My gourd banjo journey began on a crisp, winter day in downtown Ithaca, New York. While an undergrad at Ithaca College early in my banjo-playing days, I stopped by the local acoustic instrument store and saw a peculiar banjo-like creature hanging high up on the wall. I was instantly hooked. It had five strings and a short drone string just like my banjo. I could play the same clawhammer style I was familiar with, but everything felt and sounded different. The instrument had an earthy, plunky, and rich tone. Besides being completely fretless and tuned a few steps low, the head was made of a gourd that smelled like dirt. Flash forward 15 years and here I’ve just released an album of solo, unaccompanied gourd banjo music called Old Growth.
These days, I play a gourd banjo built by Pete Ross, an immensely talented banjo maker who lives in my hometown of Baltimore, Maryland, a town full of banjo history. The first professional banjo maker in the world, William Boucher, set up shop in Baltimore in the mid-19th century. The neck of this banjo, notably the scroll-shaped headstock, is modeled after the Boucher style. In addition to being a tool for creative exploration, the gourd banjo serves as a prism into the complex history of the banjo. It’s a reliable conversation-starter everywhere I go. For more on banjo history, I encourage you to read Well of Souls by Kristina Gaddy.
While compiling this list, I was struck by the sheer variety in tone and texture possible with the gourd banjo. While the instrument connects to the early roots of old-time music, it continues to serve as a platform for innovation. Every player is unique. This list features gourd banjoists from around the world playing traditional and original material. Let’s go on a deep dive into the gourd banjo! – Brad Kolodner
“Josie-O” – Adam Hurt
Arguably the most influential gourd banjo album of our time, Adam Hurt’s Earth Tones is sublime. Cover to cover, this is a dreamy album of solo gourd banjo pieces and it’s on regular rotation at my house. Adam is one of today’s most influential clawhammer banjo players and there’s no question his gourd banjo playing, and this album specifically, introduced the gourd banjo to much wider audiences inspiring countless musicians along the way.
“Old Growth” – Brad Kolodner
The title track of my new album Old Growth is a dark, spooky tune I wrote in the depths of winter, yearning for those sun-filled summer days in the vibrant forests just north of town. I tuned my banjo extra low on this track, hence the extra mellow vibes. The title speaks to the seemingly ancient sound of the gourd while nodding to how this music continues to evolve.
“Julie” – Rhiannon Giddens
A song inspired by a conversation between an enslaved woman and her mistress during the Civil War, Rhiannon Giddens’ use of the gourd banjo is particularly poignant on “Julie.” Rhiannon is a tremendous ambassador for the banjo. She’s reframing the conversation around the history of the instrument and the role Black folks have played and continue to play in American Roots music. The early incarnations of the banjo made by enslaved Africans were gourd banjos.
“Rolling Mills” – Pharis & Jason Romero
Based in Horsefly, British Columbia, Pharis & Jason Romero build some of the most gorgeous (gourd-geous?) banjos in the world. Jason Romero built the gourd banjo he’s playing on this track. Both are immensely talented musicians who take great care in their instrument building and songcraft.
“Darling Cora” – Nora Brown
One of the most exciting young banjo players on the scene today, Nora has a deep reverence for the roots of old-time music. Her playing is absolutely sublime. She plays a gourd banjo very similar to mine also built by Pete Ross in Baltimore. All gourd banjos are handmade, which gives each one a unique sound.
“Long Hot Summer Days” – John Showman & Chris Coole
Chris Coole is a banjo hero of mine and his gourd banjo playing on this John Hartford track fits perfectly. The slinky nature of the fretless gourd truly embodies those sluggish long, hot summer days.
“Gourdness” – Arnie Naiman
Arnie is one of Canada’s finest banjo players and a clever tunesmith to boot. I first heard his playing on the compilation album The Old Time Banjo Festival produced by Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer.
“Goodbye, Honey, You Call That Gone” – Jake Blount
Ok so, technically, Jake isn’t playing a gourd banjo on this track. He’s playing a fretless banjo with nylon strings which sounds an awful lot like a gourd banjo. The next incarnation of the banjo in the mid-19th century after the gourd banjo was along the lines of what you’re hearing on this track.
“Four and Twenty Blackbirds Dancing on a Deer Skin / Twin Sisters” – Teilhard Frost
Teilhard Frost resides on Wolfe Island in Ontario and is a longtime member of the band Sheesham, Lotus & Son. He set out to build gourd fiddles many years ago and now specializes in gourd and tackhead banjos.
“The Rain Done Fell on Me, Pt. 1” – Justin Golden
Primarily known as a blues guitarist and songwriter, Justin Golden plays a mean gourd banjo. Based in Richmond, Virginia, Justin is a gem of a human – and he’s been going through a real challenging time as he’s currently battling stage 4 cancer. There’s a GoFundMe for him here.
“Wild Bill Jones” – Ken & Brad Kolodner
When my father Ken and I first started making music together nearly 15 years ago, we figured the fiddle and banjo would be the core focus of our music. We soon realized the percussive nature of the hammered dulcimer and the drive of clawhammer mesh together beautifully. The gourd banjo adds yet another dimension to this unusual texture, especially when cranked up to the tempo of “fast.” That’s Ken Kolodner on hammered dulcimer, Rachel Eddy on guitar, Alex Lacquement on bass, and myself on gourd banjo.
“Western Pine” – Talise
In compiling material for this list, I came across this lovely original song by the Canadian artist Talise featuring gourd banjo. I’m excited to dig more into her work!
“Jagged Mountain Is on Fire (Gourd Banjo)” – Andrea Verga
Born and raised in Italy, Andrea Verga is one of today’s most inventive and creative clawhammer banjo players. He writes adventurous melodies; this tune is inspired by the jagged peaks of the Dolomite Mountains in Andrea’s home country.
“Ard Aoibhinn / The Hunter’s Purse” – Steve Baughman
Steve is one of today’s most influential Celtic fingerstyle guitar players – he’s also one of the most creative banjo players out there. He even plays clawhammer on guitar! This medley features a pair of Celtic tunes played on gourd and mandolin.
“Pompey Ran Away” – Clarke Buehling
Considered to be the first banjo melody officially documented, “Pompey Ran Away” dates back to the 18th century. Hailing from Fayetteville, Arkansas, Clarke Buehling is a renowned banjo player and historian who has long been an advocate for the gourd banjo.
Writer Marty Godby called it “The convergence of 1975.”
The elements: a band that would only be together for 10 months, a benevolent venture capitalist who loved bluegrass, and an upstart record label from Boston. The resulting product was unprecedented and unforgettable: The New South, Rounder Records 0044. Bluegrass fans know it simply as “0044.”
The New South of this recording was J.D. Crowe on banjo; Tony Rice on guitar; Ricky Skaggs on mandolin; Bobby Slone on bass; and Jerry Douglas on Dobro. The impact of that configuration and the album were stunning. Yet, within a year of the recording, Rice would leave to become a founding member of the David Grisman Quintet. Skaggs and Douglas formed Boone Creek. Crowe and Slone continued performing together for years.
Both the origin story and legacy of 0044 have inspired great narratives, probably more than any other bluegrass album. Bill Nowlin, one of the three founders of Rounder Records, wrote three articles for BGS on the album’s 40th anniversary. They offer a step-by-step look at what happened in 1974 and 75, plus hilarious and poignant anecdotes and quotes.
J.D. Crowe, already revered for his banjo playing and baritone singing, led a band called The Kentucky Mountain Boys. From 1968, they had a six-nights-a-week gig at the Red Slipper Lounge in a Lexington, Kentucky Holiday Inn. Crowe added non-traditional bluegrass instruments and songs to the Holiday Inn repertoire. This was as much to please a diverse audience as it was to keep the musicians from getting bored. In 1971, Crowe changed the band’s name to The New South.
Of the name change, Rounder’s Marian Leighton Levy said, “It was obvious that this was a new kind of bluegrass.” From a broader view, “It was an era when the South was, in a way, trying to self-consciously reinvent itself as a new, modern place. And they [The New South] were kind of the musical representation of that wider political context.”
It was the ’70s, and change was brewing – even in the tightly controlled world of country music, Levy noted. Around the same time, Willie Nelson and his Outlaw Country compatriots were reaching out to new songwriters and moving away, physically and musically, from “the factory system of Nashville publishing companies.”
In 1974, lead singer Larry Rice left the New South and brother Tony took over singing lead. Ricky Skaggs’ pure tenor mixed with Rice’s unmistakable mid-range voice, creating a new, dynamic tension for their duets and trios. In the summer of that year, Crowe and the band toured without any product to sell. At the annual Gettysburg Blue Grass Festival, Crowe, his friend and manager, venture capitalist Hugh Sturgill, and the young founders of Rounder Records initiated “The Great Convergence” – an agreement for a studio recording. An innovative contract led to the first New South album.
THE BLUEGRASS WORLD EXPLODED
As soon as they heard the test pressing, the Rounder founders knew they had something remarkable on their hands. “Jack Tottle [who, along with John Hartford, wrote liner notes for the album] was stunned, and he kept saying, ‘This is one of the most amazing records ever made.’ And he was not given to exaggerating,” Levy said.
“It was clear. It was crisp … and the more you played it, the more you wanted to hear it.”
0044 came out in the spring of 1975. Levy said by festival season, other bands were playing the tunes from the record “pretty much note for note.” One observer said that at one festival, almost every band on stage played “Old Home Place.”
So, what is it about that record? Let’s start with the musicians. Skip Heller, who initiated the 0044 Real Gone Music reissue, said everyone in that group of players “would talk about it like it was high school prom and their first love … they had all been in good bands before, but this was the first time they had been in a band that was as great as anything in bluegrass music had ever been.”
Levy said, “They absolutely knocked each other out. … And I think that long before anybody heard the record, they knew the band would stand the test of time – because of all of them, not just one person.”
The record’s title was The New South. Only after the first printing sold out, three band members had moved on, and it was time to redo the cover (read about the cover photo – a great story in itself), was it retitled J.D. Crowe & the New South. Crowe, born in 1937, was the venerated elder and a banjo icon. After entering Jimmy Martin’s boot-camp-of-a-band at age 18, he developed impeccable timing, his own take on Scruggs-style banjo, and excellence as a baritone singer. And he knew how to pick his band members.
The influences of Tony Rice (age 24 at the time) on bluegrass and related music are limitless – from cementing the role of guitar as a lead bluegrass instrument, to modeling impeccable rhythm playing and singing, to excelling in so many genres outside the bluegrass boundaries. At 21, Skaggs had the instrumental chops, a stunning voice and the instincts to become successful in both country and bluegrass. Rounder’s Ken Irwin attributes much of 0044’s innovation to Skaggs, including bringing a teenaged Douglas into the mix.
