Daniel Donato Has Many Horizons in Sight, Literal and Metaphorical

Although names like Billy Strings and Sturgill Simpson currently corner the market at the intersection of country, jam bands, and bluegrass, rising star Daniel Donato has emerged in recent years with an out-of-this-world sound – and his newest project may be his best yet.

On Horizons (which released in August) the prodigy who as a child honed his skills on Guitar Hero and Nashville’s Lower Broadway turns a new page with an 11-song, hour-long compilation that brings his live and studio sounds together with drawn-out jams conjured up by his longtime bandmates from Cosmic Country – a moniker that describes both the group’s sonic and spiritual ethos.

“I want there to be a Cosmic Country sound where you can hear it right away, you can hear the first eight bars of any song and say, ‘That’s it!'” says Donato.

“Some of it is technical, like using the same microphones and the same studio as the last record. And some of it’s just in the way we approach it – and that’s something we get better at every time.”

Sitting on the back of his month-old tour bus affectionately referred to as “The Snowman” prior to a recent show in Lexington, Kentucky, Donato spoke to BGS about his Lower Broadway roots, creative freedom and restraints, and the catalysts for Cosmic Country.

We already touched upon your similarities with Billy Strings, but what about your parents’ influence – I know they played a big role in your musical foundation as well?

Daniel Donato: Everything when I was younger came from my parents. My father had a certain disposition for great rock and roll music like Pink Floyd, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Led Zeppelin. But to be honest, I really don’t know where all of it comes from, because if you and I listen to a record we’re both going to hear it in different ways. For that reason I think a lot of this just comes from something that’s already dwelling within us and we’re just expressing from within that place.

For example, when I first heard Marty Robbins, I loved all the great guitar on it. And when I heard the Grateful Dead play “Big River” and make it eight minutes long in a really artistic and authentic way, I love that too. They’re all influences, but they start externally and creep inside you to the point that you take them with you everywhere you go and create from that place of soul, which is a combination of the body, the mind and the spirit.

Ever since I started playing guitar, I’ve always felt like I sounded like me and that “me” is constantly changing and revealing itself more and more. It’s like what Bob Dylan said – “I contain multitudes” – and it’s true. There are multitudes of self that just keep getting revealed through this authentic expression.

Was there a specific moment that served as the catalyst for you picking up the guitar and pursuing a career in music?

There have been many, but arguably the biggest was when I first saw the Don Kelley Band at Robert’s Western World and was in a state of shock – I’m getting goosebumps just thinking about it. That moment of hearing them and seeing how they interacted was amazing and was a big motivator in me wanting to do that too. It was a call to adventure and a reminder to believe I’m capable of anything, which is what ties all of these moments together.

That is not a self-assertive belief, that is a belief grounded in an authentic desire to make something beautiful so I can be of service. It was a big turning point in my life when I first started conceptualizing and receiving that, because then you can give it and then it turns into the cosmic circle of all things.

Some might perceive it as arrogance, but I think there’s a lot to be said for having the confidence to know what you’re doing is worthwhile and constantly chipping away to get better and reach your goals, whether that’s in a musical sense or wherever else life takes you.

I had already tried other forms of expression in my life before it, like sports. I also tried skateboarding and really loved video games like RuneScape, World of Warcraft, and chess. Even so, there were so many things I was bad at and I didn’t have beliefs that I could do them. But with music and the guitar, I could intuitively feel the potential I had with it and immediately locked in.

Artistry nowadays is parasocial on a lot of levels because of this immense amount of connectivity that we have on the various social platforms. [They] make it so anyone can get into the business of needing the world to give them permission to say something or express something real, when in reality the world does not need to give you permission for any of that. I’m not saying you should participate in any of the unspeakable, ungodly things we see happening to humans around the world, but if you want to express something artistically and you feel it’s true to you, then why should you need to get someone else’s approval to do that?

That idea to the mind is [like a] letter to the Pony Express – it needs to be delivered and it needs us to exist in flesh so we can externalize these internal values and expressions. It doesn’t need other people, it needs you, but at the same time it does bring people together – it’s so strange. It’s the thing that comes from most within an individual, but it’s also the thing that is the most unifying to an external community. It’s this weird “as above, so below” reflection that is purely righteous, so as I get older I feel I have more grace in relation to that particular part of existence.

The communal element seems to be a huge driving force behind not only your live show and fans, but this new record as well. Whereas some artists opt for a more straightforward studio approach, what made you want to emulate the energy from a gig on Horizons?

Cosmic Country records, to me, are like movies. The most enduring elements of certain movies that I love are the really long ones that have a very dynamic and rich storyline with a lot of drama and comedy in an attempt to scale the human experience. Like in A Fistful of Dollars, Django Unchained, or The Hateful Eight. The art is asking a lot of you during these three hour-long films, but it’ll give you a lot, too. There’s reciprocity there and our community is always willing to take the trip, which is equal parts liberating and terrifying. [Laughs]

If you were asked to write the score for a film, what would you want it to look like?

It would have to be a very truthful opportunity for me. I have always wanted to do that, even when I was really young. I always wondered where music and movies came from. But for now, we put out our records, and we play a lot of shows.

Speaking of the new album, you’ve been playing most of the songs on it live for a while now. What kept you from holding some or all of these songs back until the project’s official release, which it seems more and more singers are doing nowadays?

I like to look at our music as living music. It’s liberating in potential, but it’s also liberating because it gives you a framework to operate and create within. Every day of your life is different, so why wouldn’t the music that accommodates your life every day be different? These new songs are no different than a young child – they do better when they get to go out and be around people so they can grow spiritually.

That’s why it’s also important to share stories that everyone knows, which is why we incorporate a lot of covers into our shows and even recorded a volume called Cosmic Country & Western Songs in 2021. It gives people context and I love doing that. My favorite part of playing at Robert’s was we only played covers all those years so I’ve always loved making other’s songs my own – because if a song is good enough, you can play it with an original feeling.

But with Horizons every song I had my hand to the pen, even “Hangman’s Reel” – a traditional Celtic fiddle tune that the band and I fit into the Cosmic Country framework.

You’ve mentioned Robert’s Western World a couple times now. A couple weeks ago you returned there after making your headlining debut at the Ryman. What was that like?

We’ve done what’s never been done down on Broadway – going from cutting your teeth on the street corners and at places like Robert’s to topping a bill at the Ryman. It’s a common storyline for folks in Nashville to get their starts down here. Some go on to become songwriters, others become singers on stage and some become session musicians, but it all starts down on Broadway.

What I learned down there led me to getting in the door at Robert’s and leaving my blood and sweat on that floor there – like a dojo – before carrying us all the way to the Ryman. It was incredible getting to do a full headlining set up there and then going back home to where it all began at Robert’s and doing another set of music for their fans. We’re actually planning to release both soon as live recordings, so stay tuned!

With Horizons you placed parameters on how many times you’d go back to record and work on each song. With how open-ended so much of your creative process seems to be, what made you opt to place constraints there?

If your personality has a disposition for conscientiousness and open mindedness, it becomes that individual’s responsibility to see the trends of that because it can help optimize the way you engage with human relationships when creating projects. When we went and did Reflector we spent a lot of time on things we didn’t need to because I didn’t know better at the time.

