See All of the Roots Music Winners from the 2024 GRAMMY Awards

On Sunday night, the music industry gathered in Los Angeles at the Crypto.com Arena for the 66th Grammy Awards. While Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift took home the evening’s biggest honors, the primetime broadcast and pre-awards telecast saw many roots musicians honored for their musical achievements.

This year’s Best Bluegrass Album nominees were a stout collection of records including Radio John: Songs of John Hartford by Sam Bush, Lovin’ Of The Game by Michael Cleveland, Mighty Poplar by Mighty Poplar, Bluegrass by Willie Nelson, Me/And/Dad by Billy Strings, and City Of Gold by Molly Tuttle & Golden Highway, who took home the trophy for the second year in a row.

In other categories, Allison Russell took home her first Grammy Award after eight nominations – for Best American Roots Performance for “Eve Was Black.” Lainey Wilson won Best Country Album for Bell Bottom Country, Bobby Rush took home the trophy for Best Traditional Blues Album (his third Grammy), and Joni Mitchell won her tenth Grammy for Best Folk Album. Meanwhile, the number one country song for now more than 17 weeks, “I Remember Everything” by Zach Bryan and featuring Kacey Musgraves, was awarded Best Country Duo/Group Performance.

Below, find a full list of this year’s Grammy Award nominees and winners in the Country & American Roots Music fields, as well as selected categories from the greater nominations list featuring roots musicians within and adjacent to our BGS family.

Record Of The Year

“Worship”
Jon Batiste

“Not Strong Enough”
boygenius

“Flowers”
Miley Cyrus

“What Was I Made For?” [from the motion picture Barbie]
Billie Eilish

“On My Mama”
Victoria Monét

“Vampire”
Olivia Rodrigo

“Anti-Hero”
Taylor Swift

“Kill Bill”
SZA

Album of the Year

World Music Radio
Jon Batiste

the record
boygenius

Endless Summer Vacation
Miley Cyrus

Did You Know That There’s A Tunnel Under Ocean Blvd
Lana Del Rey

The Age Of Pleasure
Janelle Monáe

GUTS
Olivia Rodrigo

Midnights
Taylor Swift

SOS
SZA

Best New Artist

Gracie Abrams
Fred again..
Ice Spice
Jelly Roll
Coco Jones
Noah Kahan
Victoria Monét
The War & Treaty

Best Rock Performance

“Sculptures Of Anything Goes”
Arctic Monkeys

“More Than A Love Song”
Black Pumas

“Not Strong Enough”
boygenius

“Rescued”
Foo Fighters

“Lux Æterna”
Metallica

Best Country Solo Performance

“In Your Love”
Tyler Childers

“Buried”
Brandy Clark

“Fast Car”
Luke Combs

“The Last Thing On My Mind”
Dolly Parton

“White Horse”
Chris Stapleton

Best Country Duo/Group Performance

“High Note”
Dierks Bentley featuring Billy Strings

“Nobody’s Nobody”
Brothers Osborne

“I Remember Everything”
Zach Bryan featuring Kacey Musgraves

“Kissing Your Picture (Is So Cold)”
Vince Gill & Paul Franklin

“Save Me”
Jelly Roll With Lainey Wilson

“We Don’t Fight Anymore”
Carly Pearce featuring Chris Stapleton

Best Country Song

“Buried”
Brandy Clark & Jessie Jo Dillon, songwriters (Brandy Clark)

“I Remember Everything”
Zach Bryan & Kacey Musgraves, songwriters (Zach Bryan featuring Kacey Musgraves)

“In Your Love”
Tyler Childers & Geno Seale, songwriters (Tyler Childers)

“Last Night”
John Byron, Ashley Gorley, Jacob Kasher Hindlin & Ryan Vojtesak, songwriters (Morgan Wallen)

“White Horse”
Chris Stapleton & Dan Wilson, songwriters (Chris Stapleton)

Best Country Album

Rolling Up The Welcome Mat
Kelsea Ballerini

Brothers Osborne
Brothers Osborne

Zach Bryan
Zach Bryan

Rustin’ In The Rain
Tyler Childers

Bell Bottom Country
Lainey Wilson

Best American Roots Performance

“Butterfly”
Jon Batiste

“Heaven Help Us All”
The Blind Boys Of Alabama

“Inventing The Wheel”
Madison Cunningham

“You Louisiana Man”
Rhiannon Giddens

“Eve Was Black”
Allison Russell

Best Americana Performance

“Friendship”
The Blind Boys Of Alabama

“Help Me Make It Through The Night”
Tyler Childers

“Dear Insecurity”
Brandy Clark featuring Brandi Carlile

“King Of Oklahoma”
Jason Isbell And The 400 Unit

“The Returner”
Allison Russell

Best American Roots Song

“Blank Page”
Michael Trotter Jr. & Tanya Trotter, songwriters (The War & Treaty)

“California Sober”
Aaron Allen, William Apostol & Jon Weisberger, songwriters (Billy Strings featuring Willie Nelson)

“Cast Iron Skillet”
Jason Isbell, songwriter (Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit)

“Dear Insecurity”
Brandy Clark & Michael Pollack, songwriters (Brandy Clark featuring Brandi Carlile)

“The Returner”
Drew Lindsay, JT Nero & Allison Russell, songwriters (Allison Russell)

Best Americana Album

Brandy Clark
Brandy Clark

The Chicago Sessions
Rodney Crowell

You’re The One
Rhiannon Giddens

Weathervanes
Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit

The Returner
Allison Russell

Best Bluegrass Album

Radio John: Songs of John Hartford
Sam Bush

Lovin’ Of The Game
Michael Cleveland

Mighty Poplar
Mighty Poplar

Bluegrass
Willie Nelson

Me/And/Dad
Billy Strings

City Of Gold
Molly Tuttle & Golden Highway

Best Traditional Blues Album

Ridin’
Eric Bibb

The Soul Side Of Sipp
Mr. Sipp

Life Don’t Miss Nobody
Tracy Nelson

Teardrops For Magic Slim Live At Rosa’s Lounge
John Primer

All My Love For You
Bobby Rush

Best Contemporary Blues Album

Death Wish Blues
Samantha Fish And Jesse Dayton

Healing Time
Ruthie Foster

Live In London
Christone “Kingfish” Ingram

Blood Harmony
Larkin Poe

LaVette!
Bettye LaVette

Best Folk Album

Traveling Wildfire
Dom Flemons

I Only See The Moon
The Milk Carton Kids

Joni Mitchell At Newport [Live]
Joni Mitchell

Celebrants
Nickel Creek

Jubilee
Old Crow Medicine Show

Seven Psalms
Paul Simon

Folkocracy
Rufus Wainwright

Best Regional Roots Music Album

New Beginnings
Buckwheat Zydeco Jr. & The Legendary Ils Sont Partis Band

Live At The 2023 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival
Dwayne Dopsie & The Zydeco Hellraisers

Live: Orpheum Theater Nola
Lost Bayou Ramblers & Louisiana Philharmonic Orchestra

Made In New Orleans
New Breed Brass Band

Too Much To Hold
New Orleans Nightcrawlers

Live At The Maple Leaf
The Rumble Featuring Chief Joseph Boudreaux Jr.