Douglas is to Dobro what Rice is to lead guitar. Fifty years later, after 14 GRAMMY awards and countless other honors, he continues to inspire and encourage musicality and creativity in Dobro playing. Touring with Alison Krauss since 1998, it’s likely that he has been heard live by more people than any other resophonic guitar player. Of the veteran, Bobby Slone, Mullins said, “Everyone in the band wanted to make sure that Bobby got a lot of credit. … He was such a rock solid force on that band, not just on bass, but as far as camaraderie was concerned.”
By the time The New South entered the studio, Crowe, Slone, and Rice, later joined by Skaggs, had spent hundreds of hours performing together at the Holiday Inn. Individually, they were superb musicians. Together, they were as tight as a band could be.
THE SONGS
Long before 0044, Crowe had blasted out from under bluegrass constraints, incorporating songs like Fats Domino’s “I’m Walkin,” and at Larry Rice’s suggestion, The Flying Burrito Brothers’ “Sin City.” The songs on 0044 were just a small set of a huge repertoire. While the unconventional musical choices sparked controversy among traditionalists, they also sparked a flame of excitement that spread quickly and widely.
In 1975, Mullins said, Ralph Stanley & the Clinch Mountain Boys, Jimmy Martin, and Bill Monroe were still “killing it” at festivals with their first generation bluegrass sound. “On the other end of the spectrum, Seldom Scene recorded Live at the Cellar Door,” an immensely popular recording, that year. Like the Country Gentlemen, the Scene had been recording songs totally out of the bluegrass box, using bluegrass instrumentation, but with an emphasis on rich melodies and harmonies, rather than just the drive of traditional bluegrass.
Mullins said, “You go to Crowe, who’s got the street cred from all his records with Martin, but he’s also looking ahead, and so he’s able to get it all in there. A lot of bands were playing to one side or the other … but to have one that hit right in the middle, right at that time, was unreal.”
“When they saw J.D. Crowe’s name up front, and they knew that he had played banjo with Jimmy Martin on all those records they had loved for 20 years, it probably made some of those hard-edged fans pay more attention,” he said.
Whatever the dynamics of the time, The New South became synonymous with great bluegrass. And 0044 made Ian Tyson’s songs forever acceptable in bluegrass jams.
ON AND ON
Kristin Scott Benson, six-time IBMA Banjo Player of the Year, was born the year after 0044 came out. Benson said she was about nine the first time she saw J.D. Crowe. He was playing with the Bluegrass Album Band, “and that was a formative experience. That band was so explosive, and the crowd had an air of chaos, because everybody was so excited to hear the band. Every time Tony Rice ended a solo, you couldn’t hear any music.” (Because of the crowd noise.)
It would be four years until she picked up the banjo, and two more years until she learned about The New South album – and what it meant to a banjo player.
On 0044, she says, “If you just talk quintessential banjo solos, you’ve got ‘I’m Walkin’ and ‘You Are What I Am.’ His tone is aggressive. It’s just such confident, groovy, greasy, pristine banjo. It’s impossible to overstate how good it is and how influential it is.”
“But I think you should listen to his contributions on the less banjo-friendly songs [‘Home Sweet Home Revisited,’ ’10 Degrees’], because Crowe was great at that. He was a magical backup player.”
Billy Failing, who currently plays banjo with Billy Strings, agrees. Failing started out his banjo life drawn to more progressive players like Béla Fleck. But, he said, “As time goes on, the more I circle back to J.D. Crowe. I think of how much of a gold standard he is for bluegrass banjo, and how interesting his playing is.”
“He’s considered a traditional player,” Failing continued, “but then I’m always hearing some lick that surprises me. It’s been a gradual thing, but it becomes more meaningful as time goes on. I was just listening to The New South album, and on ‘Cryin’ Holy’ – it’s just so slamming! He’s turned it up to 11 constantly on that one.” And, like Benson, he points out what he calls Crowe’s “intricate touch” on banjo.
“It’s such a cool kind of push and pull between whether he’s out front or whether he’s playing backup … it catches your attention in such a cool way.”
Benson said, “It’s easy just to be drawn to those obvious picks [like ‘Old Home Place’] but the album is so much deeper than that. This particular band presented a tightness and a level of execution that was new – I don’t think there had been a bluegrass record up until that point that was so well done.”
“The vocals, the arrangements are so well thought out. Everybody’s playing so well together. It was just a special moment and a special group of people, and I think it raised the bar for bluegrass albums,” she said, and made an imprint on so many contemporary musicians.
Benson poses the question, “Who’s the most influential modern bluegrass guy? It would have to be Tony Rice, because he affected the genre with his rhythm guitar playing, which is phenomenal. And that type of rhythm playing affects the entire groove of the band. It became the new standard, what most people go for.”
“Never discount the importance of his rhythm,” she continued, “and then obviously his lead playing, but also his singing and his material choice … so if someone pinned me down and I could only name one, he might be the guy.”
Failing, speaking of his bandmates, said, “Everybody’s inspired by The New South. I hear Billy [Strings] constantly talking about his inspiration by Tony Rice, and Jarrod [Walker] by Ricky Skaggs.” (Walker wrote liner notes for the Real Gone Music re-release.)
Mullins noted that the Rice/Skaggs blend – a lead singer with a baritone-range voice coupled with a high tenor – established a hair-tingling blend that continues to be emulated, from Ronnie Bowman and Don Rigsby in Lonesome River Band through Alison Krauss’ duets with Dan Tyminski and Russell Moore.
Benson said, “It’s an important record for the genre as a whole, and it’s also an important record to me, personally, and really, to any banjo player who is serious about learning. It’s one of those essential albums.”
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
First, how did it come to be widely known as 0044? Well, nobody’s sure. Irwin and Levy remember being in the very early stages of their operations at the time – with both a new label and a new distribution company. All three Rounders had been totally immersed in music, but they were learning the business as they went, developing it on their own terms.
Levy speculated, “It is possible that it went back to when we were just calling records by their numbers,” when there just weren’t that many products. “So, it may have been something we started when we were talking, and other people picked up on it, not intentionally. And we thought it was sort of humorous.”
And how did members of Emmylou Harris’ Angel Band get left off the credits, as well as the fact that J.D. played guitar on it? John Lawless goes into depth in his fascinating Bluegrass Today article.
HAPPY 50TH BIRTHDAY
As the liner notes to the Real Gone Music re-release say, “Virtually no other album anywhere in history is known to its audience by its label number. Not Kind of Blue, nor Pet Sounds, Glenn Gould’s Goldberg Variations, none.”
That says quite a bit about the recording’s importance. So does the fact that two labels are issuing re-releases this year.
The Real Gone Music edition is pressed on gold-colored vinyl for its golden anniversary. Both re-releases contain two cuts not included on the original product: “Why Don’t You Tell Me So?” and a version of “Cryin Holy” with Emmylou’s voice in the mix.
Failing sums up what 0044, J.D. Crowe, and the musicians he surrounded himself with mean to him and to many of the pickers making the best music today.
“Every time I circle back to the Bluegrass Album Band, The New South, and J.D. Crowe, I’m reminded, ‘that’s how it’s done!’”
Following more than 30 years since first meeting and countless times sharing the stage during festivals, the two most accomplished fiddlers in International Bluegrass Music Association history have finally teamed up for their debut album together.
Released March 14 via Fiddle Man Records, the aptly titled Carter & Cleveland sees the combined 18-time IBMA Fiddle Players of the Year Jason Carter and Michael Cleveland flexing their bluegrass muscles on compositions from some of the most prolific songwriters around – like Darrell Scott, John Hartford, Tim O’Brien, and Del McCoury.
Coincidentally, it was with McCoury and his sons’ band, the Travelin’ McCourys, with whom Carter spent the last 33 years playing until the February announcement that he’d be stepping away from the groups to focus on his solo material and collaborative projects, like this one with Cleveland.
“I just thought it was time to start pursuing other things, like my own career,” explains Carter about his decision to leave the bands. “That being said, I never thought I’d be leaving the [Del McCoury] Band. I recently gave a fiddle lesson and the person I was teaching told me he was surprised I left the band and I remember telling him, ‘I’m kind of surprised too.’ [Laughs] But it’s so rewarding to be doing something new with my own band along with getting to play with Mike.
“I’m also really excited to see the McCourys play with their new mandolin player, Christian Ward,” he continues. “There’s no bigger fan of Del or the Travelin’ McCourys than me. This will be the first time since I was 18 years old that I’ll be able to sit out in the audience and watch his show. I can’t wait!”
It was also with McCoury where Cleveland, then 13, first met Carter back in the early ’90s during one of Carter’s (then 19) first gigs with him.
“[The Del McCoury Band] has always had the players that I aspire to be like,” says Cleveland. “I remember going to and recording the band’s shows from the soundboard when Jason was just starting out with them. Then I’d go home and try to play guitar over the recordings to best imitate each part. They quickly became some of my biggest influences in this music, and still are.”
Ahead of the album’s release, BGS spoke with Carter & Cleveland over the phone to discuss the duo’s years-long partnership, the process of bringing this record to life, and their thoughts on the history of duo records in bluegrass music.
You have tunes from Del McCoury, Darrell Scott, John Hartford, Bill Monroe, Buck Owens and other roots music legends on this project, but no originals. What was behind that decision?
Jason Carter: Well, for me, I didn’t have any original tunes at the time we started doing this, so I just started throwing out songs I liked. Then I called some songwriters – Tim O’Brien, Terry Herd, Darrell Scott, and others – and the songs I liked most of what they sent I then played for Mike. I’ve only written one fiddle tune so far, but actually have four or five writing sessions lined up this week, so maybe if there’s a Carter & Cleveland Volume II, I could have a cut on there.
Michael Cleveland: We’ve talked about needing to sit down and write together, it just hasn’t come to fruition yet. When I’ve sat in with Del or Jason in the past we never had time to rehearse, which is similar to how these songs came together. We were able to talk about material and send things back and forth, but we didn’t have much time to sit down and rehearse before recording because we’re both so busy. I hope we get to do that someday, but at the same time songwriting isn’t the main focus for me. I know folks that’ll write a tune every day, but for me that only happens once in a while; when it does I make sure to run with it.
What are some standout songs for y’all on this project?
JC: That’s tough, because I like all the songs on the record. At any given time I could have a different favorite. There’s also some that didn’t make the record we still have in the can and might put out later that could actually be my favorite songs. That being said, I really like the part of “With a Vamp in the Middle” where [Mike] finger picks the fiddle while I’m strumming…
MC: That was your idea!
JC: I heard you play something that sparked that. [Laughs] When you’re in the room as a fiddle player and you hear Michael Cleveland play, it’s all special. He [is] leagues above everyone else.
MC: It’s hardly ever a problem that you have too many good songs, but that was definitely the case when we went in to record. As soon as we put the word out about it we had a bunch of our musical heroes sending us songs to record and they were all great! When I first heard the demo of “Give It Away” from Tim O’Brien I liked the song immediately. Tim was playing old-time banjo on it in the key of D while singing, but once I heard Jason sing it in the key of B I knew it was meant to be a hard-driving bluegrass song.