When it came time to record Horizons I knew we could take half the amount of time to make it because we play it every night and shouldn’t need a bunch of tries to get it right. So I decided we’d just aim for three takes of a song to be more efficient. There’s a liberating faith that comes with knowing that’s good enough. If you know you have seven chances, you’re probably going to take seven – but we’re trying to work to ensure it only takes one.

You were talking earlier about creating living music, and stuff like this seems like it helps to keep what you do in the studio just as fresh as what you’re doing out on the road.

They’re two very different things. One’s a picture of a person and the other one’s a person. A picture can do a lot, but it’s not that person, especially when it comes to thinking about a picture of someone that you love who is no longer alive. Even then it’s not the same as them being in the room with you again to hug you.

For instance, I know that there will be a day where I have a gig and I won’t be able to call my dad to debrief – that’s gonna be a tough one. So the live thing is almost like a conveyor belt trying to make it an exact replica of what’s going on on the albums. There are people I see do that and I really respect how they do it because it’s authentic to them, but it was never for me.

How did your approach to bringing Horizons to life differ from how you tackled Reflector and other projects previously?

We had two years of intense experience constantly working on these songs between albums. It made me a different person on some level because I had a better idea of what to aim for and what not to aim that really allowed us to hit the bullseye this time compared to Reflector. And I’ll probably be saying the same thing again when the next record comes around, which will be a lot different than Horizons.

You just alluded to going a different direction with your next album. Someone else known for that who I know has heavily impacted your musical trajectory is Sturgill Simpson. How’d you get sent down the rabbit hole of his music?

Man, I remember when Sturgill Simpson worked at the Turnip Truck in the Gulch in Nashville, I would always see him there and thought nothing of it until one night when I was at The 5 Spot and heard him on stage singing for the first time. Then when Metamodern Sounds In Country Music came out I was in my friend Harrison’s basement. We had gone to Grimey’s to buy the record, we smoked some weed, turned it on, and listened with headphones on. It was and still is a defining moment in my listening experience of music – that record is so special.

Looking back I can see why Sturgill wanted to make a bunch of 180s, because from SOUND & FURY to Sailor’s Guide each album is its own thing. Most successful artists have one signature piece of work, like Tyler Childers’ Purgatory, Chris Stapleton’s Traveller, Tom Petty’s Wildflowers, the Grateful Dead’s Workingman’s Dead, or Neil Young’s Harvest. Unless you’re someone like Bob Dylan or Willie Nelson where you have over 100 albums out. There’s usually one record where you’re like, “that’s the one.” With cosmic country we don’t have that album yet, but I think Horizons could be it.

What has the process of bringing Horizons to life taught you about yourself?

The concept of a Horizons is two-fold. There’s a literal, geographical, physical, material horizon where the land meets the heavens. Then there’s the metaphorical one, and we’re always pushing the cosmic country horizon. But there’s also a psychological horizon where you’re meeting your potential that the sky is symbolic of.

As Alan Watts would say, “there’s a dance to those things,” and I feel that since we put out Horizons that the band and I are on the verge of new horizons. It truly is the dawn of a new day.


Photo Credit: Jason Stoltzfus

Finding Lucinda: Episode 11

For the finale of their road trip, Ismay finally gets to meet the center of this entire narrative – Lucinda Williams. Their goal is seeking guidance about what to do with their self-doubt. Ismay discovers that Lucinda had one major difference in her origin story that is the key to understanding why she never gave up herself. Ismay and Lucinda also discuss items from the archives that Ismay has gathered along their route to Nashville. Ismay performs the song, “Spin,” from the archives for her and is surprised by Lucinda’s reaction.

LISTEN: APPLE • SPOTIFY • AMAZON • MP3

Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is now available to purchase, rent, or stream via video on demand. (Find ways to watch here.) Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay.
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Nashville Recording: Recorded at Room & Board Studio.
Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Siobhan Maher Kennedy, Ray Kennedy, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Rebecca Jordan Williams, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams, and Tom Overby.


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here.

Finding Lucinda is available to watch via purchase, rental, or video on demand. Find out how to watch here.

Caroline Spence in Conversation With Lori McKenna

Caroline Spence and Lori McKenna are both lauded for writing songs that cut straight to the heart. In conversation, it’s clear they also share admiration and a generosity of spirit, offering insight into how a life built around family can both coexist with and deepen a life in music. The two met with BGS via Zoom to discuss Spence’s new record, Heart Go Wild, produced by Peter Groenwald, Mark Campbell, and Spence herself.

As Spence charts her first year of motherhood, McKenna reflects on building a catalog of piercingly honest songs while raising five children of her own. Together, they explore the mysteries of publishing, the influence of mentors like Mary Gauthier, and the butterfly effect of one songwriter’s choices on another’s path.

Their exchange drifts from songwriting craft to the role of co-writers in self-discovery into the bigger questions of life: how family and creativity intertwine, how community ripples outward, and how songs become offerings that carry meaning long after they leave the writer’s hands.

What emerges is a portrait of two artists at different points along similar paths, each proving that family life and creative life are not competing forces, but intertwined sources of inspiration and strength.

I know you two have a lot to talk about, but I’d love to start, if we can, with how you know each other? Did you know of each other musically first, and then how did you come to know each other personally?

Lori McKenna: I think the first time we met might have been at breakfast that time?

Caroline Spence: Right. I think that was another Bluegrass Situation connection. I think that was the first time I met you.

I had a good friend from summer camp and we would often trade mixes. She put one of your songs on a CD for me. I had already found Patty Griffin and was having my singer-songwriter love affair. That led me to The Kitchen Tapes, which led me to everything else. And I distinctly remember when Faith Hill cut “Stealing Kisses” and I thought, “Wait, that’s how that works?” I didn’t know what publishing was. I didn’t know how music worked in that way and that became a new little baby dream of mine that I carried with me: to write a song that was good enough that maybe somebody else would want to sing it. I feel like I would not be aware of the job that I have had I not found you, Lori.

LM: That is really cool. I remember not knowing anything about publishing, how it works and all that stuff, too. And I still feel like I know just a tiny bit more.

CS: I know, totally. It’s still a mystery.

LM: We were at a wedding over the weekend and my son Chris, who’s a writer in town, has his first single that he co-wrote that’s going to radio. So we were singing songs and at the end of the night, my brother was like, “Chris sold the song!” I’m like, “It’s not called selling the song.” He’s like, “Well, how does it work?” Nobody knows.

CS: Yeah, nobody knows. They just stream it now into the abyss.

LM: The only reason I knew anything was because of Mary Gauthier. I did know people who had moved to Nashville before Mary, but because I’m in the Boston area, they came back saying, “Yep, it’s very different.” It is very different in Nashville. I didn’t know anyone who had stayed before Mary, you know? I love being inspired by other people. I love it that that’s how life works, that you see someone else do something, and you’re like, “Wait! I can do that! At least I can try!”

CS: I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately, the butterfly effect, and how that happens within our community. Like, if Mary hadn’t done this, then this wouldn’t have happened for you, and if you hadn’t done that, then I wouldn’t have known about this, and I’ve been thinking about that as I’ve been in this creative community for a decade now. There’s so much stuff that you never know your little ripple is doing.