Best Roots Gospel Album

Tribute To The King
The Blackwood Brothers Quartet

Echoes Of The South
Blind Boys Of Alabama

Songs That Pulled Me Through The Tough Times
Becky Isaacs Bowman

Meet Me At The Cross
Brian Free & Assurance

Shine: The Darker The Night The Brighter The Light
Gaither Vocal Band

Best Global Music Performance

“Shadow Forces”
Arooj Aftab, Vijay Iyer & Shahzad Ismaily

“Alone”
Burna Boy

“FEEL”
Davido

“Milagro Y Disastre”
Silvana Estrada

“Abundance In Millets”
Falu & Gaurav Shah (featuring PM Narendra Modi)

“Pashto”
Béla Fleck, Edgar Meyer & Zakir Hussain Featuring Rakesh Chaurasia

“Todo Colores”
Ibrahim Maalouf Featuring Cimafunk & Tank And The Bangas

Best Music Video

“I’m Only Sleeping”
(The Beatles)

“In Your Love”
Tyler Childers

“What Was I Made For”
Billie Eilish

“Count Me Out”
Kendrick Lamar

“Rush”
Troye Sivan

Best Instrumental Composition

“Amerikkan Skin”
Lakecia Benjamin, composer (Lakecia Benjamin featuring Angela Davis)

“Can You Hear The Music”
Ludwig Göransson, composer (Ludwig Göransson)

“Cutey And The Dragon”
Gordon Goodwin & Raymond Scott, composers (Quartet San Francisco featuring Gordon Goodwin’s Big Phat Band)

“Helena’s Theme”
John Williams, composer (John Williams)

“Motion”
Edgar Meyer, composer (Béla Fleck, Edgar Meyer & Zakir Hussain featuring Rakesh Chaurasia)

Best Arrangement, Instrumental or A Cappella

“Angels We Have Heard On High”
Nkosilathi Emmanuel Sibanda, arranger (Just 6)

“Can You Hear The Music”
Ludwig Göransson, arranger (Ludwig Göransson)

“Folsom Prison Blues”
John Carter Cash, Tommy Emmanuel, Markus Illko, Janet Robin & Roberto Luis Rodriguez, arrangers (The String Revolution featuring Tommy Emmanuel)

“I Remember Mingus”
Hilario Duran, arranger (Hilario Duran And His Latin Jazz Big Band featuring Paquito D’Rivera)

“Paint It Black”
Esin Aydingoz, Chris Bacon & Alana Da Fonseca, arrangers (Wednesday Addams)


Photo: Molly Tuttle & Bronwyn Keith-Hynes via the Recording Academy

LISTEN: Bobby Rush, “One Monkey Can Stop a Show”

Artist: Bobby Rush
Hometown: Jackson, Mississippi
Song: “One Monkey Can Stop a Show”
Release Date: March 24, 2023
Label: Deep Rush Records/Thirty Tigers

In Their Words: “Nearly 30 years ago, I wrote and cut the record ‘One Monkey Don’t Stop No Show’ which is about a woman threatening to leave me. Though if she leaves me, I’m going to find someone new. This time, ‘One Monkey Can Stop a Show,’ is in a similar direction, but it means that the woman is not going to let me go. I need to change my actions and treat her better. She’d rather see me dead than see me go. Why I cut this song is because the song ‘Keep on Rollin” is so big with the R&B artist King George today. He’s saying, ‘if you leave me, you ain’t gonna stop nothing, I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing. This train is going to keep on rolling.’ I was talking about in my song, she was so devastated she will stop the train and you. Not only does he call out my song ‘One Monkey Don’t Stop No Show’ in his song, but he also inspired me to come back to the table with a new version of my original.” — Bobby Rush


Photo Credit: Bill Steber

16 Summer Reads: New Books by Brandi Carlile, Mary Gauthier, and More

My summer essentials list is pretty simple: A ball cap and sunscreen for a hike, driving directions and a trail map for a day trip, and more than a few reading options for the couch that’s inevitably waiting for me at the end of a long hot summer day. Gathering together all the new memoirs and taking some tips from my BGS colleagues, here are 16 top tomes to get us all — even the kids — through this sweltering season of 2021.

Rob Bowman, The Last Soul Company: The Malaco Records Story

Generous in its photography and its scope, this overview of Malaco Records explains how a pioneering independent label founded in 1962 brought a wealth of African American music to the world via artists like Mississippi Fred McDowell, Bobby Blue Bland, Z.Z. Hill, Johnnie Taylor, Little Milton, and James Cleveland.


Brandi Carlile, Broken Horses

This memoir satisfies the longtime fans who will learn what inspired the songs from her early albums, yet it’s also a candid and conversational statement about what it’s like to be a queer woman in roots music today. The cast of characters is charming, too, particularly her exchanges with Elton John and Joni Mitchell.


Brent Cobb, Little Stuff

Country tunesmith Brent Cobb has said he writes every album with his kids in mind, so transforming the song “Little Stuff” into a children’s book came naturally. But how many children’s books get their own music video? Whether you read it or watch it, the Georgia musician’s homespun wisdom shines through.


Robert Owen Gardner, The Portable Community: Place and Displacement in Bluegrass Festival Life

This scholarly look at bluegrass festival culture in the American West comes from sociology professor Robert Owen Gardner. It’s also an examination of how arts and music grapple with social and environmental change. A digital version of the academic textbook allows more room in the backpack for sunscreen and guitar strings.