I also really enjoy “Kern County Breakdown.” The only time I’d ever heard that – which made me want to record it – was from Alison Krauss. She used to play it as a fiddle instrumental and I always wish she recorded it. I don’t know if it’ll happen, but I’m still holding out hope that she’ll put out a fiddle album one day.
She does have her first album in 10 years dropping later this month, so you never know!
Throughout the history of bluegrass music there have been many timeless duo records from the likes of Ralph Stanley & Jimmy Martin to Ricky Skaggs & Tony Rice to Bill Monroe & Doc Watson. What are your thoughts on being the next chapter in that series of collaborations?
JC: I hadn’t really thought of it like that before…
MC: If this album is mentioned in the same breath as any of those, that would be great! We also talk a lot about our favorite twin fiddle albums, which this seems to be more of, and have tossed around the idea of doing this project for 15 years. There’s albums from Kenny Baker and Bobby Hicks, Buddy Spicher and Benny Martin, Buddy and Vassar Clements, and so many more, but there hasn’t been one for a long time now. That’s what originally inspired us to do this. In the last few years people have also finally figured out what a great singer Jason is, which afforded us a lot more room to experiment than if it were a twin fiddle instrumental album.
JC: Mike just has such a good ear. I remember sending him a couple versions of demos I played and sang on and he’d immediately get back to me with suggestions like adding a fiddle lick at the beginning, like on “Outrun The Rain.” He thought it would be great for a high harmony thing two above the lead. As soon as he heard this stuff he had ideas. It was really cool to see how that all came together.
Mike just mentioned the idea for this album has been floating around for 15 years. When did y’all eventually get to work on it?
JC: We started recording a couple years ago. The first session we recorded we actually did at [guitarist] Cody Kilby’s house during COVID, then it was another year or so after that until we got working on it again. Because we didn’t have any rehearsal time, I remember sending voice memos of myself playing fiddle, guitar, and/or singing to Mike to listen to and send suggestions back. I remember being at a show with Del tucked away in the dressing room by myself trying to record versions of these songs or trying to run through an arrangement before sending it to Mike through text message.
MC: I had a great run with the label I was previously involved with, Compass Records, but they weren’t really interested in collaboration albums. With all of my projects and Jason as busy as he is, we were always just in the middle of other things until Jason put out [2022’s Lowdown Hoedown] and I completed [2023’s Lovin’ Of The Game]. It was around that time we decided to take the leap and finally start working on this.
Speaking of taking a leap, I know y’all co-produced this record too. What was your motivation behind that?
MC: We had talked about bringing somebody in. I’ve worked with Jeff White for years on my albums. In a way he helped to produce this one too, which is fitting because I always felt like we co-produced my albums together. For this record there were people we’d send stuff to listen to, even down to the final mixes, just because we respect their opinions, but the final calls were all us.
JC: Even when you’ve got someone like Bryan Sutton in the studio for tracking, he may have an idea he throws out that becomes a big help as well. That could come from anyone involved in the session, even engineer Sean Sullivan, who we leaned on heavily as well because they do this every day. These people are here for a good reason, because they’re super talented and play some of our favorite music. And when it comes to Cleve, I’m all ears. He always has good advice.
MC: When you first start recording, you don’t always know what sounds good. It’s like with playing, singing, or anything else, the more you put yourself in those situations the more you understand what you want to hear and how to achieve it. Working with Jeff in the past, we’d be together during the day when all of the sudden he’d say, “Hey Mike, I gotta take off for a few hours, produce for a while.” It freaked me out the first time he did that, but it forced me to get comfortable in the situation and forced me to trust my ear more. Jeff having that faith in me also gave me a little more confidence in myself that I was making the correct decisions and to continue trusting my instincts.
JC: With the Travelin’ McCourys, all of those records were produced by the band along with most of the stuff we did with Del, too. I did produce my solo record, Lowdown Hoedown, though. But even on that, when we were recording Sam [Bush] and Jerry Douglas were there. I remember Jerry – who produced a lot of the McCourys’ stuff early on – always had great ideas on arrangements and different things to put in when he spoke up, which was a huge help. Getting to be in the studio with him is an education you can’t get anywhere else.
Jason, you briefly spoke of a few of the album’s players there. But they’re far from the only top-notch pickers you have on this record, with the likes of Vince Gill, Charlie Worsham, and Sierra Hull, among others. How’d y’all go about deciding who to bring into the fold?
JC: We just tried to think of who would best fit with the songs as we listened to demos for each.
MC: It also came down to who was available at certain times. Guys like Bryan Sutton, Cory Walker, and Alan Bartram played on most of it. I remember days where Sam Bush was available on mandolin and others where Harry Clark filled in. Some of the first sessions we did after the pandemic were with Cody Kilby and Casey Campbell followed by David Grier and Dominick [Leslie].
And going back to something Jason said earlier, I also leaned on Bryan a lot, specifically about what songs he thought it would be good to have Sam on, which led to his inclusion on “Middle of Middle Tennessee” and a few others.
What has music, specifically the process of bringing this record to life, taught you about yourselves?
MC: This was one of the first things I’ve done without a producer being there. Most of the time we would agree on decisions, but other times you don’t know what the right thing is and somebody has to make the call, because that’s typically something a producer would do. When it’s just you there’s no question, but when you’re working with somebody you want to make sure it’s a collaboration and not one person running the ship. Recording this album has taught me to be more aware of that.
JC: The singing part of this too, that’s still pretty new to me. I’ve sung on other people’s records, my solo album and with the Travelin’ McCourys, but being the lead singer throughout is a new venture for me and something I really enjoyed getting to do with Michael.
What do the two of you appreciate most about one another as both musicians and people?
JC: Everything about Mike’s playing, he’s just on another planet right now, and as a person he’s the same way. I recently got married and Mike was my best man, because no matter what he does he is the best man!
MC: Hearing Jason play with Del, he’s always been the fiddler I’ve wanted to be. We’re both into the same stuff, which is why I think we work together so well. It’s why we’re able to jump on stage and play twin fiddles without rehearsing, which is usually a mess when you do that. Getting to work with him on this album has been a dream come true for me.
Photo Credit: Lead image by Sam Wiseman. Square image by Emma McCoury.
A quarter century removed from his passing, John Hartford’s music and overarching legacy may have a stronger hold on bluegrass and American roots music than ever before.
From modern-day stars like Billy Strings and Sam Bush playing his songs in front of thousands each night, to popping up in books, old-time jams, workshops, films, and other functions, Hartford’s songs are officially a part of the Americana zeitgeist.
This trend continues on Julia Belle: The John Hartford Fiddle Tune Project Volume 2. Released February 28, the follow-up to 2020’s inaugural installment of the Fiddle Tune Project features another 17 songs from the always grinnin’, GRAMMY award-winning, steamboat-loving singer – this time performed entirely by women. Nearly 50 artists, musicians, and singers feature throughout, ranging from Rachel Baiman, Phoebe Hunt, Ginger Boatwright, Brittany Haas, and Deanie Richardson, to Allison de Groot, Della Mae, The Price Sisters, Uncle Earl, Kathy Mattea, Alison Brown, and Sierra Hull.
According to Julia Belle co-producer Megan Lynch Chowning (who was joined in that role by Sharon Gilchrist and Katie Harford Hogue, John’s daughter), once the decision was made to move forward with an all-women cast it came time to narrow down who to include on it–something that was as much of a dilemma as it was “an incredibly cool revelation.”
“We decided about halfway through to just make it a reality rather than a selling point,” she jokes. “It’s in the same spirit of whenever you open up a record from the Bluegrass Album Band, nobody says, ‘Wow, what a great all-male band that is!'”
Ahead of Julia Belle‘s release, Harford Hogue, Lynch Chowning, and Gilchrist spoke with BGS about their involvement in the project, preserving John Hartford’s legacy, and favorite moments from recording.
(Editor’s Note: Thefollowingare three separate conversations combined into one and edited for brevity.)
Nearly 50 artists are involved in Julia Belle. How did you go about deciding who to include on the project and which songs they’d play on?
Sharon Gilchrist: It was really important for us to have a multi-generational presence on this record. One of Katie’s personal wishes for the album was that every artist on the record have some personal connection to Hartford. With it being an all-female record, I was also curious to find women who had actually worked with or had some kind of rapport with him. For example, Laurie Lewis, Kathy Kallick, and Suzy Thompson are all on “Champagne Blues” and were all peers of Hartford’s back in the day. Ginger Boatwright actually inspired the song that John wrote which she sings on, “Learning to Smile All Over Again.”
In addition to the sheer number of people involved, I love how you also really allowed them to lean into their own creative tendencies while at the same time staying true to the style and spirit of John Hartford.
Katie Harford Hogue: Since Volume I the whole premise of this album series has been to choose artists that play this vein of music or consider my dad a mentor or someone they look up to. We hand them the book [John Hartford’s Mammoth Collection of Fiddle Tunes] and tell them to choose the tunes that speak to you, then come to the studio and put them through your filter.
For me to tell an artist how to do art – why would I do that? The whole point of being an artist is that you’re putting yourself into it and are using your own expressions, your own metaphors, and your own way of relating to the music. So we wanted their expression in it and the really cool thing is that Dad comes through no matter what we do. His DNA is in these tunes and there’s no way to get them out, not that we would ever want to. Having people come in and just go for it was risky, but an incredibly fun way to make an album.
Megan Lynch Chowning: A lot of the tones, audio, and overall vibe check comes from Sharon, who has been a John Hartford fan her entire musical life and is somebody who is so incredibly in tune with the sounds and feel that comes from his songs. She worked tirelessly listening to everybody’s work before they came in to record to get an idea of what’s going to help each person be the best possible version of themselves while they’re here.
Then there’s the issue of none of these songs – at least the fiddle tunes – having any chords assigned to them. When John wrote them there were no chord progressions, so every artist had to write their own. That in itself was a big part of people getting to take each song in their own directions. It was amazing to watch over and over again, and Sharon handled it all like an absolute rock star.
While some people’s legacy fades over time, it seems like John Hartford’s only grows stronger. What are your thoughts on that and how this project aims to further propel that legacy forward?
KHH: I’ve heard it said before that the way he communicated wasn’t limited to a particular generation. I don’t know if it was the way he thought about things or if some of the ways he did things were more universal. … You can go back to the masters of music and art – da Vinci, Bach – and their methods of creativity are still very valid now, they simply don’t go out of style.
When you hone into the foundation of it the relevancy goes with it, because everyone’s just going back to what’s real, which is what I think my dad also did. He was very true to the way he made music and the way he thought. A lot of people trying to make a career might stop and think, “What does the public want?” or “What do the masses want and how can I provide for them?” There’s nothing wrong with that, but there is another way to do it, making the music you want to make and not worrying whether or not it’s commercially viable.
