dan Tyminski
Best Traditional Blues Album
Hill Country Love – Cedric Burnside Struck Down – The Fabulous Thunderbirds One Guitar Woman – Sue Foley Sam’s Place – Little Feat Swingin’ Live At The Church In Tulsa – The Taj Mahal Sextet
Best Contemporary Blues Album
Blues Deluxe Vol. 2 – Joe Bonamassa Blame It On Eve – Shemekia Copeland Friendlytown – Steve Cropper & The Midnight Hour Mileage – Ruthie Foster The Fury – Antonio Vergara
Best Folk Album
American Patchwork Quartet – American Patchwork Quartet Weird Faith – Madi Diaz Bright Future – Adrianne Lenker All My Friends – Aoife O’Donovan Woodland – Gillian Welch & David Rawlings
Best Regional Roots Music Album
25 Back To My Roots – Sean Ardoin And Kreole Rock And Soul Live At The 2024 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival – Big Chief Monk Boudreaux & The Golden Eagles featuring J’Wan Boudreaux Live At The 2024 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival – New Breed Brass Band featuring Trombone Shorty Kuini – Kalani Pe’a Stories From The Battlefield – The Rumble Featuring Chief Joseph Boudreaux Jr.
Best Roots Gospel Album
The Gospel Sessions, Vol 2 – Authentic Unlimited The Gospel According To Mark – Mark D. Conklin Rhapsody – The Harlem Gospel Travelers Church – Cory Henry Loving You – The Nelons
Best Jazz Performance
“Walk With Me, Lord (SOUND | SPIRIT)” – The Baylor Project “Phoenix Reimagined (Live)” – Lakecia Benjamin featuring Randy Brecker, Jeff “Tain” Watts & John Scofield “Juno” – Chick Corea & Béla Fleck “Twinkle Twinkle Little Me” – Samara Joy featuring Sullivan Fortner “Little Fears” – Dan Pugach Big Band featuring Nicole Zuraitis & Troy Roberts
Best Jazz Instrumental Album
Owl Song – Ambrose Akinmusire featuring Bill Frisell & Herlin Riley Beyond This Place – Kenny Barron featuring Kiyoshi Kitagawa, Johnathan Blake, Immanuel Wilkins & Steve Nelson Phoenix Reimagined (Live) – Lakecia Benjamin Remembrance – Chick Corea & Béla Fleck Solo Game – Sullivan Fortner
Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album
À Fleur De Peau – Cyrille Aimée Visions – Norah Jones Good Together – Lake Street Dive Impossible Dream – Aaron Lazar Christmas Wish – Gregory Porter
Best Contemporary Instrumental Album
Plot Armor – Taylor Eigsti Rhapsody In Blue – Béla Fleck Orchestras (Live) – Bill Frisell featuring Alexander Hanson, Brussels Philharmonic, Rudy Royston & Thomas Morgan Mark – Mark Guiliana Speak To Me – Julian Lage
Best Instrumental Composition
“At Last” – Shelton G. Berg, composer (Shelly Berg) “Communion” – Christopher Zuar, composer (Christopher Zuar Orchestra) “I Swear, I Really Wanted To Make A “Rap” Album But This Is Literally The Way The Wind Blew Me This Time” – André 3000, Surya Botofasina, Nate Mercereau & Carlos Niño, composers (André 3000) “Remembrance” – Chick Corea, composer (Chick Corea & Béla Fleck) “Strands” – Pascal Le Boeuf, composer (Akropolis Reed Quintet, Pascal Le Boeuf & Christian Euman)
Best Arrangement, Instrumental or A Cappella
“Baby Elephant Walk” – Encore, Michael League, arranger (Snarky Puppy) “Bridge Over Troubled Water” – Jacob Collier, Tori Kelly & John Legend, arrangers (Jacob Collier Featuring John Legend & Tori Kelly) “Rhapsody In Blue(Grass)” – Béla Fleck & Ferde Grofé, arrangers (Béla Fleck featuring Michael Cleveland, Sierra Hull, Justin Moses, Mark Schatz & Bryan Sutton) “Rose Without The Thorns” – Erin Bentlage, Alexander Lloyd Blake, Scott Hoying, A.J. Sealy & Amanda Taylor, arrangers (Scott Hoying featuring säje & Tonality) “Silent Night” – Erin Bentlage, Sara Gazarek, Johnaye Kendrick & Amanda Taylor, arrangers (säje)
Notable General Field Categories:
Record Of The Year
“Now And Then” – The Beatles “TEXAS HOLD ‘EM” – Beyoncé “Espresso” – Sabrina Carpenter “360” – Charli XCX “BIRDS OF A FEATHER” – Billie Eilish “Not Like Us” – Kendrick Lamar “Good Luck, Babe!” – Chappell Roan “Fortnight” – Taylor Swift featuring Post Malone
Album Of The Year
New Blue Sun – André 3000 COWBOY CARTER – Beyoncé Short n’ Sweet – Sabrina Carpenter BRAT – Charli XCX Djesse Vol. 4 – Jacob Collier HIT ME HARD AND SOFT – Billie Eilish Chappell Roan The Rise And Fall Of A Midwest Princess – Chappell Roan THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT – Taylor Swift
Song Of The Year