LM: The ripple is such a good word. It’s such a ripple, isn’t it? It’s crazy. We’re really lucky. I know you just had a baby, but the number of people that come up to me and ask, “How did you do this with kids?” Nobody told me that I couldn’t. I know stories of other artists that someone’s told, “You can’t do this and have a family at the same time.” I’ve heard those stories, but nobody ever told me that.

It didn’t seem impossible at the time. But now my son Chris has a baby. I look at them and I’m like, “Wait, how does anybody do that ever? How does anybody have a baby?”

CS: Man, some days it really feels that way. Most days it feels that way. No one ever said that to me either, but those are absolutely the cultural messages you absorb. There are certain gigs I might not get because of my familial obligations, but you just make your choices. And I’m not building my life around what I “might get.” I want to build my life around what I know I want to have. I just feel like all of that is gonna feed your person. You can’t starve yourself of these big, beautiful growth opportunities for some sort of potential. My life is bigger than my career, and I would like it to be as big as possible.

LM: And it’s crazy, right?

CS: Yeah, it’s nuts. Absolutely nuts. The fact that I got a shower this morning is a big win.

LM: Well, that and the fact you’re putting a record out!

CS: Yeah, yeah, and the record!

LM: You did good.

CS: It’s a little bit cuckoo, but it’s been done for a while. A lot of the heavy lifting was done even before I was pregnant, so that was an accidentally smart idea and we’ve just had to be strategic about everything else. I feel like there’ll be a lot of people who assume this is a record about marriage and family, which it’s not. I’m sure I will have that, but this feels like a record that’s more about the chaos before I decided I could do all that.

LM: From the minute I knew who you were, I’ve always loved the way that you express your feelings in such a way that makes other people be like, “Oh! I’ve felt like that! This song makes me realize that I’m not alone in feeling that.”

There’s something in the way that you write that is like arms are reaching out, but they’re also like, “I know you feel this way, too and it’s okay that we all feel this way.” I feel like that’s why music exists. For someone pulling over their car and being like, “Oh my god, okay, I’m not gonna die today because I just heard the song!” It is the biggest reason, the service of songwriting, as Mary Gauthier says. You don’t do it consciously, but it just is your way of doing it. It just seems so innate in the way you write.

CS: That’s so kind and means a lot to me, because that’s really how I feel about it. It’s been a progression. I started writing because I needed to get these hard things out when I was a younger person and as I started putting those out there, I would have conversations where someone would say, “I feel that way, too.” That kind of cemented in me to keep writing from that place, because that’s what music did, and still does for me.

What is personal is universal. I feel like someone smart said that before I did, but it’s so true. And Mary’s perspective of songs as a service resonates so deeply with me. There’s a quote I read when I was doing The Artist Way a few years ago that says, “The artist has to be humble, for he is essentially a channel.” To let the divine in, whatever it is, to flow through you, you have to get small and get in your humanity.

And when I’m feeling really in my head and when I don’t want to perform or I’m feeling self-critical, I think about what I’m doing as an offering, and it makes me feel better and more inside what I’m trying to do.

LM: I love the offering.

CS: People want to feel understood. As a listener, you want to find your soundtrack for your hard time or your good time.

LM: Well, congratulations on doing all this, because the record’s beautiful, as usual. You co-produced this whole thing, right? Did you always co-produce? Because this record seems, and I hate to use the word “rockier,” but it feels like it moves a little bit more. Was that intentional?

CS: I think a lot of that might sort of be a songwriting change for me. I feel like I’ve gotten better at translating what I’m hearing into the actual thing, so I think that’s a skill I’ve slowly developed from my slow folk songs for years.

LM: The transition is so beautiful. With the song “Soft Animal,” if I wrote that song, it would be just the slowest. It wouldn’t move the way [it does].

CS: It totally started on the page, too. It was very much like a poem. Sometimes I sit down to a piece of writing, if I’m going through my ideas, and if something’s sort of dead on the page, I’ll just start playing. That one was one where it sort of just came out that way. The clash of “Soft Animal” to something that felt really thrashy, the irony of that felt celebratory to me, and it was fun. That’s one of my favorites production-wise on the record.

LM: Oh, that’s great. When I work with a producer, you can tell. You can listen to the record and know that this is definitely different. But there’s been this really consistent line with you the whole time, which is kind of remarkable when you think about how much you’ve changed in life and as a person over the years. There’s this vibe that really just comes through where you can tell that you are a big piece of the production of everything.

CS: Thank you for saying that. That was actually a dealbreaker thing for me for this record, that I would only work with people who would give me a production credit, because I felt like over the years – and not to discredit the people who are credited as producers on my albums – but because of who they are as producers, it was collaborative, and there were times when I was making sure that my vision got to the finish line in spite of their initial instincts. I didn’t know it mattered to me until maybe I’d read some press that would bring that person’s name into it and it made me feel a certain way.

Producers are important because I think it’s really helpful to get outside of yourself and your own instincts, and to be challenged. But sometimes what’s helpful is to be challenged, and then you know exactly how firmly you feel about something.

For this record, I really wanted to know that it was collaborative from the jump. That felt incredible, and I worked with two people who had the best energy and a healthy sense of ego, and it was just really fun.

LM: That’s awesome. You come through. I’m exactly the opposite, because I can’t stand being in the studio.

CS: I understand that as well.

LM: I don’t know how you do it, because I literally only hear the song and what it sounds like when I sit at my kitchen table and sing it. People kept telling me over the years that I’d start to hear parts. So I am a person who needs producers… I’m just like, “Here are the songs.”

CS: Yeah, I’ve done that so many times, I’ve given a pile of songs and been like, “I don’t know what I made. What’s speaking to you?”

LM: Well, this morning I was listening to the album again, and I thought, “Oh, she’s gonna produce other people’s records someday.”

CS: That’s very kind and, honestly, a thought I hadn’t really had for myself, but I really did enjoy it. I think if I ever do that, it’s gonna be because of the experience I just had with these people that built up my confidence in that space. It was a lot of fun.

LM: You have this beautiful voice. I have an unpretty voice and you have a very pretty voice that you know how to use really well. You can say the hard things with that beautifully well-orchestrated production and then your beautiful voice, and it still makes you feel all the feels, versus I always feel like no matter what I sing, it’s gonna sound sad.

CS: I feel like a lot of the time I try to be like, “I’m not so sweet,” and grit up the production or avoid certain songs. I was self-conscious about it, which I think may be some internalized misogyny, because I have such a high female voice.

Speaking of songs being of service, babies and children come out singing, you know? It’s such a natural thing to do. We’re meant to do it. It’s joyous; it’s a release. And knowing the way it feels in my body to perform or really sing has changed the way I perceive my own voice.

LM: It is the first thing anybody knows how to do.

CS: Your voice has this wisdom to it. It kind of doesn’t matter what you’re singing; it sounds like you believe what you’re saying and you trust what you’re saying. You have this earnestness to your voice. If you were singing “Red Solo Cup” I’d be like, “That song means a lot to me.”