That being said, “Gentle On My Mind” [Hartford’s most successful song, written in 1966] was very helpful in allowing him to do that full-time. Most everyone else has to get a full-time job and do the music on the side to stay true to themselves, but he got the best of both worlds in that way. He was able to take the success of that song and then go do his art with his heart and soul in it. I mean, who else writes about steamboats? Who else would write about the things that he wrote about and try the things he did on stage or just go out on a limb? And it all worked! In a way, everything aligned for him. That’s why I think he continues to be so relevant – he took a big risk and it paid off.
MLC: In the very first meeting the three of us had to discuss Volume II, preserving and carrying on the Hartford legacy was the focus of what we were trying to accomplish. On any given day you’ve got Billy Strings and Sam Bush playing John Hartford songs in their live shows. The biggest takeaway I have from this whole thing is John Hartford’s unceasing dedication to learning. He started transcribing and learned to write standard notation after he was diagnosed with cancer and instead of saying, “Oh no, I’m sick and this is going to slow me down,” he took it as a sign to move forward and learn a bunch of new things. That’s what led to him becoming obsessed with the fiddle, traditional styles and all that. That to me is the whole message behind these albums, that there’s so much more to do and so much more to write, play and learn. That’s been the most inspiring thing about being a part of this project.
SG: He was both a student and innovator of traditional music who forged his way forward by not sounding anything like anybody else. John is one of the largest beacons shining the way forward on how you do that.
What were your favorite moments from recording these songs? I personally can’t get enough of “Spirit of the South.”
KHH: What was so fun for me about these sessions was that even in rehearsals everyone was shredding. Upon walking in the room you’re hit with this energy and you just want to jump in. It was so exciting talking with everyone and feeling their joy around each song. Then there were the stories from Ginger Boatwright and Kathy Chiavola – both good friends of my dad – and Alison Brown telling me about his influence over her on the banjo.
Not being a musician, that all fed me, because that was a part of my dad’s life that I wasn’t necessarily connected with very much when he was alive. But now I can hear his music and I can see what he was doing and it just has a whole different impact on me. I’ve now had my own kids, raised them, done some things, and can relate more to what he was doing, so every time someone comes back to the studio and records a song, tells a story or talks about his influence, it feel like there’s a drawing of Dad and everyone’s going in and adding details that I hadn’t known about before or that just flesh out the picture that little bit more.
MLC: One favorite was getting Katie’s mom and John’s first wife, Betty, to sing on “No End of Love,” which is a song that John wrote for her. She is an incredible musician who first met John when they were both up for a radio show slot in the St. Louis area. After they got married Betty put her singing career on hold to manage the family, so being able to get her in the studio to sing that song with Katie and her granddaughter Natalie [Hogue] on guitar and hearing her voice – which has been on hold for a long time as she lives other aspects of her life – gave me chills. To me, stuff like that is the essence of folk music and why we do what we do in terms of keeping these songs and traditions alive.
Megan, didn’t you play John’s Tambovsky & Krutz violin on “No End 0f Love”? What was that experience like?
MLC: I actually have John’s fiddle here at my house and play it in the John Hartford Fiddle Tune Project live show, so I’ve been handling it for a while now. Talk about chills – it’s the fiddle he used the last five or so years of his life. It was his main fiddle for the “Down From the Mountain” shows and The Speed of the Old Long Bow record. It’s actually the fiddle on the cover of that album. Katie called me last year out of the blue and said she was moving houses and had taken the fiddle from one closet to another before questioning why it was there in the first place and not in my hands being played at these shows.
To play it on [“No End of Love”] was funny, because it sounds a lot different than my fiddle even though both were set up by the same person. It always felt comfortable to play, but the first few months I had it it was kind of dead from sitting in a closet for two decades. Since I’ve been playing it regularly it’s really come to life. Just the metaphorical part of this fiddle coming to life at the same moment these tunes are being brought into the world is special. It’s how I believe everybody who has the opportunity to be involved in traditional music should be thinking about it. We should constantly be honoring the stuff that came before us while also bringing it into new spaces.
Katie, you mentioned not being too connected to your father’s music when he was still alive, but what do you remember most about those times?
KHH: People saw his stage persona when he was out, but even when he was home he was still playing. He didn’t go home and just say, “Oh, I’m tired of that.” He played some more. “Obsessive” is not too strong a word to use when it came to the way his brain worked about music or art. It would be Thanksgiving or Christmas and he’d be working out melodies in the living room with Benny Martin simply because they enjoyed it.
Later on, my wedding reception was held at my dad’s house and we had originally set up music on a sound system so as not to burden him, but he, my brother, and my uncle ended up all grabbing their instruments and playing as a trio for it. He wasn’t a musician because he was trying to be famous; he was a musician because he couldn’t not be one. As much as his right hand was a part of him, his fiddle and his banjo were a part of him too.
What has working on TheJohn Hartford Fiddle Tune Project taught you about yourself?
MLC: These experiences have taught me that I’m capable at parts of this job that I previously shied away from. I grew up as a contest fiddler; that was my background. Because of that I was very good at learning specific arrangements of things and then executing them with precision. While that’s all great and fine – one: it’s not a very good living, and two: it’s not all that great for having a very broad musical vision or sense of yourself. That’s why I started playing bluegrass and working for country artists. My skills and musicianship both expanded, but working on these albums – both as a player on Volume I and as a producer/player on Volume II – I’ve learned much more about my internal ability to hear things I didn’t know that I could hear and to make decisions I didn’t know I could make.
It reminds me of this exercise that John Hartford used to do with people at his jams or in his band – called the “window exercise” – where everybody who’s playing has to do something different than everybody else and then has to change that thing every eight bars. If you’ve got five or six people sitting around in a circle, one person can be chopping, one person can be playing longbows, melody, harmony, shuffle pattern… but only for eight bars. It requires you to not only come up with new things, but also be aware of what everyone else is doing simultaneously.
It was a musical brain exercise he invented that we teach at our workshops and sometimes even at the live show. To me, working on these albums has been like a real-life window exercise. It feels like even from beyond the grave John Hartford is challenging me to go bigger, be more creative, and more aware all the time. He’s just expanded who I am as a musician and what I now know that I’m capable of that I didn’t know I was capable of before. It’s weird to be grateful to someone who’s been dead for 25 years, but that’s how I feel because I’m a different person and a different player than I was before I started this.
SG: It showed me the importance of being hands-off with other people’s musicianship and to give them every opportunity to bring as much of themselves to any project as possible. That’s when you’re going to get the best music out of somebody. This project was a lesson in learning to do that, but also knowing when to jump in and direct or provide guidance when necessary.
Katie did a great job of that as well. This whole project is her brainchild and was a huge undertaking and the coolest part is the way she’s doing it. She’s doing it just like her dad. He would be so honored and pleased to see her fostering that in his own tunes and giving others the opportunity to share in and carry on that tradition.
KHH: I was a stay-at-home mom when my kids were born and poured a lot into them growing up, but once my youngest got to high school I began backing off and looking to do some of the things I’d been putting off. Coincidentally, the fiddle tune project was coming to fruition around the same time.
It was like walking out on a limb – especially as an older woman – to go out and start on some of these things not having been in the industry or corporate world in quite a while, but I did it. I have learned so much about not just the music industry, but things like how to use computer software like Photoshop and Illustrator and doing video for social media. It’s a lot of fun and something I’m very proud to be able to say that I did. I want to encourage other women to do the same. Don’t worry about what other people are saying, what you’ve done before, how old you are or what stage of life you’re in – don’t let anyone devalue your experience. If you’ve got an idea, go do it!
Happy Friday! We’ve got another excellent premiere round-up for you to finish out your week with a roots music high note.
Check out brand new tracks like “Heartless” from singer-songwriter Dustin Brown. It’s a song about finding redemption in self-doubt in an alt-country meets Americana package. Plus, North Carolina bluegrass outfit Unspoken Tradition pay tribute to Acoustic Syndicate and Steve McMurry with their new cover of “Katie and Burl.”
Just in time for Valentine’s Day next week, Nick Taylor debuts his video for “Lover’s Dream,” a lovely number built around tender fingerpicking that came to Taylor in the middle of the pitch-dark night. We’ve also got a honky-tonkin’ music video from Portland, Oregon’s Ashleigh Flynn & the Riveters. Their new track, “Drunk in Ojai,” retells a story of too much tequila and an unlikely guardian angel named Dutch.
You won’t want to miss “With a Vamp In the Middle,” a brand new single from Jason Carter & Michael Cleveland from their just announced debut duo album (due in March) that premiered on BGS earlier this week.
It’s all right here on BGS. Scroll now to find all these songs and more, because You Gotta Hear This!
Dustin Brown, “Heartless”
Artist:Dustin Brown Hometown: Moody, Texas Song: “Heartless” Album:Dustin Brown Release Date: March 28, 2025 (album)
In Their Words: “Everyone comes into this life clean, unmarked, and full of love. Unfortunately, on the other end, some come out dirty, marred, and heartless. This song comes from a place of resolve, in accepting that at times you must be a little crazy especially when dealing with folks that suffer from a heartless nature. I suppose it’s a redemption song about self-doubt and how powerful of a driving force that can be in life and love.” – Dustin Brown
Track Credits: Dustin Brown – Lead vocal, songwriting, guitar Rachel Cole – Backing vocals Joel Allan – Lead guitar Christopher Smith – Drums James Bartosh – Bass
Carter & Cleveland, “With a Vamp In the Middle” (Live at the Grand Ole Opry)
Artist:Jason Carter & Michael Cleveland Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee and Charlestown, Indiana Song: “With A Vamp In The Middle” Album:Carter & Cleveland Release Date: February 5, 2025 (single); March 14, 2025 (album) Label: Fiddle Man Records
In Their Words: “This song has always felt like a national anthem for fiddle players and it’s our tribute to the legendary John Hartford and Vassar Clements. It’s long been a favorite for Michael and me to jam on – perfect for twin fiddles and a blast to improvise and trade licks on. Having Darrell Scott’s harmony vocals on [the studio version of] this track was an absolute honor, and his contribution took it to another level. I hope y’all enjoy it!” – Jason Carter
Artist:Ashleigh Flynn & The Riveters Hometown: Portland, Oregon Song: “Drunk in Ojai” Album:Good Morning Sunshine Release Date: April 4, 2025 (album) Label: Blackbird Record Label
In Their Words: “This song wrote itself – it’s a true story! Nearly a decade ago, I crashed Nancy’s (record producer) wedding with our mutual friend who had introduced me to her. I had played a solo gig the night before at the Deer Lodge in Ojai. After the show, the owner at the time was losing his mind (in a good way) because the entire cast of Mad Men had just shown up for dinner – likely to celebrate the show wrap. He came up to my friend and me, and invited us to the bar, as we all marveled at ‘Don Draper and Co.’ filing into the back banquet room.