“A Bar Song (Tipsy)” – Sean Cook, Jerrel Jones, Joe Kent, Chibueze Collins Obinna, Nevin Sastry & Mark Williams, songwriters (Shaboozey) “BIRDS OF A FEATHER” – Billie Eilish O’Connell & FINNEAS, songwriters (Billie Eilish) “Die With A Smile” – Dernst Emile II, James Fauntleroy, Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars & Andrew Watt, songwriters (Lady Gaga & Bruno Mars) “Fortnight” – Jack Antonoff, Austin Post & Taylor Swift, songwriters (Taylor Swift Featuring Post Malone) “Good Luck, Babe!” – Kayleigh Rose Amstutz, Daniel Nigro & Justin Tranter, songwriters (Chappell Roan) “Not Like Us” – Kendrick Lamar, songwriter (Kendrick Lamar) “Please Please Please” – Amy Allen, Jack Antonoff & Sabrina Carpenter, songwriters (Sabrina Carpenter) “TEXAS HOLD ‘EM” – Brian Bates, Beyoncé, Elizabeth Lowell Boland, Megan Bülow, Nate Ferraro & Raphael Saadiq, songwriters (Beyoncé)
Whether or not you know it, you’ve likely heard John Mailander music. Chances are he’s even worked with one (or some) of your favorite artists, from Bruce Hornsby to Billy Strings, Noah Kahan, Joy Williams, Lucy Dacus, Molly Tuttle, and many more.
No disrespect to his work with the Noisemakers (who he’s toured with since 2018), or Strings’ GRAMMY-winning album Home, or any other projects, but it’s Mailander’s original works where his musical wizardry glows brightest. On his latest effort, Let the World In, his abilities are stronger than ever as he combines the influences from everyone he’s worked with into an adventure of orchestral bliss guided by trance-like, open-ended jazzy jams.
Helping Mailander to paint these soundscapes across nine tracks and 35 total minutes of run-time are his longtime band members in Forecast – Ethan Jodziewicz, Chris Lippincott, Mark Raudabaugh, Jake Stargel, David Williford – who he first started playing with during a Nashville residency at Dee’s Country Cocktail Lounge in 2019 to celebrate the release of his debut album of the same name. Through eight instrumental tracks (and a cover of Nick Drake’s “Road”) they send listeners on an introspective journey throughout Let the World In that brings the jazz leaning work of Hornsby and jam-fueled tendencies of Phish together, showing just how far he and Forecast have grown and evolved since first coming together.
“The first record was a blueprint, the second was settling into and discovering who we are, and this record is the most confident statement of who we are,” Mailander tells BGS. “Harmonies, colors, melodic themes, it can all be tied back to the first record in some way.”
Mailander spoke to us ahead of the album’s release about how all of his prior collaborative experiences set the stage for Let the World In to shine, writing on the piano, reality checks from recording, song sequencing, and more.
From your work with Billy Strings and Bruce Hornsby to your own music, you’ve always had a very collaborative way about you and this new record is no exception. What are your thoughts on the significance that played in the process of bringing this album to life?
John Mailander: Collaboration and improvisation are some of the most beautiful parts of being a musician. I love working with the widest variety of artists that I can. It’s a great way to become closer on a human level with the people you’re working with.
Initially, when I was starting this Forecast project, I envisioned it as more of a collective of musicians where we could all bring our own original tunes to the table and improvise freely. However, over time it’s formed into a more regular lineup with the six of us, allowing for the group to grow together as a unit.
Is the album title, Let the World In, meant to be a nod to that collaborative nature and outside influences that loom so large on the project?
Absolutely. The title has a lot of different angles to it. I hesitate to say everything it means to me because I don’t want to put it into too much of a box – I want to leave room for the listener to imagine what it means for them as well. It’s a follow-up to the last record [Look Closer] that we made in isolation during the pandemic.
While that record was very introspective, this new one is much more expansive, because of the world opening up more now and having this constant flood of information coming at us from all directions. It’s an overwhelming time to be alive, so this album feels like a companion piece to the last one, almost like the other side of the coin.