Mary Gauthier, Saved by a Song: The Art and Healing Power of Songwriting

More of a memoir than an instruction manual, Mary Gauthier tells the stories behind original songs like “Mercy Now” while leaving the mystical and magical aura of writing them intact. By sharing her intimate conversations and co-writing experiences, she offers both a creative and compassionate point of view.


Howard Grimes with Preston Lauterbach, Timekeeper

Known as Bulldog, Memphis drummer Howard Grimes has propelled R&B classics like Al Green’s “Let’s Stay Together” and Ann Peebles’ “I Can’t Stand the Rain.” In this autobiography, he also explains how he wound up homeless for a time and how he’s been guided by the Bible. Fans of Stax and Hi Records won’t want to miss this one.


Chris Hillman, Time Between: My Life as a Byrd, Burrito Brother, and Beyond

You can’t tell the story of country rock without Chris Hillman. Time Between entered its second printing earlier this year, proving there’s still a curiosity about near-mythical bands like The Byrds and the Flying Burrito Brothers. Start at page one and turn, turn, turn to the get the whole story from this prolific Rock and Roll Hall of Famer.


Johnnyswim, Home Sweet Road: Finding Love, Making Music & Building a Life One City at a Time.

The ever-endearing Johnnyswim found an even larger following when Chip and Joanna Gaines chose the duo’s anthem “Home” as the theme to Fixer Upper. Now, Amanda Sudano-Ramirez and Abner Ramirez give fans a deep dive into their own family life with Home Sweet Road, their debut book brimming with photos, recipes, stories, and poetry.


Kimberly Mack, Fictional Blues: Narrative Self-Invention from Bessie Smith to Jack White

The story of Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil isn’t the only larger-than-life narrative in blues music. A scholar of African American literature and American popular music at The University of Toledo, Mack writes about how similar self-made personas resist racial, social, economic and gendered oppression.


Richard Marx, Stories to Tell: A Memoir

A late ’80s pop star whose catalog still holds up, Marx writes about his life and career, including a few interactions with era-defining figures like Olivia Newton-John and Kenny Rogers. He also gives his candid perspective of what the music industry is really like. By the way, can’t you totally hear Alison Krauss covering “Right Here Waiting“?


Willie Nelson with Turk Pipkin, Willie Nelson’s Letters to America

At 88 years old, Willie Nelson is a living legend with a modern point of view. Yet, rather than ranting on social media, he’s channeled his thoughts into a series of letters, even writing one to Texas and another to marijuana. With his classic lyrics reprinted alongside these letters, the book captures his conversational charisma.


Sinéad O’Connor, Rememberings

This Irish artist made an iconic music video by tearfully emoting into the lens, but there is much more to her story than “Nothing Compares 2U” and her infamous appearance on SNL. As The Guardian notes, “O’Connor also doesn’t need a ghost writer because she has, throughout all of it, rarely been at a loss for what to say.”


Sarit Packer and Itamar Srulovlich, Honey & Co: Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant

In this cookbook and travelogue, the founders of London restaurant Honey & Co. are seeking out savory smoke flavors in Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Turkey, and Greece. And it’s not just grilled meat! Fruits, vegetables, breads and “Unmissables” are make their way into these pages, too. Find out more about the authors on BGS’s The Shift List.


Kim Ruehl, A Singing Army: Zilphia Horton and the Highlander Folk School

An activist and song collector, Zilphia Horton finally gets her due. Ruehl (also a BGS contributor) explains how Horton adapted folk music and hymns for empowerment and social causes, with “We Shall Overcome” as just one example. Considering the school’s ties to civil rights, this piece of Tennessee history merits the attention.


Bobby Rush with Herb Powell, I Ain’t Studdin’ Ya: My American Blues Story

A favorite on the blues scene since the 1950s, Bobby Rush remains a beloved figure in the genre, winning his second Grammy for Best Traditional Blues Album earlier this year. A well-traveled entertainer at age 87, this memoir follows his remarkable life journey from Louisiana to Arkansas, on to Chicago and ultimately the Blues Hall of Fame.


Paul Simon, The 59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin’ Groovy): A Children’s Picture Book

If you gotta make the morning last with little ones around, try this imaginative picture book. With song lyrics from the 1966 Simon & Garfunkel classic and vivid illustrations by Keith Henry Brown, the 24-page book captures the small details of city life by following a bunny on a bicycle — how groovy is that?


 

John Prine, Brittany Howard, Sarah Jarosz Among Winners at 63rd Annual Grammy Awards

The 63rd Annual Grammy Awards were held yesterday afternoon and evening, Sunday March 14, 2021. Here are the nominees and winners in the American Roots Music fields:

Best American Roots Performance

Black Pumas, “Colors”

Bonny Light Horseman, “Deep in Love”

Brittany Howard, “Short and Sweet”

Norah Jones & Mavis Staples, “I’ll Be Gone”

John Prine, “I Remember Everything”


Best American Roots Song

“Cabin,” Laura Rogers & Lydia Rogers, songwriters (The Secret Sisters)

“Ceiling to the Floor,” Sierra Hull & Kai Welch, songwriters (Sierra Hull)

“Hometown,” Sarah Jarosz, songwriter (Sarah Jarosz)

“I Remember Everything,” Pat McLaughlin & John Prine, songwriters (John Prine)

“Man Without a Soul,” Tom Overby & Lucinda Williams, songwriters (Lucinda Williams)


Best Americana Album

Courtney Marie Andrews, Old Flowers

Hiss Golden Messenger, Terms of Surrender

Sarah Jarosz, World on the Ground

Marcus King, El Dorado

Lucinda Williams, Good Souls Better Angels


Best Bluegrass Album

Danny Barnes, Man on Fire

Thomm Jutz, To Live in Two Worlds, Vol. 1

Steep Canyon Rangers, North Carolina Songbook

Billy Strings, Home

Various Artists, The John Hartford Fiddle Tune Project, Vol. 1


Best Traditional Blues Album

Frank Bey, All My Dues are Paid

Don Bryant, You Make Me Feel

Robert Cray Band, That’s What I Heard

Jimmy “Duck” Holmes, Cypress Grove

Bobby Rush, Rawer Than Raw


Best Contemporary Blues Album

Fantastic Negrito, Have You Lost Your Mind Yet?