LM: I actually was at a round at the Bluebird [Cafe] with the Warren Brothers a couple of weeks ago, and they sang “Red Solo Cup.” I am so jealous of songs like that, because I could never write them.

In terms of writing for you, how have things changed since the baby?

CS: I haven’t had the same amount of headspace. My publisher held a sync camp and my mom came to town to help. I wrote for days straight and that felt really good to get back at it. As far as writing by myself, that’s just now kind of coming back.

LM: Is your son enjoying you playing the guitar?

CS: It’s a pacifying thing. I could put him in his playpen if I want to and mess around on guitar, and he’s super happy to listen. The other day, I was practicing for this Springsteen cover night that I got asked to do and I just started kind of riffing around. The flow started and that felt really good. I was like, “Oh, okay, it’s still in there.” I just hadn’t had the circumstances to put myself in the position where I’m visited by that energy. Being in creative spaces with others has been really nice right now, too, to slowly rebuild.

LM: When my kids were little, I actually wrote a lot. They all shared a bedroom and, after dinner, my husband would work on the house while I tried to sing them songs – sometimes terrible ones – or make up songs while they fell asleep. That routine gave me more time to write than I expected.

Two of my kids are songwriters now, though at the time they probably went to sleep just to get away from me singing the same line over and over. But honestly, if I hadn’t had that hour and a half every night with them, I don’t think I would have learned how to write. I wasn’t planning to be a musician. My children gave me the time and space to discover that.

By the time I had five kids, I started doing open mics. I never would have had the courage to get up there if I didn’t have my kids. They were my world, so if people didn’t like what I did on stage, I could always just go home and sing in the living room with them. That gave me the confidence to try.

CS: That balance is so important and it’s hard to reverse-engineer for people. If you move somewhere completely career-focused, you can get lost in that and miss the balance of family and partnership. I feel like any sense of longevity in life or career needs that.

For me, I’ve realized that to be a happy, well-rounded person – good partner, good friend – I need a rich family and personal life. Otherwise, my career just eats me alive. I think the reason you’ve been able to sustain your career and create a catalog of songs full of humanity is that you’ve always had that balance.

LM: Exactly. And it’s not just a woman’s thing. I know men who do it, too. But when you put family first, you have to say no to some things. You can’t always do that week-long tour, for example. But the things you say no to fade away; you don’t remember them. You only remember what you did. Instead, you stayed home and sat in the backyard with your kids and that’s the summer you wrote that one song that you’re still singing years later.

Love is supposed to be the thing you surrender to. It just opens up the universe wider. I’ve seen it happen again and again; even songwriters who know exactly what they want in their twenties, after falling in love or having a child, the world opens up in new ways.

CS: That’s making me emotional. That’s exactly where I am right now. I feel like my life is starting in a really good way. My career feels like it is starting over again. It is making me recalibrate how I want to show up in the world. And it’s freeing to have my compass aligned around my family. It feels like a new beginning. It’s really beautiful.

LM: That’s exactly it. Parenthood gives you a stream of love you hadn’t experienced before and it changes everything creatively. For me, it didn’t really happen until my fifth child, but it always happens. The universe shows up when you do something hard, like having a baby. I remember putting out a record in May, right around the birth of my son, David. By Thanksgiving, I had Faith Hill cuts. It’s like the universe says, “We should remind her that she gets to keep doing this.”

CS: That really resonates.

LM: I always listen to the last song on a record first.

CS: I love that because some of my favorite songs on your records are the last songs.

LM: When I heard “Where the Light Gets Through,” that song is such an offering, such a service. I don’t know if you want to talk about where that song came from, but years from now you are still going to have people tapping you on the shoulder saying “thank you” for that song.

CS: We’d made the record basically and we couldn’t figure out the last one. I said to the producers, “What if we write this one together?” Mark and Peter started building the track. I was going through ideas and I’d been writing a lot about my brother-in-law’s passing away. It just so happened that something I’d written fit almost exactly word for word and we shaped it from there. It couldn’t have just been me on that record, because it needed to feel lighter than I wanted it to.

LM: I know exactly what you are talking about. That’s why I love co-writing. You get perspectives that you could never create alone. Sometimes you can’t do it by yourself, and the song only exists because of that.

I’ve had that experience with Liz [Rose] and Hillary [Lindsey]. I had a song I’d been trying to write for a month by myself and I was so mad I couldn’t. I showed it to them and Liz was writing and singing it immediately. Hillary was like, “Do you know this song?”

CS: Do you feel like that is possible because you know each other so well that they can meet you where your brain is?

LM: Absolutely. And that’s another thing I love about co-writing. You fall in love with each other so quickly in the room. And when you trust yourself with someone, you can say the dumbest thing and it might turn into the smartest thing. I rarely sit with someone who doesn’t make me feel like I can speak my mind. With Liz and Hillary, Liz can read my mind and Hillary is like a musical and emotional genius. They both are.

Parenthood also gives you that focus. You don’t have all the time in the world, so you go straight to the point.

CS: I’ve heard many parents say they become more productive because they have to think differently about time and energy. I feel that now, with my baby being a little more self-sufficient.

LM: Exactly. And think of all the things you can do since having a kid! You weren’t opening drawers with your feet before, were you! Well, I love what you do, and I was genuinely happy when I heard you were pregnant. It’s a good thing for artists to step into family life.

CS: There’s a class of women my age choosing to have families now, balancing careers – it feels like a statement in all the best ways.

LM: Parenthood changes your perspective. You look back and wonder how you managed everything, but the flow and the creative life meet you there. You make the things you have to make because that’s what we’re here for.

CS: Man, there’s a lot of stuff I needed to hear today that you just spouted out. Thank you for spending time with this record.

LM: Congratulations. The record is so good. I hope the biggest challenge with it is all the things you have to say no to.

CS: And I won’t remember them, like you said.


Explore more of our Artist of the Month content on Caroline Spence here.

Photo Credit: Caroline Walker Evans

A Country Road Trip

Editor’s Note: Each issue of Good Country, our co-founder Ed Helms will share a handful of good country artists, albums, and songs direct from his own earphones in Ed’s Picks.

Asleep at the Wheel

Among the many excellent Texan country & western bands Asleep at the Wheel have been standing tall for more than 50 years. Their new album, Riding High in Texas, collects ten of the best songs about the state from some of country’s most iconic artists and writers – and it features quite a few stellar guests as well, like Lyle Lovett, Brennen Leigh, and Billy Strings.


The Creekers

A few short weeks ago, no one would have faulted you for not knowing who Eastern Kentucky bluegrass band the Creekers were. Now, their track “Tennessee” is seemingly everywhere on the internet. The song has been used on more than 36,000 TikTok videos and the group has quickly amassed upwards of 60,000 followers on the platform – plus, “Tennessee” has been streamed more than 3 million times on Spotify and has racked over half a million spins on YouTube! Let the catchy tune do the explaining why.