The title track also features the “Let the World In Sound Freedom Expressionists” – Hannah Delynn, Maya de Vitry, Gibb Droll, Ella Korth, Lindsay Lou, and Royal Masat. What was your intention with recruiting them for that one track, and what do you feel they brought to it that it may not have had otherwise?
They are a collection of very dear friends in Nashville who have been there for me in my personal life through a lot. It felt really important to me to credit these friends on the record in some way. That manifested into this collection of sound bites from each of them including poetry, sound effects, singing, and field recordings, which I put together into the sound collage you hear in the track. I love knowing that all of their voices are in there. I hope with each listen you can tune into different elements of it and hear new things.
In terms of outside influences on the record, I know Bruce Hornsby played a big role. What tricks and lessons from him did you implement into these songs?
Bruce is one of my greatest teachers. He’s been really encouraging over the past few years to pursue this project, grow into a band leader, and becoming more confident on the piano. I’m very rudimentary, but I’ve become obsessed with learning the piano recently, in large part thanks to Bruce and watching him play it so much. Everything on this record – except for the cover, “Road,” and the improvisational tracks – were ones I wrote on the piano, which was a huge change in direction for me.
I’ve also tried to incorporate elements of how he leads a band, like having dueling conversational solos rather than individual ones or weaving in and out of and finishing each other’s lines, into what we do with the Forecast as well.
Process-wise, how did the construction of these songs on the piano differ from when you’re composing on fiddle?
Going back to the title of this record, the piano gave it a wider scope compositionally for me, because I was thinking a lot more about bass lines and counter melodies and other things that as a fiddle player aren’t as prevalent. With the fiddle I think much more melodically – it’s kind of the top voice – which makes it harder for me to compose that way because even though it’s my primary instrument it’s hard to get a full picture with it. On the piano it felt more like writing for an entire ensemble rather than just writing a melody in chords.
You ended up knocking out the recording for this album during four consecutive days last year. What was it like doing it all rapid-fire like that compared to the more conventional, slow and steady approach?
It was intense, and we even recorded more than just what made it on the record. A lot of the work in post [production], for me, has been crafting everything we recorded into something that tells a story, which would’ve been tough to do across multiple sessions with the band over time, given that they’re all touring musicians as well. It felt good getting together with everyone from basically 10 to 6 every day and working our butts off as much as we could. It was the most concentrated and focused time we’ve ever had together as a band, as well as a reality check about things in the band we needed to work on.
It’s like putting a microscope on everything because we’ve been playing live at Dee’s every month for a few years, but now we’re in this hyper-focused environment where we can hear and analyze every minor detail. It opened up a lot of rabbit holes that I ended up going down later, but I think we really grew as a band through the process of making it this way.
You mentioned the time being a reality check for what you needed to work on as a band. What were some of those things?
It was like putting a microscope on how the particular instrumentation and individual voices on our instruments really blend and work together, revealing sonic and dynamic things that worked or not. It revealed some habits we’d gotten into through playing live that we discovered didn’t always translate to a record. The sessions were an awesome and intensive way to grow as a unit.
You’ve produced all of the Forecast records thus far. Is that something you plan to continue doing in the future?
Actually, the next record we do I’d like to have another producer. I love producing, but I’m realizing that for my own music I’d like to get another perspective in the room next time we do it. It’s really tough taking on both of those roles, but I’m really proud of what we did and grateful for producing it again this time around.
One of my favorite elements of the record is how well the songs flow from one into another – if listened through in order it presents almost as one long, 35-minute track. Tell me about sequencing this record and the importance for listeners to digest the full project from start to finish?
I’ve always been a nerd about sequencing records. I think it’s a really important part of the experience of listening to music. With this one I put a lot more attention into connecting the tracks. Some of them blend into one another, which is something that my mastering engineer Wayne Pooley – who I know through the Bruce Hornsby world – and I spent countless time laboring over the microseconds between every track to make sure each one hits you in a very intentional way.
Only one track on the album has lyrics – your cover of Nick Drake’s “Road.” Why’d you choose it, and what do you feel it contributes to the overall narrative you’re striving to present on the record?
[Nick’s] been a huge inspiration for years. Even as more of an instrumentalist I’ve always been drawn to his writing. But in terms of that song, I’ve known it for a while and love the entire record it’s on, Pink Man. About a year and a half ago – just before work on Let the World In began – I brought the song to the band. Nick Drake’s version is around two minutes long, but I thought it would be cool to use the song as a tool with our band to improvise and jam like we do at our live shows. We did just that by stretching it out to over nine minutes long. Lyrically it fits with the themes on the rest of the record, but it’s not heavy-handed either. It’s still open to interpretation, which is what I really value in it.