Ruthie Foster Big Band, Live at the Paramount

G. Love, The Juice

Bettye LaVette, Blackbirds

North Mississippi Allstars, Up and Rolling


Best Folk Album

Bonny Light Horseman, Bonny Light Horseman

Leonard Cohen, Thanks for the Dance

Laura Marling, Song for Our Daughter

The Secret Sisters, Saturn Return

Gillian Welch & David Rawlings, All the Good Times


Best Regional Roots Music Album

Black Lodge Singers, My Relatives “Nikso Kowaiks”

Cameron Dupuy and the Cajun Troubadours, Cameron Dupuy and the Cajun Troubadours

Nā Wai ʽEhā, Lovely Sunrise

New Orleans Nightcrawlers, Atmosphere

Sweet Cecilia, A Tribute to Al Berard


Also, note these Americana winners in other categories:

Best Rock Song

“Kyoto,” Phoebe Bridgers, Morgan Nagler & Marshall Vore, songwriters (Phoebe Bridgers)

“Lost in Yesterday,” Kevin Parker, songwriter (Tame Impala)

“Not,” Adrianne Lenker, songwriter (Big Thief)

“Shameika,” Fiona Apple, songwriter (Fiona Apple)

“Stay High,” Brittany Howard, songwriter (Brittany Howard)


Best Country Solo Performance

“Black Like Me,” Mickey Guyton

“Bluebird,” Miranda Lambert

“Stick That In Your Country Song,” Eric Church

“When My Amy Prays,” Vince Gill

“Who You Thought I Was,” Brandy Clark


Best Country Song

“Bluebird,” Luke Dick, Natalie Hemby & Miranda Lambert, songwriters (Miranda Lambert)

“The Bones,” Maren Morris, Jimmy Robbins & Laura Veltz, songwriters (Maren Morris)

“Crowded Table,” Brandi Carlile, Natalie Hemby & Lori McKenna, songwriters (The Highwomen)

“More Hearts Than Mine,” Ingrid Andress, Sam Ellis & Derrick Southerland, songwriters (Ingrid Andress)

“Some People Do,” Jesse Frasure, Shane McAnally, Matthew Ramsey & Thomas Rhett, songwriters (Old Dominion)


Best Roots Gospel Album

Fisk Jubilee Singers, Celebrating Fisk! (The 150th Anniversary Album)

Mark Bishop, Beautiful Day

The Crabb Family, 20/20

The Erwins, What Christmas Really Means

Ernie Haase & Signature Sound, Something Beautiful


Photo by Kevin Winter/Getty Images for The Recording Academy

BGS Celebrates Black History Month (Part 1 of 2)

At BGS, we firmly believe that Black history is American roots music history. Full stop.

Last year, following the extrajudicial murder of George Floyd and the civil unrest, protests, and rebellions against racial injustice and systemic inequality in this country, we realized that that belief wasn’t present enough in our daily content and editorial. We knew that it needed to be overt, expressed within every aspect of what we do.

Which is why this month, we’ve invited you to celebrate Black History Month as we always do, by denoting that celebrating Black contributions in bluegrass, country, and old-time — and roots music as a whole — requires centering Black creators, artists, musicians, and perspectives in our community daily, not just in February. (Though, for the entire month we’ve been sharing music, stories, and songs featuring Black artists every day, too!)

In the past year we’ve recommitted ourselves to fully incorporating Black Voices into everything we do and we hope that our readers and listeners, our followers and fans, and our family of artists constantly celebrate, acknowledge, and pay credit to Blackness and Black folks, who we have to thank for everything we love about American roots music. To bid adieu to Black History Month 2021, we’re spotlighting Black artists who have graced our pages in the last year in a two-part roundup.

Editor’s note: Read part two of our Black History Month celebration here.

Artists of the Month

Fresh off of an appearance at President Biden’s inauguration, Grammy nominees Black Pumas are our current Artist of the Month honorees, but they aren’t the only ones to hold down our most prestigious monthly series and editorial spotlight. Drawing on folk songwriting as much as soul groove, both men agree that the term “American Roots” fits their sound well. The Americana Music Association seconds that notion, as the duo picked up that organization’s Emerging Act of the Year award in late 2020.

Modern blues legend Shemekia Copeland was our Artist of the Month in November, when we celebrated her latest release, Uncivil War from Alligator Records. The song sequence offers quite a few topical numbers ranging from gun rights (“Apple Pie and a .45”) to LGBT affirmation (“She Don’t Wear Pink”). But a standout is certainly the title track, Copeland’s most bluegrassy foray yet, which features Sam Bush and Jerry Douglas

Song-interpreter extraordinaire Bettye LaVette held down the AOTM post in August, reminding us of the value of persistence, perseverance, and perspective – especially by Black women. Her interpretation of the ubiquitous “Blackbird” recalls the fact that Paul McCartney wrote the song about a Black woman (as British slang refers to a girl as a “bird”). In LaVette’s rendition, though, she is the one who’s been waiting… and waiting… and waiting for this moment to arrive. And, in a specific allusion to this moment in history, to be free.


On the Cover

Both country & western crooner Charley Crockett and old-time banjoist, fiddler, and ethnomusicologist Jake Blount graced our digital covers in the past year, demonstrating the width, depth, and breadth of Black contributions to American roots music across the country and drawing from various regions and traditions.

In our interview and on his most recent release, Crockett doesn’t just reckon with the current historical moment. With Welcome to Hard Times, which is comprised of 13 tracks of searing anguish set to slick, ’60s-style, country-western production, he’s also examining his own place in this moment, and how his music has a different impact with different audiences. Even as he — a man living somewhere between Black and white, privileged and not — feels that his message is obvious.

Queer old-time musician and scholar Jake Blount is intimately familiar with the history of Black artists in the twentieth century who spoke out against white supremacy and often paid for it with their lives. He sees his music — and his most recent album, Spider Tales — within that subversive, radical lineage, and rightly so. A critically acclaimed project that landed on seemingly dozens of year-end lists in 2020, Blount’s carefully curated tunes convey that racial inequality in this country is a long, self-feeding cycle and this current iteration of the civil rights movement was neither surprising nor unpredictable. In a year defined by music created in response to current events or simply passively shaped by them, Blount’s Spider Tales stands out, an example of action rather than reaction.