KIRBY

Here’s some Good Country! Now, it’s true not every track from this Mississippian genre-bender’s brand new album, Miss Black America, would be “permissible” on country radio, there are still plenty of rural, down-home, red clay, Americana moments throughout this impeccable collection. From the visuals of the album and her social media accounts to tracks like “The Man,” “Reparations,” “Mama Don’t Worry,” and “Thick n Country” it’s clear KIRBY and her material would fit right in alongside the best of today’s pop country and country trap – and would certainly outshine most songs in those subgenres, too.


Sabine McCalla

The GC team was first introduced to this incredible singer-songwriter, Sabine McCalla, through her equally talented sister, Leyla. But soon after that she took the internet by storm with her Western AF video performance of “Baby, Please Don’t Go” – which rests comfortably at 1.1 million views on YouTube. McCalla just announced her debut full-length album, Don’t Call Me Baby, arriving November 7 via Gar Hole Records and we can’t wait. The singles she’s released so far promise more lovely and innovative heart-wrenching indie-roots music.


Margo Price

New Margo Price music is always cause for celebration. We’ve worked with Margo a lot over the years, from Bonnaroo to the Good Country Goodtime at Newport Folk Festival this July, and we’re constantly impressed by her drive, grit, tenacity, and the way agency is at the center of all of her work. That’s certainly true for her brand new album, Hard Headed Woman. Don’t ever change, Margo.



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Photo Credits: Asleep at the Wheel by Curtis Clogston; The Creekers courtesy of the artist; KIRBY by Justin Hardiman; Sabine McCalla by Camille Lenain; Margo Price by Yana Yatsuk

The Winners and Recipients of the 2025 Americana Honors & Awards

Last night, the Americana Music Association held their 24th Annual Americana Honors & Awards at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Tennessee. The star-studded show, which packed plenty of magical moments into its three-hour-plus runtime, was hosted by actor/comedian/musician John C. Reilly and featured performances by John Fogerty, Emmylou Harris, Joy Oladokun, I’m With Her, S.G. Goodman, and many, many more.

Fiddler Alex Hargreaves, currently touring and recording with Billy Strings, won the first award of the evening, Instrumentalist of the Year, while Appalachian “heavy petal music” starlet-pixie Sierra Ferrell was awarded Artist of the Year. Nathaniel Rateliff & the Night Sweats’ latest LP, 2024’s South of Here, won Album of the Year and Gillian Welch & David Rawlings took home a trophy each for Duo/Group of the Year.

Nashville singer-songwriter, session playing stalwart, and community leader Buddy Miller returned yet again as the musical director of the Americana All-Star Band – including Don Was, The McCrary Sisters, Fred Eltringham, Jen Gunderman, Jim Hoke, and Larry Campbell – to supply the evening’s first-class music. Plus, the McCrary Sisters were honored by AMA and the National Museum of African American Music with the Legacy of Americana Award.

There were many more noteworthy moments, performances, and appearances throughout the proceedings, which were livestreamed via NPR Music – watch here to see all that you may have missed. Below, you’ll find a full list of the winners and honorees – with “Of the Year” awardees marked in bold. Americanafest continues through the rest of the week in Nashville, promising even more roots music magic all across Music City.

I’m With Her – Sara Watkins, Sarah Jarosz and Aoife O’Donovan – perform during the Americana Honors & Awards at which they won Song of the Year. (Photo by Erika Goldring/Getty Images for Americana Music Association.)

ALBUM OF THE YEAR

Lonesome Drifter, Charley Crockett; Produced by Charley Crockett & Shooter Jennings

Foxes in the Snow, Jason Isbell; Produced by Jason Isbell & Gena Johnson

Manning Fireworks, MJ Lenderman; Produced by Alex Farrar & MJ Lenderman

South of Here, Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats; Produced by Brad Cook

Woodland, Gillian Welch & David Rawlings; Produced by David Rawlings

ARTIST OF THE YEAR

Charley Crockett
Sierra Ferrell
Joy Oladokun
Billy Strings
Waxahatchee

Margo Price and host John C. Reilly center stage at the Americana Honors & Awards. (Photo by Erika Goldring/Getty Images for Americana Music Association.)

DUO/GROUP OF THE YEAR

Julien Baker & TORRES
Dawes
Larkin Poe
The Mavericks
Gillian Welch & David Rawlings

EMERGING ACT OF THE YEAR

Noeline Hofmann
MJ Lenderman
Medium Build
Maggie Rose
Jesse Welles

INSTRUMENTALIST OF THE YEAR

Fred Eltringham
Alex Hargreaves
Megan Jane
Kaitlyn Raitz
Seth Taylor

SONG OF THE YEAR

“Johnny Moonshine,” Maggie Antone; Written by Maggie Antone, Natalie Hemby & Aaron Raitiere

“Ancient Light,” I’m With Her; Written by Sarah Jarosz, Aoife O’Donovan & Sara Watkins

“Wristwatch,” MJ Lenderman; Written by MJ Lenderman

“Sunshine Getaway,” JD McPherson; Written by Page Burkum, JD McPherson & Jack Torrey

“Heartless,” Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats; Written by Nathaniel Rateliff

Darrell Scott sings with I’m With Her – Sara Watkins, Sarah Jarosz, and Aoife O’Donovan – at the Americana Honors & Awards. (Photo by Erika Goldring/Getty Images for Americana Music Association.)

AMERICANA LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT HONOREES

Joe Henry
Darrell Scott
Old 97’s

LEGACY OF AMERICANA AWARD

(co-presented with the National Museum of African American Music)

The McCrary Sisters

SPIRIT OF AMERICANA FREE SPEECH IN MUSIC AWARD

Jesse Welles


All photos via Getty Images for Americana Music Association, credits as noted.

Lead image: David Rawlings, Nathaniel Rateliff, and Gillian Welch perform during the Americana Honors & Awards; by Erika Goldring.
Alternate images: David Rawlings & Gillian Welch pose backstage with their award for Duo/Group of the year; by Terry Wyatt.

Finding Lucinda: Episode 10

Ismay wakes up the day after interviewing Mary Gauthier ready to attend a live performance by Lucinda Williams at the Ryman Auditorium. In order to finish out their journey, Ismay hopes to interview Lucinda right before her show and find a conclusion to their road trip. However, it turns out that due to unforeseen circumstances the interview is no longer possible. So, Ismay attends the show anyway and has to make a decision about whether to continue following Lucinda or to move forward. Plus, they meet up with engineer and producer for Car Wheels On A Gravel Road, Ray Kennedy.

LISTEN: APPLE • SPOTIFY • AMAZON • MP3

Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is slated for release on September 9, 2025. Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay.
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Nashville Recording: Recorded at Room and Board Studio.
Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams, and Tom Overby


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here.

Pre-order the documentary film via Apple TV here.

Finding Lucinda: Episode 9

Ismay travels across Nashville to the Station Inn to meet with legendary folk singer-songwriter Mary Gauthier. This episode of Finding Lucinda is different from those in the past – rather than interviewing a character from Lucinda Williams’ history, Ismay speaks to Mary because of their shared experiences as fans and devotees of Lucinda’s music.

Mary reveals that her most well known song was in fact directly derived from techniques Lucinda uses in her songwriting. This conversation turns out to be incredibly revelatory, as wisdom Mary imparts allows Ismay to discover that what they initially thought this journey was all about may in fact be completely upended.