Initially I thought about having a guest vocalist on it, because on our last record we had a couple guest singers. But as we got closer and closer to the studio sessions I realized that it was important for me to sing this one myself, and I’m really proud with how it turned out.
If you could collaborate or have a jam session with any musician past or present, who would it be?
My hero, Trey Anastasio. It would be a dream to play or collaborate with him someday.
What has music, specifically when it comes to the creation process for Let the World In, taught you about yourself?
It’s allowed me to connect with my bandmates on a deeper level than I know how to do any other way. Through that I’m able to tap into those energies that exist between us as people, which is a type of connection I practice and strive to achieve every day.
On January 9, 2025, there will be a special performance – more so a once-in-a-lifetime celebration – of the groundbreaking music of Old & In the Way at Nashville’s famed Ryman Auditorium.
Led by the “Bluegrass Buddha” himself, Peter Rowan, the legendary singer-songwriter and founding member of the group will be backed by the Sam Grisman Project. The gathering will also feature a murderers’ row of talent: Sam Bush, Tim O’Brien, Lindsay Lou, Ronnie & Rob McCoury, and more.
“In bluegrass, you just do the beautiful grace of presenting the music, being good neighbors and all that stuff,” Rowan told BGS in an exclusive 2022 interview. “But you could hear us in the band going, ‘go, man, go.’ Go for it, that’s where we came from. That’s what Old & In the Way was – the ‘go for it’ signal to everybody.”
To preface, Old & In the Way started as impromptu pickin’-n-grinnin’ sessions in the early 1970s between Rowan, his longtime friend, mandolin guru David Grisman, and Jerry Garcia, iconic guitarist for the Grateful Dead, who reached for his trusty banjo during the gatherings at Garcia’s home in Stinson Beach, California.
“We started picking every night after supper [at Jerry’s],” Rowan remembers. “We went through old song books and learned a bunch of material.”
At the time, Garcia was searching for new avenues of creative exploration, seeing as the Dead were in the midst of taking a much-needed hiatus after years of relentless touring and recording. He was also, perhaps subconsciously, trying to tap back into his roots before the Dead, this landscape of the late 1950s/early 1960s where Garcia was heavily involved in the San Francisco Bay Area folk scene.
“And you realized that Jerry was an intergalactic traveler, just dropping in on the Earth scene for a little while, but he was totally at home,” Rowan says of Garcia’s restless penchant and lifelong thirst for acoustic music.
When Old & In the Way formed in 1973, the trio recruited bassist John Kahn, as well as a revolving cast of fiddlers (Richard Greene, John Hartford, Vassar Clements). Sporadic gigs were booked around the Bay Area, with the vibe of the whole affair casual in nature – the ethos one of camaraderie and collaboration, but without expectations or boundaries.
“I remember singing the ending of ‘Land of the Navajo’ at the first rehearsal and I looked over at Jerry,” Rowan recalls. “He kept nodding his head like, ‘go.’ It was like Jack Kerouac at Allen Ginsberg’s poetry reading at City Lights Bookstore – ‘go, man, go.’ Encouragement, encouragement.”
By 1974, Old & In the Way simply vanished into the cosmic ether, but not before capturing a handful of live performances that have become melodic sacred texts of a crucial crossroads for acoustic music. To note, Old & In the Way’s 1975 self-titled debut album went on to become the bestselling bluegrass album of all-time – until it was dethroned by the O Brother, Where Art Thou? soundtrack released in 2000.
As it stands today, Rowan, now 82 years old, is the only remaining member of Old & In the Way still actively performing. Garcia, Clements, Kahn, and Hartford have all sadly passed on, with the elder Grisman and Greene retired from touring. Grisman’s son, standup bassist Sam Grisman, is now carrying his father’s bright torch.
And although the tenure of the Old & In the Way was short-lived, the ripple effects of the band’s ongoing influence and enduring legacy remains as vibrant and vital as it was those many years ago, when a handful of shaggy music freaks kicked off a jam that will perpetuate for eternity.
In preparation for the upcoming Old & In the Way showcase at the Ryman on January 9, BGS recently spoke with Sam Grisman, who talked at-length not only about his continued work with Peter Rowan and the intricacies of Jerry Garcia, but also why a band Grisman’s father started over a half-century ago still captivates the hearts and minds of music lovers the world over.
You were five years old when Jerry Garcia passed away. You were really young, but do you remember anything that you hold onto?
Sam Grisman: Yeah, I have a very vivid memory of what our house felt like, smelled like, and just what the energy was like when Jerry was around. And I remember that sort of ease, just the way that he made people feel. It seemed like my parents were at ease when he was around.
And he probably felt at ease being around them. It was probably a safe haven at that house.