Last week, we celebrated the grand opening of the National Museum of African American Music in Nashville with a feature that explores the ways Music City has always been a major player in the African American music world — from the days of the Fisk Jubilee Singers to radio station WLAC breaking R&B, soul, and blues hits, and the Jefferson Street nightclub scene providing both valuable training for emerging artists and a vital showcase for established ones. The 56,000-square-foot museum, something of a musical equivalent to the the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington D.C. (definitely with the same level of visual splendor and attractiveness) is a testament to the Black, African American, and Afro contributions that have touched, impacted, and influenced every sphere of American pop culture and art.

The striking marquee of the National Museum of African American Music in Nashville, TN

The BGS Podcast Network

Over the course of the past year, the BGS Podcast Network has been proud to feature many Black artists over our shows about bluegrass, Americana, touring, wellness, and of course, music. On Harmonics season one, three Black women joined host Beth Behrs to talk about living through so much stress and tumult and how self-care, wellness, and music are all woven so tightly together.

Country singer and 2020 breakout star Mickey Guyton (who, for the record, has been a recording artist for more than a decade despite her recent meteoric rise) appeared on Episode 3, talking about writing “Black Like Me” — a song about her pain and struggles growing up as a Black woman in America — amidst the protests against police brutality across the nation. They also discuss country artists speaking out against racism and injustice, the power and importance of “three chords and the truth” in the midst of Music Row fluff, lifting other women up as a form of therapy, and, of course, Dolly Parton.

Two of Behrs’ closest friends, sisters Tichina & Zenay Arnold also appeared on the show. Tichina, Behr’s co-star on CBS’s The Neighborhood, and her sister are something like spiritual coaches for Beth. The three discuss the spirituality of music and the musicality of comedy, the timeliness of The Neighborhood as well as the pure spirit on the set, the absolutely necessity of open conversation in active anti-racism, balancing professional and familial relationships, and much more.

Finally, Birds of Chicago frontwoman and multi-instrumentalist Allison Russell decided to dig deep into her childhood traumas, the healing power of music and artistic community, the history of the banjo, and the intersectionality of the honest conversations in our culture on her episode of Harmonics. In addition to her career with Birds of Chicago, Russell is one quarter of the supergroup Our Native Daughters, with Rhiannon Giddens, Amythyst Kiah, and Leyla McCalla, and is preparing to release her first solo album.

On The Show On The Road, host Z. Lupetin curated a special episode last summer featuring clips and snippets from past editions of the show featuring Sunny War, Bobby Rush, Dom Flemons, and more. As he put it, “I’ve been lucky to talk with truly amazing Black artists, songwriters, and performers in the two years I’ve been creating The Show on the Road. I ask you to go back into our archives and listen to these voices.”

Later in the season, SOTR episodes featured Leyla McCalla — a talented, multilingual cellist, banjoist, and singer-songwriter and member of Our Native Daughters — and a special podcast swap with Under The Radar featuring truly fantastic Oakland-based artist, Fantastic Negrito. And just a couple of weeks ago, the show dropped an episode honoring Black History Month, featuring an interview with Jimmy Carter and Ricky McKinnie of the legendary Blind Boys of Alabama.

Plus, on the String, Craig Havighurst interviewed new lead singer for the Time Jumpers, Wendy Moten, and southern Gothic poet, songwriter, and Americana-blues wizard Adia Victoria.

And, not to be left out,  the BGS Radio Hour always includes music, premieres, and features of Black artists every week, as we round-up the best stories from our pages to include on the airwaves. Like this week, Allison Russell’s Sade cover and Valerie June’s cosmic new single, “Call Me a Fool” — which features Stax soul legend Carla Thomas — both appear on the show. And, on Episode 194, Chris Pierce, our Whiskey Sour Happy Hour friend Ben Harper, and Charley Crockett all make the playlist as well.


Shout & Shine

Our annual IBMA showcase celebrating representation and diversity in 2020 focused entirely on Black performers, building upon our collaboration with PineCone, who co-presents the event each year. Brandi Pace of Decolonizing the Music Room curated the lineup, showing our audience how seamlessly our missions intersect and build off of each other. The showcase lineup included Rissi Palmer, Tray Wellington, Stephanie Anne Johnson, Jerron “Blind Boy” Paxton, and more, drawing a direct line between Black musicians and bluegrass while highlighting the important role Black folks played in the genre’s creation as well as influencing all of its contemporary forms.

To build on this intention, we retooled our monthly column version of Shout & Shine as well, turning the interview series into a regular livestream event. Sponsored by Preston Thompson Guitars, each episode includes thirty-plus minutes of exclusive performances by Lizzie No, Sunny War, Julian Taylor, and Jackie Venson with more to come. Each set of music — and each interview as well — reinforces just how vibrant and varied roots music created by Black musicians and songwriters can be and just how valuable the perspectives and lived experiences of all kinds of people are to our communities.

Editor’s note: Read part two of our Black History Month celebration here.


Photo credit (L to R): Shemekia Copeland by Mike White; Rissi Palmer courtesy of the artist; Bettye LaVette by Joseph A. Rosen; and Mickey Guyton by Chelsea Thompson.

The Show on the Road – Listen to These Black Voices

Something powerful is in the air. While we may have said that after similar unrest in the past — after Rodney King in LA, Trayvon Martin in Miami, Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and countless others — something about what is happening now feels deeper, heavier. Maybe it’s actually sinking in.

I normally try to put out a new episode of The Show on the Road podcast every other Wednesday. This week, that simply wasn’t possible. It was time to stop giving my endless opinions, to stop waxing poetic about harmony, to shut up about finding the meaning in every lyric and just be quiet, listen and learn.

I’ve been lucky to talk with truly amazing Black artists, songwriters, and performers in the two years I’ve been creating The Show on the Road. I ask you to go back into our archives and listen to these voices. — Z. Lupetin, host

Sunny War


Discover a young, deep-voiced folk/blues artist like Sunny War, who overcame a troubled past with drugs and being unhoused in Venice Beach to create a series of critically acclaimed records that have brought her to festivals and venues around the country.

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Bobby Rush


A sonic elder statesman, Bobby Rush came north from Mississippi during the great migration to work in the heyday of the Chicago blues and soul scene with Muddy Waters and Howlin’ Wolf. Rush has been making brashly funky and fearlessly sexy songs for decades, finally snagging his much-deserved first Grammy at the age of 86.