LISTEN: APPLE • SPOTIFY • AMAZON • MP3

Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is slated for release on September 9, 2025. Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Nashville Recording: Recorded at The Station Inn.
Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams, and Tom Overby.


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here. Pre-order the documentary film via Apple TV here.

Sunny Sweeney’s Musical Full-Circle Moment

Self-producing an album wasn’t something that Sunny Sweeney spent much time pondering – until it happened.

Rhinestone Requiem is the pinnacle of her taking charge, hoeing her own bean row, and flexing her self-determining vigor. It’s just the latest from an artist committed to exploring her imaginative energies on her terms.

“I’m happy with what we ended up with on this project,” said Sweeney. “We could just pay ourselves. Plus we only had to have two opinions [hers and co-producer Harley Husbands’] versus more opinions.”

“Our mentality going in was, ‘We know how to do this and we are going to try it and see what happens.’”

Rhinestone Requiem, released August 1, is pure Sweeney, sharing tales of figures who win hearts readily and whose outlaw lifestyles embody freedom from responsibility. There are songs devoted to romantic quests, the forever keeping on and the forever searching, like such richly rendered titles as “Traveling On” and “Diamonds and Divorce Decrees.”

Most of the album’s tracks are the result of Sweeney’s collaborations with several musicians she has been working with for a number of years. There are also two covers, “Find It Where I Can,” popularized by Jerry Lee Lewis, and “Last Hard Bible” by Sweeney’s friend and mentor Kasey Chambers.

Though she once saw the sharing of songwriting duties from a tentative and even negative point of view, Sweeney wholly embraced the notion of teamwork on Rhinestone Requiem.

“Songs were written with the rest of the people that I have known for a long, long time … I know what I’m going to get when I write with those people. They know their strengths and I know my strengths, and that’s why we continue to write together.

“I used to never collaborate,” she continued. “But now I’m co-writing and thinking this is awesome. I was petrified at first. Songwriting with others forces you to put down all of your worries. A lot of people worry about co-writing. But I see it as a double bonus thing. You hang out with friends and you get to work.”

Rhinestone Requiem is a throwback to Sweeney’s upbringing and all of the earliest things that have had a colossal effect on her: Her father’s records, which she had open access to; listening to Jerry Reed; watching The Dukes of Hazzard; processing the initial songs that jiggled her plaster loose.

Sweeney vividly recalls at age 8 hearing Jessi Colter’s “I’m Not Lisa,” a great example of one of her songwriting paradigms of setting mood and meaning.

“I sat and watched the record play,” said Sweeney, “I remember thinking she sounded really sad, but now I know what she’s talking about. I also remember hearing Jerry Reed’s ‘Amos Moses.’ I thought, man, what type of noise is this? I knew I needed to hear more of it in my life. Waylon Jennings’ ‘Good Ol’ Boys’ theme and I loved The Dukes of Hazzard. I told my mom that I wanted a son and was going to name him Bo and Luke Duke. I loved them both, those Duke boys, and I loved that Telecaster sound.”

The whole fictional gang of rural Hazzard County folks, Bo and Luke and Daisy Duke, mechanic Cooter Davenport, accident-prone though incorruptible deputy sheriff Enos Strate, and others, resembled the classmates, pals, and neighbors who Sweeney was raised with in the Texas countryside.

“Those were the kinds of people that existed in my life,” said Sweeney. “Country boys were dressed like that and they’d drive too fast down the street. I saw Daisy Duke and I wanted heels like that. Daisy Duke. Dolly Parton. Grease. Heels and lipstick. I had seen my future!”

Sweeney was born in Houston, but after her father decided that he no longer wanted to work in the family insurance business, he quit the agency and packed everyone and everything up and drove more than 200 miles north to Longview, where he’d grown up.

“I’m grateful for that small town,” said Sweeney. “I don’t know if I would have ended up in the music business if I wasn’t raised there. There were opportunities for small-town people and small-town interactions, which have shaped the way I feel musically.”

Indeed, the move to Longview would play a decisive role in Sweeney’s relationship with music. There was a low-watt country music station in the town of about 60,000 people featuring a succession of howling DJs who routinely tried to break the songs of lesser-known artists, allowed for call-ins, and welcomed conversations. Sweeney started listening in the third grade and calling in to request Conway Twitty.

After her parents’ divorce, Longview was also where her mother met Paul, the person who would become her stepfather – and, in hindsight, her biggest career influence. Paul and one of his brothers liked to twang the guitar. Nurturing and never hardhearted, Paul slowly and caringly taught Sweeney how to play the instrument. The first guitar that he gave to her was a black composite Martin, “a cheap, old, sentimental thing,” she said. She learned that her grandfather was a member of a big band orchestra. He played the trumpet, drank scotch, and chain-smoked cigarettes. She thought that he was the apex of cool. But the notion of becoming a musician as an occupation seemed, in her words, “far-fetched.” She asked Paul what he thought – and he merely grinned.

Years later, Sweeney, thinking about her stepdad’s tenderness, her grandfather’s stark sense of flair, and some of the songs and musical moments that touched her as a child, she re-examined her intentions.

“I had a college degree and I didn’t want to use it. I wanted to work for myself and wear jeans everyday and be my own boss. That was 20 years ago.”

Sweeney, now 48, lived in Austin for approximately 25 years, going through some precariously bony times, financially. She juggled other jobs while making barely enough to cover bills. At one point, strapped for cash, she pawned the original Martin that her stepdad had given to her. The Chaparral Lounge in South Austin was the very first place that Sweeney performed and several months elapsed before she would muster the courage to return to the stage a second time. That second performance took place in August 2004 at the Carousel Lounge on East 51st Street.

“There was a halfway house across the street and I was not that good,” she said. “My mom said that there were two or three minutes in between each song and lots of discussing how we were going to play it.”

Swiftly, however, Sweeney improved. “I threw myself into it 150 percent.”

She began hustling seven nights a week, performing wherever there was the potential of a free meal or the likelihood of even a single pair of listening ears. At grocery stores, perched on hay bales, in the rutted corners of falling apart parking lots. If the spot had electricity, she would play there. And if it didn’t, she would still sing, at any rate.

“Many nights I played outdoors without lights,” said Sweeney. “We had lights on a stick, two canister lights, before LED lights. At Poodle Dog Lounge, which was a staple in Austin – now Aristocrat Lounge – there was no stage. No credit card machine. No dance floor. There were some chairs, and you were three feet in front of that, standing there. I missed one or two Sundays in three years.”

At Poodle Dog Lounge, Sweeney played her set between 8 and 11 p.m., plenty of shuffles and polkas to satisfy the dancers. Her act was mostly covers, with the occasional original thrown in, hoping that the audience was too sauced or too ebullient to even notice.

Her rewards and incentives, she said, were comparatively picayune. “Eating for free was pretty cool. Not having to get up early. Maybe play at a couple of other nearby towns.”

Things were moving along satisfactorily, if not spectacularly, when she received a message on MySpace from a record producer who told her that he liked what he had heard out of her in a club in Austin one night. He was based in Nashville, and once he learned that Sweeney would be performing there, he showed up. Without delay he offered her a recording contract.