Definitely. And, you know, my parents smoked weed in the house. But, my mom was pretty strict about cigarettes. [She] wouldn’t let anybody smoke cigarettes in the house. But, when Jerry was around, he smoked cigarettes in the house. So, part of this smell in my blurry five-year-old memory is the smell of cigarettes. And Jerry would sometimes wear a leather jacket, maybe the smell of leather.
I remember the sound of his laugh. I remember all that music, and some of it I remember so vividly that I just know that part of that memory is reinforced by being there as a little toddler when they were working up [music]. Because they would often work on tunes upstairs in the living room and then take them down to the studio, put them on the mics and pull them.
You just wanted to be around it all and soak it all in.
I was a really curious kid.
With the Ryman show coming up, there’s been a lot of celebration of Old & In the Way as of late, especially with you touring with Peter Rowan and the current Jerry Garcia exhibit at the Bluegrass Hall of Fame & Museum. You’ve been around those songs your whole life. But, when you think about the context of Old & In the Way, and what you’re doing at the Ryman, what really sticks out with why that was such a special time in not only bluegrass, but in the lives of those people?
I mean, what a lightning-in-the-bottle chapter of all those people’s lives, you know? I think 1973, ’73/’74, was a particularly fertile time for Jerry. He was playing a full schedule with the Dead. He had Jerry Garcia Band stuff. He was playing in Old & In the Way. He was playing pedal steel with the New Riders of the Purple Sage. It seemed like he really had an itch to go back to where his roots were, especially when you look at [the Grateful Dead album] Workingman’s Dead [that was released a] couple years prior.
For all of us, who are looking back on it 50 years in the future, it seems like this momentous, heady time that was just meant to be. But, for those guys in the moment, it was just total serendipity. And the quintessence of just going with the flow – Stinson Beach, California, vibes. They just kind of stumbled into this reality.
“Y’all wanna play?” “Sure, why not.”
Yeah, where it would just be really fun to have this bluegrass band that they didn’t take super seriously, which I think really comes across in the recordings, you know? Because there’s all this joy in that music that might not necessarily have been there if those guys were taking it super seriously or if they needed it to pay their bills. It was a very interesting circumstance.
And for them to call their hero Vassar Clements into the mix, on a sort of whim because Peter found his number on a card in his wallet. It was sort of like a fantasy camp for these guys. Like a bunch of hippies sitting around on the beach, smoking a joint, thinking: “Wouldn’t it be great if we had the world’s greatest fiddle player just show up?” “I bet you we could book a gig.” “Hey Jerry, you got these legions of people following you around, you could probably get us a gig, right?”
And that’s kind of how it happened. Those gigs were so magical, because they happened mostly for all of these Deadheads in Marin [County, California], for like 16 months or something.
So, if you really had your finger on the pulse of it and you were going to the Keystone [music club in Berkeley, California], to see [the Jerry Garcia Band] and you loved what the Dead were doing, you knew that they were going to take this time off, but you just saw Jerry the week before and he never took his guitar off. He just finished the [Jerry Garcia Band] set and walked backstage with his guitar on and was smoking a cigarette, and then you saw him 30 minutes later talking to somebody off the side of stage, still had his guitar on — you’re thinking, “Gee, this guy’s not going to stop playing music this year, so I better keep my eyes peeled for what’s next.” And they played all these little gigs mostly around the Bay Area — they kind of captured some lightning in a bottle.
With playing these Old & In the Way melodies not only throughout your life, but also extensively nowadays with Peter Rowan, what’s been your biggest takeaway on what makes those songs and the ethos/history behind them so special to you? What about in terms of musicality, technique, and approach?
It’s hard to articulate how special it is to be exploring these beloved songs that mean so much to so many folks, myself included, with Peter and a cast of some of my best friends and favorite musicians. It’s a catalog that’s got a lot of depth.
Old & In the Way would play anything from songs by bluegrass heroes like Bill Monroe, The Stanley Brothers, Reno & Smiley, and Jim & Jesse to Vassar [Clements], Jerry [Garcia], and my pop’s instrumentals, to the tunes that Peter was writing at the time, which are some of my absolute favorite songs ever written.
Songs like “Midnight Moonlight,” “High Lonesome Sound,” and “Panama Red.” Playing these tunes with Uncle Peter makes me feel connected to the times he spent with David and Jerry in Stinson Beach in the early ’70s.
I grew up in Mill Valley and loved going to Stinson Beach with my friends, so I have a pretty vivid image in my mind’s eye. They played tunes, hung out, relaxed, took in the sea breeze, smoked a bunch of great weed, and developed a highly individuated “West Coast” approach to playing and singing this bluegrass music that they all loved and respected so much.