“The owner proceeded to offer us a taste of nearly every tequila at the bar after which he pointed us toward the late-night hang, ‘The Cantina,’ where, for better or worse, we continued to imbibe tequila. As the night wound down, we opted not to drive ourselves back to the hotel, because we were clearly too tipsy. We asked the Cantina bartender for taxi suggestions and she handed us a card that simply said ‘Dutch’ and included a number… We called the number, and minutes later an off-white Bronco with ‘Ojai Fire and Rescue’ painted in red across the doors pulled up. ‘You gals called for a ride?’
“When I got to the wedding the next day, a friend there asked, ‘So what did you do last night?’ I said, ‘I got drunk in Ojai. I didn’t know where I was. Caught a ride from the fire and rescue; the driver’s name was Dutch.’ That friend literally sang that line back to me and that was that – took five minutes to finish it as soon as I got my hands on a guitar. The band adds, ‘We are grateful to Dutch for getting us home safely.'” – Ashleigh Flynn
Track Credits: Ashleigh Flynn – Lead vocal, acoustic guitar Nancy Luca – Electric guitar Carmen Paradise – Bass Leila Chieko – Drums Kat Fountain – Harmonica Kathryn Claire – Harmony vocals, violin Jenny Conlee – Piano, organ
Video Credits: Art direction, animation by Lupo Studio. Videography, editing by Polly Lisicak, Cai Indermaur. Special thanks to the staff of Laurelthirst Pub and Music Portland/EchoFund.
Nick Taylor, “Lover’s Dream”
Artist:Nick Taylor Hometown: Austin, Texas Song: “Lover’s Dream” Release Date: February 14, 2025
In Their Words: “I wrote ‘Lover’s Dream’ in the early days of a relationship. I was living in a first-floor apartment that was basically a cave and came home one night with a song in my head. I sat down in the dark and played the song all the way through without stopping. When I woke up in the morning I realized I hadn’t written any of it down, so I got to work trying to reconstruct what I could remember. I still have no idea what how similar this version is to what I played that night, but I have been waiting a long time to release it out into the world as a single.
“We recorded this one in Nashville, just me and my guitar in the studio with Bryce, the recording engineer. We set up in the middle of the biggest room and it felt just like the first time I played it, quiet and still. The song is mostly stream of consciousness, reflecting on my own faults while declaring a true and lasting love – which is any lover’s dream I think, to be accepted and loved with all their imperfections.” – Nick Taylor
Video Credits: Produced by Charlotte Avenue Entertainment. Shot by Dominick Sotis and Hayden Westberry. Color Grading by Color Sync Visuals.
Unspoken Tradition, “Katie and Burl”
Artist:Unspoken Tradition Hometown: Cherryville, North Carolina Song: “Katie and Burl” Release Date: February 7, 2025 Label: Mountain Home Music Company
In Their Words: “When I was a kid, probably 11 or 12 years old, there was a local music venue called Leatherwoods in Shelby, North Carolina. It was in the back of this old comic book store and there was a door in the back that opened into a listening room. Acoustic Syndicate used to play there all the time. My dad knew the McMurry boys and fished with Steve some when I was a kid, so we went to Leatherwoods every time they played there. Steve wrote ‘Katie and Burl’ for their first album and this was about the time I got my first guitar. I learned several songs on that album and ‘Katie and Burl’ was one of them. I was so honored that Steve was willing to come sing a verse on our version of his own song!
“I’ve always been drawn to songs that have a sweet but sorrowful sense of loss. It’s a song about two young people against the world, experiencing joy and sadness along the way. Symbolically, Burl the farmer returns ‘to the earth where he came from’ and today he wouldn’t understand the farm he once owned as it’s been repurposed for modern men. In fact, when I wrote ‘Land‘ back in 2016, the themes of ‘Katie and Burl’ served as inspiration: that our existence here is both meaningful and insignificant in the grand scheme of things.” – Audie McGinnis
Track Credits: Audie McGinnis – Acoustic, lead vocals; Steve McMurry – Guest vocals Sav Sankaran – Bass, vocals Tim Gardner – Fiddle Zane McGinnis – Banjo Ty Gilpin – Mandolin
Photo Credit: Ashleigh Flynn by Christine Lupo; Jason Carter & Michael Cleveland by Sam Wiseman.
(Editor’s Note: Today, award winning fiddlers Jason Carter and Michael Cleveland announce their upcoming debut duo album, Carter & Cleveland, out March 14. To celebrate the announcement and the project’s lead single, we’re premiering a special live performance of the track, “With A Vamp In The Middle,” from the fabled stage of the Grand Ole Opry.)
Artist:Jason Carter & Michael Cleveland Hometown: Nashville, Tennessee and Charlestown, Indiana Song: “With A Vamp In The Middle” Album:Carter & Cleveland Release Date: February 5, 2025 (single); March 14, 2025 (album) Label: Fiddle Man Records
In Their Words: “This song has always felt like a national anthem for fiddle players and it’s our tribute to the legendary John Hartford and Vassar Clements. It’s long been a favorite for Michael and me to jam on – perfect for twin fiddles and a blast to improvise and trade licks on. Having Darrell Scott’s harmony vocals on [the studio version of] this track was an absolute honor, and his contribution took it to another level. I hope y’all enjoy it!” – Jason Carter
Credits: Jason Carter – Fiddle, vocals Michael Cleveland – Fiddle Alan Bartram – Bass, harmony vocals Cory Walker – Banjo Bryan Sutton – Guitar Harry Clark – Mandolin
On January 9, 2025, there will be a special performance – more so a once-in-a-lifetime celebration – of the groundbreaking music of Old & In the Way at Nashville’s famed Ryman Auditorium.
Led by the “Bluegrass Buddha” himself, Peter Rowan, the legendary singer-songwriter and founding member of the group will be backed by the Sam Grisman Project. The gathering will also feature a murderers’ row of talent: Sam Bush, Tim O’Brien, Lindsay Lou, Ronnie & Rob McCoury, and more.
“In bluegrass, you just do the beautiful grace of presenting the music, being good neighbors and all that stuff,” Rowan told BGS in an exclusive 2022 interview. “But you could hear us in the band going, ‘go, man, go.’ Go for it, that’s where we came from. That’s what Old & In the Way was – the ‘go for it’ signal to everybody.”
To preface, Old & In the Way started as impromptu pickin’-n-grinnin’ sessions in the early 1970s between Rowan, his longtime friend, mandolin guru David Grisman, and Jerry Garcia, iconic guitarist for the Grateful Dead, who reached for his trusty banjo during the gatherings at Garcia’s home in Stinson Beach, California.
“We started picking every night after supper [at Jerry’s],” Rowan remembers. “We went through old song books and learned a bunch of material.”
At the time, Garcia was searching for new avenues of creative exploration, seeing as the Dead were in the midst of taking a much-needed hiatus after years of relentless touring and recording. He was also, perhaps subconsciously, trying to tap back into his roots before the Dead, this landscape of the late 1950s/early 1960s where Garcia was heavily involved in the San Francisco Bay Area folk scene.
“And you realized that Jerry was an intergalactic traveler, just dropping in on the Earth scene for a little while, but he was totally at home,” Rowan says of Garcia’s restless penchant and lifelong thirst for acoustic music.
When Old & In the Way formed in 1973, the trio recruited bassist John Kahn, as well as a revolving cast of fiddlers (Richard Greene, John Hartford, Vassar Clements). Sporadic gigs were booked around the Bay Area, with the vibe of the whole affair casual in nature – the ethos one of camaraderie and collaboration, but without expectations or boundaries.
“I remember singing the ending of ‘Land of the Navajo’ at the first rehearsal and I looked over at Jerry,” Rowan recalls. “He kept nodding his head like, ‘go.’ It was like Jack Kerouac at Allen Ginsberg’s poetry reading at City Lights Bookstore – ‘go, man, go.’ Encouragement, encouragement.”
By 1974, Old & In the Way simply vanished into the cosmic ether, but not before capturing a handful of live performances that have become melodic sacred texts of a crucial crossroads for acoustic music. To note, Old & In the Way’s 1975 self-titled debut album went on to become the bestselling bluegrass album of all-time – until it was dethroned by the O Brother, Where Art Thou? soundtrack released in 2000.
As it stands today, Rowan, now 82 years old, is the only remaining member of Old & In the Way still actively performing. Garcia, Clements, Kahn, and Hartford have all sadly passed on, with the elder Grisman and Greene retired from touring. Grisman’s son, standup bassist Sam Grisman, is now carrying his father’s bright torch.
And although the tenure of the Old & In the Way was short-lived, the ripple effects of the band’s ongoing influence and enduring legacy remains as vibrant and vital as it was those many years ago, when a handful of shaggy music freaks kicked off a jam that will perpetuate for eternity.
In preparation for the upcoming Old & In the Way showcase at the Ryman on January 9, BGS recently spoke with Sam Grisman, who talked at-length not only about his continued work with Peter Rowan and the intricacies of Jerry Garcia, but also why a band Grisman’s father started over a half-century ago still captivates the hearts and minds of music lovers the world over.
You were five years old when Jerry Garcia passed away. You were really young, but do you remember anything that you hold onto?
Sam Grisman: Yeah, I have a very vivid memory of what our house felt like, smelled like, and just what the energy was like when Jerry was around. And I remember that sort of ease, just the way that he made people feel. It seemed like my parents were at ease when he was around.
And he probably felt at ease being around them. It was probably a safe haven at that house.
Definitely. And, you know, my parents smoked weed in the house. But, my mom was pretty strict about cigarettes. [She] wouldn’t let anybody smoke cigarettes in the house. But, when Jerry was around, he smoked cigarettes in the house. So, part of this smell in my blurry five-year-old memory is the smell of cigarettes. And Jerry would sometimes wear a leather jacket, maybe the smell of leather.
I remember the sound of his laugh. I remember all that music, and some of it I remember so vividly that I just know that part of that memory is reinforced by being there as a little toddler when they were working up [music]. Because they would often work on tunes upstairs in the living room and then take them down to the studio, put them on the mics and pull them.
You just wanted to be around it all and soak it all in.
I was a really curious kid.
With the Ryman show coming up, there’s been a lot of celebration of Old & In the Way as of late, especially with you touring with Peter Rowan and the current Jerry Garcia exhibit at the Bluegrass Hall of Fame & Museum. You’ve been around those songs your whole life. But, when you think about the context of Old & In the Way, and what you’re doing at the Ryman, what really sticks out with why that was such a special time in not only bluegrass, but in the lives of those people?
I mean, what a lightning-in-the-bottle chapter of all those people’s lives, you know? I think 1973, ’73/’74, was a particularly fertile time for Jerry. He was playing a full schedule with the Dead. He had Jerry Garcia Band stuff. He was playing in Old & In the Way. He was playing pedal steel with the New Riders of the Purple Sage. It seemed like he really had an itch to go back to where his roots were, especially when you look at [the Grateful Dead album] Workingman’s Dead [that was released a] couple years prior.
For all of us, who are looking back on it 50 years in the future, it seems like this momentous, heady time that was just meant to be. But, for those guys in the moment, it was just total serendipity. And the quintessence of just going with the flow – Stinson Beach, California, vibes. They just kind of stumbled into this reality.