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Birds of Chicago


Based in Nashville by way of Chicago by way of Montreal, Birds of Chicago are centered around the powerful chemistry of husband-wife duo JT Nero and Haitian-Canadian banjoist and clarinetist dynamo Allison Russell, who gives every audience chills when she sings about her fallen ancestors. How she is not an international star astounds me. You may have seen her newest creation as part of the African American, female banjo supergroup, Our Native Daughters with Rhiannon Giddens, Amythyst Kiah, and Leyla McCalla.

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Dom Flemons


If you need to go back in time and educate yourself about Black cultural history (which you do), listen to our double episode with the great American songster Dom Flemons, who came up in the renowned Black string band Carolina Chocolate Drops. Of course, he has since struck out on his own to become a sought after, roving ethnomusicologist and music historian. His newest Grammy-nominated record brings us back into a forgotten world of Black cowboys, who don’t get the credit they deserved in helping settle the West.

LISTEN: APPLE PODCASTS • MP3

LISTEN: APPLE PODCASTS • MP3


Liz Vice


If you’ve been having a crisis of faith and need a little musical medicine, Liz Vice’s episode is the ticket. Vice grew up in Oregon singing gospel music with her family and aiming to be a filmmaker. Her career as a songwriter and performer blossomed with homemade, deeply felt, deliciously soulful and social-justice-forward records (examining her faith and our ever-evolving relationship to a higher power). We recorded in an old church in LA, and her renewed version of Woody Guthrie’s “This Land Is Your Land” is haunting.

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The War and Treaty


Finally, if you need a shot of pure, joyous harmony and unabashed rock ‘n’ roll spirit, our episode featuring The War and Treaty is exactly what you need. They show us how music can be a healing tide to rise all broken ships. How it can be a force for good, bringing now power-couple Tanya and Michael Trotter together against all odds after Michael came back from a trauma-filled tour of duty in Iraq and needed a way to reenter society and share the songs that had been brimming in his heart for decades. Hearing them sing together, how they complete each other totally, is all the hope I need right now.

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Celebrate Black History Month with These 15 Artists

American roots music wouldn’t exist if not for the voices, stories, and musical traditions of Black Americans. Full stop. Celebrating the Black forebears of Americana, bluegrass, country, and string band music, pointing out their importance and their essential contributions to these genres we all know and love today needs to happen year-round, not just February. 

The BGS editorial team believes strongly in this idea, and though readers will be able to find several Black History Month features and articles in the coming weeks, we encourage you all to also take a dive back into our archives for stories that highlight Black creators and artists from all points across the last year. 

Mavis Staples on Live From Here

Ceaselessly relevant, Mavis Staples recently gave a keynote presentation at Folk Alliance International in New Orleans where she once again gleefully assured the audience she wouldn’t be done singing ‘til she didn’t have anything else to say. And she has plenty left to say! Watch Mavis Staples on Live From Here with Chris Thile. 


Yola’s Year of Debuts

Yola’s debut album, Walk Through Fire, landed on our BGS Class of 2019 lists for Top Albums and Top Songs — and nearly every other year-end list across the industry, too. Naturally she popped up a few times in our pages: In our in-depth interview, when she made her Opry debut, and when she dropped an blazing Elton John cover.


Liz Vice on The Show On The Road

Liz Vice is a Portland born, Brooklyn-based gospel/folk firebrand who is bringing her own vision of social justice and the powerful, playful bounce of soul back to modern religious music. She is following a rich tradition that goes back generations to powerful advocates like Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Sam Cooke, the Staples Singers, the Ward Sisters, Aretha Franklin, and especially Mahalia Jackson, who was the soundtrack to the civil rights movement. Listen to the Liz Vice episode of The Show On The Road.


Brittany Howard, Artist of the Month and More

Our November 2019 Artist of the Month stunned in a stripped down duet with Alicia Keys at the Grammy Awards last weekend, her well-earned musical stardom solidified by her debut solo album, Jaime. Our Artist of the Month interview anchored our coverage of Howard’s new music, but her Tiny Desk Concert really captured readers’ attention!


Steep Canyon Rangers with Boyz II Men

Yes, you read that correctly. A combination none of us knew we needed that now we can never go without. The Asheville Symphony backs up the two groups collaboration on “Be Still Moses,” a moment transcending different musical worlds and genre designations. You can watch that performance here.


Rhiannon Giddens: Booked, Busy, and Blessed

How much can an artist really accomplish in a year? A quick scroll through the BGS halls shows a Grammy-nominated album, being named Artist of the Month, scoring a ballet, playing the Tiny Desk, debuting a supergroup, and oh so much more. We are more than happy trying to keep up with Rhiannon Giddens’ prolificacy.


Ashleigh Shanti on The Shift List

The Shift List is a podcast about chefs, their kitchens, their food, and the music that powers all of it. On an episode from September we interviewed Chef Ashleigh Shanti of Benne on Eagle, an Appalachian soul food restaurant in Asheville, North Carolina. Her Shift List includes Kendrick Lamar, Nina Simone, and more.


Grammy Winners, Ranky Tanky! 

 

We spoke to Ranky Tanky about their album Good Time in August, less than six months before it would win the Grammy for Best Regional Roots Album. If you aren’t familiar with Gullah music, our interview will help you out.


Americana’s Sweethearts, The War and Treaty

Rapidly-rising folk/soul duo of  husband and wife Michael and Tanya Trotter, The War and Treaty have had a year chocked full of smashing successes. Of course the best way to catch up with them was on the road, so Z. Lupetin set up the mics for an episode of The Show On The Road.


Tui’s Old-time Tunes

Jake Blount, one half of old-time duo Tui with fiddler Libby Weitnauer, is a scholar of Black, Indigenous, and otherwise forgotten, erased, or marginalized American fiddlers in old-time and string band music. His work specifically spotlights the source musicians whenever possible, undoing generations of revisionist history in roots music. Tui’s recording of “Cookhouse Joe” was featured in Tunesday Tuesday.


A Sitch Session with Birds of Chicago

A song with a message well-timed for almost any era, “Try a Little Harder” seems especially perfect for this very moment. Birds of Chicago do an excellent job bringing that message to the world. A suitably stunning Sitch Session.


Dom Flemons Talks Black Cowboys

If you haven’t heard Dom Flemons talk about his album, Black Cowboys, and the narratives and traditions that inspired it, this episode of The Show On The Road is essential. The music is captivating on its own, a perfect demonstration of Flemons’ uncanny ability to capture timelessness and raw authenticity, but with his scholarly takes and his depth of knowledge the songs take on even more meaning and power. It’s worth a deep dive — check out our print interview, too.