Since then, she has won over a sizable group of listeners with a repertoire of songs that are frank, discerning, and occasionally grief-stricken, teasing, provocative, and ultimately convincing.

@sunnysweeney New song from the new record! You ever tried to get away from a relationship that keeps sucking you back in? #sunnysweeney #countrymusic #foryourpage ♬ original sound – Sunny Sweeney

Co-producer Harley Husbands has worked with Sweeney for about 10 years, his guitar licks always craftily and reliably adding richness to their musical portraits. The pair are so joined at the hip that his contributions to Rhinestone Requiem are virtually indistinguishable from Sweeney’s, their palettes bleeding into a single piece of artistry.

“We live together and work and travel and play together,” said Sweeney. “That forces you to work well together in the studio. We’ve got no time to not work well together. Having a bad day? Too bad.”

Sweeney said that the vocals on the record are about as close to the authentic article as she could deliver, done without any polishing or cleansing or much enhancing. She credits Harley with being the ultimate arbiter, the most prized of assayers. He knows her voice better than anyone. If she didn’t sound right at a particular moment, he made sure to tell her so.

“I’d be in the vocal booth running through songs and he would be in the control room, knowing what I do like hearing out of myself… He knows what I like to hear. If he was not hearing me sing that way, he would know it perfectly. It’s as close to me knowing it on my own as possible.”

Her vocals on Rhinestone Requiem are firm, authoritative, and insightful enough to be considered some of her best work.

“It is not smushed down and compressed,” said Sweeney. “It is as close to sounding as they’ve sounded at the show. I don’t like it when you buy a record and put it on the turntable and it doesn’t sound like what you’ve just heard at a show. I like reaching the high end. It can be shrill. Either people love it or hate it. Harley’s job was mixing me and pulling out my significant sound and frequency, but without squishing what people are already used to hearing.”

By the way, a requiem, by definition, is an action or token of remembrance. It is a word that has generated a bit of droll reaction, Sweeney said. “Some guy just wrote on my page that we need to pick a word that we can pronounce. I laughed my ass off out loud. My sister said that we need to get those boys a dictionary!”

Nevertheless, it is a pleasing and easily engaging listen, whether to devotees or casual fans of clear-cut country. Out of the new songs, “Traveling On” and “Diamonds and Divorce Decrees” are receiving the largest number of spins.

“I hate having to pick songs to release as singles,” said Sweeney. “I think we should release all of the songs and let people pick themselves. There are a couple of deeper ones, like ‘Half Lit in 3/4 Time’ that I’m really liking. ‘As Long as There’s a Honky Tonk’ is going over well at gigs and live is getting a really good response.”

Indeed, the formula of Rhinestone Requiem is the same modus operandi of loving labor, mischievous candor, bittersweet humor, and resolute truthfulness. And it seems to be paying Sweeney impressive dividends.

“Years of wearing myself out and gigs and travel,” said Sweeney. “I’ve started to see people now at every single gig. It’s all starting to feel real now. We’ve been living with these songs for a year, and now other people are now hearing them. The excitement is building.”


Photo Credit: Nash Nouveau

Ragtag East Nash Grass Say We’re All God’s Children

Featuring Harry Clark on mandolin, James Kee on guitar, fiddler Maddie Denton, bassist/Dobro player Jeff Partin, and Cory Walker on banjo, East Nash Grass began as ragtag group of pickers blowing off steam at a honky-tonk in Madison, Tennessee, just northeast of Nashville proper. It has always been a band open to both unusual ideas and committed to the classic form. Still, their new album, All God’s Children, takes the metaphorical cake.

After winning the 2024 IBMA Award for New Artist of the Year, touring internationally, and even making their co-headline debut at Nashville’s Ryman Auditorium, All God’s Children feels like a joyful tribute to the many ways life gets good – and to bluegrass’s many salt-of-the-earth styles. With skillful traditional picking and a focus on diversity (both thematically and in the band’s tendency to share the spotlight at center stage), East Nash Grass deliver a truly spirit-satisfying album. Just don’t let its name fool you – this ain’t gospel.

“I enjoyed that it’s a little bit of a misnomer,” says Kee, with a touch of mischief in his voice. “We are a fairly traditional bluegrass band and we do some gospel music, but … anybody who knows us would know pretty immediately, it’s not a gospel album. I kind of liked that it would make somebody who doesn’t know our music take a second look.”

Out August 22 and featuring everything from good-old fashioned traveling songs to a reimagined West African folk tune, All God’s Children celebrates the coming together of worlds. James, Harry, and Maddie spoke with BGS from a Montana tour stop and explained how they reached their universally minded creative crossroads.

What’s the vibe with you guys these days? The last few years have been a bit of a Cinderella story and you’ve done so well. How are you feeling creatively?

Harry Clark: We’re in road mode right now. I feel like we were in a real creative mode around December when we were finishing the album and you kind of have to go into a different mode for … “Alright, let’s get through three weeks on the road in a van.” That’s a different kind of mindset.

But going into the album process, was there no pressure to change the way you’ve been doing things in the past – just because now there’s been a little more success?

HC: I feel like there are just ideas and things that seem to exist that we want to bring into life. That’s how the creative process has been for us. I wouldn’t call it aimless, but we kind of just let it happen on its own in terms – what songs people are bringing in and what the mood of those are. It’s just recording a record. It’s kind of like seasons of your life.

This one has a little bit of everything. You’ve got some new songs, a couple covers, and even a [modified] Liberian chant. Was this just kind of a cross section of everything the band is into right now?

Maddie Denton: I think everybody’s been getting into different stuff on their own. And everybody’s writing with other people, while we’re writing together. So I guess “cross section” is a good word for it. We just wanted to put together some songs that we liked.

How about thematically? It’s called All God’s Children and you guys say very clearly this is not a gospel record, but it does have a spiritual element, right? What do you mean by that?

James Kee: We debated a couple different titles. I was afraid that this traditional bluegrass crowd would hear that [title] and assume it was gospel, which would be an issue. And then once I kind of sunk my teeth in, I actually thought that [song, “All God’s Children,”] was the heart of the album, and it just seemed like the right title.

All the songs on it are a good showing of different walks of life. It’s not just one thought for each song. It’s not about the same person throughout each song. It’s different short stories throughout the album. It kind of goes hand in hand with “all of God’s children,” because it’s a bunch of different things. Not just one.

MD: It also came about after we had done some international travel as a band. Some of us had been to other countries, but not with the band, and then in February of last year we went to Ireland and Switzerland with East Nash Grass and this record started falling into place after that. And then later in the year we went to France. I think we got inspired by seeing some different folks and ways of life than what we were used to. There’s a small element of world music inspiration behind the record, too. So I think that comes from just traveling more.

You have always been a very inclusive-minded band, while also sticking pretty close to traditional bluegrass roots. When you started at Dee’s [Country Cocktail Lounge], was that kind of the goal?

HC: I feel like that’s where we all came from individually. Each and every one of us grew up going to these lawn chair snapping festivals where you go up and they have the same bands every year and there’s people out watching the show in their lawn chairs – sometimes sleeping [like] they’re dead. But there’s also this killer community of jamming that happens at these festivals, and you go and you jam with people and you just learn the repertoire. You get together with people you haven’t even met before, but who’ve been in the same places, and you can just all kind of speak the same language.