And then, they called one of my bass heroes, John Kahn, and their fiddle hero, the inimitable Vassar Clements and gave the world about one glorious year – I think around 50 shows – of a rare and lovable breed of bluegrass.
So much of everyone’s personality comes through in the music, and you can hear their camaraderie in the recordings. I guess my biggest take away from getting to play this music with Peter is how important it is to bring your own approach to these timeless songs that we love, while still honoring what it is that makes us love them in the first place.
You’ve known Peter Rowan since you were born. But, what has this latest endeavor together meant to you, to play the Old & In the Way catalog to not only lifelong fans, but also a whole new generation of acoustic music fans and bluegrass freaks?
It means the world to me to get to spend some time out on the road sharing space and time in service of this music with Uncle Peter. Getting to meet all of these folks who care so much about this music and feeling their appreciation and gratitude for Pete has been truly special.
There are so many people from so many different ages and different walks of life for whom this music has been the soundtrack to many fond memories, and I’m honored to be one of them. It’s also been a joy to see fresh faces in the audience and some folks taking in this music with a new perspective.
In your honest opinion, what is the legacy of Old & In the Way when you place it through the prism of the history of bluegrass and the road to the here and now, especially this current juncture where the torchbearers are selling out arenas and creating this high-water mark for acoustic, traditional and bluegrass music?
For many folks who know and love the music of Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead, Old & In the Way has been their first exposure to bluegrass. So many people over the years have told me how listening to Old & In the Way led them to further explore bluegrass music and its roots and branches. And others have told me how it inspired them to become pickers and start bands of their own.
I think Old & In the Way has been pivotal in bringing a wider audience with a more adventurous musical palette into the bluegrass universe. The legacy of Old & In the Way is one of exploration and preservation, and they certainly paved the way for many of us to walk a similar path — honoring the music that we love, while exploring its boundaries and finding our own voices and approaches.
It’s wonderful to see my friend Billy Strings out there playing for so many folks on such a big scale simply being himself, playing his own songs with a great group of friends, and also honoring the material that made him the musician that he is — maybe that’s a part of the legacy of Old & In the Way.
Photo Credit: Elliot Siff Poster Credit: Taylor Rushing
It’s certainly true that the Grateful Dead were never a bluegrass band, starting with the fact that their lineup had not just one drummer, but two. And yet it also can’t be denied that the group’s musical DNA has a wide streak of bluegrass deep within, both in terms of licks and improvisational flair.
In large part, that’s due to the late Jerry Garcia – “Captain Trips” – who started out as a banjo player before finding his most famous calling as the Grateful Dead’s lead guitarist. Before that, Garcia played in folk circles for years, and his many extracurricular collaborators included David Grisman, Peter Rowan, Don Reno, Chubby Wise and other titans of the genre. More than a quarter-century before O Brother, Where Art Thou? took bluegrass to the top of the charts, Garcia’s 1973 side project, Old & In the Way, stood as the top-selling bluegrass album of all time.
Garcia and the Dead’s bluegrass bona fides are solid indeed, as shown by artifacts like the Pickin’ on the Grateful Dead series (not to mention Grass Is Dead, a tribute act). But maybe the strongest testament to the strength of the Dead’s bluegrass-adjacent side is what other artists have made of their catalog. Countless bluegrass musicians have covered Dead songs in ways that would appeal to even the staunchest chair-snapping purists. Here are some of the best.
“Friend of the Devil” – The Travelin’ McCourys (2019)
This rounder’s tale is the granddaddy of ’em all, a bluegrass staple from almost the moment it appeared on the Dead’s 1970 proto-Americana classic, American Beauty. Long a picking-circle staple at festivals, it’s been covered by everybody from Tony Rice to Elvis Costello. But here is a fantastic cover by one of the finest family bands in all of bluegrass, captured onstage at the Grey Fox Bluegrass Festival in 2019. In contrast to the manic pace of the original, this version proceeds at more of an elegant glide. But it’s still got plenty of get-up-and-go, with killer solos over walking bass and a great Ronnie McCoury lead vocal.
“Dire Wolf” – Molly Tuttle (2022)
Among the most acclaimed young artists in bluegrass, Molly Tuttle is a two-time Guitar Player of the Year winner from the International Bluegrass Music Association. She also won IBMA’s Album of the Year trophy for 2022’s Crooked Tree, which included the 1970 Workingman’s Dead standard “Dire Wolf” as a bonus track. Equal parts folk fable and murder ballad, it’s something like “Little Red Riding Hood” with an unhappy ending. And Tuttle’s vocal is even more striking than her guitar-playing.