Gangstagrass Set the Standard

When you read Gangstagrass’s Mixtape of standard setters the parallels that emerge between foundational bluegrass and hip-hop are certainly surprising, but they also make perfect sense. It speaks to the longevity of this boundary-pushing, genre-defying group — that has been setting their own standard as they go.


Jontavious Willis Goes Back to the Country

“Take Me to the Country” is Willis’ paean to his homeland: “No matter where I go in the world, I can’t wait to go back to the country,” He told BGS in April of last year. “For me, that special place is a rural southern town in Georgia where I grew up. It’s such a quiet and calm place, and somewhere I crave when I’m far from it.” You can hear that truth woven into the music.


Octogenarian Bluesman, Bobby Rush

At 85 years old, Bobby Rush has been playing his brand of lovably raunchy, acoustically crunchy, and soulfully rowdy blues for over six decades. After winning his first Grammy at the humble age of 83, he has no plans of slowing down. We caught up with Rush on The Show On The Road.


Photo of Yola: Daniel Jackson 

The Show On The Road – Bobby Rush

At 85 years old, Bobby Rush has been playing his brand of lovably raunchy, acoustically crunchy, and soulfully rowdy blues for over six decades.

Listen: APPLE MUSIC • MP3

Starting from his days as part of the Southern migration from his hometown of Homer, Louisiana, to the South Side of Chicago — where he used to have Muddy Waters himself sub for him when he couldn’t do a gig — Bobby Rush, who won his first Grammy at the humble age of 83, has no plans of slowing down.

BGS Celebrates Black History Month

February is Black History Month and, in celebration, we’ve been going through our archives and re-reading some of our favorite pieces about Black artists working in the roots community. Here are 10 of those stories:

Counsel of Elders: Taj Mahal on Understanding the World — The legendary bluesman shares his knowledge of African music and emotional intelligence in this 2016 interview. Read on to find out why, “If you don’t like my peaches, dont bother me,” are words to live by.

Music Maker Relief Foundation: Keeping the Blues Alive — North Carolina organization Music Maker is one of the most important resources for regional blues musicians hoping to get their music recognized. This interview with founder Timothy Duffy gives an overview of just how they do it. BONUS: Check out Music Maker’s new Black History Month podcast here.

Counsel of Elders: Bobby Rush on Staying Sexy — The title says it all: funky bluesman Bobby Rush offers a crash course in staying sexy, and discusses his newest album, Porcupine Meat.

Squared Roots: Rhiannon Giddens Studies the Songs of Dolly Parton — We learn a bit about how Giddens developed her phenomenal musical craft in this interview. Giddens discusses Parton’s songwriting, feminism and razor-sharp brain.

A Conversation with Jamaal B. Sheats, Director of Fisk University’s Art Galleries — Nashville HBCU Fisk University is home to one of the South’s most impressive collections of visual arts, drawing largely from the personal collection of Georgia O’Keeffe herself. The gallery’s curator speaks about working with the collection, as well as the role of visual art in protest.

Sitch Sessions: Dom Flemons, “Going Down the Road Feeling Bad” — This session with Dom Flemons will forever be one of our favorites, with the former Carolina Chocolate Drop member reimagining one of our most beloved folk songs on a beautiful Portland day.

Lightning Bolt Writing: A Conversation with Yola Carter — Yola Carter is one of the most exciting young acts in roots music. In this interview, she discusses her quick rise to notoriety, a forthcoming debut album and institutional racism.

Son Little and the Truth of Absolutes — The Philadelphia blues artist discusses his musical breakthrough, working with Mavis Staples and the evolution of contemporary R&B in this 2015 interview. 

Aaron Neville: Sharing Edifying Messages in a Dark Time — If musical styles were counted as lifetimes, then Aaron Neville has lived several. Known for his almost instantly recognizable falsetto, Neville has sung in all sorts of flavors throughout his 50-year career: doo wop, pop, gospel, country, soul, funk. You name it, he’s likely sung it.

On Histories, Stories, and Identities: A Conversation with Leyla McCalla — Both literally and figuratively, Leyla McCalla’s music exhibits a web of spatial exchange, particular histories bumping up against one another in ways that reveal their convergences.

Counsel of Elders: Bobby Rush on Staying Sexy

Bobby Rush is a character, the lines between his true self and his stage act blurring until it’s hard to tell which is which. And perhaps that’s the point. There really can’t be any sharp distinction, because Rush is a performer through and through, his time on stage merely a larger — and sparklier — version of the man he is day to day. Rush isn’t his real name, of course, but from the way he likes to refer to himself in the third person, you’d be hard-pressed to think there was anyone else beneath the folk-funk fiend who sings about being a “Night Gardener” (mowing a different type of lawn, if you catch my drift). Rush was born Emmet Ellis, Jr. in Homer, Louisiana, in 1935, before his parents moved the family to Arkansas when he was 11. As a young adult, Rush continued north, landing in Chicago until Jackson, Mississippi, called his name 48 years later and he resettled there, halfway between his first home and his most formational. “I been in the big city, out the big city, in the country, in the small town, what have you,” Rush says, his words coming in a — wait for it — rush, all peppered with a lilting Southern accent. The styles he picked up along the way all informed his music — a flashy, fun take on funk that’s as innuendo-laden as they come.

The number of songs Rush has recorded isn’t just impressive, it’s staggering. He likens the figure to well over 300 tracks, but add to that his latest effort, Porcupine Meat, and Rush doesn’t just show a proclivity for songwriting, but a fever for it. Porcupine Meat, the kind of strained relationship involving a woman one doesn’t really want but hesitates to set free, marks his debut with Rounder Records. Like the title suggests, it showcases all the sexy jocularity that makes Rush such a popular draw night after night, even as a touring octogenarian. Rush’s funk comes packed full of colorful lyricism and lots of wink-winks, but with new contributions from Dave Alvin, Keb’ Mo’, and Joe Bonamassa on the album, he’s once again made some seriously catchy music for the Saturday night crowds before they make it to church on Sunday morning.

You grew up a pastor’s son, but a lot of your songs don’t seem like they’d fit in church. How is it that you started exploring this funkier, sexier side to life?