“Y’all wanna play?” “Sure, why not.”
Yeah, where it would just be really fun to have this bluegrass band that they didn’t take super seriously, which I think really comes across in the recordings, you know? Because there’s all this joy in that music that might not necessarily have been there if those guys were taking it super seriously or if they needed it to pay their bills. It was a very interesting circumstance.
And for them to call their hero Vassar Clements into the mix, on a sort of whim because Peter found his number on a card in his wallet. It was sort of like a fantasy camp for these guys. Like a bunch of hippies sitting around on the beach, smoking a joint, thinking: “Wouldn’t it be great if we had the world’s greatest fiddle player just show up?” “I bet you we could book a gig.” “Hey Jerry, you got these legions of people following you around, you could probably get us a gig, right?”
And that’s kind of how it happened. Those gigs were so magical, because they happened mostly for all of these Deadheads in Marin [County, California], for like 16 months or something.
So, if you really had your finger on the pulse of it and you were going to the Keystone [music club in Berkeley, California], to see [the Jerry Garcia Band] and you loved what the Dead were doing, you knew that they were going to take this time off, but you just saw Jerry the week before and he never took his guitar off. He just finished the [Jerry Garcia Band] set and walked backstage with his guitar on and was smoking a cigarette, and then you saw him 30 minutes later talking to somebody off the side of stage, still had his guitar on — you’re thinking, “Gee, this guy’s not going to stop playing music this year, so I better keep my eyes peeled for what’s next.” And they played all these little gigs mostly around the Bay Area — they kind of captured some lightning in a bottle.
With playing these Old & In the Way melodies not only throughout your life, but also extensively nowadays with Peter Rowan, what’s been your biggest takeaway on what makes those songs and the ethos/history behind them so special to you? What about in terms of musicality, technique, and approach?
It’s hard to articulate how special it is to be exploring these beloved songs that mean so much to so many folks, myself included, with Peter and a cast of some of my best friends and favorite musicians. It’s a catalog that’s got a lot of depth.
Old & In the Way would play anything from songs by bluegrass heroes like Bill Monroe, The Stanley Brothers, Reno & Smiley, and Jim & Jesse to Vassar [Clements], Jerry [Garcia], and my pop’s instrumentals, to the tunes that Peter was writing at the time, which are some of my absolute favorite songs ever written.
Songs like “Midnight Moonlight,” “High Lonesome Sound,” and “Panama Red.” Playing these tunes with Uncle Peter makes me feel connected to the times he spent with David and Jerry in Stinson Beach in the early ’70s.
I grew up in Mill Valley and loved going to Stinson Beach with my friends, so I have a pretty vivid image in my mind’s eye. They played tunes, hung out, relaxed, took in the sea breeze, smoked a bunch of great weed, and developed a highly individuated “West Coast” approach to playing and singing this bluegrass music that they all loved and respected so much.
And then, they called one of my bass heroes, John Kahn, and their fiddle hero, the inimitable Vassar Clements and gave the world about one glorious year – I think around 50 shows – of a rare and lovable breed of bluegrass.
So much of everyone’s personality comes through in the music, and you can hear their camaraderie in the recordings. I guess my biggest take away from getting to play this music with Peter is how important it is to bring your own approach to these timeless songs that we love, while still honoring what it is that makes us love them in the first place.
You’ve known Peter Rowan since you were born. But, what has this latest endeavor together meant to you, to play the Old & In the Way catalog to not only lifelong fans, but also a whole new generation of acoustic music fans and bluegrass freaks?
It means the world to me to get to spend some time out on the road sharing space and time in service of this music with Uncle Peter. Getting to meet all of these folks who care so much about this music and feeling their appreciation and gratitude for Pete has been truly special.
There are so many people from so many different ages and different walks of life for whom this music has been the soundtrack to many fond memories, and I’m honored to be one of them. It’s also been a joy to see fresh faces in the audience and some folks taking in this music with a new perspective.
In your honest opinion, what is the legacy of Old & In the Way when you place it through the prism of the history of bluegrass and the road to the here and now, especially this current juncture where the torchbearers are selling out arenas and creating this high-water mark for acoustic, traditional and bluegrass music?
For many folks who know and love the music of Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead, Old & In the Way has been their first exposure to bluegrass. So many people over the years have told me how listening to Old & In the Way led them to further explore bluegrass music and its roots and branches. And others have told me how it inspired them to become pickers and start bands of their own.
I think Old & In the Way has been pivotal in bringing a wider audience with a more adventurous musical palette into the bluegrass universe. The legacy of Old & In the Way is one of exploration and preservation, and they certainly paved the way for many of us to walk a similar path — honoring the music that we love, while exploring its boundaries and finding our own voices and approaches.
It’s wonderful to see my friend Billy Strings out there playing for so many folks on such a big scale simply being himself, playing his own songs with a great group of friends, and also honoring the material that made him the musician that he is — maybe that’s a part of the legacy of Old & In the Way.
Photo Credit: Elliot Siff Poster Credit: Taylor Rushing
2024 served up a treasure trove of great music books – too many to encapsulate in a concise way. However, it’s still worth a try! So, here is a look at some notable books (in no particular order) that should hold an appeal to the BGS community. This baker’s dozen hopefully provides a diverse and interesting sampling of what has been published over the past year.
There are biographies of superstars like Joni Mitchell and Dolly Parton alongside important if underappreciated figures, such as guitarist Jesse Ed Davis and the Blind Boys of Alabama. Look into the lives of bluegrass icons Tony Rice and John Hartford led by those that knew them while Joan Baez, Lucinda Williams, and Alice Randall each released memoirs that told their life stories in fascinating ways.
There are books here, too, that examine sub-genres like the world of busking and the outlaw country movement, as well as scenes from the musical history of Greenwich Village and the story of a little-known but significant music project that was part of FDR’s New Deal.
There’s a little something for everyone, whether for your holiday shopping list, your winter break stack of books “to be read,” to use up those bookstore gift cards, or for your 2025 resolution to sit down and read more.
2024 was a big year for Joni Mitchell, with her captivating appearance at the GRAMMY Awards representing another major milestone on her amazing recuperation from her 2015 brain aneurysm. NPR music critic (and occasional BGS contributor) Ann Powers extensively examines the many sides of Joni Mitchell in this stimulating and provocative book. Powers makes it clear from the get-go that she isn’t a biographer and compares her work here to being like a mapmaker. It makes total sense then that Powers entitled the book Traveling. The word not only references Mitchell’s tune “All I Want,” but it also reflects the numerous paths that Mitchell has traveled down during her long, storied career – a journey Powers incisively and insightfully explores over the course of some 400-some pages.
Dolly Parton’s White Limozeen by Steacy Easton (Bloomsbury)
Steacy Easton followed up their Tammy Wynette biography, Why Tammy Matters, by tackling an even larger female country music icon: Dolly Parton. Part of the acclaimed 33 1/3 book series, this compact tome focuses on Parton’s popular 1989 album White Limozeen. Easton views it as a pivotal work for Parton as it represented a triumphant rebound from her roundly disappointing 1987 release, Rainbow. Besides delving into how the Ricky Skaggs-produced White Limozeen found Dolly returning more to her country roots from the more pop-oriented Rainbow, Easton also uses her album as something like a prism to look at Dolly’s wildly successful career and her iconic persona.
Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You: A Memoir by Lucinda Williams (Crown)
Fans of Lucinda Williams’ songs may think they know her through her lyrics, which are often drawn from Lu’s own experiences. Williams’ memoir, however, reveals more about her extraordinary life than even her deeply felt lyrics have expressed. The book is especially strong in covering her quite turbulent childhood involving her father Miller Williams (a poet/professor long in search of tenure) and her mother, Lucille, who suffered from manic depression. Fittingly, Williams prefaces her book by listing the many places where she lived (a dozen before she was 18) which reflects her rootless childhood and set her up for a home in the Americana music pantheon. While the title suggests a racy tell-all, the book feels more like having the great pleasure of listening to Lucinda intimately tell stories from her life – what more could you ask for?
Washita Love Child: The Rise of Indigenous Rock Star Jesse Ed Davis by Douglas K. Miller (Liveright)
Jesse Ed Davis is a name that probably is not familiar to most music fans. Lovers of ’70s rock might recognize his name as a guitarist who worked with the likes of Taj Mahal, Eric Clapton, Neil Diamond, Ringo Starr, John Lennon, and George Harrison (Davis performed at the fabled Concert For Bangladesh). Those who know him from those gigs, however, might not even know that Davis was a rare Native American in the rock ‘n’ roll world. He only really made his Indigenous heritage prominent when he teamed with Native American poet/activist John Trudell during the ’80s in the Graffiti Band. Sadly, Davis’ career was derailed due to alcohol and drug abuse, which also led to his death in 1988 at the age of 48. In this vividly told biography, Douglas K. Miller, a professor of Native American History at Oklahoma State University, turns a spotlight on this ground-breaking and underappreciated musician.
Down On The Corner: Adventures in Busking & Street Music by Cary Baker (Jawbone Press)
For his debut book, longtime publicist and journalist Cary Baker turned to a lifelong music interest of his: street musicians. Early on in this book, he relates the transformative moment when, as a teenager, he was taken by his father to Chicago’s famous Maxwell Street where he saw bluesman Blind Arvella Gray perform on the street. This experience not only led to his first journalism work, but it also launched a love for street music. His enlightening book, which is broadly divided geographically, profiles buskers from across America and Europe. Down On The Corner is populated with colorful characters like Bongo Joe, Tubby Skinny, and Wild Man Fischer along with well-known musicians, such as the Old Crow Medicine Show, Rambling Jack Elliott, Billy Bragg, Fantastic Negrito, and Peter Case, who share tales about playing on the streets.
My own memories of John Hartford are of him playing on Glen Campbell’s TV show. He seemed so cool and laidback – and he could play banjo with lightning-fast virtuosity. Happily, Bob Carlin has more interesting memories about the legendary musician, and he comes to this book from a pretty unique perspective. Carlin first met Hartford when he interviewed him in the mid-1980s for the radio program Fresh Air. Carlin (himself an award-winning banjoist) later performed with Hartford and even became his de facto road manager. In his book, he deftly balances his background as a journalist and position as a longtime friend in telling the story of Hartford, who was a true crossover star bluegrass musician of his time.
Like Bob Carlin with John Hartford, Bill Amatneek has a privileged perspective when it comes to writing about his subject, the late, great Tony Rice. Amatneek, a musician as well as writer, spent several years playing with Rice in the David Grisman Quintet. Rice was one of the best-ever flatpicking guitarists (and a terrific vocalist) whose career was undercut by illnesses and his own personal demons. Amatneek constructed his book as an oral biography, built around stories told to him by fellow musicians who knew Tony, like Sam Bush, Béla Fleck, Peter Rowan, and Jerry Douglas along with Rice family members, allowing readers to discover the bright and dark sides of this bluegrass master.