“Wharf Rat” – Billy Strings (2020)
Possibly even more acclaimed as a guitarist is William “Billy Strings” Apostol, another IBMA Awards fixture (and multiple Entertainer of the Year winner) who is frequently likened to Doc Watson. But few guitarists have ever conjured up Garcia’s sound, spirit, and all-around vibe as effectively as Strings. A song about a lost soul in a seaside town, “Wharf Rat” first came out on the Dead’s eponymous 1971 live album. Strings’ 2020 live version from the Capitol Theatre in Port Chester, New York, is amazing, as Strings doesn’t sing it so much as inhabit it. The money shot is his guitar solo that begins just after the five-minute mark.
“Scarlet Begonias” – The Infamous Stringdusters (2020)
Gambling is one of the Dead’s recurrent tropes and “Scarlet Begonias” gives it a playful spin with a loping guitar riff. The original dates back to 1974’s From the Mars Hotel and it’s been widely covered in oddball styles by the likes of electronic duo Thievery Corporation and the ska band Sublime. But “Scarlet Begonias” has never had it so well as in this excellent bluegrass version by The Infamous Stringdusters, shot onstage at Seattle’s Showbox just ahead of the pandemic in early 2020.
“Ripple” – Dale Ann Bradley (2019)
More often than not, vocals tended to be the Dead’s weak link. But that is not a problem for Kentucky Music Hall of Famer and five-time IBMA Female Vocalist of the Year Dale Ann Bradley. The elegiac “Ripple” began life as the B-side to the “Truckin’” single and was also a show-stopper on the Dead’s 1981 acoustic live album, Reckoning. Bradley covered it on her 2019 LP, The Hard Way, with Tina Adair providing truly lovely vocal harmonies.
“Uncle John’s Band” – Fireside Collective (2022)
One of the Dead’s folksiest numbers, “Uncle John’s Band” kicked off Workingman’s Dead at an easy-going amble – a clear departure from the psychedelic excursions of the Dead’s earliest work. This live version by the young Asheville, North Carolina, band Fireside Collective reimagines “Uncle John’s Band” as sprawling jam-band fodder.
“Cassidy” – Greensky Bluegrass (2007)
“Cassidy” first appeared on-record as a Bob Weir solo tune on his 1972 side-project album, Ace, but it’s been on multiple Dead live albums over the years. It’s always been something of an enigma, inspired by a young girl as well as Neal Cassady. Michigan jamgrass ensemble Greensky Bluegrass gets to its beat-poet heart on this version from 2007’s Live at Bell’s.
“Tennessee Jed” – Front Country (2018)
A frequent theme for the Dead was being in motion, whether traveling toward something or running away from it. So it follows that homesickness would be an aspect of their music, perhaps most overtly on this wistful song from the double-live LP, Europe ’72. California’s Front Country put “Tennessee Jed” through its paces in this 2018 version from their “Kitchen Covers” series.
“Touch of Grey” – Love Canon (2014)
If the Dead wasn’t a bluegrass band, they most definitely weren’t a pop band, either. But the group had occasional brushes with the Hot 100, most famously with the 1970 statement of purpose “Truckin’” and its “what a long strange trip it’s been” tagline (even though the group had only been together about five years by then). “Truckin’” stalled out at No. 64 and was later eclipsed by its 1987 sequel “Touch of Grey” – an actual Top 10 hit with its bittersweet conclusion, “We will get by, we will survive.”
From Charlottesville, Virginia, Love Canon strips away the ’80s pop keyboards and covers the song well as straight-up bluegrass on 2014’s “Dead Covers Project.”
Photo Credit: Old & In the Way, courtesy of Acoustic Disc.
Celebrating the rich history of women in old-time music, past, present, and future, has been an obsession of mine for over 50 years. I’ve listened to archival recordings, sat in the living room with Ola Belle Reed, Jean Ritchie, and Alice Gerrard, toured with Patsy Montana, taught Maybelle Carter’s unique guitar style, and interviewed Lily May Ledford at the Renfro Valley Barn Dance.
I was a proud member of the team that created The Birthplace of Country Music’s exhibit, “I’ve Endured: Women In Old Time Music.” And I’m thrilled that Baltimore’s Creative Alliance is hosting both the exhibit and the Say Sister! Festival celebrating women in roots music in January 2025. This playlist includes music from the past and the “I’ve Endured” exhibit, present artists from the Say Sister! Festival lineup – and the future is coming! – Cathy Fink, musician and co-curator
“I’ve Endured” – Ola Belle Reed
Ola Belle (1916-2002) was born Ola Wave Campbell in Grassy Creek, North Carolina. She was a fine traditional banjo picker and guitarist and grew up with a rich repertoire of family music. She also became a prolific songwriter, realizing that she had her own things to say and her own way to say them within the structure of old-time music. This song has been covered hundreds of times by contemporary artists. Ola Belle received a Distinguished Achievement Award from the International Bluegrass Music Association in 1998 and was awarded a prestigious National Heritage Fellowship Award in 1986.