Well, that’s what you think. The same people that come to see Bobby Rush on Saturday night are the same people that go to church on Sunday mornings. It’s like that now and it’s always been like that. Where I come from, there’s a praise dance when you leave this land; but when you’re born, there’s a sad time. Most people have a death, you cry; when you born, you smile. It’s kind of the reverse with people from Louisiana. You’re kind of sad when you come here, you're happy when you go away, especially if you go at peace.

You’ve cut so many songs. Where does that drive come from?

I think it comes from being desperate to be someone, to be a superstar. I’m blessed to have this work. I’m just a crazy guy who don’t mind working, who don’t mind putting my hand into the grits. It’s part of my personality. Somebody told me I could make some money doing what I’m doing after about 20 years in the business. It wasn’t about the money, at the beginning; it was about the love of the music. I still have the love of the music, although I still wanna get paid for things. But I love what I’m doing. I love the music. I love the people that I’m doing it for, and the reaction from them still gives me that drum to keep going. It’s like a shot in the arm.

I’ve seen your live shows, especially one viral video — “I Ain’t Studdin Ya” — from a show in Memphis about eight years ago, and you sure love bringing the ladies up on stage. As a man in his 80s, what does it take to stay sexy?

It don’t take much to stay sexy — just think sexy. When you see ladies up on stage with me, it’s not about playing sexy; it’s just playing life. My momma, my sister, my auntie … that’s my life. I just like showing the ladies off because I’m praising them. This what makes me go 'round. Whether you in church or whether you in the bandstand or whether you in an alley or a top of a hill, the love of a woman is what man lives for. And I use it that way, too, to have fun and to get people involved with me on a personal level. They look at the ladies, but then I let the ladies walk away, then I get to tell my story as an artist, and I play my music.

Your lyrics are incredibly playful. Where do you drawn inspiration?

That’s my personality. What I live for is taking care of my children, making love, taking care of the lady of the house, and doing for my kids, and doing for others what you wish to have done to you. And I do it for the ladies. It starts with my mom. I take care of my mom, take care of my sisters, take care of the ladies around me like they part of my sisters. If this is my lady, I’m gonna take care of her in a special way. I’m just showing what I do and what I care about in my life. Ain’t nothing in the world to me is more important than the ladies. Nothing. There’s so many times we, as men, put that on the backburners because we men won’t do — and can’t do — anything without the ladies in our life. What do you work for? You work to take care of the ladies, so you can be took care of sexually and, you know, just have fun.

I feel like your song “Porcupine Meat” could extend to more than just toxic relationships. There are so many times in life when we know better and yet still go after things that aren’t healthy.

I was trying to write a song that relates to me and many other men like myself. You get a relationship that’s not as good as it should be, or ought to be, but then you can’t leave because you’ll find somebody just as bad or worse. Then sometimes you got some things go on that’s real good, and you don’t want that to be shared with no other men. You lose something, if you lose a woman. You know she don’t mean you no good, but you just can’t leave. The best way I can sum that up is that’s porcupine meat: "Too fat to eat and too lean to throw away.”

How do you deal with “porcupine meat”?

All you have to do is face it. “Should I leave this lady or should I leave this man?” "But you know this old man I got, he make love decent, but then he don’t stay home, but he bring all his money, when he do come home. I got another man I could get, but he won’t stay home, but he ain’t got no job." That’s where you stand.

There’s always a tradeoff.

There’s always a tradeoff. That’s porcupine meat.

There’s a performative nature to your songwriting. I heard it come through especially on “I Don’t Want Nobody Hanging Around.”

I don’t want nobody hanging around my house when I’m gone! Not even the milkman. People don’t have milkmen today, but back in the day, the milkman brought the milk to your house. I don’t want the mailman bringing in the mail! [Laughs] Stop it at the post office. I don’t even want the preacher coming by, when you all alone. If he want some chicken, let him get it from somewhere else. I say that because, in the Black church, preachers — most of them — love chicken, and they want ladies to cook chicken, but I don’t want my lady cooking chicken for him so he got no excuse to come by the house. If the lights go off, sit in the dark. [Laughs]

That doesn’t seem like a very nice situation for a woman, though.

If you think of it, the dark can be a nice place. If you understand. When the lights off. [Laughs]

Do you think about how these songs will translate to the stage while you’re writing them? That line in “I Don’t Want Nobody” when you start shouting out “you, you, and especially you” seems like it gives you a great moment onstage to play with.

I will visualize. I know somebody in the audience really like the lady I’m with, someone that I’m close to. I’ll say "I don’t want you, you, you, and especially you."

Right, I can see you pointing to that person.

He knows who that is when I point. He knows he has eyes on this girl.

It all cycles back into your show, and that’s where you really get to shine.

I did it this weekend for the second time onstage. I had 200 records with me and I walked off the stage and, in five minutes, they was gone. People was really into that record. I think it’s going to be one of the biggest records I ever cut. Let me tell you what, God has really blessed me to live this long, cutting records. Here’s what happened: I’m from Louisiana, and it’s the first time I recorded in Louisiana. And every musician except one was native of Louisiana. When it was finished, I had tears in my eyes. God has blessed me to come back home and do this for the first time.

It’s reflected in the music; you can hear a different kind of energy. And then you’ve got a musician like Keb’ Mo’ on it. I mean …

Oh God, what a hoooo. [Laughs] He’s just a lovely guy. All my guests were so wonderful. And it wasn’t about no money with these guys. These guys were in love with me, in love with the music, and they just wanted to play with me. I could never never thank these guys or pay these guys for the attitude they put into this playing.

Lastly, from your vantage point, what kind of advice can you offer up-and-coming artists?

I can tell young people, when it’s an old guy like myself, have a talk and listen and watch. When I was a young man, I listened … but not well enough. I disrespected Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf when I was very young. I took it for granted. These guys loved Bobby Rush, they had their arms around me.

I’m the last of the kind to do what I’m doing. I surely want to pass the torch on to the young guys. You got some older guys still doing it. But mostly an older guy is doing it in an old-fashioned way. What I like, the young guys are doing … they try to do what I do: I’m an old guy, but I still create, and do new licks and new directions and take it to another level. That’s what guys have to do. The Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, BB King … all great, but it’s been done. We got to take their foundation and create something from that and make a new thing.

You always have to be growing and stretching.

We have to modify. We don’t want to modify too much and lose what we have. We don’t want to cross over and cross out.

 

For more Counsel of Elders, read Amanda's interview with William Bell.


Photo credit: Rick Olivier