Talkin’ Greenwich Village: The Heady Rise and Slow Fall of America’s Bohemian Music Capital by David Browne (Hachette Books)
As its title plainly states, Talkin’ Greenwich Village discusses the renowned area of New York City that has been a center for bohemian arts culture for decades. The book can be described as a “biography” of both the people (Dave Van Ronk plays a prominent role throughout this story) and the places (particularly the clubs, such as the Bottom Line, Kenny’s Castaways, Gerde’s Folk City, and the Bitter End) that populated the Village’s music scene from 1957-2004. (Browne here basically concentrates on the West Village.) The author of books on the Grateful Dead, CSN&Y, and Sonic Youth, Browne does a masterful job at bringing this neighborhood to life during its many eras. The Village holds a special place in Browne’s heart; he discovered the neighborhood as an undergrad at NYU just as the new folk scene of the early ’80s was brewing. His passion shines through in his storytelling.
My Black Country: A Journey Through Country Music’s Black Past, Present, and Future By Alice Randall (Simon & Schuster)
You may have already heard about Alice Randall and her book right here, on BGS and Good Country. My Black Country has received great acclaim (NPR listed the book among its “Books We Love” for 2024) and justifiably so. An author, professor, and songwriter, Randall tapped all her talents in creating this inspiring work that addresses her life story and investigates the history of Black country music, which she traces back nearly a hundred years to when DeFord Bailey performed on Nashville’s WSM radio station. It should be noted, too, that this isn’t just a Nashville-centered book; it explores Black country music made all across America. Besides enjoying Randall’s literary creation, you can also enjoy her songwriting craft too; Oh Boy Records released an eponymous compilation of Randall-penned tunes interpreted by such artists as Rhiannon Giddens, Allison Russell, Valerie June, and Leyla McCalla. (Of which, Giddens’ performance of “The Ballad of Sally Anne” is nominated for a GRAMMY for Best American Roots Performance.)
Spirit of the Century: Our Own Story by The Blind Boys of Alabama & Preston Lauterbach (Hachette Books)
The Blind Boys of Alabama are a remarkable story. Remarkable in the sense that the vocal group came into existence around 1940 at the Alabama Institute for the Negro Deaf and Blind and made their way out into the world through the gospel music circuit. And it is remarkable, too, that the Blind Boys of Alabama not only remain a group today (they describe themselves as the “longest running group in American music”), but they have earned five GRAMMYs (and a Lifetime Achievement Award) as well as an NEA National Heritage Fellowship. Preston Lauterbach (author of books like Beale Street Dynasty and The Chitlin’ Circuit) has done an eloquent job weaving together stories from band members and other musical colleagues, and turning them into this absorbing biography.
Willie, Waylon and the Boys: the Ultimate Outlaw Country Primer by Brian Fairbanks (Hachette Books)
This book is something of a biographical combo platter. The first nine chapters concentrate on the “Mount Rushmore” of outlaw country: Willie, Waylon, Johnny, and Kris. Those 240 pages are packed with colorful tales of the foursome, whether on their own or together as the Highwaymen. At that point, the book pivots and explores outlaw country’s legacy in the form of the alternative country scene that was burgeoning during the ’90s, as the Highwaymen were ending their run (their third, final, and least successful album came out in 1995). Fans of alt-country and “new outlaw” artists might wish for a deeper dive into this scene. The chapter on “The New Highwaymen” (built upon the idea of guys like Chris Stapleton, Jason Isbell, Ryan Bingham, and Sturgill Simpson as a new outlaw quartet) feels a bit too speculative. Fairbanks, however, is on stronger footing with his “Highwaywomen” chapter, which looks at the actual supergroup collaboration of the Highwomen, featuring Brandi Carlile, Natalie Hemby, Maren Morris, and Amanda Shires that, among other things, countered the male dominance of the original outlaw movement.
A Chance to Harmonize: How FDR’s Hidden Music Unit Sought to Save America from the Great Depression—One Song at a Time By Sheryl Kaskowitz (Pegasus)
This is a book for history buffs who love music – and vice versa. Author Sheryl Kaskowitz (who previously wrote a book on the history of the song “God Bless America”) has dug up the story on a little-known music unit that was part of the New Deal. This U.S. government program led by Charles Seeger (yes, the father of Pete) sent out musician/agents (noted American ethnomusicologist Sidney Robertson was one prime participant) to gather up folk songs around the country. The goal was to use these songs to build community spirit at homestead communities launched by federal government under the auspices of the Resettlement Administration. The projects were considered radical and controversial back then and, consequently, were very short-lived. Fortunately, however, more than 800 songs were recorded and have been stored away in the Library of Congress.
When You See My Mother, Ask Her to Dance by Joan Baez (David R. Godine)
Joan Baez spent over 60 years making music and touring. While she has basically retired from music, Baez hasn’t put an end to expressing her creativity. In 2023, she released a book of drawings and in 2024, she published this book of poetry. There are at least a couple of notable aspects to this poetry project. Baez has long been known more for being an interpreter of songs rather than a songwriter, so it is intriguing to see more of her writer side expressed in this collection. Also, she has struggled with dissociative identity disorder (AKA multiple personality disorder, a topic addressed in the powerful documentary Joan Baez:I Am A Noise). Baez candidly states in the Author’s Notes that some of the poems are “are heavily influenced by, or in effect written by, some of the inner authors,” adding intriguing layers to her creative process – which she displays through the pieces collected in this book.
2024 is winding down and like any other year, there’s a lot to say goodbye to as we welcome in the future. Memories (the good and bad), loved ones, homes – all seem to eventually become markers in time.
A marker in my ‘24 was the release of my third record, The Never-Ending Years, in October. The theme of time is common throughout (as the title would suggest), and when BGS asked me to put together a playlist in celebration, I considered the many topical songs that have had an impact on me.
There may be some obvious players left out (sorry, Pink Floyd and Jim Croce) but really, these are simply the songs that have meant the most to me, songs I listen to in eternal recurrence, all having something to do with the fact that time moves on – with or without our blessing. – Thomas Cassell
“Where Did the Morning Go?” – Blue Highway
Blue Highway has had an incredible impact on everything I do. They really set a bar with thoughtful, original material in bluegrass music. This song in particular pulls a heartstring, as the every-quickening pace of life only blurs with time.
“Childish Things” – James McMurtry
There’s an innocence that we lose every day and much of our wonder and curiosity tends to disappear with it. But for me, the contentment of looking back brings calmness and comfort for the future. James McMurtry is on my Mount Rushmore of songwriters and this song (I think) is as good as anything he’s ever written.
“Mama’s Hand” – Lynn Morris (written by Hazel Dickens)
Leaving home is tough, as most anyone knows. Inevitable as it is, it can be hard to say goodbye, no matter the opportunity that awaits. Lynn’s music has brought me a lot of comfort in this life.
“Today” – John Hartford
John Hartford’s songwriting certainly doesn’t need my endorsement, but I think his early records are often overlooked. This song was released in 1967, Hartford’s LA era that gave us “Gentle On My Mind,” “No End of Love,” and so many others. There ain’t nothing but today.
“Last Time on the Road” – Nashville Bluegrass Band (written by Carl Jones)
This song found me at the right time. I was getting burnt out from touring and music in general had become a daily commitment that brought little joy. It was nice to know that others felt the same, but also that they were capable of salvaging the good and moving forward making great music – in the NBB’s case, four more great records.
“Needed” – Robbie Fulks
Robbie Fulks has been a favorite for a long time, partly for his unpredictable performance style – check out Revenge! (Live) – but also for his thoughtful lyricism and vulnerable storytelling. This song highlights the latter, and all the reflection and regret that comes with getting older.
“Blackberry Summer” – Dale Ann Bradley
Is it possible to be nostalgic for a childhood you didn’t have? I think so – at least that’s how I feel when I listen to this song. Dale Ann takes me back to all of my childhood summers, as similar or different as they may be.
“Nail” – Ed Snodderly
Ed is a songwriter’s songwriter, and one of the coolest musicians I know. His group The Brother Boys is an all time favorite, but this song from his 2017 solo record really fits the current theme. The nothin’ here leaves no more.
“Don’t You Know I’m From Here” – Brennen Leigh
Prairie Love Letter is one of those records that I downloaded before a flight and then proceeded to listen to three or four times through before landing (still do sometimes). The writing is incredible front to back, but the opening track really hit me hard. I’m from a very small town and every time I go home, I find I have less of a connection to the place – only a growing longing for one. This song of Brennen’s couldn’t articulate that feeling any better.
“Bed by the Window” – James King (written by Marnie Wilson and Rob Crosby)
The Bluegrass Storyteller. I’m not sure there’s a song that earned James King that title more than this one does. Here’s your reminder to go and visit the elderly in your life, wherever they may be.
“The Randall Knife” – Guy Clark
I couldn’t finish this playlist without including Guy Clark’s magnum opus. There’s a lot I could say about this song, but none of it as well as him.
“Autumn Leaves Don’t Fall” – Thomas Cassell
And if you’ve made it all the way to the end, I’ll reward you with a little bit of self-promotion. Jon Weisberger and I wrote this song after thinking about how the more people we lose, the quicker we seem to lose them. Time is exponential.
Most listeners would probably attribute the incredibly unique musical approach of guitarist Beppe Gambetta to his country of origin. Being a native of Genoa, Italy, he certainly brings a global and European folk flair to his bluegrass and old-time inflected six-string compositions. But it would be shortsighted to simply credit that truly original voice to mere geography.
Gambetta is an instrumentalist who always works with intention. Developed over a lifetime of playing and cultural cross pollination, his style exists in the fertile ground somewhere between a triangulation of Norman Blake, Doc Watson, and Django Reinhardt. He’s learned from, recorded, collaborated, and performed with so many of “greats” such as these across several generations of American roots music virtuosos. Gambetta is a bluegrasser through and through, but he’s also so much more.
His latest album, Terra Madre (released in April 2024), is a lovely continuation of his lengthy and harlequin catalog of recordings. It’s bilingual, cinematic, and thoughtful, while also impassioned and brash. But he’s never a one-note musician, so the collection is artfully subtle at the same time. Gambetta doesn’t just know this intersection – aggressive and gentle, bold and subdued – it’s as if he lives there. It’s his address.
Perhaps most of all, Gambetta is a perfect representation of how an individual can bring himself into a generational folkway and established aural tradition such as American roots music, while simultaneously preserving his selfhood and his singular point of view. Our email interview, like the new record, is a perfect representation of Gambetta’s melting pot style – and the way he uses the entire earth, terra madre, as his medium.
The title track of Terra Madre is cinematic and vibey, with a bit of funk and a dash of charming silliness. I love that it starts with the sound of footsteps, grounding the listener on terra madre herself. Can you talk a bit about the song, its title, and how being embodied on earth, on this rock hurtling through space, inspires your music and songwriting?