A native of Tennessee, Amythyst Kiah performs both original and traditional songs on banjo and guitar. She dug deep into old-time music as a student at East Tennessee State University’s roots music program. In “Polly Ann’s Hammer,” the legendary John Henry takes a back seat and his wife gets the lead role. Like the “I’ve Endured” exhibit, this effort brings light to someone who has not received the attention she may have deserved.
“When John was sick/ Polly drove steel/ Like a man, Lord, like a man … This is the hammer that killed your daddy/ Throw it down and we’ll be free…”
“Things Are Coming My Way” – Marcy Marxer
Marcy adapted this song from the singing of Bessie Jones and the Georgia Sea Island Singers. Marcy met the Georgia Sea Island Singers during various folk festivals and always delighted in this song. She’s been celebrating the rich history of women in country music in our duo for over 40 years. Marcy’s a multi-instrumentalist on guitar, cello banjo, mandolin, ukulele, percussion and more. This song showcases her fingerpicking guitar style.
“West Virginia Coal Disaster” – Sarah Kate Morgan
Sarah Kate Morgan steps follow right after Jean Ritchie with traditional and original songs and dulcimer playing. She’s an innovative Appalachian dulcimer player with a gorgeous voice and a love for Appalachian music and heritage. Here she sings Jean’s potent song about the 1968 Saxsewell No. 8 Mine disaster. Hang in there for the awesome instrumental at the end! Sarah Kate teaches at the Hindman Settlement School in Kentucky.
“Red Rocking Chair” – The Coon Creek Girls, Lily May Ledford
Lily May Ledford (1917-1985) from Powell, Kentucky played clawhammer banjo and fiddle and was the leader of the first all-girl string band on the radio, The Coon Creek Girls. Here her solo banjo playing is featured.
“Cotton Patch Rag” – Kimber Ludiker
Kimber plays fiddle and mandolin and sings with bluegrass group Della Mae. She’s a sixth-generation fiddler from Spokane, Washington. Here’s her winning performance of “Cotton Patch Rag” from the 2006 Grand Master Fiddle Championship.
“What The Lord Done Give You” – Cathy Fink
I was the first woman to win the West Virginia State Banjo contest (1980) – and went on to win it several times, total. In 2018 I also won the Clifftop Appalachian Music Festival Banjo Contest. This original song is played on a gut string fretless banjo, making a new tune sound old.
“I Will Not Go Down” – Amythyst Kiah featuring Billy Strings
From Amythyst’s most recent album, Still + Bright, comes this awesome collaboration with Billy Strings. It’s a powerful song and arrangement. I can tell you that if Ola Belle Reed were able to hear this song, she’d give it a big thumbs up! Speaking truth to power is part and parcel of women’s work in roots music.
“Muddy Creek” – Sarah Kate Morgan
Sarah Kate Morgan has redefined what can be done on an Appalachian dulcimer. Her trills, embellishments and awesome tone here are joined by fiddle, banjo and feet. This one will make you happy!
“Now Is the Cool of the Day” – Jean Ritchie
Jean’s clear soprano voice couldn’t be more beautiful than on this original song that draws on her traditional roots, while conjuring God’s calling to humans to take care of the earth. First released in 1977 and still timeless.
“No-See-Um Stomp” – Della Mae
Kimber tears up this original fiddle tune with an all-star band featuring Molly Tuttle, Alison Brown, Avril Smith, and Della Mae.
“Chilly Winds” – Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer
Cello banjo (Marcy) and five-string banjo (Cathy) make up the instrumental duo behind the vocal duet in this classic old-time song.
“The Little Devils” – Jean Ritchie
Jean’s solo voice reminds us what it must have been like to gather round the fire after dinner and hear her mother sing to the family before the age of television.
“Banjo Pickin’ Girl” – The Coon Creek Girls, Lily May Ledford
This song has become the unofficial theme song of many a banjo pickin’ girl and string band. Lily May Ledford and the Coon Creek Girls sang this on the WLS Barn Dance (Chicago), Renfro Valley Barn Dance (KY) and Lily May continued singing it solo for the rest of her career.
Say Sister! Festival takes place in Baltimore, Maryland at the Creative Alliance on January 10 & 11, 2025. Tickets – in person and “watch from home” – are available here. The “I’ve Endured: Women of Old Time Music” exhibit opens at Creative Alliance on January 3 at 6pm.
Photo Credit: Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer by Irene Young; Amythyst Kiah by Photography by Kevin & King; Sarah Kate Morgan by Jared Hamilton. Poster Credit: Gina Dilg
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