We were able to take it from there. We all have that same background from our childhoods of going to these places and these shared experiences. So when we got together, it was like we had been doing it for a long time. But everyone’s got new ideas, new energy coming from other places musically as well. … I think we all pull from that individually and it comes out sounding like traditional bluegrass, but at the same time, not really at all.

After winning the IBMA New Artist of the Year award, do you feel like that is more accepted in the bluegrass community nowadays?

HC: It’s art and it has to move … so it just seemed like the time to do our own thing. The most important part is always the music. I hope it stands the test of time and somebody else listening can look back 20 years from now and say it was a good guidepost throughout the evolution of bluegrass music. That is most important to us, as opposed to trying to fit into a certain box that has just been built many, many times.

You all do a really good job of sharing the spotlight. Different singers, different featured instruments. From a friendship perspective, what’s it like watching your bandmates do their thing every night?

MD: Man, it’s pretty cool. Everybody is such a good musician and such a good singer. I mean, even Cory can sing a little bit – he just doesn’t like to do it and play banjo at the same time. Everyone has a little special unique thing that makes them stand out.

HC: For me personally, everyone has something they do really well that I just can’t do. And when I get to see ‘em do that, I’m in awe. It’s inspiring when someone crushes something right in front of your face and you’re like, “Man, I dunno how they do that every time.”

JK: Also anything that’s a win for one person in the band is a win for the whole band, and that’s kind of how we’ve looked at it. It’s like it’s the sum of all parts.

The reason I ask is because you made your headline debut at the Ryman Auditorium a couple of weeks ago. What was that night like?

HC: It’s hard to describe. It’s the Mother Church. It’s truly my favorite venue to see a show, and now play a show. There’s no time like the first time … and it’s just such an honor to be up there, have our name up there, and have our own little night there.

There’s only a few places where once I get on stage, it hits me where I’m at and what I’m doing, and then I focus in on everything so close, and that never helps me out. To touch on the question you asked prior to this, one of the best parts about this band is there’s been times where I felt like I didn’t play a great show personally, but the band probably played one of its best shows, because everyone can step up and pick up weight. It really pays off when that team spirit comes out, because I do feel like that night at the Ryman I got up there and was in my head – because of this place. But as a band, the band crushed it. Once again. It was a great feeling.

Tell me a little bit about the story behind “All God’s Children.” It’s got this warm and fuzzy bluegrass feeling and then you’ve got some joyful children noises in there too. Where’s all this coming from?

MD: Well, that’s our buddy David Grier’s son Nash Grier. Nash helped us out with those joyful children noises.

JK: Yeah, Nash is seven and he’s fluent in Japanese and English.

MD: And he can play – I mean, probably any instrument, but I’ve seen him play fiddle. He’s crazy good, so everybody keep their eye open for old Nash Grier. He’s coming for everybody’s jobs in Nashville.

HC: That was a song that me and Christian Ward and Cory Walker wrote and I kind of had that phrase in mind. The idea behind the song was loosely based on real life, but at the same time, it kind of has that old-time limerick thing where you can take whatever the words are and use your imagination to make ‘em what you want it to mean.

How about “Jump Through the Window.” Is this one the Liberian chant? I think it speaks to the way you made all these songs your own that I can’t necessarily tell.

MD: Yeah! Our tour manager and my best pal, Brenna MacMillan, she grew up with some siblings adopted from Liberia, and they knew this song, this chant. It was like a thing that the Liberian kids over there knew. … Brenna came to me with this idea of like, “Hey, there’s this chant that I grew up hearing with my siblings and I think it would be cool bluegrass. Can you help me with it?”

Everybody spent time learning it because it’s kind of a weird thing, but we arranged it and everybody had really nice ideas. I think Jeff had some ideas at the end for those chord substitutions, and it just came together really nicely. Then we brought Brenna in to sing some harmony on it. There’s the part where we all are singing unison together, so Brenna is on that. The engineer of the record, Jake Stargel, also hopped on a mic and joined us in the little chant part. And James was the town elder singing the bass part.

That speaks to the inclusive nature of a set called All God’s Children, which you have done a few times here. I just wonder, what do you hope listeners take away from this batch of music?

HC: A bunch of merch. [Laughs]

MD: There’s a peacefulness to me about this record, and that comes from having seen some of the world and singing about those experiences and connectedness. For me, this record, it’s like we had to pull together to make it, and I want it to reach different types of folks and everybody feel connected.

HC: I remember when I was a teenager, I’d played bluegrass for eight years and it was becoming more and more the forefront of my life. And when I would hear something that hit me as new or fresh, it inspired me to want to do something new and fresh, and get out of the box a little bit. I hope we can do that for other young musicians. It feels good when you see a young musician that you see a little bit of yourself in, who is inspired by what you’re doing. It kind of gives it a little more gravity, and you realize, “Oh, there is reason and purpose behind this just other than fulfilling that weird urge to create art.”

JK: And to that end, with all of us being lifelong bluegrassers, we know there’s a big contingent of folks that know all these same songs that we know and won’t get outside of that box, and that is okay. There’s no problem if that’s what you want to do as a musician, is to play those same songs for the rest of your life. But I feel like this is a statement that you don’t necessarily have to do that. You can use the same traditional instrument lineup and be a bluegrass band by all norms, and create something new and do some new music, and this is kind of our offering.


Watch our DelFest Sessions with East Nash Grass here.

Photo Credit: Scott Simontacchi

Finding Lucinda: Episode 8

In the latest episode of Finding Lucinda, Ismay drives to Nashville to share the incredible never-before-heard tape they found during their road trip journey with friend Buddy Miller. Miller is known to have contributed essential parts to Lucinda’s breakthrough, Car Wheels On A Gravel Road. Ismay reviews the commonly told story about the making of this record, how fraught it was, and realizes that there actually is important history to uncover – history that reveals a more interesting and unexpected truth about why this record was so challenging to make. Ismay discusses Lucinda’s history in L.A., where she met a critical collaborator Gurf Morlix and subsequently made her albums Sweet Old World and Lucinda Williams.

LISTEN: APPLE • SPOTIFY • AMAZON • MP3

Produced in partnership with BGS and distributed through the BGS Podcast Network, Finding Lucinda expands on the themes of Ismay’s eponymous documentary film, exploring artistic influence, creative resilience, and the impact of Williams’ music. New episodes are released twice a month. Listen right here on BGS or wherever you get podcasts.

Finding Lucinda, the documentary film that inspired and instigated the podcast, is slated for release in the fall. Both the film and podcast showcase never-before-heard archival material, intimate conversations, and a visual journey through the literal and figurative landscapes that molded Lucinda’s songwriting.

Credits:
Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records, LLC.
Music by Ismay.
Artwork by Avery Hellman.
Nashville Recording: Recorded at Hummingbird Hill Studio.
Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino
Producer: Liz McBee
Director: Joel Fendelman
Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush
Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams, and Tom Overby.


Find more information on Finding Lucinda here. Find our full Finding Lucinda episode archive here.