The song “Terra Madre” is the most dramatic of the album: the footsteps are from a couple of escaping refugees, the song is about their dreams. They meet with friends and jump the border wall in the dark of the night with fear, pain and hope. We don’t know the exact story, the place where it happens is also unknown in order to represent a ubiquitous pain that can be found all over the world.
It was hard to express these extremely dramatic sentiments only with acoustic instruments, but the use of the flatpicking style with strong bass lines and heavy strums turned out to be a good tool. I used a regular guitar but also a low bouzouki guitar and few slide guitars “prepared” with special strings and tunings. As you noticed, I added the sound of the escaping steps in order to ground the listener to the earth and with drummer Joe Bonadio we decided not to use the snare drum in order to create a more “suspended” atmosphere only with toms and cymbals.
How much of the earth’s current worries are in this album? How much did the planet’s current state of being inform the song itself?
The album’s general concept is related to the cry of pain that rises from our Earth and to the right of musicians to dream about a better world in moments of darkness. In the different songs there are dreams for a better life, for peace, repentance, friendship through music, adventure, forgiveness, survival of minority cultures, redemption, dreams to win, rage, envy, hate, and more.
In a period where leaders and politicians in charge are not able to resolve conflicts and crises there is a need for every other category to give a positive contribution. Probably scientists, philosophers, historians, theologists will give important contributions, but also artists can do their part.
I’m sure that even in modern times there is still a strong power that comes from folk songs and I decided to write my songs in different languages. For different reasons the album is totally self-produced and if you self-produce you need to put more love, passion, time, and money using all your resources.
“Sit and Pick with You” is certainly the stand out track on the album. Can you talk a bit about that song, its meaning, and how important the community aspect of this music is? Because, truly none of us would exist as pickers in bluegrass and string band music without folks – whether friends or peers or heroes or legends – to sit and pick with.
The inspiration for the song came to me during a California tour. I wrote it in order to celebrate some musical encounters with legendary fathers of the music – David Grisman, Dan Crary, Peter Rowan – dear friends who, at the end of their careers, continue to hold high the torch of beauty. I wrote the song with the sounds of the 1930s in mind, with a guitar riff inspired by “The Wildwood Flower” or “Jimmy Brown the Newsboy,” because I believe it is a timeless sound that can still speak to people’s hearts and move them.
I decided to sing the song as a duo, like an old brother duet. I first asked Norman Blake by sending him a handwritten letter in pencil, as we used to do in our correspondence in the 1980s. The reply was really kind, also handwritten by Nancy and signed by Norman, who thanked me for the thought and encouraged me in the project, but at that time Norman felt that his voice was not at the right level to appear on an album.
Luckily, my friend Tim O’Brien was available to sing it and did it with a perfect vintage-style rendition. Then David Grisman added his unmistakable signature [sound] on mandolin. Dan Crary played guitar in harmony, taking advantage of the depth of his “long neck” guitar tuned down a tone. The final touch to the quartet’s sound came from bassist Travis Book.
The positive meaning of the song is felt by many fans who identify with the sentiments it expresses: The joy of getting together and the friendship that comes from the beauty of music. Many began to incorporate it into their jam sessions with friends, as it happened at the Walnut Valley Festival campground in Winfield, Kansas, a gathering place for music lovers par excellence. I received many requests for the guitar part and finally now I distribute the tablature at all my concerts. For sure, this is the standout track of the album and it got a very special recognition and attention. It was number one in the Folk DJ chart in June and July and still now it is present in the top positions.
Your approach to the guitar – and really, to music and composition and picking in general – is totally unique. You have a voice all your own on the instrument. I think a lot of listeners on this side of the Atlantic would attribute that to your being Italian, but I think that’s a bit shortsighted and simplistic. How have you cultivated your particular style and how do you keep your music and creativity fresh and innovative, to yourself and to your listeners?
I wanted to develop my own particular voice, starting from the style of the American fathers and filtering in the influences gained during my tireless journey on the road that has given me particularly formative encounters, not only in Italy but in the whole world. It took time and attention, choosing and adding to my style drops of beauty from different sources, trying to limit the obvious “Tony Rice mania” and using ideas also from Dan, Norman, Clarence and much more.
For sure, all my studies about old Italian music and generally my natural Italian aesthetic sense and passion for melody has influenced my style. The work that I did in researching and studying the “Italian string virtuosi” and performing the albums Serenata and Traversata (produced with David Grisman) left an important mark in my playing.
Studies and stylistic research in flatpicking can go in different and almost opposite directions. On the one hand, the virtuosity of breathtaking phrasing combined with speed and improvisation – the shiver in your spine that you start to feel when you listen for the first time to “Black Mountain Rag.” On the other hand, the search for expressive techniques and melodies that touch the listener’s soul – the passion and tenderness of “Church Street Blues” in Tony Rice’s version is the perfect eye-opener to the expressive potential of flatpicking beyond mere circus performance.
This second aspect, probably underestimated in the current scene, is the one that fascinated me the most. I worked a lot to learn to play slow (using tremolos, partial strummings, crosspicking, and “separate crosspicking” on two, four, five, six strings, string jumps, crosspicking to obtain grace notes, etc.).
Rhythmic tension and speed, however, continue to fascinate me; it was fun to develop the licks of my tune “Chipmunk,” an instrumental that describes the run of New Jersey’s fastest pet on the front porch of our Stockton home, using down-down-up on two strings at 162 beats.
The secret of the freshness of my style stays in continuing to be excited by both creating something new and playing something old, and in sharing this happiness every day with my wife Federica! Often before taking the stage I revive the memory of those who helped me and believed in my art (Mama Gambetta first of all) and this gives me a strong power. Even if I am close to my seventieth birthday I continue to be ready and happy to do my job.
I also think your shows are so stunning and one-of-a-kind, too. You do so much with just a guitar, your voice, and your stories. How do you keep your show engaging and interesting, when you have so few variables or so few inputs? Do you find such a stark set up to be limiting or empowering or…
Standing in front of an audience with one guitar, a voice, and a pick is certainly a big challenge. That is why I have been working over the years to create a show that I can take to audiences around the world and to distant places. I try to speak to people’s hearts and maintain my authenticity, deciding to minimize the use of excessive volume, technology, and sound effects, avoiding wiggles and winks, and simply presenting myself as I am, as if I were playing acoustically in a living room.
An artist who influenced me in this direction was John Hartford, for whom I opened a concert in Ohio many years ago and I was inspired by his charisma in communicating alone with the audience. Over the years I have studied singing, learned how to narrate and create special atmospheres with the use of open tunings and different languages, and also to joke with the audience with “Old World” irony. Not to mention “Gino,” the name I gave to my pedal loop, which I always use sparingly and treat as an old cousin who travels with me and accompanies me with his guitar.
In music, limitations are often a source of creativity; Django Reinhardt invented amazing phrases using only two fingers of the left hand, blues harmonica players got missing notes by inventing bending, and so on. In flatpicking, the strong limitation is the inability to play two distant strings at the same time as you would do easily with fingers. The effort to overcome this limitation has always forced me to invent creative solutions.
Can you tell us the story or stories behind “Saint James Hospital”?
In 2023, on the centenary of Doc Watson’s birth, in addition to visiting his grave and playing a tune for him, I decided to rearrange some of the master’s songs so that I could celebrate him on many occasions, because Doc was my most important influence and changed my artistic life.
Doc was a giant because he invented a fresh repertoire for the acoustic guitar and developed a unique and engaging way of building a show. Among the various songs of his repertoire, “Saint James Hospital” represents his extraordinary ability to discover and rearrange true gems of beauty. “Saint James Hospital” comes from ethnomusicologist Alan Lomax’s earliest field recordings, when he was first allowed to record the prisoners in a Huntsville, Texas, jail in 1933. Among the various prisoners was James Baker, known as “Iron Head,” and from this seemingly dangerous character came a song with a refined and touching melody that spoke of repentance, redemption, and a dream of a better end of life.
For me it was a challenge to create a new arrangement after Doc Watson’s and Tony Rice’s masterpieces. I decided to invent a new interlude using many guitars in different tunings and I completed the arrangement on the high register with the arpeggio of a Cuban tres. The result was well-rewarded because also “Saint James Hospital” appeared for many months on the Folk DJ charts.
What’s next for Beppe Gambetta? What should folks be watching out for?
One of the reasons I continue to be active and innovative with so many projects is because I am lucky enough not to have a retirement plan! It’s a joke that tells the truth: The anxiety of having to keep working for a long time feeds my creativity and helps my determination to invent new music, new productions, new events and embark on new journeys.
Future projects fortunately are many, first of all the upcoming tours in America and Europe in support of Terra Madre.
Besides touring, an event I’m very excited about will happen on February 15, 2025 in Mendocino, California. It will be a reunion concert with Dan Crary, who just turned 85. We will celebrate his legacy and more than 30 years of touring as a duo. On May 15-16-17, 2025 there will be the 25th edition of my Acoustic Nights, a thematic concert series with international artists on the stage of the Teatro Nazionale in Genoa, Italy, an event that we conceived with [my wife] Federica and made grow over the years. The edition number 25 promises to be a beautiful big party with a large audience of friends who will come from far away to celebrate.
Also, in Italy, I produced two different plays with actors and script, one related to my autobiographical book, Declarations of Love, and the other related to songs about legendary bandits.
Among the American projects I would like to mention, the trio show about Italian virtuosi of the early 20th century with Mike Guggino and Barrett Smith (members of Steep Canyon Rangers). It is a “side” project that is growing over the years and for the first time we will take it to a festival, Wintergrass, in 2025.
With the Folk Project in Morristown, New Jersey, we started an annual event, the New Jersey Guitar Summit, an educational full-immersion event with a final concert (held in October). And also in New Jersey on January 11 and 12 we will have my “home concerts” with guest Bruce Molsky at the Prallsville Mills in Stockton, New Jersey.
If there were any picker, living or passed, that you could sit and pick with today, who would it be and why?
In this respect I am very fulfilled, because one of the greatest joys of my artistic life is that at different times I was able to play “Salt Creek” with Doc Watson, Norman Blake, Dan Crary, and Tony Rice, four fathers of the music I love.
Of course, if I had the time machine, I would also choose to play “Salt Creek” with another great father of flatpicking, Clarence White, who I never met because he died young in a car accident. Using the same time machine I would certainly travel to Paris to play with Django Reinhardt, then I would move to Argentina to make music with the tanguero Roberto Grela. In Portugal it would be wonderful to meet the Portuguese guitar passion of Carlos Peredes, while in Italy I would certainly love to meet the early 20th century virtuoso Pasquale Taraffo, the inspiration for so much of my research.
The most enjoyable jam session of the last few years was with guitarist Cameron Knowler, a young picker who amazed me by cultivating and carrying forward into modern times the sounds of Riley Puckett and Norman Blake, a sign that among the new generations there is a refined aesthetic sense that goes beyond fashions and gives us hope for the continuation of the forgotten beauties of the past.
Photo Credit: Giovanna Cavallo
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